This whole “mocking misogyny” thing? Apparently we’re doing it all wrong. Over on Reddit’s Men’s Rights Subreddit, jmnzz has helpfully explained what misogyny is, and what it isn’t.
Misogyny: The hatred of women
Not misogyny: Bad taste jokes about rape/abuse/etc. Logic. Counterarguments. Disagreements. Harsh language. Saying cunt. Saying bitch. Calling women names. Being pro-life. Calling every woman who accuses a man of rape a liar.
Why are none of these things misogyny? Because you do not have to hate women to do any or all of these things. You might, but not everyone who does them hate women.
Seriously. What on earth is misogynist about calling all the fucking cunts who accuse men of rape of being goddamn lying bitches? When guys call women lying whores, they do it out of love.
But hey, in all seriousness, I have to give Maggie props here for actually raising the issue of misogyny in r/mensrights.
NOTE: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN …..
“Rape and abuse do not only affect women.”
You’re right they don’t. But if the punch line basically is “it’s funny because the woman got what she deserve (rape/abuse/…)” Then I’m pretty sure it is misogyny. If the punchline is “a man got rapped and it’s funny because that mean he’s not really a man” or “because rape don’t actually harm men” Then that’s misandry.
“[i]Logic. Counterarguments. Disagreements. Harsh language.[/i]
Obvious.”
Obvious, until you try to pass “women are physically weaker and men hunted the mammoths therefore women shouldn’t have any rights” as logic. Every hateful group have used a twisted form of logic to justify its ideology.
“Women are not an amorphous blob. Insulting one woman does not mean you have insulted womankind.”
It does if you use gender specific slur.
“Political views do not equate to hating women.”
Not every silly opinion are morally equal. If I say: “every divorced dad is an evil man who beat his wife and kids”, that’s not misandry?
Source, please.
@Brandon I would seriously question your numbers there…considering only a relatively small percentage of the male population is even in prison.
So, Brandon, does that make it OK that men rape, or does it mean that no women get raped, according to you?
FYI, no one here is diminishing prison rape (unlike the way MRAs diminish women being raped). I DO feel the need to spell that out to you.
And citation sorely needed.
A political view that holds that women aren’t people, but fetuses are, is misogynistic. This isn’t rocket science; either women get the right to bodily autonomy men do, or they aren’t people, and you are a misogynist.
Apparently it is not so cut-and-dry for all of the women who are pro-life. You actually sound a lot like a religious fanatic or a political extremist with your absolutes and dogma. I just thought you should know that. I apologize for the criticism, but I hope it is more productive than calling someone a twit because they disagree with what you believe.
Psst…FactFinder… women can be misogynistic too.
http://tpj.sagepub.com/content/80/4/379.short
Men in prison, a tiny percentage of the population, are only slightly more likely to be raped than women, slightly more than half of the population. Try again.
@Rutee: More men are raped by other men (prison rape) then men raping women…just an FYI.
Are we playing the “People are only violated when Brandon says they are!” game again? Because that’s the only way this statement make sense.
@hellkell, no, don’t that! We’re feminists, aka female supremacists therefore we must think every woman is perfect or at least better than any man,… Noooooooooo!
Psst…FactFinder… women can be misogynistic too.
I find it difficult to believe that all of the women who are against abortion oppose it purely out of hate for their own sex. That borders on a tinfoil-level conspiracy theory.
Or they’re misogynist. Because you know, that never happens, except for all the times it does.
Were you going to make a point, or attempt a poor ad hominem?
Notice, for the moron: I called you a twit *after* I explained how you were being wrong. The way you were wrong leaves only the conclusions that you are either dishonest or stupid, and I don’t assume dishonesty. Ad hominem is an insult that is meant to substitute for an argument. “You are like a religious fanatic or political extremist”, absent an actual argument, insinuating that I am wrong much like a religious fanatic or political extremist. I insulted you, but I also made an actual argument in addition to this; therefore, I only insulted you, rather than invoking an ad hominem argument.
I called you a twit because you said things that were clearly and obviously wrong to anyone with the most remote sense; for bonus points, you did it while claiming the mantle of logic and analysis. I also explained how
You don’t get to define what misogyny means, remember?
Oh, by the way, Factfinder, the guy who said
?
You haven’t actually responded to a single point I’ve made. Hop to it.
Or they’re misogynist[sic]. Because you know, that never happens, except for all the times it does.
Or they think that abortion is killing babies and would rather choose the lesser of two evils, which happens to be limiting a woman’s autonomy. I’m sure a lot of them would love for women to just choose when to get pregnant and by whom, but unplanned pregnancies happen and how we deal with them is a matter of political debate. You have your pet theories about the psychological motivations of pro-life women, but do not expect everyone else to share them.
I called you a twit because you said things that were clearly and obviously wrong to anyone with the most remote sense
No, you called me a twit to bait me. If you called me a twit to help me, then you would explain how what I said did not make sense, not how what I said was not in line with your dogma.
You haven’t actually responded to a single point I’ve made. Hop to it.
I don’t know how you do it but you type out small manifestos for me to “address.” I hate it when people do this, but I really do have a lot of work to do and not much time to do it. I may start scheduling the time I spend on the internet. If you do not agree with what someone says, perhaps you should try to see things from their view and understand where they are coming from before calling them stupid.
An argument that completely falls apart given society’s unwillingness to force organ donations; apparently the only organ that these women are okay with forcing the use of to save a life is a uterus.
Not if you believe women are people with an equal right to bodily autonomy as a man, or indeed, a corpse. If someone chooses not to donate their organs on death, there’s not even societal backlash. Yet we have people who think women can be forced to donate an organ. That seems uneven somehow.
I don’t have a theory about the psychological motivation of women who support pro-life initiatives; I have the evidence that they support ideas that hurt women and require women to have less freedom than men. They are misogynist. I don’t care about their motives.
Oh, we have a mindreader, do we? Quick, tell me what I’m thinking about.
Why in the 9 hells would you think I’m trying to help you? Oh, right, you’re stupid, that covers that.
Ah, so Brandon is conflating “men in prison” with “all men” for that statistic there?
Good to know!
Psst, Brandon, while the number is abysmally high, only 1/100 USian men are in prison. To get an accurate statistic for comparison you need the rape rate for the general population of men. RAINN has 1/33 men as victims of attempted or completed rape vs 1/6 women. But instances of date rape of men by women are probably highly under-counted, so who knows?
I say wait for Ozy to kick ass for about 10 years, raising rape awareness among men, and we’ll check back later, mmkay?
Fact finder, you have time to answer insults and explain why you lack of time but not to answer? You may want to redefine “time” to make sense of that one.
A: Then why are you here?
B:http://manboobz.com/2011/11/11/you-lying-bitches-wouldnt-know-misogyny-if-it-bit-you-on-your-ass/comment-page-2/#comment-80590
B2:
Look, you small-minded, arrogant buffoon, you’re not novel. I have heard your points of view before, and absent some sort of original thought that can actually challenge the points I’ve made I have no reason to change my mind now.
@Katz
I’ll give it a shot.
Got mit uns.
See also: Banality of Evil
FactFinder, as a woman who used to be anti-abortion (until I turned about 16), this was my reasoning:
– I identified more strongly with the fetus than the woman, as I was a child and the possibility of pregnancy seemed incredibly remote.
– I was strongly judgemental about sex (helloooooo Catholicism!) and believed that people who didn’t want to have babies just shouldn’t have sex. Did I mention I was a child?
– In spite of being theoretically informed of the facts of life, I did not really understand what a pregnancy entailed. If I knew about any of the dangers and rigours of pregnancy, I brushed them aside. I did not see why a woman should not be forced to undergo pregnancy because I refused to consider this.
– More crucially, I lacked empathy for any woman who found herself unwillingly pregnant, because I judged her to be a slut and a morally incompetent person. I could not put myself in her shoes because I knew that I, a non-slutty and morally competent person, would never find myself in that situation.
This list reveals at least two misogynistic attitudes: that women who have sex are of no value, and that women ought to have no sexual desires. The other elements are cultural (Catholicism and a generally conservative milieu) and a certain sense of superiority (I am better than those slutty slutty sluts). I feel I’ve mostly overcome the internalized misogyny and Catholicism, but I confess that I still have an overriding sense of my own awesomeness.
FactFinder, then why don’t those anti-choice women focus their efforts on policies that actually result in fewer abortions, such as better sex ed and increased access to birth control? The things they value and the laws they advocate don’t necessarily help fetuses/babies/children, but do all have in common making sex costly and dangerous for women.
At best, people who claim to care about saving babies and then make decisions directly counter to that claim are too stupid and ignorant to know better and at worst they are literally sacrificing the lives of those precious babies in the service of making life worse for women. If you prefer “stupid and ignorant” to “misogynistic” then go ahead and demonstrate that anti-choicers are more the former than the latter, and I’ll be happy to switch descriptors.
Oh Brandon! I have quite literally read better smut and dirty talk from a fanfic written by a 12-year-old. (Perhaps more damning, I’ve heard better from O’Reilly — you’re not even at the “loofah” level of kinky!)
Have we sent the trolls to My Immortal yet? I feel that we should.
Do I even want to ask what “My Immortal” is?