How to creep out the entire internet, lovelorn banker edition
Try dressing as a nun. Then maybe he'll go away.
Dating can be tough. It can be especially tough if your personality is a mixture of petulance and insecurity. And even tougher if you think you can argue someone who’s not interested in you into a second date with an angry, accusatory, sometimes hilarious, sometimes deeply unsettling 1600-word email. And no, I’m not speaking hypothetically here.
The email in question, written by a young investment banker named Mike to an unfortunate woman named Lauren after one less-than-great date, was posted on Reddit a couple of days ago, and has already gotten a lot of internetty attention, but some of you may not have seen it, so I thought I’d give it a little fisking anyway. Settle in; it’s going to be a long and bumpy ride. (Note: What follows below is most of the email; I’ve cut out a few passages here and there.)
Hi Lauren,
I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed that I haven’t gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.
Well, we’re off to a not-so-good start. Perhaps she is, as they say, just not that into you?
FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can’t see someone’s body language or tone of voice in an email. I’m not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I’m honest and direct by nature, and I’m going to be that way in this email.
Gosh, I wonder why Lauren didn’t get back to him.
By the way, I did a google search, so that’s how I came across your email.
Google-stalking – always a nice touch. There’s no better way to charm a nice lady than by tracking down her personal information online.
I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.) I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.
Uh, what? She’s ignoring you, dude. She doesn’t want to go out with you. Seems to me she’s sending you a pretty unmixed message here.
Should she have responded to your voicemail and/or texts? In an ideal world, perhaps, but she may have sensed that you’d react precisely how you’re reacting now, and didn’t want to have anything more to do with your creepy, entitled bullshit.
And now Mike the banker makes his, er, “case” for why she should go on a second date with him:
Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:
-You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I’ve never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn’t look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.
You were flirting!! Hair-twirling = sex! If you don’t realize it you can google search it!!!
-We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per-minute basis, I’ve never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.
Eye contact is an Indicator of Interest. IOI! IOI! If you didn’t want to bear my children why did you look at me, with your eyes????
-You said, “It was nice to meet you.” at the end of our date. A woman could say this statement as a way to show that she isn’t interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said–that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.
Well, not really. This is what people say to be polite at the end of a disappointing date, when they don’t want to see you again. If she wanted to see you again, she would have said something about making plans for a second date.
-We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement.
We had a conversation! You did not flee in horror! Therefore you must have my babies!!!
In my opinion, leading someone on (i.e., giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It’s bad to do that.
And sending someone who clearly wants nothing to do with you a long, creepy, accusatory tirade is polite?
Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don’t go out again after a first date. However, in our case, I’m curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship.
Dude, you do understand that she has to actually like you too in order for there to be a relationship?
I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.
You cannot argue someone into a second date! That’s not how it works.
Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don’t, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you.
Gain utility? Really? DATING IS NOT MICROECONOMICS!
In addition, even if you don’t want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn’t want to go again. Normally, I wouldn’t ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.
Well, banker dude. You’re getting some feedback now. All over the internet.
If you don’t want to go again, then apparently you didn’t think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.
So your argument is that she should go out with you, even though she doesn’t want to go out with you, because life isn’t perfect and you’re probably the best she really deserves?
Way to sell yourself, dude.
If you’re not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn’t given those mixed signals. I feel led on.
Well, she’s not really responsible for you thinking that every woman who twirls her hair in your presence wants to have your babies.
We have a number of things in common.
Oh dear, sounds like we’ve got another “logical” argument coming up here.
I’ll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I’m in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn’t be seriously involved with a woman if she didn’t like classical music. You said that you’re planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future. As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often. You’re very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn’t take any significant additional time on your part.
Um, what?
I have no clever remark to make here, other than that Lauren is probably going to have to avoid going to the Philharmonic ever again, on the off chance she might run into banker Mike.
According to the internet, you’re 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we’re a good match in terms of age.
YOU ARE RIGHT AGE. INTERNET SAYS SO. THEREFORE YOU MUST DATE ME.
I could name more things that we have in common, but I’ll stop here. I don’t understand why you apparently don’t want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common.
Also, you both require oxygen to live. Lauren, can’t you see that you and banker Mike are soulmates?
I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn’t find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date. You already knew what I looked like before our date.
Banker Mike: You said you wanted feedback. Here is some feedback. She was apparently not horrified by your physical appearance. It may be your horrible personality that needs some work.
Perhaps, you’re unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a “real” job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I’ve made my parents several millions of dollars. That’s real money. That’s not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it’s a real job. Donald Trump’s children work for his company. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so. George Soros’s sons help manage their family investments. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so.
You’re fighting a losing battle here, dude. Just as you cannot argue someone into liking you, you cannot argue someone into being impressed that you manage your parents’ money.
In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer.
And I’m the Queen of Denmark.
That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren’t like that. I’ve never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you.
Oy. As if this email wasn’t stalkerish enough already.
I’ve gone out with a lot of women in my life. (FYI, I’m not a serial dater. Sometimes, I’ve only gone out with a woman for one date.)
This last bit I have no trouble believing.
I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens.
I suspect that Lauren has already played out various scenarios in her head already, and that none of them end well.
Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven’t returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I’m open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too.
So now you’re being noble and “open minded” for trying to pressure a woman who wants nothing to do with you into a second date?
If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life.
Now you’re just making my skin crawl.
I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.
Here’s a solution, dude: How about she never goes on another date with you, ever. Then you won’t ever have to worry about her being late ever again.
If you’re concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don’t want to go with me again, well, my feeling are already hurt. I’m sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.
I hope you find the feedback that the internet has now provided you to be helpful.
If you don’t want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals).
Now we’re back on this again.
In my opinion, you shouldn’t act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It’s bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you’re not interested in going out with me again.
Damn you, foul strumpet, and your devious hair-playing ways! Google it! GOOGLE IT!!!
I would like to talk to you on the phone.
I think you’ve pretty much guaranteed that this will never, ever happen.
Even if you don’t want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me, but my feelings are already hurt. Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would better than no response at all, but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.
Not much to misinterpret here, Mike. You’ve made it absolutely crystal clear that you’re an undateable creep.
Let me be serious for a moment. Forget about Lauren. Hell, forget about women in general for a while, and work on yourself. Get some therapy; you can afford it. Work through your bitterness, your petulance, your highly unattractive mixture of entitlement and insecurity. Stop being a “Nice Guy” and learn to be genuinely nice.
And don’t ever, ever, ever write another email like this one.
Posted on December 8, 2011, in creepy, evil women, men who should not ever be with women ever, nice guys, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,020 Comments.
Leni: I see a lot of people, especially online, who use ‘I’m an aspie’ as shorthand for ‘I’m an asshole’. Didn’t mean to offend, and terribly sorry if I did.
I asked her out BECAUSE she doesn’t move in my social circle, but from what little interaction we had she seemed nice and was attractive. Really, that’s it.
Hey, MRAL, I’m glad that woman turned you down. She made the right fucking decision. Until you get your shit together, I think you should stay as far away from women, or anyone really, as possible.
The fact that you started swearing in all caps because a blog moderated your comment shows me you’re not mature enough to handle the emotionally complex world of human interaction.
Also, you’re a creep.
I know I said this in my rant but I can’t get over how fucking funny it is that MRAL is worried that she’s talking shit behind his back while meanwhile he’s talking about how she’s an entitled bitch Nazi.
Whatever she’s saying, MRAL (and I would put money on “nothing because she actually feels kinda bad,” unless you gave her this act in person), she’s probably not calling you a fucking Nazi.
I’ve tried to have compassion for you in the past but good Lord you sure as fuck don’t extend that to anyone else.
Hey… I was talking about women as a collective, not her specifically.
Also, I said Nazi-LIKE, not Nazi. It’s just the best comparison I could think of.
And Spear, well, all I can say is that it’s good that you’re not the boss of me.
Also, ‘nother note to MRAL (wow he kinda set me off): Imagine you do get a girlfriend.
Imagine one day you have a fight. Maybe because she found your Manboobz postings! Maybe some inconsequential thing like you can’t pick a movie to go see. Maybe a big thing like she’s not happy in the relationship and she wants to leave.
It causes pain in you. Pain bigger than a math test, bigger than a rejection from a stranger, bigger than being talked to all mean on a message board. You’re in pain and she’s still not giving you what you want. In fact she’s being downright angry at you.
How do you treat her?
Until you can answer this question with something that isn’t a physical threat or all-caps swear words, maybe it’s best you don’t have a girlfriend. It’s keeping you out of jail.
MRAL: You once flew into a rage because a woman in an elevator wasn’t deferential enough to your tastes. You’l forgive me, I’m not sure, if I have trouble believing that someone with that history (and a history of calling women really, really horrible things online) is ‘gentle.’ Or rather, I’m sure you think you’re being gentle, but an attitude like yours is bound to leak out. Why don’t you wait on the whole ‘asking someone out’ thing until you’ve mastered ‘not calling the people you want to ask out filthy, degrading names,’ eh?
Let’s not talk about me anymore. I’m doing fine. I just had a sort of negative experience. No big deal.
I was really trying to speak to society, anyway, because even if this particular girl doesn’t talk crap behind my back, based on collectivity, I have to assume she does (Schrodinger’s Creep Shamer, I suppose, haha). And frankly I don’t see the big deal about Mike’s email. It’s really just more weird and awkward (“cr**py”, if you must) than hostile or entitled or whatever. It’s obviously autistic. I don’t think he’s an asshole.
MRAL: If you’re comparing women not going out with you to Nazis, you need a trip to the Total Perspective Vortex. The world does not revolve around you, and no one owes you anything, especially sex.
Ooooooooooh.
Well that’s alright then.
We take that shit personal. You should know that for if you ever have a girlfriend. Some guys try to pull the “women are all bitch gash Nazis… I didn’t mean you, honey!” and that shit doesn’t fly.
We know that exception only lasts as long as we’re in your good graces, and with amazing Woman Precognition we can see the day we become a bitch gash Nazi in your eyes. We try not to wait around for it.
Hahaha, you’re asshole-like.
I chuckled at the aryan men bit. Most men in the world aren’t aryan.
Yeah. Women having preferences about dating is very similar to genocide. Very similar.
You know what, you’re a young guy. You should consider updating your “All women are entitled bitches who only date Brad Pitt look-alikes” bit. Try Michael Fassbender… or Idris Elba. Or Ryan Gosling. Or Kal Penn.
And, before you say anything, MRAL, MrB is about as unlike the ‘Aryan Superman’ you seem to think all women want as it’s possible to be. He’s a sweet, funny, geeky guy who treats me like a human being instead of a collection of parts. He makes horrible puns and laughs when I throw our stuffed ‘pun apple’ at him. He runs an awesome superhero RPG. He’s a good, kind, decent human being. You haven’t even managed to master the last two words of the sentence.
Um, HELLO? I didn’t call her a gash, duh.
congratulations?
I am by nature a gentle person, so I never elevate. For example, I would probably treat her with all caps swear words, if she was doing the same.What’s the big deal? People yell. I am not violent so I would not engage physically no matter what.
“or Idris Elba … Or Kal Penn.”
*drooling*
I’m not entitled, though. Just appreciative.
Speaking of Nazis, I shudder to think what MRAL thought of the Captain America movie.
I asked her out BECAUSE she doesn’t move in my social circle, but from what little interaction we had she seemed nice and was attractive. Really, that’s it.
Did you two have an especially good conversation about a shared interest? What made her seem “nice”? I mean, other than being someone that you don’t know and don’t socialize with, who you find attractive, what made you ask her out?
I know, I don’t particularly care for being asked out by strangers; maybe that was the problem.
Given your obvious contempt of the orifice that you want to put your dick in, you probably don’t have to say it out loud.
You feel me? I’m not sure where this “Aryan ideal” thing, MRAL is whining about comes from.
I can’t imagine why she turned MRAL down. He has such a sparkling, amicable personality.
Cassandra, you summoned him. I’m holding you responsible.
Re. ‘splaining vs. mansplaining (hoping I’m not falling into either): anyone can be a condescending asshole. Mansplainers are just a specific category of condescending asshole. Expanding “mansplaining” until it encompasses all condescending assholes just seems to dilute it.
Re. MRAL: Jesus Christ, what in the hell is wrong with you?
I’m with Spearhafoc. That woman today dodged a bullet when she turned you down. And it’s going to keep happening as long as you’re leaking hatred out your pores while you pretend to be nice.
Crumbelievable, this is him on good behavior. You should see him when he actually gets upset.
Actually, you probably will. But will it be fake Enraged Keyboard Mashing or fantasies of graphic violence? We’ll see.
“I mean I’m sure she would have said yes if I was a Pittclone, but you know, I can’t control her physical preferences, even if they are ridiculous.”
OK, let’s say that she said no because she has preferences and you don’t fit them. Why does that make her preferences ridiculous? Why aren’t women allowed to decide who they fuck based on whether or not they find the person sexually attractive?
Until you get past this sense of RAGE, FUCK SHIT GASHES, ENTITLED BITCHES, RAGE about the fact that women, like men, make choices about who they’re going to date and have sex with, you will always be an unhappy person, and it will be your own fault.
And it’s going to keep happening as long as you’re leaking hatred out your pores while you pretend to be nice.
Better that then the guys who’ve learned to mask their hatred. Hatred leaks serve as a warning.
You people are missing the fact that I don’t care. Getting turned down is no big deal. I don’t give a shit, really. I mean I was disappointed, but whatever. That’s not what I want to talk about. I’ just using it as a convenient example to describe WHY we have emails like this one. It’s not men’s problem, it’s women’s. IMO.
First crush I ever had was on Ryan Gosling. I was 10, he was 17 and on every Canadian kids television show in existence… He still turns me on. A lot.
My boyfriend, however, does not look like Ryan Gosling.
Also, I’m not autistic. This is not an issue that affects me, because I feel like I read social situations well (sometimes I even overanalyze them, which is why I’m sensitive to slights. I’m working on it, but that’s not an uncommon problem). However, as someone who is empathetic, I can empathize with this guy instead of making fun of him. Because again, I don’t see the big damn deal. It’s just cringe worthy.
“BULL. SHIT. We fuck plenty of men. But I am so fucking sorry we have not coordinated our efforts to fuck all the men. WHAT CAN I SAY I GOT SORE.”
I’M SORRY, BUT THERE IS JUST NOT ENOUGH LUBE. IF WE ARE TO FUCK ALL OF THE MEN THEN WALGREENS WILL HAVE TO SET UP KIOSKS IN OUR BEDROOMS, AND THAT JUST SEEMS KIND OF AWKWARD.
I chuckled at the aryan men bit. Most men in the world aren’t aryan.
MRAL’s view of the world is women are only having sex with all the men who are Brad Pitt, except for Brad Pitt, because he’s too short. Given that, “no black/Asian/Jewish/Latino/etc. men get laid EVER” is barely even crazy by MRAL standards.
Yeah, and I have… we’ll call it a crush, on Idris Elba. A lot. And I even met him a few times and somehow managed not to cause an incident that would’ve probably made the news all over the East Coast.
But my boyfriend does not look like Idris Elba. He’s still practically perfect in every way.
Hey, here are just some of the men I’ve dated over the years! (names are fake)
Kevin: Skinny, super nerdy, Native American, broke his glasses and held them back together with tape for several months. At the time I thought he was just an oblivious nerd but it turned out he didn’t have the money to get new frames. Did not openly hate me.
Alan: Chubby, very short, cut his own hair with kind of unfortunate results, Native American, worked as a business software tester. We bonded over both liking “Intervention” and “COPS” a little too much. Did not openly hate me.
Benny: Extremely overweight, balding at about 19, Israeli, kind of a jerk to be honest but I gave him a chance anyway (later turned into a huge jerk but that’s another story), mega nerdy like everyone I’ve dated. Despite some crappy (and later assaultive) behavior, did not openly hate me.
Tommy: Short, chubby, do I even need to say nerdy, Irish, chronically between jobs but always schmoozing his way into a new one. We bonded over both being huge perverts. We’re still good friends. Did not openly hate me.
DO YOU SEE A PATTERN HERE?
There is one, and “Aryan Supermen” is not it.
“And even if I did, which I don’t, I wouldn’t say that to women who I want to put my dick in.”
The fact that you don’t think that they’ll figure out that you feel that way without you saying it remains endlessly amusing.
You are a creep, MRAL. You and the asshat who wrote this letter are creeps. You know why? because you don’t know how to take no for an answer, and expect women to bend over backwards for you, lest you start imaging beating them up because they didn’t say hello properly. Yea I do remember that. Entitled shits.
This is exactly why I don’t date. And you know if she did tell him straight out that she didn’t want to date him again, he’d just write an email about what a horrible bitch she is for rejecting him.
I had something similar happen to me before. A guy kept asking me out and I told him numerous times I wasn’t interested for a variety of reasons (he lived too far for one and I don’t want a long distance relationship) he wouldn’t drop it though and finally asked that I tell him straight up if he had a chance or not. I figured I would be direct, and since men always say they like directness, I told him as politely as I could that no he did not. He fucking got mad at me for DOING WHAT HE ASKED. Then he told me how I should basically kiss a guy’s ass when turning him down. WTF? no one ever awarded me that courtesy. I wasn’t rude. I would never dream of saying “no you’re ugly” or anything horrid like that. But even when you are polite, it’s still not good enough for these jerks that just refuse to take no for an answer.
MRAL, you asked someone out and she turned you down. That feels bad, I know. How do I know? Because it has happened to me and probably every other poster on this site. It is painful and shitty and probably not the last time you’ll go through it, but at least you’re not alone. Next time it’ll be easier and eventually someone will say yes.
…oh, I see you went on an “ALPHA FUCK BITCHES” rant? Well, never mind. I concur, girl dodged a bullet.
Anyway, the OP reminds me of the elaborate arguments I used to make to my parents as to why I should be allowed to do something or other, like stay up late to watch “Designing Women” or go to a sleepover on a school night. No matter how tight my logic was it rarely worked for some reason. Also I was 9.
Now I want a cage fight between MRAL, who thinks women only want men from superior races, and DKM, who thinks women only should want men from superior races.
I don’t know how to take no for an answer? Well, I think this girl might disagree with you there, you slanderous dick.
Holly:
You are awesome.
Dumbfuck:
And I bet your dream girl is someone with a personality disorder that google stalks you and sends creepy emails demanding to date you? Cause that’s attractive? You arrogant, entitled, lazy, fucking asshole who is too prim and too fucking prim and princess to associate with women who are not the Nazi ideal.
How dare you.
Oh and just a hint fellas and ladies, don’t overanalyze. I used to do this all the time in college (he’s pulling up his socks! he DOES like me!) ya, that was actually a “sign” in an article I read. It doesn’t mean much. If they aren’t making an effort to contact you, or be around you, they aren’t interested.
Also I play with my hair a lot. Anyplace and anytime. It’s a stupid habit and probably makes me look like a bimbo, but I never only did it in front of guys I liked.
thanks cassandra. i was really hoping to choke on my beer tonight.
Sorry, Katz. I forgot that he was like Bloody Mary.
BTW, MRAL, do you have any physical preferences in terms of who you want to fuck? You mentioned that you asked this girl out partly because you found her physically attractive. If you’re allowed to have preferences, why isn’t she?
I don’t really think women only go for Pitt. If I did, I wouldn’t make an effort, but I did, amirite? It’s just hyperbole I use when in a bad mood, because it does seem that overall, women have higher standards physically than men. Also, I am not in a bad mood because I got turned down, it’s for other reasons.
I guess I’ll give MRAL some very small props for not threatening violence at any point despite being rejected.
It’s sort of a tough thing, because “not violent” really isn’t something to congratulate someone on, but for him it is growth. Being only bitter and furious, but not bitter, furious, and violent is honestly a step up.
Maybe in a few years he’ll be just bitter, and by the time he’s an adult, hey, who knows. People have grown out of worse things.
He sure as hell isn’t growing out of it too damn fast, though. And there’s only so much pity I can feel for someone who expresses absolutely no empathy or generosity for anyone else. Ugh.
He’s more like Candleja
Former boyfriends, with letters of the alphabet rather than fake names because I’m lazy.
S. Tall, skinny, rocker dude with long hair. White American, southern boy. Kind of dumb, but a nice body. Dark hair, dark eyes.
I. Tall, skinny alterna dude pretty boy with long hair. English, white, child of an academic, very smart. Introduced me to Terry Pratchett books. Dark hair, dark eyes.
C. Average height, skinny, pretty boy with long dark hair. Very smart.
M. Tall, thin but kind of buffed, long dark hair. Very pretty, not too smart. Didn’t last long.
A. Tall, skinny, pretty English boy with long dark hair and black eyes. Very smart, very sweet, was nuts about him. Broke up over stupid misunderstanding.
A2. Tall, skinny, blond with blue eyes. Very smart, but kind of psycho.
H. Average height, skinny, pretty boy with long hair, very goth, Japanese. Very smart, art student, very sweet.
P – Slightly shorter than average, long hair, very pretty. Asian American. Very smart, very sweet.
Do you notice some patterns here? Other than that they tend to be tall they don’t seem support your “all women want to fuck the Hitler Youth” hypothesis.
I know this will sound like an alien language to MRAL, but sometimes, when someone turns you down, they’re doing it to be kind.
Earlier this week, I told a guy I’ve been seeing that I don’t want to keep dating him. We’d only been on a couple of dates, but we’d been friends for almost a year before either of us worked up the courage to ask the other out (we’re both hopelessly socially awkward), so there was a whole friendship at stake.
He is a genuinely awesome guy. I like him a lot, and we get on really well. And, even though he looks nothing like Brad Pitt (who I really don’t find very attractive at all), I was very attracted to him.
But when I started dating him I realised that, actually, we don’t have a lot in common. We have one big area of interest that we both know a lot about, and that’s what’s been sustaining friendly conversation for the last year, but there’s nothing to build a relationship on. We want completely different things out of life. He tries to act like he’s interested in what I do, and vice versa, but it is clearly an act. In a year’s time, we probably won’t even live in the same country. It’s going nowhere.
Now, it’s not that I think it has to be True Love on Date One. But this really isn’t going to work out. I confided to a couple of close friends about how I was feeling, and some of them advised me to keep seeing him until I was certain. But one of them, who knows him and knows how much I like him, suggested I break things off as soon as possible. Which I did.
The thing is, as much as being rejected hurts, being dumped hurts a lot more. I genuinely like this guy; I don’t want to marry him, but I don’t want him to suffer. I know for a fact that I can’t be in a relationship with him, so I broke things off quickly, so that he didn’t get too emotionally invested. I felt like a horrible person, but I was doing it to be kind.
I haven’t said a single bad thing about him since then. I’ve seen him, we hugged, I’m lending him my Mad Men DVDs, and everything is fine. I’m sure there are some hurt feelings, but there’s no heartbreak, and I’m glad of that. He is a genuinely lovely person and plenty of other girls will want to date him, but I’m not one of them, and it’s not because I think he’s a “creep”.
Also, damn, CassandraSays, your exes sound hot!
and when women do fuck a lot of men, doing their “part” to help spread those men’s genes and not committing “genocide” according to that other troll, they are called sluts. MISOGYNIST LOGICS!!!!1
And MRAL, you are not a special snowflake. So you were nervous when you asked her out? so what? you think you’re the only one who gets nervous and sweaty when asking someone out? I am so sick of “nice guys” always using the anxiety card as if it only applies to them. When I was in college I would actually shake and stutter around the guys I liked. That’s how bad my social anxiety was.
Other than that they tend to be tall they don’t seem support your “all women want to fuck the Hitler Youth” hypothesis.
All tall people are Nazis.
And I have just prevented myself from ever running for public office.
Have you been checked for social anxiety, MRAL? I mean, it’s totally normal to be nervous about asking someone out, but it sounds like it’s a REALLY big deal for you, and you have all these paranoid worries about what she’s saying about you, and I cannot even tell you how much medication can help. Maybe worth checking out?
Actually, I forgot him but there was one who was both really tall and really blonde! Except that his natural hair color was black, which I could tell from the roots, and the whole time we were dating I kept hoping he’d dye it back.
He did not look like Brad Pitt.
MARL, she just knows you were nervous is all. Also, it sounds like you are not her cup of tea. She has no idea what a horrifyingly evil, abuser you would be in a relationship. She will never mention you ever to anyone, most likely.
I would not give you a dog I did not like, and I am glad she said no, for her continued safety.
That’s kind of your main problem. Women are not a collective. There is no Hive-Vagina.
The first rule of the Hive Vagina is that we do not mention the Hive Vagina.
And we definitely don’t let you in if you’ve ever called it a “gash”.
I have called some guys who have hit on me and who I turned down creepy. Very, very few of them. I can remember specifically each and every one.
I’ve experienced some really smooth pickup attempts, and some incredibly awkward ones – to whom I relate, because I suck at that kind of stuff so hard. I’ve heard really corny lines intended for a laugh, and really corny lines intended seriously. I’ve been approached in bars by strangers, school hallways by friends, the fantasy isle of Chapters after striking up a conversation about Juliet Marilier. None of these many differences, not one, has led me to think a guy was creepy.
Who was creepy? The guy who, when I said thanks but I was seeing someone, told me I was lying and demanded details about him. The guy – 40ish -who asked me – 16 – to take a picture of him, and when I said yes gave the camera to a passing couple and threw his arm around me so they could snap us, and later followed me to my bus stop to ask me to go back to China with him. Someone who wrote me a note on a dating site, and when I didn’t respond within a day wrote another note saying “come on, give me a chance,” and when that illicited no response within a few hours gave me a simple “you’re a huge bitch.”
I don’t care if I find someone really unattractive, or we’re totally incompatible personality-wise, or if it was clearly their first time and they’re not sure what they’re about. I would never consider them creepy just for asking. It’s the other stuff, the stuff that’s, y’know, creepy, that would make me think they were creepy.
Former partners!
J. Asian, creepy mofo, terrible in bed, really nothing good about him whatsoever. Skinny, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
R. Hispanic, sweet, comic-book fan, future engineer, very traditional ideas of gender. Really had nothing in common with him, but he’s a nice guy and I wish him well. Chubby, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
W. Jewish, one-night-stand who fell for me. Crazy, friendless, socially awkward, liked punk music. Chubby-to-fat, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
A. Black. Made his own Sith costume. Artist. Obsessed Star Wars and Batman fan. Nice dude. Skinny, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
C. White. Gamer and webcomics fan. Snarky, Neutral Evil asshole who prefers cuddling to sex and mockery to either. Opposed to leaving his room on general principles. Skinny, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
M. Mixed-race (Hispanic/white). Martial artist, gamer, fan of epic fantasy. Shy, socially awkward, highly intelligent, kind. Marine biologist. Chubby-muscular, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
L. Hispanic. Sex-positive feminist casual hookup. BBW, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
P. Jewish. Trekkie drug dealer, martial artist, Burner and flow artist with five learning disabilities and an economics degree with honors. Snarky asshole. Chubby-to-fat, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
N. White. Psychology major with a passion for statistics, Neil Gaiman and odd porn. Snarky, nice and prone to rambling about subjects he’s interested in regardless of whether anyone else is. Curvy, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
J. White. English major specializing in literature. Punk girl who knits Pokemon and loves mommyblogs, stuffed animals and broken birds of all sorts. Liberal, evangelical Christian, kinky slut. Too nice for her own good. Chubby-to-fat, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
S. White. Marine biologist. Femme, NPR fan and owner of the world’s most spectacular pair of tits. Curvy, with dark hair. Did not hate women.
G. White. Obsessed with making video games that aren’t first-person shooters. Vegetarian libertarian Kantian. Socially awkward bastard. So nice that he is probably secretly a supervillain; has become more snarky as we got to know him better. Skinny, with long dark hair. Did not hate women.
Also, MRAL, I’m really proud of you for asking a girl out. The first time is always the hardest. It’s like jumping in an ice-cold pool, you know? :)
Forgot that part. Please note that even the ex who I call kind of psycho did not hate women, he was just unbalanced in general.
Also, at least 3 of those guys are bi, so there goes Developers’ theory.
cassandra you need to stop doing this. beer goes down the esophagus, not the trachea.
Sorry, Sharculese. Be strong, like a true alpha, and endure!
I like that his defense was, “I meant it collectively, not about her!” which is to me, even worse than if he were talking about one person.
Yes, MRAL, 10 points for asking a girl out, and for behaving like a gentleman when she refused. You did well.
On the other hand, you instantly lose any of that previous credit for your hyper-enraged woman-hating ranting, which clearly demonstrated your gross arrogance and self-entitlement, and thus why you shouldn’t be seeking a relationship with anyone — you have serious issues with anger and unhealthy hatred towards women that you need to deal with and fix yourself, rather than exploding in a temper tantrum and blaming everyone else in the world for this.
There is nothing wrong with having a bad temper, provided it is under firm and rational regulation. But it may be that even when you think your demeanour is outwardly peaceable, you are imperceptibly giving off signals of anger, and your language subtly betraying misogyny; if so, even people who do not know you terribly well may pick up this. Why not try dialling back on the anger and the misogyny in all aspects of your life and seeing if that has an effect? The savagery of your writings on this blog doesn’t bode well for the relationships in your real-world life.
oh my gosh! Ozy and I had sex with the same guy (okay not really, just that sounds almost identical to number 10 who I did my best to teach to be better but…some people just do not learn.)
…Was his name Justin, and would he be in his late 30s now? If so I think we all slept with the same guy.
(I did not include him in my list because I don’t really count hooking up a handful of times as dating.)
I would ask everyone here to not use the C-word, please. It’s loaded with hate and shame.
I did sleep with a Justin, but he’s not that particular J and he’s 20 not late-thirties. J should be in his third year of college now; hopefully he’s matured.
Tell you what, MRAL. You stop calling women bitches and gashes and all the rest of it and then maybe we’ll consider not calling people creeps.