How to creep out the entire internet, lovelorn banker edition
Try dressing as a nun. Then maybe he'll go away.
Dating can be tough. It can be especially tough if your personality is a mixture of petulance and insecurity. And even tougher if you think you can argue someone who’s not interested in you into a second date with an angry, accusatory, sometimes hilarious, sometimes deeply unsettling 1600-word email. And no, I’m not speaking hypothetically here.
The email in question, written by a young investment banker named Mike to an unfortunate woman named Lauren after one less-than-great date, was posted on Reddit a couple of days ago, and has already gotten a lot of internetty attention, but some of you may not have seen it, so I thought I’d give it a little fisking anyway. Settle in; it’s going to be a long and bumpy ride. (Note: What follows below is most of the email; I’ve cut out a few passages here and there.)
Hi Lauren,
I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed that I haven’t gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.
Well, we’re off to a not-so-good start. Perhaps she is, as they say, just not that into you?
FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can’t see someone’s body language or tone of voice in an email. I’m not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I’m honest and direct by nature, and I’m going to be that way in this email.
Gosh, I wonder why Lauren didn’t get back to him.
By the way, I did a google search, so that’s how I came across your email.
Google-stalking – always a nice touch. There’s no better way to charm a nice lady than by tracking down her personal information online.
I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.) I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.
Uh, what? She’s ignoring you, dude. She doesn’t want to go out with you. Seems to me she’s sending you a pretty unmixed message here.
Should she have responded to your voicemail and/or texts? In an ideal world, perhaps, but she may have sensed that you’d react precisely how you’re reacting now, and didn’t want to have anything more to do with your creepy, entitled bullshit.
And now Mike the banker makes his, er, “case” for why she should go on a second date with him:
Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:
-You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I’ve never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn’t look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.
You were flirting!! Hair-twirling = sex! If you don’t realize it you can google search it!!!
-We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per-minute basis, I’ve never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.
Eye contact is an Indicator of Interest. IOI! IOI! If you didn’t want to bear my children why did you look at me, with your eyes????
-You said, “It was nice to meet you.” at the end of our date. A woman could say this statement as a way to show that she isn’t interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said–that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.
Well, not really. This is what people say to be polite at the end of a disappointing date, when they don’t want to see you again. If she wanted to see you again, she would have said something about making plans for a second date.
-We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement.
We had a conversation! You did not flee in horror! Therefore you must have my babies!!!
In my opinion, leading someone on (i.e., giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It’s bad to do that.
And sending someone who clearly wants nothing to do with you a long, creepy, accusatory tirade is polite?
Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don’t go out again after a first date. However, in our case, I’m curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship.
Dude, you do understand that she has to actually like you too in order for there to be a relationship?
I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.
You cannot argue someone into a second date! That’s not how it works.
Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don’t, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you.
Gain utility? Really? DATING IS NOT MICROECONOMICS!
In addition, even if you don’t want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn’t want to go again. Normally, I wouldn’t ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.
Well, banker dude. You’re getting some feedback now. All over the internet.
If you don’t want to go again, then apparently you didn’t think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.
So your argument is that she should go out with you, even though she doesn’t want to go out with you, because life isn’t perfect and you’re probably the best she really deserves?
Way to sell yourself, dude.
If you’re not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn’t given those mixed signals. I feel led on.
Well, she’s not really responsible for you thinking that every woman who twirls her hair in your presence wants to have your babies.
We have a number of things in common.
Oh dear, sounds like we’ve got another “logical” argument coming up here.
I’ll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I’m in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn’t be seriously involved with a woman if she didn’t like classical music. You said that you’re planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future. As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often. You’re very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn’t take any significant additional time on your part.
Um, what?
I have no clever remark to make here, other than that Lauren is probably going to have to avoid going to the Philharmonic ever again, on the off chance she might run into banker Mike.
According to the internet, you’re 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we’re a good match in terms of age.
YOU ARE RIGHT AGE. INTERNET SAYS SO. THEREFORE YOU MUST DATE ME.
I could name more things that we have in common, but I’ll stop here. I don’t understand why you apparently don’t want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common.
Also, you both require oxygen to live. Lauren, can’t you see that you and banker Mike are soulmates?
I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn’t find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date. You already knew what I looked like before our date.
Banker Mike: You said you wanted feedback. Here is some feedback. She was apparently not horrified by your physical appearance. It may be your horrible personality that needs some work.
Perhaps, you’re unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a “real” job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I’ve made my parents several millions of dollars. That’s real money. That’s not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it’s a real job. Donald Trump’s children work for his company. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so. George Soros’s sons help manage their family investments. Do they have “real” jobs? I think so.
You’re fighting a losing battle here, dude. Just as you cannot argue someone into liking you, you cannot argue someone into being impressed that you manage your parents’ money.
In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer.
And I’m the Queen of Denmark.
That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren’t like that. I’ve never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you.
Oy. As if this email wasn’t stalkerish enough already.
I’ve gone out with a lot of women in my life. (FYI, I’m not a serial dater. Sometimes, I’ve only gone out with a woman for one date.)
This last bit I have no trouble believing.
I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens.
I suspect that Lauren has already played out various scenarios in her head already, and that none of them end well.
Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven’t returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I’m open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too.
So now you’re being noble and “open minded” for trying to pressure a woman who wants nothing to do with you into a second date?
If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life.
Now you’re just making my skin crawl.
I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.
Here’s a solution, dude: How about she never goes on another date with you, ever. Then you won’t ever have to worry about her being late ever again.
If you’re concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don’t want to go with me again, well, my feeling are already hurt. I’m sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.
I hope you find the feedback that the internet has now provided you to be helpful.
If you don’t want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals).
Now we’re back on this again.
In my opinion, you shouldn’t act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It’s bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you’re not interested in going out with me again.
Damn you, foul strumpet, and your devious hair-playing ways! Google it! GOOGLE IT!!!
I would like to talk to you on the phone.
I think you’ve pretty much guaranteed that this will never, ever happen.
Even if you don’t want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me, but my feelings are already hurt. Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would better than no response at all, but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.
Not much to misinterpret here, Mike. You’ve made it absolutely crystal clear that you’re an undateable creep.
Let me be serious for a moment. Forget about Lauren. Hell, forget about women in general for a while, and work on yourself. Get some therapy; you can afford it. Work through your bitterness, your petulance, your highly unattractive mixture of entitlement and insecurity. Stop being a “Nice Guy” and learn to be genuinely nice.
And don’t ever, ever, ever write another email like this one.
Posted on December 8, 2011, in creepy, evil women, men who should not ever be with women ever, nice guys, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,020 Comments.
As similar as this is to other creepy letters I agree with one comment on Reddit that he almost certainly has severe Asperger’s. Do people here agree with this assessment and if so does this change your reaction?
With my Trollopathic powers, I predict that the troll comments on this one will all heavily imply, but never quite state, that women should go out with anyone who asks them, because preferring to only date people you like is picky entitled bitch behavior.
This will soon reach a reductio ad absurdum in which the only way to satisfy the trolls’ demands will be to allot each man a randomly selected woman.
Eventually the conversation will come to a stalemate as the trolls will bemoan at length how, for a man, not getting laid is the worst torture ever. (Women could never understand because any woman can have Brad Pitt any time she wants.)
(Brad Pitt may be 20 years older than many of the posters here, but it’s always Brad Pitt. He is the designated Only Man Women Want and I guess he will be until he dies.)
My troll prediction is that every comment will boil down to: “What a bitch!”
Entitled asshat much?
You can even do a google search on it.
I wonder if he’s aware of all Internet traditions. Actually, I’m in love with this phrase…
Investment Bankers can be twits. You can even do a google search on it
Cookies are yummy. You can even do a google search on it
Now I know how to amuse myself all day tomorrow…
She should have been way impressed about how he had all that money, but she’s not cause he’s a beta and she’s gonna go after some rich alpha.
I bet we’ll hear “ALPHA FUKC BITCHES!!11″ before the night is through.
The OP forgot to mention that Lauren needs to put the lotion on her skin or else she’ll get the hose again.
Some people on the Gawker thread where I saw this said he sounded like he was on the autism spectrum, but I think he’s a control-freak asshat.
I think the reason his “job” is managing his parents’ money is that he sends this kind of email to EVERYONE he interacts with:
“Hi, Mr. job interviewer, I’m disappointed in you. I felt like we had a really good interview yesterday, but you haven’t gotten back to any of my texts — I sent approximately 42 of them, did you miss them? I can send more — and I am disappointed about that. I think I could be really good for your company because I am awesome. I thought you liked me too, because you seemed really interested in my life and kept asking questions about me while making eye contact, which is really leading me on. You also were dressed in a nice suit so I assumed you wanted me to like you. I think you should still hire me, and I’ll still give you a chance because I don’t want you to make a huge mistake missing out on me, but either way it would be polite for you to give me extensive feedback about what exactly you didn’t like, and also you should apologize for leading me on and interviewing me if you knew it was possible you wouldn’t hire me. I googled your home address (btw your wife is really pretty) and I would love to meet up with you and talk about this in person because it’s easy to misinterpret emails. Thanks.”
For Holly
Women should go out with anyone who asks them, that the woman wants to go out with, or anyone the woman asks to go out with them and the person they asked out wants to go out with the woman.
Presumably this woman in question posted the email online without Mikes wishes, which I think is a little harsh and probably very embarassing for Mike if his details ever come out, I doubt he meant this email to be seen by the web. It was good of Lauren to block his details and hopefully she also changed both her and his name.
I wouldn’t compare this to him finding her email online, I know I have been found on facebook/other social site by people I had only passing interest in. He may have wanted to take the hint of the ignored phone calls and texts.
Wow. That’s the longest way to say “I’m a big asshole, please avoid me” ever.
As a side note, haven’t we all gotten that letter at some point in our dating lives?
Also, she’s not really a person, she’s just a checklist of things. Eye contact? Check. Hair playing? Check. He’s managed to notice all of these things about her, except her “no”, which would be obvious by the fact that she does not contact him.
Is he a boundary tester? Check!
‘On a per-minute basis, I’ve never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.’
I don’t know why but that line cracks me up. I cannot read it without laughing.
I’m sure he did not mean for anyone except the
targetumvictimum totally-compatible-female-of-breeding-age to see this email. Most guys like that don’t want their actions to see the light of day at all. Funny how that works.I predict that some of our trolls will insist that, since women don’t know what they want, if Lauren was playing with here hair she must have wanted to go out with him again/have sex with him really, she just didn’t realize.
I’m sure that Mike didn’t intend his email to be seen by anyone other than Lauren. As long as she didn’t post any identifying information about him, I don’t know why I’m supposed to care.
Bagelsan, you’re awesome.
As far as the OP… Jeeeeeeeeez. And I thought my 7:00 am* wake-up phone call after an unsuccessful 2nd date (I thought we had something special! I can’t believe you won’t give us a chance!) was bad.
*This is where you hate me for being a student and thinking 7:00 is crazy early to wake up.
“Based on my preliminary calculations I conclude that it would be in your best financial and genetic interest to enter into a long-term relationship with me. I’ve modeled a number of scenarios over a 20-year time interval and the probability of us producing a genetically superior offspring are at least two standard deviations higher than the norm. Also, as someone in the top 1% of earners you would be wise to associate romantically with me as the fortunes of the affluent continue to decouple from the masses due to globalization and the strengthening locus of money and political influence… Wait, where are you going?”
She didn’t give him her email address. He tracked it down online without her permission.
That makes me not worry about his online privacy so much. (I don’t think giving away his real name or email address would help anything, but I’m not going to shed tears that this matter wasn’t handled with the utmost discretion, either.)
Sapients and gentlebeings, you cannot argue someone into wanting to date you. No matter how many Powerpoints you present or how airtight your logic is, relationships are inherently squishy. “Dunno, don’t wanna” is a perfectly valid reason not to date someone, and you can’t change that.
I mean, if the reason she doesn’t want to date you is because you killed her father, but it was actually your evil twin brother, who is identical to you except for the mole on the back of his neck in the shape of Canada, then I think you can explain and show her the picture of the back of your neck to show that your mole is, in fact, in the shape of Swaziland. Other than that, no dice.
According to people who claim to know these folks, neither Lauren nor Mike are their real names.
I once made plans with someone, but felt uncomfortable with them on the day so I contacted him to cancel. It was rudely last-minute, to be sure, but I realized it was the wrong thing for me and I would have totally understood if he’d chosen not to see me again because of it. So anyway, I called him, and told him a couple of the reasons I would have preferred to reschedule. Every reason I gave him he argued down, getting increasingly angry as he did it. I felt disheveled coming straight from work? He didn’t care if I looked a little messy, girls always worry about that frivolous stuff but guys don’t care. I wouldn’t have a chance for dinner? There’s a Subway. I wasn’t really feeling my best after a long day and would like to just sit by myself alone? That’s a stupid reason not to go on a date, we would have fun.
I was so tempted to blurt out “alright, you win! I will go on a date that I clearly have no interest in, because you have argued me into a corner. I’m sure we will have a fantastic time.”
throwing in my prediction- were gonna here a lot about ‘creep shaming’ in the next couple of days
“As a side note, haven’t we all gotten that letter at some point in our dating lives?”
Ah gawd. My entire stint on OKCupid!
Also, I got a few messages via OKCupid that pushed the 1600 word limit of the personal messaging system there. They were all as verbose and repetitive. Circular and entitled. If I go off just the internets, this attitude is upsettingly widespread.
Also, before I get accused of being a FCUCK APHLA WMOYNYMUM B1THCH!: I messaged quite a few dudes myself who turned me down. Funny how humans have preferences, I managed to happily move on with my life mere seconds after reading the messages turning me down.
Well, I had tuition from Crown Princess Mary of Denmark’s father (as has anyone who’s done 2nd year maths at the University of Tasmania recently!)
The image that kept popping into my head as I read the letter (specifically because of the WAY it was written) was of an 11th grader trying to convince a girl to go to the prom w/ him.
Especially the part about both of them being at the philharmonic alone, so why not just go together?
Sad…creepy and sad. Hopefully she never runs across him again…and he stops google-stalking her.
Further Trollomancy: Before the thread is through we’ll have several rounds of “if a woman isn’t attractive she should just lose weight, but if a man has an unbelievably clueless and hostile personality he deserves love just as he is!”
Also… I don’t like the word “mansplaining” but I’m not sure what else to call it when men drop in here to tell us what women really want in a man, and when we reply that no, “rich and/or asshole” actually isn’t our thing, they’ll patiently tell us that we just don’t understand what women want.
I don’t know if there’s another word for it, Holly. I think that’s why the word was invented.
Hey guys, you know when you ask why women cut you off right at the first attempt to hit on them and don’t give you the chance to convince them to go out with you a bit more? This is why. Give an inch, and some people will attempt to take approximately 50,000 miles.
Privilege-spilling? Condescension-puking? Ignorance-baring? Mellering?
‘Splaining.
Because I always want to be fair, and I have had some women “Sweetie, the thing you just don’t understand is that this is best for you” me hard.
So, I’m a dood with hair about an inch long and even I sometimes play with my hair. Why have hordes of women not descended on me because of all the interest I’m showing?
Speaking of splaining, I wonder why we haven’t seen MRAL yet. Maybe he got himself caught in the oh-hell-no filter on the very first comment?
@nedbeaumontjr – so by posting that have you given “mixed signals” to the entire internet reading public?
Even if she was playing with her hair as a way of flirting, she could have changed her mind through the course of the date. I’m pretty sure people are allowed to change their minds.
i like ‘splaining myself. The person in my life who’s been ‘splaining at me lately is a woman. If I gently disagree with her opinion it’s because I’m just not smart enough to get it.
netbeaumontjr, it’s because you doods know what you want and just take it! It’s only women who send unconscious signals when we hair-twirl or eye-contact or whatever.
so by posting that have you given “mixed signals” to the entire internet reading public?
Yes. I may never date again…which is probably a good idea, since I’m happily married.
Bagelsan, is awesome, I agree!
Also, hair twirling is a sign of discomfort and/or anxiety. Someone should really tell that to Mike.
His inability to read simple social cues made me immediately think Asperger’s. As does his weird obsession with the eye contact. I know that eye contact is really difficult for many people with ASD, so I’m wondering if he’s just mixing cues and not getting the subtleties that the rest of take for granted. Eye contact is usually good, but it doesn’t always means she wants to date you…Plus there’s the monologuing and refusal to understand why poor Lauren doesn’t get what he sees as simple, irrefutable logic. It’s not that people with ASD can’t be assholes or creeps or absorb local prejudices like the rest of us, of course they can, but I would feel tremendously bad mocking someone for it. Ashamed really :/
Not to be a concern troll… but the dude’s letter just screamed Aspie at me. (Not that I’m particularly qualified to diagnose- I’m not at all. But it still did.)
Memo to arrogant, entitled, lazy, fucking bitches:
This is your fault. There is a reason awkward men are often clingy, or desperate in their seduction technique, or come off as “cr**py” (that is now a slur comparable to the n-word, as far as I’m concerned). That reason is you. Young women are, by and large, sneering, arrogant fucks toward men like this one, insecure men, short men, any man who isn’t Hitler’s Aryan ideal personified. They have no sympathy, no understanding due to their spoiled princess existence, and use their. Is it any wonder men like “Mike” are often desperate for even the briefest bit of perceived affection?
I asked someone out today. That’s the first time I have ever done that, or made any sort of “move”. She said no, and it was amiable. I wasn’t hurt. I mean I’m sure she would have said yes if I was a Pittclone, but you know, I can’t control her physical preferences, even if they are ridiculous. But that’s not the issue- the issue is that I KNOW, based on interactions with men in the real world and online, that she’ll be talking shit about me, being mean, and calling me a cr**p behind my back. Now, this doesn’t bother me overmuch because we are not friends and have no mutual acquaintances. But that’s not true for most women I am interested in, and thus, my hands are tied. I will not- NOT- risk being labeled a cr**p or a would-be rapist or whatever by people who know me. I will not risk ruining my reputation, my very name. But as a non-Ubermenschen making a move, that’s exactly what I risk.
Sure it’s a weird email, but so what? He has not broken any laws nor even harassed her. He’s clearly borderline autistic (Asperger’s, probably), and has likely had much trouble finding women because they are princess spoiled brats andFUCKING ASSHOLES. The legions of arrogant, entitled, lazy, fucking bitches who are too prim and too fucking prim and princess to associate with men who are not the Nazi ideal is staggering. And you have the GALL and the FUCKING NERVE to make fun of this man, this man pt upon by ENTITLED BITCHES. Fuck you.
I agree that the letter is inappropriate and deeply problematic. Many of the assumptions “Mike” makes are troubling. However, I do have the unsettling feeling that the writer is likely on the autism spectrum. That doesn’t render his behavior or assumptions benign, but the whole thing seems a hell of a lot less funny when viewed through that lens. While the writer is demanding, unpleasant, and socially inept, I do detect a genuine underlying wish to know what he did “wrong” in his interactions with his date, as if the subtleties of this kind of interpersonal exchange elude him. And that is actually sad, not just fodder for guffaws. At least to me.
“Lauren” does have cause to be distressed or annoyed or even disturbed by the email, but I suspect more is going on than this guy being a straight up narcissist.
A couple of days? Pshaw! Remember “Elevator-gate” and how long that interminable bull shit went on?
Ah, the “you should go out with me ’cause I want you to…” communique. I remember well, if not fondly.
I was thinking she could have been playing with her hair because she was bored.
But here’s the deal: Even if this guy does have some sort of spectrum disorder, that’s not a free pass to be an asshole.
I just threw up in my mouth a little… like 11 times.
God, I’d call him and I wouldn’t stop yelling for ages. What a pretentious jerk.
How do you know about William?!
I’m gonna agree with Malcontent on this. As an Aspergian dude myself, I’d say this guy probably has Asperger’s. I’d also say he’s a massively entitled creep. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
I know some commenters here have Asperger’s themselves and they’re going to know a lot more about it. I also know ASD is extremely heterogeneous and one person’s spectrum disorder is not the next person’s. Now, disclaimer out of the way:
My brother is an Aspie and he would never do something like this. Would he misinterpret the signals? Sure. Would he find it frustrating and difficult and wonder why people can’t think like him? Yeah. Would he feel the right to write a missive like this to another human being with her own priorities and feelings? Not in a million years. There are lots of difficulties associated with Asperger’s and similar disorders, many of which I’ll never understand. But the basic sense that other people have a right to make decisions is not one. This guy is an entitled jerk, spectrum or no.
WHY AM I ON FUCKING MODERATION FUCK
Thank you, Viscaria. One of my dearest friends is Aspie. She would never, ever write anyone a letter like this, because she is not a selfish asshole.
But here’s the deal: Even if this guy does have some sort of spectrum disorder, that’s not a free pass to be an asshole.
^ This.
People with Asperger’s are people. Which means some of them have Asperger’s and are also, unrelatedly, enormous assholes, because some people are enormous assholes.
I wouldn’t be particularly surprised if this guy is somewhere on the autism spectrum (the “I calculated the amount of eye contact you made per minute” thing does indeed sound very much like someone struggling to understand basic social interaction) – but that doesn’t make it in any way unfair to point out that this email is seriously not okay. It is not okay to try to browbeat someone into dating you. It is not okay to demand that they apologize for making eye contact with you if they didn’t want to fuck you. It is not okay to tell someone that not dating you might be “the worst mistake of their life.” And, really, it’s not fair to people on the autistic spectrum to suggest that they generally cannot help doing those things, because most of them are nicer people than that. I have friends with Asperger’s. They are not infrequently awkward. They are not, however, assholes who browbeat and insult and threaten people for having the audacity not to want to date them, because that’s not a symptom of having Asperger’s, it’s a symptom of being a douchebag.
MRAL: My bet would be because you’re an entitled asshat who treats women like shit.
Polliwog: MrB is an Aspie, I know whereof I speak.
MRAL, I have no idea why you’re on moderation. You’re always so calm and rational; our very own lil’ ray of sunshine.
KathleenB, I am the opposite of entitled, in fact, to clarify before anyone slanders me, I bent over backward to be as deferent and light and nonthreatening as humanly possible. I put MYself out there, and I was the one who was hyperventilating and nervous and sweating. It was humiliating. There was never a fucking math test this hard. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do, and princesses have to do none of it. Please understand, I don’t begrudge her refusal, even though it disappointed me. I do begrudge the fact that STILL, according to statistics and anecdote, she will be likely sneering about me, calling me a cr**p. And you ask why the fuck men are angry? Why there are MRAs?
Okay, I cannot stop laughing at MRAL’s new “women are Nazis who only date Aryan ubermenschen” schtick.
Speaking as someone whose last two boyfriends have been Jews of Eastern European heritage (and they both look stereotypically Jewish, lest you imagine they are the Brad-Pittiest Jews ever), you are so silly, MRAL. You are just so silly.
In fact, I never want to hear another fucking peep about how hard childbirth is. Yoou fucking lazy privileged bitches.
Mr. Al:
How do you know this, sweetie?
I’ve been asked out by guys that I didn’t want to go out with for some reason, and generally speaking, I might tell one person about it (“X asked me out, but he’s not my type” or whatever), but it’s NEVER become a thing that involves shit-talking meanness. Why do you KNOW that every woman does this?
Your distrust of women says a lot, Mr. Al. You wanna be liked by anyone? Don’t be a fucking douchebag, dude.
That said, I’m sorry you got turned down. That stings. But again, I am 100 percent certain that it had nothing to do with your lack of physical similarity to Brad Pitt. Get over it.
“WHY AM I ON FUCKING MODERATION FUCK”
Because you say things like “WHY AM I ON FUCKING MODERATION FUCK”, and that’s when you’re trying to be more polite and get through the filter? Maybe try again with less swearing and personal insults.
WHY AM I ON FUCKING MODERATION FUCK
questions that answer themselves…
MRAL, chill the fuck out. The dude actually got a first date, it didn’t work out. Shit happens.
I’m glad you asked someone out, and it sucks to be turned down, but I doubt she’s even thinking of you enough to talk shit. Are you sure your sunny personality didn’t shine through during the asking?
MRAL, if you really don’t know why you’re on moderation? I find that rather hard to believe.
Anyway, I let both of your comments through. Everyone is invited to scroll up and read them.
No you don’t. You may think that, but unless you bugged her purse, you have no idea what -if anything- she has or will say about you. In fact, if all you did was ask her out and the interaction can be generally described as “amiable” then she probably hasn’t given it a second thought. What bothers you more? The idea of her calling you a creep behind your back or the much more likely scenario that she’s forgotten the entire encounter?
You know what I’ve always found entitled and arrogant? The kind of men who think that because they’re interested in me, I ought to give them a shot.
” Young women are, by and large, sneering, arrogant fucks toward men like this one, insecure men, short men, any man who isn’t Hitler’s Aryan ideal personified. ”
Making it all about you much? This dude is a banker – it’s very unlikely that he’s particularly young. We also have no indication that he’s short, or not Aryan-looking.
Personally I dislike both blond hair and light eyes. That means that I’m super awesome and you don’t get to swear at me, right?
KathleenB:
Of course it doesn’t. It just puts it into a context where his inability to grasp the situation is understandable and not necessarily the result of his misanthropic, unjustified hatred for other people. Course it could be both. It just kinda doesn’t seem like it. He seems way more painfully clueless of obvious social cues than malicious.
Look, if I were to write a really bad alien movie about an alien who tried to mimic human dating/mating rituals by watching a lot of movies, I would use this man’s email as the basis for my screenplay. Forget Keanu Reeves.
Also, it reminds me so much of this autistic man that was a regular at the restaurant I worked at. He would hit on all the waitresses, and when we said we like books or movies but declined his various invitations, he would be totally baffled why we wouldn’t go out with him. And I don’t mean in a rude way, he just could not understand why anyone who like books or movies wouldn’t date him. Not because he thought he was so awesome, but because he liked liked these things and he genuinely thought that was how people bonded. And it is, kinda, but also kinda not.
This seems like growth.
Find me that statistic.
Also, what does childbirth being painful have to do with anything? Stay focused!
MRAL: Have you ever considered that maybe women don’t want anything to do with you because you kind of make the fact that you hate us and our sexual characteristics pretty fucking obvious? just because a woman has the self preservation to avoid interacting with someone who calls her a gash doesn’t mean she’s an entitled princess. It just means she has the common sense the gods gave little green apples.
You mean women who sleep with some men and not others?
Right, because I failed to fuck ALL THE MEN. I could have fixed this with my vagina! But I was greedy! I was so greedy I thought I was a person who could choose things! I MUST BE PUNISHED FOR NOT LETTING EVERY MAN FUCK ME.
Seriously fuck off. You want to be liked and you drop shit like this? Creepy will be like the n-word when we have a history of keeping creeps as slaves, you little asshole.
BULL. SHIT. We fuck plenty of men. But I am so fucking sorry we have not coordinated our efforts to fuck all the men. WHAT CAN I SAY I GOT SORE.
Good for you, and I mean it. But unfortunately, the fact that this was new and hard for you has no bearing on her. You’re new at this and you’re going to be bad at it. But if you throw the whole Monopoly board on the floor and call all the pieces bitches, you’ll always be bad at it.
Maybe you can buy some dolls or something, I dunno.
She’s probably not. Honestly, most guys that I’ve turned down I’ve felt very awkward and guilty about–it’s a painful situation, not wanting to be rejecting but also not wanting to date someone you’re not attracted to. But here you are, talking shit about her.
AND FUCK YOU, YOU SHORT-SIGHTED ASSHOLE WHO THINKS THAT JUST BECAUSE HE GREW A DICK THE WOMEN OF THE WORLD OWE HIM A PLACE TO PUT IT.
You know that? The first time you get laid it’ll be awkward and embarrassing and not as good as jerking off and you’ll realize you weren’t even that into her and you’ll leave in the morning (or maybe that night) feeling more weird than good. Nobody’s gonna treat you like an Alpha afterwards and nothing in your life’s gonna get easier afterwards. Or if you start having sex on the regular, all you’ll have is a new hobby.
But you’re never going to enjoy any of the pleasures of that hobby if you go around screaming that you’ve got some kind of fucking civil right to a vagina, because you fucking don’t. (I don’t have a right to your cock either. Does that help? It actually should.)
I am entitled. I’m entitled to decide who I sleep with. I didn’t choose an Aryan superman (my boyfriend is nerdy and dorky and looks nothing like Brad Pitt) but I didn’t choose you and until you get the fuck over that, FUCK YOU.
statisic AND anecdote.
that’s like, double proof.
The first time is always difficult; the next time you ask someone out it will be easier.
Just remember that you don’t have to ask any women out and you certainly don’t have to “cold call.” You say that you and this young woman don’t move in the same social circles. What made you ask her out?
Um, HELLO? I didn’t call her a gash, duh. And also, I don’t hate women nor do I say I hate women. And even if I did, which I don’t, I wouldn’t say that to women who I want to put my dick in.
Bee, MRAL found asking this young woman out much harder than a math test. It produced a great deal of anxiety and actual physical discomfort. Therefore, it’s much worse than the pains of labor and delivery associated with childbirth and all of us arrogant entitled bitches can just go suck it.