NWOslave

You are not sexually attracted to men and you hate women.

It seems that you are in a bind much the same as your mgtow peers.

On one hand you have to attack gay men because you’re not one of them (right?) but you also have to make your repulsion of women known on a daily basis.

It’s really quite the kettle of fish (so to speak) you’ve gotten yourself in isn’t it? I just really don’t see a way out for you.

Is there actually a way for you to live in society? I really doubt it.

The rest of the world gets by, has friends, relationships, but you can’t. I would guess that the entire mra/mgtow population is at best ten thousand. You certainly have my permission to start your own country or town, but you seem to lack the organizational skills to do so.

I’d like to help but I just don’t see how when you won’t help yourselves.

A man can dream, Cassandra. A man can dream.

@ Hershele

There’s nothing actually offensive about “cis” or “cisgender”– the point is that a lot of discussions on the internet about transgender topics get derailed by cis people who are offended at their gender/sex being put on a par with a trans person’s. They’re upset that trans people dare label them, because they’re “normal” and they don’t need a label, duh!!! Some people misunderstand the point of using “cis” and think that if trans people complain about discrimination or whatever that they’re putting down people who aren’t trans and that “cis” is a secret trans slur or something. But in any case, the conversation goes off track because then cisgendered people will argue that “if trans people get to tell me to stop saying tranny/shemale/(insert other slur here) then I get to tell them to stop using cis!!!”.

I have seen a number of conversations totally explode on mainstream gay websites due to this issue, and it’s always extremely disheartening to see it happen. Especially since the whole transgender/cisgender thing parallels the usage of “homosexual”/ “heterosexual”. But one thing that you will unfortunately learn if you spend any time in the queer community (I have no idea if you do or not, forgive me if you already do know) is that just because it’s usually called “LGBT” it doesn’t mean that a “G” will understand a “T”, or an “L” will understand a “B”, or a “T” will understand an “L”. Gay people aren’t immune from transphobia and trans people aren’t immune from homophobia. Arguments tend to get really nasty because often queers of one experience will assume they are automatically qualified to talk about others’ experiences, or that they’re automatically allies no matter what they say. (See Dan Savage for example and some of the things he’s said about women, bisexuals, and trans people.) I think that’s why I’ve almost always seen the STOP CALLING ME CIS thing on gay sites– gay or bisexual people are the only people who are exposed enough to trans people to have an opinion about trans dialogue issues but are also potentially transphobic enough to object strongly about basic terminology.

I have to admit though, as far as I’ve seen it’s mostly gay white men who get angry about being called “cis” (so it really does seem to be a privilege issue) and the occasional throwback “feminist” anti-trans white lesbian. For some reason, as far as I can gather, the bisexual/pansexual community has been historically more accepting of trans people. (This doesn’t mean that Bs are immune to transphobia though– I’ve met an occasional clueless bi person.)

Spot on, Broseidon.

Not really, he can be good looking and a woman would want him possibly at first.

Then she talks to him and goes “oh my goodness gracious, look at the time, I have to meet my dear old grandmother at the airport before I leave forever. Nice to meet you.”

MRAL, in which situations are you the smartest, would you say?

ry because no woman would ever want his ugly creepy ass anyway, amirite guys???

See, and by creepy, we mean “says things like this about women and their hideous meat holes”, not as you MRA’s like to think “Is Not Brad Pitt Bieber Gates PUA or whatever alpha means today”

How can we be so shamey???

Actually, wait, right thread! I’m confused now. Lack of sleep plus trying to transcribe an hour long interview, only half of which is in English, it making me loopy.

Not really, he can be good looking and a woman would want him possibly at first.

But have we not been taught by the wisdom of feminist blogs that women can spot creepiness a mile away and guys who are alone deserve to be that way? AKA the argument that’s always pulled out and given a good dusting-off when any guy complains he can’t get a date? Make up your minds.

Actually I think Broseidon and friends know very well that creepy means “please stop wanking through your pants while staring at me on the train while I’m trying to read a book, random businessman” rather than “ew, you’re not hot enough for me”. They’re angry precisely because they know that they are guilty of behavior that women find creepy, but they aren’t going to stop just because some bitches tell them to because dammit why should they? Etc, ad nauseum.

Inb4 the inevitable “I don’t think this guy has to worry because no woman would ever want his ugly creepy ass anyway, amirite guys??? lololol” comments from the usual suspects.

PS: You should try to make your statement as ridiculous as the one you’re aping, if you want this to work XD

You think that 99% of guys are labelled as creepy, in a general sense? Wow, you really need a better group of friends if that’s been your experience.

Cassandra: Ah yes, the old “if you defend yourself, you must be feeling guilty!” nugget. By your logic, I could call you anything and take your denial as proof that I’m right.

Did you ever read the Shroedinger’s Rapist thread comments? I can’t remember if it was that one or the other thread that spawned it, but things really got out of control when someone got out of control when someone got upset on behalf of her friend who lots of women find creepy, a friend who WALKS AROUND CARRYING A FUCKING SWORD ALL THE TIME.

Not really the lack of Brad Pitt-ness that was the issue in that case, but once again it became all about how it’s mean for women not to welcome men with open arms when the men in question are acting in strange and disconcering ways.

“Only problem with that is, 99% of guys in fact do not talk that way and are still labeled “creepy” just because they aren’t attractive enough or you’re in a bad mood that day.”

Evidence please? If all you mean is that any given guy might somehow, even innocently, somehow seem at SOME POINT “creepy” to SOME woman, (and any woman might seem creepy to some man, I mean, I’ve unintentionally scared some people in my life, it happens – Also, I’m ACTUALLY autistic and have trouble with social cues and facial expressions, I’ve creeped dudes out and so I understand the innocent PROBABLY HAS ASPERGERS dude you bring into these discussions) at SOME point in her life… Because there’s billions of women, and a dude might actually creep one out… So, is that what you mean by “labeled creepy?” – Cause that is not all women or even more than one woman labeling people with a SCARLET L for loser, or c for creep, or b for beta, or whatever.

Regardless, what are legitimate standards of creepiness, in your view, and why in the name of heaven does the OP not meet them?

Why are you so convinced that women think 99% of men are creepy, Broseidon? That’s not reality, so was it hyperbole or do you actually think that, and if so, why, and based on what evidence?

Well, in recent memory, in my own social circle, I can think of only one guy who was labelled as creepy by most of the women. Funny thing…turns out that, upon talking to people who went to college with him, he had raped at least 2 women that we know of. One of my guy friends pulled him off of a girl who was passed out drunk in a cab, and another guy friend was only able to prevent him from stripping a passed-out female coworker and molesting her by pointing out that that sort of thing tends to open the door to corporate lawsuits. Notice that the people confirming his creepiness here were men, not evil bitchy feminist women who just victimise men for not being Brad Pitt.

He was very good looking, by the way, good looking enough to have modelled if he’d wanted to. Shame about the blank-eyed Kubrik stare, which was part of why people found him creepy in the first place.

”

zhinxy: “So tell us, broseidon, what standards are we allowed to have for creepiness?”
You can have whatever standards you want, I won’t tell you how to behave. I’ll just point it out and laugh, something I believe you and the gang here have quite an appreciation for.”

Okay then. But in your opinion, is the OP “creepy?”

If not, why not?

99% of men whom are labeled creepy received it out of spite and malice? You live in a strange parallel universe to mine.

Here are some behaviors of people I’ve personally seen labeled creepy

-Covertly masturbating while staring at someone in a classroom setting
-Leaving suggestive notes on the hood of someones car
-Continual stalking despite being told not to (this went so far as a restraining order)

0% of these had anything to do with their looks. This is 99% less then the statistics provided.

He was very good looking, by the way, good looking enough to have modelled if he’d wanted to. Shame about the blank-eyed Kubrik stare, which was part of why people found him creepy in the first place.”

-Yeah, see, broseidon, and I can get “that look” sometimes too, innocently, as an autistic. But the point is, there’s a reason we have “the gift of fear” – I may not be out to harm you, but how much blame do I put on you for wondering? And yes, if I get to have long interactions with people, they know me, and I can explain, and etc. I’m just “eccentric” or “she has aspergers… NO, no, really has it!” But somebody who just sees me act oddly on a bus? They don’t have to trust me or want to talk to me. And when you get to know somebody, and there seems to be somethign “off” about them, even after long, long exposure, well, that tends to be the much less innocent mistake creepy…

I again note that I’m the one who is supposed to have a problem realizing other people aren’t me and have their own feelings…

-Covertly masturbating while staring at someone in a classroom setting
-Leaving suggestive notes on the hood of someones car
-Continual stalking despite being told not to (this went so far as a restraining order)

I just have to say it’s funny that every feminist space/blog I’ve seen has a million of these examples, yet in real life they are almost unheard-of, and when they do happen they draw as much anger and ire from men as they do from women (even more from men, often with a side of violence). Confirmation bias?

See, I feel no need to do anything but shrug and go “whatever, dude” in response to your child-abusing drunk accusation, because it’s silly. So, again, why are you so defensive about men being called creepy?

…Oh this is adorable. Run off and go play, muffin, adults are talking XD

Oh, the irony.

I just have to say it’s funny that every feminist space/blog I’ve seen has a million of these examples, yet in real life they are almost unheard-of,

Oh dear god in heaven, just go live as a woman for a while. This is the point. We have to deal with this sexual shit and you don’t. Dudes are so shocked whenthey realize this is the normal for pretty much everybody female they encounter, that here we go with the denial! NO! IMPOSSIBLE! WHO WOULD DO THAT! THAT’S INSANE! GUYS WOULD BEAT HIS ASS! I’D NEVER DO THAT!… It’s so not a part of your daily lives, that you guys don’t accept it happens. It’s so much a part of our daily lives, we basically shrug and accept it as normal unless it gets “really bad” – And it’s not feminist spaces. It’s everyday ordinary conversation with women, practically every woman I’ve ever known. Conservative women and liberal women and old women and young women and cis women and trans women and all women. We cant’ talk to you guys directly about it, because of how you react and explain it away to us. But feminist spaces give us a space to simply talk to each other like all women do, when you aren’t there. And not just feminist women. If the women in your lives don’t tell you how ordinary this is, it’s because you refuse to admit it’s ordinary. And because it is SO ordinary to us.

But have we not been taught by the wisdom of feminist blogs that women can spot creepiness a mile away and guys who are alone deserve to be that way?

I certainly have not. Most feminists can spot the creepsters like Brandon over there but the average woman needs a few minutes.

Cassandra: I’m not being defensive, it might seem that way because I’m trying to respond to 5 people at once.

This is what we have so far (it’s not the original point, but this is what it’s evolved, or devolved into): I say that a lot of guys are unfairly labeled as “creepy” by a lot of women, which is not as innocent as you might think because rumors and opinions tend to spread and damage people’s reputation and self-esteem.

You say that this isn’t true, and all creeps are labeled that way for a good reason, aka socially unacceptable behavior.

Based on personal knowledge and observation, I agree to disagree. You say that by doing this I’m defending being creepy.

Did I miss anything?

We sure are. I’ve heard from a lot of autistic women that they seem targeted more, but I don’t think I can say the same, maybe because of how I present *or maybe i put up with way more than I think I do!* – I note that I think I sometimes give off a “cold, very serious” vibe that can keep guys away – though on the other hand, my “neurotypical face” is often excessively smiley and gracious, so the “smile baby” guys are usually kept off, I think… Also, I think I zone out and miss a lot of the crap. ;) Small favors!

“Before Broseidon finds something new to whinge about – no, we are not saying that all autistic men are creepy. I used to work in tech – lots and lots of dudes who’re on the spectrum there, and most of them are not creepy, just a bit awkward.”

And yes, exactly. Like I said, with aspies and auties and such, we usually seem creepy at first, but you realize we’re just awkward and weird… It’s the people that seem, just so very normal… but you still wonder, really wonder, that I think end up comprising the real “usually labeled creepy and isn’t that HORRIBLE… well it does turn out he did x and y but STILL, WOMEN!” and our initial “creepiness” or the genuinely prejudiced reactions of others are the reason that we get dragged into this.

The drugs are now putting me really to sleep I think. man, I was so smrt tonight. I rock go me!

What basis do you have for assuming that the labelling is unfair? Since you’re a man, it’s unlikely that the men in question act creepily towards you. So basically you’re going “if I don’t see it happen, it must not be happening”, which is just silly.

(The whole doll revelation is one of the most hilarious things I’ve seen in a long time. Really, Meller is the gift that keeps on giving.)

Meller at a Doll Convention is just a David Lynch masterpiece ready to happen if somebody just films it live on their ipod or something.

Not towards me personally, but I think I’d notice it in social settings at least once in a while. Even if I was oblivious most of the time, if it happens as commonly as you and your friends claim, you’d think I would still see enough cases to make me go “hmm”. And yet I can count such instances on the fingers on one hand, with the perpetrator immediately drawing anger from everyone present, men and women alike.
To be honest I don’t think it’s even possible to agree on something like this, because I think our perceptions of the world are just too different.

With my friend what seems to happen is that when she’s in full-on social anxiety and withdrawal mode it draws in predators like chum in the water with sharks. The more freaked out she gets, the more creeps bother her. It’s really a disturbing thing to watch. I end up wanting to stand in front of her and face down the creeps all YOU SHALL NOT PASS, which is kind of hilarious since she’s 5 inches taller than me and much more physically imposing.

You know, the former coworker I was talking about before isn’t on the spectrum at all. In fact he has excellent social skills (he’s a successful salesman), there’s just something off about him that becomes more obvious the more you talk to him. You don’t notice it at first, because he actively conceals it. I know what you mean about a lot of people reading aspies as creepy, and I think some of that is gendered in that female aspies get read less as creepy and more as just weird, but again, that’s based on people’s perceptions of threat.

when they do happen they draw as much anger and ire from men as they do from women (even more from men, often with a side of violence). Confirmation bias?

Go to a major metropolitan area. Any will do as long as the state it is in has laws allowing for restraining orders-specifically ones that outline which courts you go to in order to get them. Go to that major city’s local court and sit there all day through the requested protective orders hearings and petitions.

Then slink away knowing that what you claim never happens, happens way way too often.

And considering all of the above, doesn’t it kind of imply in the end that women get to dictate how men should behave, while men have to listen and obey? That’s a bit misandric isn’t it?

Golly, it IS misandric to expect men to be respectful of a woman’s boundaries! How dare we be so hateful to men to demand that they treat us with the same level of respect as they wish to be treated with!

Golly, it IS misandric to expect men to be respectful of a woman’s boundaries! How dare we be so hateful to men to demand that they treat us with the same level of respect as they wish to be treated with!

And yet I see guys teasing and trash-talking each other all the time without filing harassment charges and restraining orders against each other. Funny.