100% Mathmatically Accurate! Manosphere blogger Dalrock on slut-shaming
"Kids Love it!" Another claim that is not 100% accurate.
The director of the first Human Centipede film – the one about a psychopathic doctor who sews three unwilling and unwitting captives together mouth-to-anus to make a sort of “centipede” — proudly declared that his film was “100% medically accurate.” That is, he found a doctor who was willing to say that if one were indeed to create such a centipede, the second and third segments (i.e., people) would be able to survive, provided that you supplemented their rather dismal diet with IV drips to give them the nutrition they were lacking.
This dubious claim to 100% accuracy came to mind today as I perused a post by the blogger who calls himself Dalrock, a manospherian nitwit with a penchant for pseudoscientific defenses of old-fashioned misogyny. In a post with the whimsical title “We are trapped on Slut Island and Traditional Conservatives are our Gilligan,” Dalrock argues that the best “solution” to out-of-wedlock births is some good old-fashioned slut shaming.
Here’s how he breaks down the (imaginary) numbers in a post that is “100% mathematically accurate” – which is to say, not accurate at all:
Assume we are starting off with 100 sluts and 30 alphas/players. The sluts are happily riding on the alpha carousel. Now we introduce slut shaming. It isn’t fully effective of course, but it manages to convince 15 of the would be sluts not to be sluts after all. This means an additional 15 women are again potentially suitable for marriage. This directly translates into fewer fatherless children. This also makes the next round of slut shaming easier. Instead of having 99 peers eagerly cheering her on her ride, each slut now has 15 happily married women shaming her and only 84 other sluts encouraging her. After the next round this becomes 30 happily married women shaming the sluts, and only 69 other sluts cheering them on, and so on. This process continues until all but the most die hard sluts are off the carousel. You will never discourage them all, but you can do a world better than we are doing today.
Why not shame the fathers as well, while we’re at it? Dalrock explains that this just doesn’t make good mathematical sense:
Start with the same base assumption of 100 sluts and 30 players. Now apply shame to the players. Unfortunately shame is less effective on players than it is on sluts, so instead of discouraging 15% of them (4.5) in the first round, it only discourages three of them. No problem!, says the Gilligan [the social conservative], at least there are now three fewer sluts now that three of the evil alphas have been shamed away, and all without creating any unhappy sluts! But unfortunately it doesn’t work that way. The remaining 27 players are more than happy to service the extra sluts. They are quite maddeningly actually delighted with the new situation. Even worse, the next round of player shaming is even less effective than the first. This time only 2 players are discouraged, and one of the other 3 realizes that his player peers are picking up the slack anyway and reopens for business. This means in net there are still 26 players, more than enough to handle all of the sluts you can throw at them.
Well, there’s no arguing with that!
Seriously, there’s no arguing with that, because it is an imaginary construct with only the most tenuous connection with how things work in the real world. “But … MATH!” doesn’t really work as an argument here, since human beings don’t actually behave according to simplistic mathematical formulas.
Film critic note: While the first Human Centipede film offered little more than a workmanlike treatment of a fantastical idea, the recently released sequel, which details the attempts of a deranged Human Centipede superfan to take human-centipeding to the next level, is actually sort of brilliant. If you like that sort of thing.
Posted on November 19, 2011, in antifeminism, bad boys, crackpottery, evil women, misogyny, patriarchy, precious bodily fluids, reactionary bullshit, sex, shaming tactics, sluts, thug-lovers. Bookmark the permalink. 1,285 Comments.
(Yup. Like a troll, I couldn’t stick the flounce. Now y’all have me googling stuff about pregnancy!)
@Joanna
“A fetus is not a human. It is a fetus >.>”
Oh do tell? When do you graciously grant little johnny fetus, “living status?” Shall we leave it up to Big Daddy to say at what particular moment in time your concience is clear?
When does Big Daddy grant “life” to his children? 12 weeks, 16 weeks, 24 weeks, birth? What is that magic number? I’m sure you must know. Or does “life” vary from State to State, Nation to Nation? Clue in the old slave.
NWO, if you just take anything a feminist says with a bucket of salt, why bother talking to feminists at all? What are you expecting to accomplish by talking at people? Do you think anyone is going to take you seriously?
VoiP – Yes, it’s fascinating the way the State-lover dodges ;)
He won’t answer me, either *pout*
Clearly he could.
When it no longer relies on another creature’s actual body to survive; birth. If you could see past your own stupidity, you would realize these aren’t hard questions, milkboy.
It’s a boy! (Of course it’s a boy; if it were a girl NWO would’ve tried to fuck it already.)
Maybe I make him pouty because I’m Christian (Russian Orthodox), like he claims to be, and at one point I asked him how his attitudes toward half the human race square with the words of Christ. A ringing silence was my only answer, sigh…
“Oh do tell? When do you graciously grant little johnny fetus, “living status?” Shall we leave it up to Big Daddy to say at what particular moment in time your concience is clear?
It is precisely because this decision is so debatable between religions, ethical systems, doctors, and so very many people of good will that it CANNOT be a matter of State law, and only a private, medical matter.
“When does Big Daddy grant “life” to his children? 12 weeks, 16 weeks, 24 weeks, birth? What is that magic number? I’m sure you must know. Or does “life” vary from State to State, Nation to Nation? Clue in the old slave.”
The State and the Nation are barbaric concepts based on force. Concepts that you endorse wholeheartedly. You are the one who says that Big Daddy grants that life at conception. You are the one who says Big Daddy may kill the woman who decides she cannot give birth. You are the one who says Big Daddy may jail those who do not even approve of abortion, but do not want to pay taxes to a state that will kill woman who do. So when does Big Daddy grant freedom to it’s dissenters, NWO? What happens to me if I will not pay blood money to your death penalty State? You are not a slave, you are only a servant of the State, angry you are not a Master.
“When does Big Daddy grant “life” to his children? 12 weeks, 16 weeks, 24 weeks, birth? What is that magic number? I’m sure you must know. Or does “life” vary from State to State, Nation to Nation? Clue in the old slave.”
Before the end of the 1st trimester, I believe. After that the baby is too big to be aborted. I didn’t make the rules. That’s just biology =P
Birth is good. As I believe was pointed out much earlier in this very thread, those late-pregnancy complications will kill you very suddenly. Every option, including abortion, needs to be open.
What if a man wants his partner, who is also a man, to get an abortion, and both of their fathers and several brothers and uncles agree, and the fetus is female?
VoiP – Yes, it’s fascinating the way the State-lover dodges
Maybe I make him pouty because I’m Christian (Russian Orthodox), like he claims to be, and at one point I asked him how his attitudes toward half the human race square with the words of Christ. A ringing silence was my only answer, sigh…
But of course!
( Also, may I say I love the Orthodox church? If I go back to the religious side of things, I’m definitely thinking of sailing the seas and coming to the holy city of Byzantium. Just so you all know. ;) )
I meant after the end of the 1st trimester. >.<
Well I see plenty of mockery of the old slave yet no one answered my question of when Big Daddy has declared “life.” And whether it varies State to State and Nation to Nation.
C’mon, throw the old slave a bone. You’ll get to show how smart ya’ll are. The Question is simple, when does Big Daddy declare “life” has begun?
Can the grammar experts tell me if this is right? You can only abort a process, not an object. So, you can abort a pregnancy or a landing, but not a fetus or a plane.
Came for the flattery, stayed for the Yeats.
The World Health Organization estimated in 2009 that about 536,000 women a year die during pregnancy and childbirth.
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/hq/2009/WHO_RHR_09.06_eng.pdf
I’m having trouble finding comparable statistics for war deaths, but this group of scientists estimated that between 1955 and 2002, about 5.4 million people died from war and that between 1985 and 1994 about 378,000 died a year.
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/06/19/global.war.deaths.have.been.substantially.underestimated
The numbers are at the very least comparable in magnitude, and it looks like maternal mortality rates may be actually higher. Try again, NWO.
” The Question is simple, when does Big Daddy declare “life” has begun?”
I told you! After the 1st trimester! Pay attention!
3 people just answered your question Slavey, look up.
My Daddy said life begins after the kids leave home :)
Just for funsies, here’s some problems with “don’t kill a living person” as a standard.
What’s living? Bacteria are living. They eat, they breathe, they reproduce. And my immune system just killed a couple million or billion of them when I took a drink of water.
Okay, bacteria aren’t conscious. What’s conscious? We can’t actually know (really, I can’t know about anyone except myself), but cows sure act conscious. And I don’t see NWO railing against the injustice of hamburgers.
Okay, cows aren’t human. What’s human? My skin cells are human. I kill them by the bazillions every time I take a shower.
Okay, skin cells are human but not conscious. What’s human and conscious? Again, kind of a philosophical question, but I’d draw the bare minimum at “a person with a brain who reacts to stimuli.”
And that ought to mean that early first-trimester abortions, at least, are not killing a living person.
That’s correct, as far as I know, although there might be some debate on whether “abort a fetus” is acceptable based on common usage; the old prescriptionist/descriptionist thing.
Lots of people have answered the question, NWOslave. If you’re not even reading peoples’ responses, what’s the point of being here?
Also, because pregnancy is as dangerous as war, how about we turn around your mantra, NWO! If it’s women who are prodding men to go off and die in war for their bonbons and purses, it’s the men who are humping these poor women, demanding that they die for their sperm. They’re sitting around on the couch while women die in agony having their children!!!! What do you think about that, NWO?
NWOSlave: I don’t know when life begins. Sentience begins at the 24th week, when the fetus becomes capable of feeling pain; I assign no moral weight to the lives of creatures who are incapable of feeling pain.
NWO, several of us answered your question. The fact that we didn’t give the same answer just means that, despite your paranoid imaginings, there is no feminist hive-mind.
For example, I need to type on this computer and hit “post comment” to communicate to Joanna that I think her estimate of when a fetus gets “too big to abort” may be quite a few weeks off. Heck, the embryo doesn’t even become a fetus until the eighth week. Our minds are not one, so she doesn’t already know that I’m thinking that.
Well I see plenty of mockery of the old slave yet no one answered my question of when Big Daddy has declared “life.” And whether it varies State to State and Nation to Nation.”
You declared when Big Daddy declared life. I care not what some barbaric gang of thugs says about personhood and when it begins. I care not what some other gang of thugs says on the matter. You on the other hand, say that your Big Daddy State starts life at conception. You say that Big Daddy can kill women who don’t agree with you. You say that you can jail people who don’t think Big Daddy should say that and won’t give him money to enforce it.
{C’mon, throw the old slave a bone. You’ll get to show how smart ya’ll are. The Question is simple, when does Big Daddy declare “life” has begun?”
BIG DADDY DOESN’T. BIG DADDY DECLARES NOTHING. BIG DADDY DOESN’T EXIST cause we fired his kyriarchal illogical barbaric old ass! People own their own bodies. Some people are pro life, and work peacefully to ensure women choose not to abort. The State and force have nothing to do with it. Women can band together without fear of losing state funding or coming up against licensing laws and create health clinics for women. Women can band together and create adoption agencies for women. Hell, at some point in the future we can develop artificial womb technology that may make “giving a fetus up for adoption” a real possibility that makes both sides happy – Assuming it really ever was about the fetal life, and not about controlling the woman. So many things are possible, when you stop trying to control other people’s lives with force. Stop loving Big Daddy, NWO. Join us over here in Market Anarchy, where things are libertarian, and the future is bright and beautiful.
Cause right now you’re a STATIST.
@NWO: I am not a fan of abortion either. However, I don’t think we should outlaw it. Just like everything else in life, if you prohibit it, it just makes criminals very rich (e.g drug laws). Prohibiting anything doesn’t make it go away, it just prevents honest businesses from providing a safe product/service.
However, I see no problem with passing judgement on women that do get abortions. While they are free to live their life as they see fit without any interference from me, that doesn’t mean I have to blindly accept what they do. I only have to tolerate it. I can still disagree with it.
No, the asker is simple; the question makes no sense.
Ah, Brandon, taking his usual stance of “I’m relatively politically moderate, but I’m still working really hard on being an asshole.”
Ah well. I suppose that is your right.
“For example, I need to type on this computer and hit “post comment” to communicate to Joanna that I think her estimate of when a fetus gets “too big to abort” may be quite a few weeks off. Heck, the embryo doesn’t even become a fetus until the eighth week. Our minds are not one, so she doesn’t already know that I’m thinking that.”
Touche Seraph. My secondary school biology is a bit fuzzy it seems.
I’m really hoping the artificial womb technology happens soon, because this debate is really something that just needs to end.
Not this thread btw, but the ongoing abortion debate in the US and wherever else its happening.
“However, I see no problem with passing judgement on women that do get abortions. While they are free to live their life as they see fit without any interference from me, that doesn’t mean I have to blindly accept what they do. I only have to tolerate it. I can still disagree with it.”
That’s true. Seriously, go ahead. If you want.
So do you still think I have to pay taxes to a government in order to pay for a forced and stupid Baby Blood Taking Your Mom’s Probably A Whore test? Cause man, do I pass judgement on people with that idea in their heads.
@zhinxy
Please stop with your, “I’m anti-state” nonsense. You support killing, a right granted by the State. The State says you can kill. Rule #1, don’t kill. If you have to run to the State to cicumvent this rule, you’re an ally of the State. You demand the right to kill for any reason or no reason at all.
What a completely lame arguement you make to prove you’re not a sponser of the State. “Oh the State won’t let me kill after a certain week.” That has got to be the lamest arguement I’ve ever heard. I wanna kill on week 30 and the State won’t let me. Not killing innocent people is too much to ask. And feminists like yourself actually believe this is an infringement on your rights.
I like what Owly chooses to focus on. “Why hasn’t anyone answered my question about how all 192 of the earth’s states and their respective provinces define the beginning of life, if they even do?!?!?!”
Zhinxy, if you continue to conflate all government with his fascism, I am going to stop abiding by Ami’s request. I had, for some insane reason, thought it was supposed to be two way.
@Holly: No, it means that I am able to tolerate decisions that I personally find offensive and immoral (as long as those decisions don’t actually harm someone physically). I don’t have the right to order around people, but they also don’t have the right to order me around.
Sorry if I was unduly harsh in saying so; I didn’t mean for you to get caught up in my scorn of NWO.
The Question only arises because there are restrictions on abortion. If it was legal, we’d be talking about a journey of development, not a “moment” when life begins.
And apparently rule #1 (of what?) is don’t kill. Please turn off your immune system, Owly. Right this minute, it’s rule #1. Don’t even get me started on how it relates to Rule #34.
Brandon, I’ve asked NWO (who thinks abortion should be illegal) but he won’t answer, so I’ll ask you. What should my friend have done after her partial miscarriage which left (what would have become) the skull of the fetus in her tube?
@Bee
” No, the asker is simple; the question makes no sense.”
Big Daddy will clear your concience. He will tell you when “life” begins. Women did not murder, because Big Daddy has sanctioned when “life” began. Big Daddy is your deity.
No it doesn’t. If we lived in a stateless anarchy, abortion would be possible. The state’s only options are to use force to prevent abortion, or to back the hell off. (Or to help fund it, but that’ll be a cold day in hell…)
Which raises the question, does Rule #63 mean there’s a female version of NWOslave?
God NWO! You are the most whiny person I have ever come across. Have you paid attention to anything we’ve just said? Not wanting to raise a child in poverty, not wanting to die of unplanned pregnancy, not wanting to raise a child without a father etc. You asked when a fetus is considered “too human” to abort, and we answered. It is our right as human beings to decide what happens to our own body. A fetus does not have citizenship, ergo lack of human rights.
@zhinxy: While I think mandatory paternity testing will help everyone in the long run. I would be more than willing to move mandatory paternity testing to the family court system (i.e child support can not be established without a paternity test proving fatherhood).
Rutee – I am an Anarchist, and I am not ashamed of this. I’m not ashamed of this. I know that people of good will can disagree. When I speak of States as barbaric, I do believe this. I realize some statism is worse than others, and I am trying to needle NWO,
but I will say right now that as an anarchist, I believe that the State is an unnecessary evil. I believer that a monopoly upon the use of force is immmoral. I realize that most people do not agree. I realize that most feminsts do not agree. If you consider what I am doing here conflating “all government with his facism” – Then I cannot stop you from thinking as you do.
if you have serious moral issues with me, then I am not telling you to hold back.
If you are genuinely opposed to Anarchism, then I have no right to hold you back. Say what you’re thinking.
How is killing a right granted by the State? I would have thought you would need a State to STOP people from killing.
@Magpie: She can do whatever the hell she wants.
Are we quoting from “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof” now? I like Burl Ives as much as anyone, but come on.
OK Brandon, let me put it this way: what should she do that isn’t “offensive and immoral”. (And thank you for answering)
“While I think mandatory paternity testing will help everyone in the long run. I would be more than willing to move mandatory paternity testing to the family court system (i.e child support can not be established without a paternity test proving fatherhood).”
Oh, crap, not this again…
What if you want to support the child and it doesn’t match your DNA?
@Magpie: Umm…remove the skull.
@Magpie
“Brandon, I’ve asked NWO (who thinks abortion should be illegal) but he won’t answer, so I’ll ask you. What should my friend have done after her partial miscarriage which left (what would have become) the skull of the fetus in her tube?”
Why would I answer such a stupid question? Here’s one for you. There’s a car accident, a mans head has been decapitated? Waddya do with the skull? Sew it back onto the body? Play soccer with it? Make a lamp out of it?
Is this a contest to see who can ask the most ridiculous question? Well you win.
If you are so against killing, NWO, may I suggest you hold true to your beliefs, and stop eating.
Magpie, can you not ask that question *ever* again? Agh.
Magpie – Brandon is several different kinds of pain in the ass and he has his own misogynist paranoias, but he’s nowhere near the sheer depths of woman-hate and disconnection from reality that NWO reaches.
Ding ding ding! Spear, you win a coconut!
The idea that an embryo is exactly the same thing as a born human *depends* on the idea of the soul. Otherwise it makes no sense.
As Manboobz’s official Pregnancy Correspondent (28 weeks), I can set Owly straight on what pregnancy entails:
– 1st trimester: You will be exhausted all the time, throw up frequently (I was lucky and avoided this, but something like 75% of pregnant people do), have mood swings and weird food cravings/aversions. Also your boobs will really, really hurt. And you can’t tell people and explain why you never want to go out and don’t like red peppers anymore, because a sizeable percentage of pregnancies don’t make it past week 12, and it would really suck to have to explain to everyone you know that you had a miscarriage. Oh, and you have to have a bunch of medical tests, including a series of blood tests which requires the drawing of 5 vials of blood. And you have to pee all the time.
– 2nd trimester: You’ll have more energy and less vomiting, which is great. But your belly will grow alarmingly, forcing you to buy a bunch of new and expensive clothes (there are no discount maternity stores…grr), and you’ll suddenly be treated to lots of unwanted advice and belly-touching, some of it from total strangers. Suddenly you and your body are public property, and everyone and their dog has an opinion about whether or not you should eat that/carry that/ride a bicycle/go to rock shows/keep doing your job/wear sunscreen/participate in home renovations/really anything you can think of. (I had one woman tell me I shouldn’t drink soy milk, because the phytoestrogens in soy might feminize the baby if it’s a boy. I was like BITCH I NEED THE PROTEIN YOU’LL HAVE TO SHOW ME A REFERENCE THAT ISN’T FROM NATURAL NEWS IF YOU WANT ME TO BELIEVE THAT.) Your appetite becomes insatiable, but you have to control your calorie intake so you don’t get gestational diabetes and have a monster-sized baby, as well as making sure your diet has exactly the right balance of nutrients or else you are a horrible, horrible person. If you have allergies or catch a cold, it will be worse than normal, and you can’t take anything for it. If you have a mental illness you may have to go off your meds. If you get migraines you can’t take ibuprofen. If you get really sick, your care will be complicated by the fact that you’re pregnant. You still have to pee all the time, though the breast soreness gets better.
– 3rd trimester: I’m just starting this one, so I have no first-hand experience yet. From what I’ve heard, the fatigue comes back. You get even bigger and more awkward and your movements are even more constrained. All those criticisms and unwanted advice you got in your second trimester are redoubled. If it’s hot you will suffer the agonies of the damned. If it’s cold you won’t want to go outside for fear of slipping on the ice, because all of the sudden you’re really clumsy. The pace of medical appointments steps up; eventually you’re at the doctor/midwife once a week. You can’t make any plans or take on any commitments, because after week 36 or so the baby could come at any time. You can’t travel by plane or take long car trips; you have to weigh any travel plans extremely carefully, because you can’t be too far from medical attention. (For example, I may not be able to go to my inlaws’ place for Christmas, because they live on an island. Getting to the hospital in an emergency would require a ferry ride + at least a 30 minute drive.) You’re still ravenously hungry, but you can’t eat much at a sitting, because your belly is so enormous that it squishes your stomach. Sometimes the baby will kick you in the ribs, which is excruciatingly painful. You also might get sciatica and/or lower back pain. And you can’t take anything other than Tylenol for that either! Your boobs will become enormous and uncomfortable, and you might even outgrow those expensive maternity tops you bought. (This is starting to happen to me. I am so short my uterus has run out of upward room to expand, leaving it nowhere to go but forward. Right now I have about 4 shirts that I can wear out of the house, one of which is a man’s T-shirt with a picture of an octopus riding a bicycle on it.)
And then you give birth, which is dangerous (even in the First World) and extremely painful. Depending on where you give birth you may have an unnecessary caesarian and have to recover from surgery while learning to care for a newborn. If you breastfeed you’d better not do it in public, because BOOBS, but if you don’t breastfeed you’re a selfish bitch and a bad mother. And then you raise a child.
I don’t know if I would call pregnancy an active process, in that I am not literally making the child with my own hands; but it isn’t exactly a passive one either. It is most certainly *not* just going on as normal for 9 months. I’ve had a very easy pregnancy, and I have had to make a huge number of decisions, adjustments to my lifestyle, and accomodations to my new (and decreased) capacities to do physical work. I’m happy to do it, because this is a wanted and planned pregnancy. If it weren’t a wanted pregnancy and I couldn’t terminate it, I wouldn’t be so happy. And I probably would not be so diligent in making sure I got enough protein, avoided paint fumes, and I certainly wouldn’t have stopped biking a month ago.
But Owly doesn’t care, I know. In order to care he would have to a) believe that women are people and b) be willing to listen to one, and neither of those is true.
“If you are so against killing, NWO, may I suggest you hold true to your beliefs, and stop eating.”
If women were solely responsible for slaughtering livestock, you bet NWO would have a thing or two to say about that =D
@Magpie: There are already ways to do this via adoption. If a non-bio man wants to be the father, he can adopt the child. All he has to do is fill out the proper legal documents to establish legal guardianship and voila, he is legally the father. The point being is that he is willingly and consciously entering into that agreement.
NWO – You only want me to stop because it makes clear to you what a Statist you are. Now, most people are statists. But you on the other hand, scream like you aren’t. Bad, bad, hypocrite Big-Daddy loving NWO.
So, any answers? Military, Prisons, State Schools, Taxes, Courts? What does the government do BESIDES outlaw abortion. Borders? I’m opposed to “immigration” restrictions too. This is all getting expensive and very very big…
Sorry Molly, I know I’ve been hammering on it. If it’s any consolation, she went on to have two lovely children.
Anyway, NWO says abortion was the right thing to do, even though it would be illegal in NWO world.
Let’s talk about kittens for a bit, ay?
Because it was about abortion. In countries where abortion is or was absolutely illegal – Argentina comes to mind – women have died because doctors weren’t allowed to abort tubal – i.e., absolutely doomed, will-not-come-to-term – pregnancies. That is the inevitable result of the laws you want to make: dead women.
Brandon, “The condom broke” is not a moral failing.
Are there birth certificates? Driving licenses, official “papers?” – Does the goverment need a record of what “sex” you are it can hold over trans, intersex, and genderqueer people? You do seem to picture a very “natural” gender segregation, so I suppose it must… Is there a medical monopoly? Limited liability corporations?
What about contraception?
In other words, you have no intention of showing the same consideration you asked for on initially arriving, and that Ami requested on your behalf. Okay then. Because your horse shit about how horrible the state is, as an absolute, is growing grating and it’s nice to know I have no reason to treat your shallow, harmful views lightly any longer.
I mean really, treating warfare as though it were only a thing the state indulged in, and the ever so wonderful people never once supported it, and had to be coerced into it at all points, was grossly stupid, but not really so bad as trying to erase all the good done with state power, that anarchism simply can’t manage (off the top of my head, the construction and maintenance of the infrastructure required for your comfortable standard of living).