How to creep out the entire internet, lovelorn banker edition
Try dressing as a nun. Then maybe he'll go away.
Dating can be tough. It can be especially tough if your personality is a mixture of petulance and insecurity. And even tougher if you think you can argue someone who’s not interested in you into a second date with an angry, accusatory, sometimes hilarious, sometimes deeply unsettling 1600-word email. And no, I’m not speaking hypothetically here.
The email in question, written by a young investment banker named Mike to an unfortunate woman named Lauren after one less-than-great date, was posted on Reddit a couple of days ago, and has already gotten a lot of internetty attention, but some of you may not have seen it, so I thought I’d give it a little fisking anyway. Settle in; it’s going to be a long and bumpy ride. (Note: What follows below is most of the email; I’ve cut out a few passages here and there.)
Hi Lauren,
I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed that I haven’t gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.
Well, we’re off to a not-so-good start. Perhaps she is, as they say, just not that into you?
FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can’t see someone’s body language or tone of voice in an email. I’m not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I’m honest and direct by nature, and I’m going to be that way in this email.
Gosh, I wonder why Lauren didn’t get back to him.
By the way, I did a google search, so that’s how I came across your email.
Google-stalking – always a nice touch. There’s no better way to charm a nice lady than by tracking down her personal information online.
I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.) I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.
Uh, what? She’s ignoring you, dude. She doesn’t want to go out with you. Seems to me she’s sending you a pretty unmixed message here.
Should she have responded to your voicemail and/or texts? In an ideal world, perhaps, but she may have sensed that you’d react precisely how you’re reacting now, and didn’t want to have anything more to do with your creepy, entitled bullshit.
And now Mike the banker makes his, er, “case” for why she should go on a second date with him:
Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:
-You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I’ve never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn’t look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.
You were flirting!! Hair-twirling = sex! If you don’t realize it you can google search it!!!
-We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per-minute basis, I’ve never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.
Eye contact is an Indicator of Interest. IOI! IOI! If you didn’t want to bear my children why did you look at me, with your eyes????
-You said, “It was nice to meet you.” at the end of our date. A woman could say this statement as a way to show that she isn’t interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said–that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.
Well, not really. This is what people say to be polite at the end of a disappointing date, when they don’t want to see you again. If she wanted to see you again, she would have said something about making plans for a second date.
-We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement.
We had a conversation! You did not flee in horror! Therefore you must have my babies!!!
In my opinion, leading someone on (i.e., giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It’s bad to do that.
And sending someone who clearly wants nothing to do with you a long, creepy, accusatory tirade is polite?
Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don’t go out again after a first date. However, in our case, I’m curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship.
Dude, you do understand that she has to actually like you too in order for there to be a relationship?
I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.
You cannot argue someone into a second date! That’s not how it works.
Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don’t, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you.
Gain utility? Really? DATING IS NOT MICROECONOMICS!
In addition, even if you don’t want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn’t want to go again. Normally, I wouldn’t ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.
Well, banker dude. You’re getting some feedback now. All over the internet.
If you don’t want to go again, then apparently you didn’t think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.
So your argument is that she should go out with you, even though she doesn’t want to go out with you, because life isn’t perfect and you’re probably the best she really deserves?
Way to sell yourself, dude.
If you’re not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn’t given those mixed signals. I feel led on.
Well, she’s not really responsible for you thinking that every woman who twirls her hair in your presence wants to have your babies.
We have a number of things in common.
Oh dear, sounds like we’ve got another “logical” argument coming up here.
I’ll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I’m in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn’t be seriously involved with a woman if she didn’t like classical music. You said that you’re planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future. As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often. You’re very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn’t take any significant additional time on your part.
Um, what?
I have no clever remark to make here, other than that Lauren is probably going to have to avoid going to the Philharmonic ever again, on the off chance she might run into banker Mike.
According to the internet, you’re 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we’re a good match in terms of age.
YOU ARE RIGHT AGE. INTERNET SAYS SO. THEREFORE YOU MUST DATE ME.
I could name more things that we have in common, but I’ll stop here. I don’t understand why you apparently don’t want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common.
Also, you both require oxygen to live. Lauren, can’t you see that you and banker Mike are soulmates?
I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn’t find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date. You already knew what I looked like before our date.
Banker Mike: You said you wanted feedback. Here is some feedback. She was apparently not horrified by your physical appearance. It may be your horrible personality that needs some work.
Perhaps, you’re unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a “real” job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I’ve made my parents several millions of dollars. That’s real money. That’s not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it’s a real job. Donald Trump’s children work for his company. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so. George Soros’s sons help manage their family investments. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so.
You’re fighting a losing battle here, dude. Just as you cannot argue someone into liking you, you cannot argue someone into being impressed that you manage your parents’ money.
In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer.
And I’m the Queen of Denmark.
That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren’t like that. I’ve never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you.
Oy. As if this email wasn’t stalkerish enough already.
I’ve gone out with a lot of women in my life. (FYI, I’m not a serial dater. Sometimes, I’ve only gone out with a woman for one date.)
This last bit I have no trouble believing.
I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens.
I suspect that Lauren has already played out various scenarios in her head already, and that none of them end well.
Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven’t returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I’m open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too.
So now you’re being noble and “open minded” for trying to pressure a woman who wants nothing to do with you into a second date?
If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life.
Now you’re just making my skin crawl.
I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.
Here’s a solution, dude: How about she never goes on another date with you, ever. Then you won’t ever have to worry about her being late ever again.
If you’re concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don’t want to go with me again, well, my feeling are already hurt. I’m sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.
I hope you find the feedback that the internet has now provided you to be helpful.
If you don’t want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals).
Now we’re back on this again.
In my opinion, you shouldn’t act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It’s bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you’re not interested in going out with me again.
Damn you, foul strumpet, and your devious hair-playing ways! Google it! GOOGLE IT!!!
I would like to talk to you on the phone.
I think you’ve pretty much guaranteed that this will never, ever happen.
Even if you don’t want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me, but my feelings are already hurt. Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would better than no response at all, but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.
Not much to misinterpret here, Mike. You’ve made it absolutely crystal clear that you’re an undateable creep.
Let me be serious for a moment. Forget about Lauren. Hell, forget about women in general for a while, and work on yourself. Get some therapy; you can afford it. Work through your bitterness, your petulance, your highly unattractive mixture of entitlement and insecurity. Stop being a “Nice Guy” and learn to be genuinely nice.
And don’t ever, ever, ever write another email like this one.
Posted on December 8, 2011, in creepy, evil women, men who should not ever be with women ever, nice guys, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,020 Comments.
Brandon:
Would they still like you if they read your posts in this thread and knew that you were the author?
It’s a little late for crocodile tears, don’t you think?
(How deep is this hole going to get before you’re done with this thread?)
@Bee; Really? you redacted the word retarded? This is why I can’t take feminists seriously…you guys get all in a huff about crap that most people brush off as trite and insignificant.
The same group of women that is pushing to allow women in the Navy Seals is the same group that can’t deal and resorts to censorship when you use a “bad word”. The Taiban’s new weapon is guy with a megaphone yelling “curse words” at us. Go get em feminists!
I don’t think you really see how comical you guys actually are.
“I don’t think you really see how comical you guys actually are.”
As funny as a guy who agrees with David K. Meller?
It’s certainly is sad that rape and abuse is so common. I presume that’s what you meant?
Of course, this site also appeals to douchebag misogynistic trolls. I kinda feel like that’s sad too, but … in a different way.
@Wetherby: Actually I wasn’t being sympathetic. More like pity.
Brandon, you total doofus. It’s not *sad* when people who have been abused/raped find a space where they feel comfortable speaking about it. Also this site explicitly makes fun of abuse/rape apologists, so no freaking duh you’ll find people here who have had those experiences.
“More like pity.”
We’re touched, Brandon.
Actually, I think we have a fairly ordinary number of survivors. Just rather more who’ll say that they were.
Also, so far, Brandon has been ableist, sexist and classist. All he has to do is be racist and I’ll have bingo!
Nice try at concern trolling, Brandon. We’re not the broken, fluffy kitties you seem to think we are. Fuck right off with that nonsense.
Why does this site appeal to you? It is so you can apologize for rape, blame victims, and side with abusers?
This does not have appeared to work for you.
Brandon: @Shora: There you go telling me what I believe. I will be more than willing to clarify if you have a question…but don’t just go reading things that aren’t there.
You have a hard time admitting to the things which are there.
Is it me or does this site just appeal to people that have been abused or raped? It’s so sad.
1: I suspect this is a place, and context people are willing to share.
2: I suspect, given your obvious levels of empathy, sympathy and understanding, that people are less likely to confide in you.
3: In my experience, the numbers here aren’t atypical. I would wager there are actually more than that, but that people being assholes (e.g. yourself) keep them from speaking out.
Maybe instead of pointing and jeering you should think about why she redacted the word? Clue: it’s got nothing to do with it being a “curse word”.
I’m going to a good school to get a doctorate in something I like and, when I can pay attention to stuff long enough to accomplish things, I’m doing well at it.
My dad realized that what he did was wrong, and he’s trying to make amends. He’s on medication and in therapy. When I visit my parents, he and I drink wine and watch the History Channel together, and it’s actually really fun.
He and I aren’t the sad ones here. You, on the other hand, are making excuses for rape to a group of people which includes rape survivors.
Brandon:@Wetherby: Actually, it is a very small group of people, feminists, that tend to dislike me.
That would be the people you claim you go out of your way to offend. Color me suprised they don’t like you.
Yes, yes, Brandon. You come to us from the world of the reasonable dude, and thus you can point out to us how silly we are. Thankyou. We dont know what we’d do without you. So, you’d be totally fine with showing this comment thread around to people you know, who like you very much, and just taking the “reasonable man test” as to whom in this thread is being reasonable? You think you’d come out shiny?
“I do only fuck people I find hot, though. Chubby boys with soft stomachs, boys with long hair, androgynes, skinny boys, boys with chest hair that brushes against your face when you cuddle, boys in suits.”
LOL – yeah right! If this is really true than you are truly a diamond in the rough, so to speak! Very few women actually are like this, sure many SAY they think this way, but actions are the true determinant of one’s character.
“I dunno, dude! We don’t owe you any sex bots, why don’t you design some of your own?”
I never said, or implied, that anyone owes me anything. Actually… I am a robotics doctoral candidate. I am focusing on research that would bring the “SexBot” closer to reality. The Japanese are getting quite realistic with their implementations, the US is not far behind and we are actually working on some ground breaking robotics that will hopefully change the world (not just “SexBots”! although that would be a change for the better).
“My rapist was from a good family, living in a nice neighborhood, in the suburbs. Not a crackhead or junkie in sight.”
Similar to my rapist. She lived in a nice neighborhood, in one of the largest homes, came from a nice family, everyone thought she was nice, etc. On the rape issue, I think the dude who’s getting bashed here was just trying to say that there are some things that one can do to minimize risks of anything, including rape. To equate that common sense suggestion to being “rape apologizing” is plain dim-witted.
“I have never dated a millionaire or an underwear model.”
But I’m sure you would, in a heartbeat, given the chance. Like they say, most women are only as faithful as their options.
I don’t mean ACTUAL underwear models, just dudes who look kind of like them. You know, 6-pack abs, perfect teeth, muscular arms, square jaw line, basically ripped?
“But not everyone I find attractive is Calvin Klein material, and how sexy I find an individual is influenced their personalities.”
That’s what they all say! But I’m sure you have some pretty high standards and most men, no matter how good their personalities, don’t have a chance with you because they don’t have the looks of an “underwear model”. I’m sure you’ll say it isn’t so, but then return to ignoring men who don’t look “hot” according to you (and the media of course).
Comedy like telling people who’ve been the victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault that they didn’t fight back hard enough or wore the wrong outfit?
Funny like that you mean?
Anyway, your bullshit deflection is predictable.
Pecunium and Wetherby just laid out, explicitly, the way you: 1) agreed with the Mellertoad about understanding why feminist women may be raped, beaten or killed and 2) the various ways you’ve been apologizing rape since entering this discussion.
Care to provide some sort of rebuttal to their analysis of your writing? Or are you just going pick a random, and irrelevant point made by a different poster and resort to your usual, “Look over there!”?
Aw, he pities us. How cute.
Yeah, Brandon, what would your oh-so-educated friends or even your “girlfriend” think of what you write here?
So, outline for us what those things are. What can we do to minimize our risk of being raped or sexually assaulted? What did you fail to do to minimize your risk of rape?
And just in case we thought Brandon couldn’t get any more casually offensive, he pulls yet another scrawny rabbit out of his moth-eaten top hat and rubs it in our faces.
I suspect he thinks this is “winning an argument” or successful “mockery”.
How dare we only fuck people we’re attracted to. How do you propose to remedy this situation, of women having preferences, assign us to random men by lottery?
“I don’t mean ACTUAL underwear models, just dudes who look kind of like them. You know, 6-pack abs, perfect teeth, muscular arms, square jaw line, basically ripped?”
It’s2011-WhereRSexBots, you realize that it’s only been very, *very* recently that the fat acceptance movement started? And it’s pretty much all online, despite the occasional “fat issue” of Vogue. If you want to break down current beauty standards, we’ve got a lot of work to do on the culture as a whole, not just on one gender.
Yeah, taking out a word that a stupid douchebag used when he was typing out his pissy comment to me is getting all in a huff. Whereas writing a pissy comment back to me about how exercised you are that I removed your word is not. Good call.
So when you walk around in the world and see heterosexual couples every, single, man you see out with a woman looks like an underwear model or is a millionaire? Really?
Where do you live?
Come to think of it, I’ve lived in DC for two years now and I’ve only met one dude with visible abs… didn’t like him much.
It’s2011: LOL – yeah right! If this is really true than you are truly a diamond in the rough, so to speak! Very few women actually are like this, sure many SAY they think this way, but actions are the true determinant of one’s character.
You might want to put your house in order. In 30 years of being sexually active, I’ve known a lot of those “diamonds in the rough” you dismiss (not all of them in a “personal” manner, I am taking my friends into account).
The truth of the matter is, most women don’t have a chance with me. I don’t expect to have a chance with most women either. But there are millions of women in the cities I’ve lived in, and it only takes one.
Being poly, I have/have had, more than one at a time. So the fault, my dear boy, seems to lie with you, not your stars.
Brandon: @Wetherby: Actually I wasn’t being sympathetic. More like pity.
Now this is sad. Wetherby wasn’t saying you were being any sort of sympathetic. He was saying you were being a two-faced douchebag.
And you either didn’t get it, or thought that was a witty comeback. I think you might want to go back to commuting on the MBTA.
@hellkell: Actually I wasn’t showing any concern.
@Pecunium: Actually, I have a lot of empathy and sympathy for everyone…just not feminists.
@Wetherby: Why? Because weak people can’t handle strong language.
Chris Rock actually said that, but he said it about men. Not that it matters. Some people, regardless of their gender, are only as faithful as their options.
You wouldn’t date someone attractive or wealthy if they showed interest in you? Do you object on principle or is it that you only date people you find unattractive or who are poor?
Sexbot, you do realize Ozy was talking about people zie ACTUALLY SCREWED, right? Zie was talking about zir actual actions, not zir abstract preferences for attractiveness. So was everyone else. A lot of people here have had a lot of sex partners, and they know exactly the trends in things that turn them on because they have an extensive history of actions they can generalize from.
I thought that “actions are the true determinant of one’s character”: i.e. what people have actually done, not what people would potentially do. Quit moving your goalposts around.
It’s2011-WhereRSexBots:
As I said at the time, if “the dude who’s getting bashed here” had made just one of the five comments I highlighted, I might be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. But not all five.
Lest we forget, this is someone who boasted about “joking” about “using women as fuck toys” in the middle of a debate about rape, after he’d already been told that one of the participants had been raped when she was still a child.
I don’t know about you, but “plain dim-witted” is the nicest explanation I can come up with for Brandon’s behavior here. Maybe he genuinely thought he was being funny. After all, he seems to laugh a lot, though I’ve never been entirely sure at what.
@hellkell: Ashley knows I post here.
“Actually, I have a lot of empathy and sympathy for everyone…just not feminists.”
Cuz they deserve what they get, right, Brandon? Not wanting to have to carry arms all the time and wanting to live with people and wearing whatever the hell they want is just infuriating! Who do they think they are, MEN?
Of course you have no concern! You have never shown any compassion for any person, nor do we expect you to. The one thing you have been consistent in is being as obtuse as possible, while proclaiming your brilliance.
Brandon: @Pecunium: Actually, I have a lot of empathy and sympathy for everyone…just not feminists.
Ergo you don’t have it for everyone. Also you are willing to deny it a group, based on membership in the group (and nothing else) and you claim to be a reasonable guy.
But, from someone who has been making excuses for people to attack other people for what they’ve said, I’m not surprised.
Brandon:
And the point whooshes over your head yet again.
Mind you, the hole you’re in must be so deep that it would have to be aimed downwards to have much effect.
I had no idea they said that! “They” are so infinitely wise. Actually I don’t think it would be incredibly difficult for me to find a millionaire to date. Someone more physically appealing than my boyfriend, though? I’m not sure. When we met I thought he was really cute in his little glasses and with his sexy voice, but I had definitely seen other men and women who had turned me on more. Now I think he’s the sexiest human being alive. So, yeah, I guess he’s my Calvin Klein model, a winner is you.
Brandon: @hellkell: Ashley knows I post here.
Sure, but does she read it? (Don’t bother to answer; if you say no then it’s still an open question. If you say yes you aren’t likely to be believed: you’ve destroyed most, if not all, of your credibility on the subject of Ashley; if nothing else).
Does your mother know?
How about the rest of your female acquaintances (like the lesbian you hang out with, because she’s such a swell member of the gang)?
No shit, Sherlock. You really are think as a brick, aren’t you? Look up concern trolling.
Of course Ashley knows you post here, and I’m sure she knows the content and thinks it’s just dandy, along with everything else you do.
You said you mom’s a feminist, does that mean you have no sympathy for her?
Goddamn, do we have to describe all of our past ugly boyfriends every single day to appease some guy who can’t get a date?
I will say that I have gone out with lots of guys, none of who are, were, or will ever become underwear models. (They may become millionaires; who knows.) I did go out with a guy, right before my current boyfriend, who accused me of breaking up with him because he wasn’t Brad Pitt, when in fact it was because (and he knew this) he had breached my trust and violated my boundaries. The guy before that was most assuredly not an underwear model, but he constantly made sure I knew that he really thought that he deserved to date an underwear model. So that explains why I’m not dating him anymore.
I know dating (and not dating, when you want to) is frustrating, but it gets a lot easier when you don’t hate the other sex and you actually think of them as people, just like you. Good luck.
I love how Brandon has no empathy or sympathy with feminists, but claims that he’d kill the hypothetical rapist of his mother. It’s funny see, because Brandon’s mother is, according to him, a feminist. And that makes her kind of annoying. But her loves her anyway because, you know, being a feminist isn’t the only thing about her. And she’s his mom and stuff.
Now, the rest of the feminists, well, being a feminist is the only important thing about them. And they’re never somebody’s mother, daughter, sister, aunt, girlfriend, wife, friend…
So, having empathy and sympathy for them as human beings is, apparently, pointless. Feminism negates humanity.
Unless you’re Brandon’s mom. Then it’s okay.
I hate being in a different time zone from most of the rest of you, but it’s after midnight where I am, and I’m going to have to call it a night as I have to do the school run tomorrow (i.e. the kind of responsibility that Brandon will hopefully never know, as the thought of someone as selfish and insensitive as him becoming a parent is frankly horrific).
But I can see that this thread is in good hands.
G’night, Wetherby!
You know what, I actually did date an underwear model once.Briefly. I mean, he was a model; I don’t know if he ever modeled underwear, specifically. But let me tell you, he could’ve. Hoo boy.
It was, what we call, a fling. We tried to communicate for a bit after he moved but conversation wasn’t really his strong suit and there was no reason to attempt continuing the relationship long-distance. He was an absolute sweetheart and, if memory serves, married a really nice woman who is an accountant and he installs telephone systems for offices.
He was a nice guy.
@Nobinayamu: I would take the time to write a lengthy rebuttal, but I am sure it will just get twisted around. If I actually thought I would get a fair shake, then I would. But I will get a bunch of snark and stupid comments about some irrelevant point (e.g misspelled word) that I wrote.
For the most part, the commenters here have taken what I have said and blown it out of proportion to the point where it is hysterical. That is why I don’t defend the “brandon the rape apologist” comments. Why? Because I know I am not one and your opinion of me means dick. My thinking does not excuse the rapist nor am I blaming the woman for what happened to her. You have taken people trying to look out for women’s interests as “victim blaming” because people are offering women advice on how to avoid that situation because they know you can’t actually control a rapist. So saying stupid platitudes like “well men shouldn’t rape” does jack squat to protect women from rape. Ya…men shouldn’t rape. But we live in the real world, where a group of men do. I would rather be armed with a tazer then spewing “coulda’s, woulda’s, shoulda’s” about why rapists shouldn’t do what they do.
Anyways, I am pretty much done for the night.
Dude, I have the option to wank to porn with underwear models in it. Instead, I put in significant effort to find porn with boys of the body type I’m attracted to– and, yes, that includes chubby stomaches and adorably crooked teeth. (Thank the Porno Gods for James Deen.) This isn’t about options, it’s about ACTUAL PHYSICAL PREFERENCES. Which DIFFER.
I also have an actual preference for people who aren’t creepers, so you’re out of the running.
Just to be clear, James Deen has neither crooked teeth nor a chubby stomach, but he is the EPITOME of a cute skinny nerdy-looking Jewish boy and I would ride him like a rollercoaster.
@Nobinayamu: My mother is special in the sense that she raised me and took care of me. Did your mother raise me? No…that is why she doesn’t get an “exception”. The fact that she tends to behave like a feminist is a flaw that I overlook because she has done so much for me.
I wish feminists would stop taking themselves and everything to do with women so effing seriously and try to lighten up for once. Oh well, guess that’s wishful thinking on my part…………
OBTW, the ability to laugh at ourselves is something that women could really learn from us menz! :-)
Oh look, the faker is here!
Brandon, the commenters here have quoted you exactly. They haven’t paraphrased you, they haven’t taken your remarks out of context and, other than Bee redacting a word, they haven’t misquoted you or altered your writing. During the course of this discussion, no one has picked on your grammar or your spelling. You’ve been asked questions based on nothing but the ideas you’ve presented and you’ve avoided answering difficult questions, made bullshit dodges and -when answering a question directly- back tracked, moved goal posts and generally been the dishonest, hypocritical, lazy-thinking, shit-bird with whom we’re all deeply familiar.
You don’t defend yourself because your shit, laid out in black and white like Pecunium did, is indefensible. You crave attention so you supported Meller’s statement, reprehensible though it was and then feigned ignorance of the implications. To be fair, you’re pretty ignorant; you may not have been pretending.
Your critical thinking skills are as near nonexistent as your capacity for reading comprehension. You’re fucking moron. That’s why you fail to see how saying things like: women should wear different clothes (which you never provided examples of, incidentally) or carry tasers (Where should we carry them? Do we always need to have them? Do we give them to five year olds?), or fight back harder, or not hang out with proles are all forms of rape apology. You can’t carry your thoughts to their logical conclusion.
You enjoy all the not television watching you do of Scrubs and Southpark.
@Monsieur: I know, The ones I have had face to face conversations with just seem like nipping little dogs. Just waiting to attack for any offense you might make to their precious sensibilities. They seriously need to relax and not take life so damn seriously.
No U!
FTR: I cannot prove that said e-mail is a fake and a fabrication………But neither have any of you people shewn any evidence that it’s legit! I guess bostonian, pecunium, & friends actively want to believe it’s genuine so they can get their kicks mocking somebody who did something socially clumsy. I shared that e-mail w/ 2 neurotypical friends of mine and both of them agree that it’s totally phoney. Carry on!
So the one with the fake girlfriend is talking to the one with the fake diagnosis!
Both of whom have taken great offense to a website mocking misogyny…
And neither of whom can take a joke.
Brandon, if you wanna see some feminists joke on the oh so deadly serious topic of rape prevention, here you go —
http://ami-rants.blogspot.com/2011/05/justice-avengers-of-cat-doom-ami-trish.html
part 1
http://ami-rants.blogspot.com/2011/07/ami-trish-and-zhinxy-snarkle-rape.html
part 2
And seriously, though, the ladies of Manboobz are so humorless. It’s like reading tax codes every time I come in here.
Of course my mother didn’t raise you Brandon. If she had, then my father would’ve been your father and, between the two of them, you’d have been a better person. My folks abhor laziness, will not tolerate dishonesty, and raised us to believe that recognizing the humanity in others is a default position.
Like I said, your mother is your mother so the fact that she is a feminist doesn’t mean that bad things deserve to happen to her. All the other feminists aren’t your mother so we deserve any bad things that happen to us. Feminism negates humanity. Unless you’re Brandon’s mom.
You’ve only proven my point, Brandon.
Dude, you are the one who claimed a 20 year diagnosis, which is really unlikely. Many people have been on the receiving end of emails like the OP.
Brandon: @Nobinayamu: I would take the time to write a lengthy rebuttal, but I am sure it will just get twisted around. If I actually thought I would get a fair shake, then I would. But I will get a bunch of snark and stupid comments about some irrelevant point (e.g misspelled word) that I wrote.
Because that’s all that’s ever happened to you. No one has ever responded to the content of what you wrote. No one would ever go back to quote you directly: certainly not repeatedly through 692 comments in a thread on marriage. No one would go to outside sources, or point to historical trends.
Nope, never happens. You never get the fair shake of having your actual arguments be the subject of response to you. And you have never resorted to unfounded insults about another poster here… never falsely accused anyone of being, e.g. a manhater.
You have been misrepresented, or something. People have been so mean to you, what with asking you to answer questions to explain yourself, or citing things like laws in response to you, and stuff like that.
So unfair.
Aw man, yeah, MRAs not only love to laugh at themselves, they especially love it when you laugh at them! Hey, I’ve got an idea. Let’s go to the Spearhead and make fun of them! Those jovial bastards will love it.
Two misogynists go on a humorous feminist blog, claim feminists have no sense of humor.
“So, outline for us what those things are. What can we do to minimize our risk of being raped or sexually assaulted? What did you fail to do to minimize your risk of rape?”
In my case, there was not much that could be done since I was a child. i didn’t know much about that stuff, but she did and she used it to her advantage. But, as an adult, there are many things one can do to minimize the risk of being raped. One is to not get inebriated every weekend, at some random place, and then stumble home alone. Another would be not to be alone with someone who you don’t know very well. Another is don’t dress like a prostitute in any of the above mentioned situations.
In my case, I failed to be old enough or knowledgeable enough about the risks. But that’s not my fault, it was the rapists fault for being that way. But I’m sure I wouldn’t be in a situation where I could be raped again. I avoid going to prison as much as I can, I don’t get wasted with strange women (maybe why I must develop SexBot technologies? LOL) and i don’t go anywhere alone with women, or men, who I barely know. I don’t wear super tight jeans that show my “package” or my “assets” either. There was a fondling incident (some girl grabbed my butt a couple times) in my hs years, so I stopped wearing super tight jeans (much to my testicle’s agreement:)
Sure, getting a concealed weapons permit and training are also options. But it all depends on how sure you are that you would effectively use your sidearm in a confrontation, etc.
“How do you propose to remedy this situation, of women having preferences, assign us to random men by lottery?”
Of course not. That is a plain logical fallacy of an argumentative tactic, and you know it! Or at least I think you should know it.
It’s not having preferences that messes everyone’s lives up. It’s having too high of preferences that does that. Think about it, if nearly every woman believes that she must have a top 10% male for a mate, then there are going to be 140 million women pining over 15 million men. Those 10% of men love it! And so do the 140 million women, when they are able to snag a top 10% dude. Other times, they may “settle” for a top 20% or whatever, but then if another top dude comes along, she’ll jump right up there!
But when the dudes who “are attractive enough” are no longer attracted to you, what happens? You either “settle” or become a lonely old woman. And when a woman feels she is forced to “settle”, there is not a measurement of the amount of scorn she will have for the man she “settled” with.
Plain and simple, not everyone can be an astronaut, or have a top 10% guy. Sure maybe many women can have a top 10% guy for a few weeks, or maybe even a few years, but eventually he most likely will find another woman since nearly all women want him.
Lower your expectations. Just because a guy doesn’t meet your 38 bullet points of physical attractiveness according to the media, doesn’t mean he can’t be considered as a good person who is datable.
“You wouldn’t date someone attractive or wealthy if they showed interest in you?”
Actually, i’d date just about anyone who is under 55 and under 300 Lbs. So that includes about 70% of the population. Most women on the other hand, wouldn’t date a guy unless he is nearly perfect it seems. It’s like women are locking themselves out from meeting and getting to know and dating and possibly falling in love with nearly 90% of the male population! Why is that?
“A lot of people here have had a lot of sex partners, and they know exactly the trends in things that turn them on because they have an extensive history of actions they can generalize from.”
Yes, one of the perks of being a woman, or a man in the top 10%. But for the rest of us, we don’t have the luxury of having “had a lot of sex partners” with which to “generalize from”. I wish! Must be nice!
“Actually I don’t think it would be incredibly difficult for me to find a millionaire to date. Someone more physically appealing than my boyfriend, though? I’m not sure. When we met I thought he was really cute”
And there we have it… the official millionth post I’ve read that confirms the truth that women are WAY more superficial than men. It’s all about looks for women, and the above post is literally the millionth one I’ve read that confirms that fact.
I don’t consider looks anymore to be honest. Beggar’s can’t be choosers, as is commonly said. I would date just about any woman I’ve met in the last five to ten years, honestly. It’s not about looks for me, it’s about companionship, sharing time (good and bad) and having as much fun as you can with another. I don’t care if she looks like Medusa honestly, if she is fun to hang out with and intelligent and witty, etc. I’d love to date her:)
NamelessDudeBro: FTR: I cannot prove that said e-mail is a fake and a fabrication………But neither have any of you people shewn any evidence that it’s legit!
Ah, but you are the one making the claim of fact.
You are also saying that more than one fake is involved.
It’s your obligation to support those claims, otherwise they fail on their face. It’s called logic, and it’s what arguments need. Your assertion isn’t possessed of any argument.
@zhinxy
Personally, “don’t have bird feeders, it attracts rapists” cracks me up every time.
Hey, tax codes can make for entertaining reading . . .
It’s2011: It’s not having preferences that messes everyone’s lives up. It’s having too high of preferences that does that. Think about it, if nearly every woman believes that she must have a top 10% male for a mate, then there are going to be 140 million women pining over 15 million men. Those 10% of men love it! And so do the 140 million women, when they are able to snag a top 10% dude. Other times, they may “settle” for a top 20% or whatever, but then if another top dude comes along, she’ll jump right up there!
Good thing that doesn’t actually happen.
Your real complaint, when the persiflage is stripped away, is that the women of the world don’t seem to have you as their preference. Because the vast majority of men (far more than the 10 percent you allege) are in relationships, or at least having sex on a fairly regular basis.
So your fairy tale of 140 million women (in the US, I suppose) pining after some mythical 10 percent who are rich underwear models is silly; as well as wrong.
Yes, one of the perks of being a woman, or a man in the top 10%. But for the rest of us, we don’t have the luxury of having “had a lot of sex partners” with which to “generalize from”. I wish! Must be nice!
I guess I’m one of the 10 percent then (with about 1,500 in the bank right now, 5’10, pale, slightly built), because I’ve had lots of partners. More, I am told, than the average. All in all, I suspect that’s just because most people don’t want more partners, and are happy with the number they’ve had.
I know there’s nothing more attractive to me than a guy saying that all women are shallow! NOTHING get’s my panties wetter! :P
d00d, you clearly don’t know jack about the History of asperger syndrome as a recognized condition. AS was first identified by Hans Asperger in the 1944. Then there was Lorna Wing who officially coined the term “asperger syndrome” 1981. So FYI the condition was already known to at least some in the psychiatric community BEFORE it was first introduced into the DSM IV in 1994. Think about that one for a while.
WhereRSexBots (they’re probs IN SPACE lol) read the words “very cute” and was immediately struck blind! It’s a mighty good thing he can touch-type.
Jesus, SexBot, so much wrong with what you wrote.
Only speaking for myself of course, but I don’t think I’m the only woman like me.
I don’t have 38 specific criteria for men I date. Especially not physical ones.
I date guys I like who appear to like me back.
All of the guys I’ve had sex with or dated were good-looking, cute, or attractive to me, but not to everyone. And I confess, some of them weren’t super good-looking to me until they grew on me. Some of them had nice smiles or a friendly personality that I liked. Some of them smelled good or made funny jokes or, I dunno, had something in common with me that I thought was nice.
When I started dating my current boyfriend, I was looking more or less for a companion I could fuck. Sounds similar to what you’re looking for. Hey, maybe women and men — some of them anyway — want the same things. Maybe different people want different things, and women are people, and not all women want what you think they do.
Maybe there’s something about you that puts women off. Not knowing you, it’s hard to say. Anyway, I guess what I’m saying is you appear to hold a lot of whack ideas about women and dating, and it would benefit you to free yourself of them. Find out. Or don’t, build a sexbot and be happy with that. Again, good luck.
Why don’t you have more of a sense of humor faker? Oh wait NO U
Sexbot. Bro. That wasn’t my point. You claimed that the people here were lying or deluded about their sexual preferences because their “actions” were different from what they claimed they were interested in, i.e. that there’s a gap between who they actually sleep with vs. who they say they would. That statement was intended to be a counterargument, because a lot of people here have had a lot of sex partners and are reporting their preferences based on their actual histories. They know what they’re attracted to, even under your standards for knowing (which is to look at your actions rather than your thoughts).
Also, um, dude, I am not one of the people with oodles of sexual experience here, I’ve actually had practically none. I still know what I am not attracted to though, and it’s the block-jawed underwear models that you keep bringing up.
Then why haven’t you? There are tons of women on any dating site who fit those criteria and who don’t have very high standards at all, or are “desperate” to date pretty much anyone. Go find one of those women and quit complaining.