“And what if they get killed?” A Voice for Men as an antifeminist Witchfinder General

So John the Other has responded to my post about A Voice for Men’s “bounty” on the makers of the SCUM video. It’s a fairly unhinged rant, even by his standards. Here’s the money quote:

It’s a bizarre bit of circular logic: if some deranged asshole literally kills one or more of the videomakers, this is proof that the Swedish justice system isn’t working, which therefore justifies the deranged asshole’s actions. So the existence of vigilante violence justifies vigilante violence that justifies vigilante violence.

Since when is making a video a capital crime?

After all this, John rather bizarrely claims that “[u]nlike David Futrelle, I do not and will not lend myself to the support of violence, or indeed, of murder.”

That’s because, according to his daft logic, shooting  the videomakers would count as “self defense,” because evidently someone posting a video on YouTube that you don’t like is equivalent to someone coming at you with a knife.

While challenging AVfM’s “bounty” — without actually defending the video in any way — apparently means that I support murder. Go figure.

Vincent Price as the Witchfinder General

But dwelling too much on the specifics of this one case is to miss the larger point. A Voice for Men has essentially set itself up as a sort of antifeminist Witchfinder General. In the 1968 cult film of that name, you may remember, the corrupt Witchfinder tested whether the accused were witches by lowering them into water; those who floated were judged guilty, and burned at the stake. Those who sank were innocent, but dead.

Paul Elam and his sidekick John have a similar approach. They intend to do feminists harm, to “fuck their shit up,” regardless of what they’ve done or said. None of those who have been placed in the Register-Her “registry” as “bigots” deserve to be smeared or harassed (or put on the phony “registry” in the first place). But if you look at what they are ostensibly there for, well, you’ll discover that it matters not at all to Elam whether they sink or float. The point is to harass feminists; almost any excuse will do.

One of those on the “registry,” a radical feminist who posts online as Vliet Tiptree , has indeed said some fairly vile things about the male gender; she is the only one who might conceivably be described as a “bigot.” But others are there on trumped up “charges” based on highly tendentious readings of some of their writing; it’s clear that they’ve been targeted mainly because they have been publicly critical of the men’s rights movement.

Meanwhile, another of the alleged feminist bigots is not a feminist at all, but rather a traditional-minded “mom blogger” who aroused Elam’s fury by saying that she didn’t want male daycare volunteers taking her daughter to the bathroom, and for suggesting (incorrectly) that men make up 99% of abusers. (She has since apologized, but remains on the “registry.”)

And one recent candidate for inclusion, a feminist blogger whom Elam has pledged to “stalk,” seems to have made it on Elam’s naughty list simply because she has helped to highlight how pervasive harassment of women and feminists is online. Complain about harassment; get harassed. But Elam’s “critiques” of her are all suspiciously vague. It’s not clear if he has read even a single one of her blog posts. Nonetheless, he promises her that

by the time we are done you will wax nostalgic over the days when all you had to deal with was someone expressing a desire to fuck you up your shopworn ass.

In a post from some months back, Elam offered a similarly psychosexually charged justification for his campaign to “Fuck Their Shit Up.” Directly addressing the “feminazi scumbags reading this right now,” he declared:

I am not going to stop.  You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage.  I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.

Let’s repeat that last bit for emphasis:

the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.

Does anyone still doubt that the aim of A Voice for Men and Register-Her.com in publishing personal information of their enemies is to intimidate – indeed, to terrorize?

Does anyone still doubt that their campaign is driven by hate?

Does anyone still doubt that they don’t give a shit if their actions cause someone to be physically assaulted or even killed?

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Posted on November 23, 2011, in antifeminism, creepy, hypocrisy, misandry, misogyny, MRA, paul elam, rape, rapey, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 165 Comments.

  1. My feelings about the issue Spearhafoc brought up: I think that telling someone you think they’ve crossed the moral event horizon is a bad way of getting them to ever be willing to see your point of view.

    ithiliana:

    GJDJ: So, one feminist blog screwed up, showing again why this is wrong.

    But the point is they did it, so obviously we’ve lost the moral high ground whether we claim to condmen it or not.

    If we really objected, we’d have used feminist telekineses to stop them from doing it in the first place.

    gjdj:

    I just condemned that a few posts up, “I agree with you all that the posting of identifying information is wrong.”

    If you recognize that we say posting information is wrong, and you say it’s wrong, what is the point you’re trying to make?

  2. @Hershele Ostropoler: If we really objected, we’d have used feminist telekineses to stop them from doing it in the first place.

    Hey! I didn’t get any note about feminist tekekinesis upgrade! Am I on the wrong sooper sekrit feminist conspiracy to kill all the men listserv or something?

  3. Ullere: The Woman’s Room is a piece of fiction. It’s no more a statement of the author’s personal views than any other work of fiction.

  4. In the 2011 election the bnp increased their share of the national vote by +1.2% which sounds small, but in the previous election the BNP had gained only 0.7% of the vote, which means the more than doubled their support over the course of 4 years.

    I presume this is a typo, and you meant to say they increased their percentage of the vote to 1.2 percent. Because as you wrote it, they had an increase of 1.2 percent, which would be negligible.

    Even at that, unless the gains continue, it’s not a significant number.

  5. gjdj: Ask yourself honestly – who would you see as the bad guys in this situation? I’m confident that you would see the video as vile and the response of the feminist organization as either justified or several orders of magnitude less bad than the original video.

    The people who preached retaliation at the people who made the video. Reversing the genders doesn’t change the nature of the offense.

    And the “SCUM group” you are talking about aren’t members of some radical fringe group of man-haters who think men ought to be killed, but actors, in a play, which (it seems) was much more subtle and nuanced than the publicity stunt they pulled (and which lots of feminists have said was over the top). So tell me again why they need to be called out for engaging in (as you said) fictional violence, while you are making a defense for people calling for real violence?

  6. “And for the love of little green apples, can you fools please pick something from recent times to harp on and use as proof of The Great Evil of Feminism? The Women’s Room was written almost 40 damn years ago. ”

    On another thread I asked him for an example of a current feminist saying something and he gave me Ti-Grace Atkinson. The woman is 73 years old, and her most notable publication was released in 1974.

    I guess that would be current if you mean in geological terms…

    Obvious troll is far more obvious than he realizes.

  7. Despite the overall suckitude of Torchwood…

    Blasphemy! I will have to begin a feminist luftwaffe against you!*

    *(I have little doubt that line will be quoted by MRAs somewhere as evidence feminists are Nazis)

  8. The video was staged by anti-feminists themselves as a scare tactic and a way to shame feminists. The video was staged by misogynists out to degrade the reputation of feminists.

  9. ‘My post was simply pointing out that godwins law if very common among groups who have a named enemy. In this case the MRA’s who name feminism the enemy. The marilyn french quote was appropriate as it names men the enemy and names them nazis. ‘

    ‘The Woman’s Room is a piece of fiction. It’s no more a statement of the author’s personal views than any other work of fiction.’

    I suppose it’s vaguely inappropriate to quote my own posts in response, by please read.

  10. No, the argument that it’s a fictional character speaking still stands. Even if you “were simply pointing out” that it names men the enemy, you’re still comparing a character in a novel to real life mras.

    May I ask you a question? Who are some top contemporary feminists right now, as we speak?

  11. DSC: Blasphemy! I will have to begin a feminist luftwaffe against you!*

    *(I have little doubt that line will be quoted by MRAs somewhere as evidence feminists are Nazis)

    Well, Children of Earth WAS good, and season 2 had it’s moments, but dangit, I gotta admit that it’s my undying love for Capt. Jack that keeps me watching through a lot of well… errr… suckitude?

    BRING ON THE LUFTWAFFE, WE SHALL RETREAT TO THE WHOVIAN BUNKERS! OUR LIFE OF PROCESSED FOODS, NO FRESH AIR, AND DVDS SHALL BE SO SIMILAR TO THE LIFE WE LIVED ABOVEGROUND WE SHALL NOT EVEN NOTICE!

  12. Ullere: I suppose it’s vaguely inappropriate to quote my own posts in response, by please read.

    It’s appropriate, it’s just not apropos.

    You presented a fictional event as if it were some illuminating truth of feminism.

    Either you didn’t know it was fictional, in which case you were ignorant, or you did, in which case you were being dishonest.

    But it no more reflects the “truth” of feminism than a quotation of Humbert Humbert = Nabokov’s views on teenaged girls.

    To pretend that you weren’t making such a point (that this is some truth about feminism) and that it’s being fiction changes nothing, is to double down on being ignorant, or dishonest.

    In either case, this argument you are making is dishonest on it’s face.

  13. I don’t understand why you get your panties tied up in a knot over vigilante justice. I mean, when women use vigilante justice we justify it by being “understanding” of what she’s going through and so on. Since the thing that we want is equality, and since we’re unwilling to hold women up to a higher standard, we have to provide the same justifications for men who resort to vigilante justice. It’s really not that hard to understand!

  14. Feminism has been telling men who and what to be for 50 years and these men in the blog-o-sphere are sick and tired of it. This is what happens when feminism represses dissent for decades. It bursts out in the fury of human will-to-power. Feminists wouldn’t be getting so much grief if they didn’t try to shove down their throats who or what they are and how they are supposed to be as human beings. You can try to fight it all you want but it’s not going away. Sorry.

  15. “Feminism has been telling men who and what to be for 50 years and these men in the blog-o-sphere are sick and tired of”

    Yes, threaten to kill and rape women and tell yourself you’re the better person. You MRAs are seriously disturbed.

  16. And you MRAs can cut the bullshit. You can stop pretending you’re upset with misandrist depictions in pop culture or the way custody battles are waged and admit you just want see women suffer.

  17. I don’t understand why you get your panties tied up in a knot over vigilante justice. I mean, when women use vigilante justice we justify it by being “understanding” of what she’s going through and so on.

    And if you’d been systematically physically abused by a woman, instead of seeing a fictional video posted online, you’d sort of have a point!

    Feminism has been telling men who and what to be for 50 years and these men in the blog-o-sphere are sick and tired of it.

    Yeah, you’re so brave to hate women. That’s a novel thing that no one has ever dared to do before.

    …For the record, what exactly have we been telling men to do? Other than “don’t assault us” and “let us have the same jobs you do” (neither of which we’ve totally gotten, actually), I don’t recall feminism issuing orders that men had to do 10 pushups whenever a woman asks, or whatever the hell.

  18. Be nice to gay people, dammit! And bathe every once and a while! And have morals! And think of me as a person! *glowers*

  19. I see, the video isnt the problem, the problem is the people pointing out that the video is a problem…

  20. On the other hand, how many examples have we seen of armchair investigators attempting to track down the personal details of a woman they don’t like?

    Interesting. It reminds me of anti-vaxxers who attempt to “out” Orac of Respectful Insolence, and who one time started an email campaign in an attempt to get him fired. I’ve never heard of any pro-vaxxers doing anything remotely similar.

  21. I see, the video isnt the problem,

    Seeing as it’s just an ad for a production of the SCUM Manifesto, and the play is, by all accounts, quite nuanced and not really about killing men, yeah, it isn’t. Moron.

    the problem is the people pointing out that the video is a problem…

    No, the problem is the people who want to commit violence. Illiterate moron.

  22. One of those on the “registry,” a radical feminist who posts online as Vliet Tiptree , has indeed said some fairly vile things about the male gender; she is the only one who actually deserves the “bigot” label.

    And? So she deserves to be up there? Deserves to be harassed?

  23. kurukurushoujo:

    So she deserves to be up there? Deserves to be harassed?

    Absolutely not. That’s why I said earlier in the piece that:

    None of those who have been placed in the Register-Her “registry” as “bigots” deserve to be smeared or harassed.

    I’m going to reword both to make absolutely clear what I mean.

  24. Moderated already, and I just got here.

  25. Uh, Daisy, everyone is moderated the first time they post here. Once I let them through, they can post all they want.

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