“Please Killl Yourselves”: MRAs respond to #mencallmethings
Well, that was … instructive. The Twitter hashtag extravaganza that is #mencallmethings is still going strong. But I think at this point it’s safe to say that it has basically served it’s purpose: to highlight the obnoxious, obscene, often threatening misogynist shit that women who express their opinions about almost anything on the internet get in their inboxes or in comments online on a regular basis. Women with feminist blogs who actually call out this kind of misogyny get this sort of abuse basically every day.
Sady Doyle of Tiger Beatdown, who started up this hashtag campaign, explained in an eloquent and angry blog post why she did it: to point out how absolutely routine this sort of shit is. When she started her blog, she really hadn’t anticipated the sheer volume of vicious shit she’d get:
I got targeted. With threats, with insults, with smear campaigns, with attempts to threaten my employment or credibility or just general ability to get through the day with a healthy attitude and a minimal amount of insult.
The intent of all this abuse is simple: to intimidate. When someone says to a woman online “I hope you get raped with a chainsaw,” the point is to get her to shut up. The person who posts this sort of violent shit, Doyle notes,
hopes that the next time you sit down to write, you’ll remember that yikesy chainsaw-rape thing and think, “you know? Maybe this isn’t such a great idea. Maybe I don’t need to say this. Maybe I’ll piss someone off, and maybe it will be more than I can handle, and you know, maybe my thoughts on this topic just ARE NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH for me to risk the headache/fear/irritation/distress/panic attack I know I will get.”
And then, when you say that aloud, they call you a whiny little girl who can’t handle the Internet. Because, of COURSE multiple chainsaw-rape comments aren’t a big deal! They’re just words! Sticks and stones! …
To you, my friends, I say: Fuck that noise. All of this matters. A hostile work environment matters. Being afraid of your own in-box matters. Deleting your blog because that’s the only way for you to have a normal, non-hate-filled life matters. “Accepting” that continual, virulent, hateful misogynist abuse is a pre-condition for being a lady who talks about thing, or for challenging sexism in any way, no matter who you are: That matters. And if you think we’re fragile, well. LET US COUNT THE WAYS we have hacked it, under conditions your pampered manly self just cannot imagine. LET US DEMONSTRATE FOR YOU the shit we wade through, every day, in order to talk about whether or not we liked that one “Community” episode or Lady GaGa album.
Naturally, critics of the whole hashtag campaign have done their best to minimize and dismiss this sort of routine harassment in exactly the ways that Doyle predicted they would.
The charming Ferdinand Bardamu of In Mala Fide responded to #mencallmethings with a bunch of obnoxious comments that conveniently proved basically every point Sady Doyle was trying to make with the hashtag in the first place. He started off with this bit of rapier wit:
He followed this up with a clumsy fat joke:
He continued on in this vein for awhile, so proud of his insightful critiques that he made a blog post about it.
Encouraged by Bardamu’s example, blogger PMAFT (Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Technology) announced a #MenCallMeThings Trolling Contest. The highlight of his own contributions to this contest:
Over on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, c0mputar offered slightly more coherent, if equally misguided, response.
The reality is that most of the “misogyny” they face is just criticism to their feminist viewpoints. I see this a lot when I confront feminists arguments, present my arguments, and get called a misogynist, amongst other things characterized by misandry. It happens on both sides …
Really now? Here are some actual examples of comments posted on #mencallmethings (taken from a comment from Shaenon in the discussion here).
here’s some to start: ‘I’ll rape your mum, faggot fuck’ “I’ll come to your house and kill you”
#mencallmethings, impersonate me on FB, & make disgusting sexual comments, post my name & # when I helped organize Slutwalk
cunt, whore, ugly, disgusting, cold, feminazi, shut the fuck up bitch, manipulative, crazy, playing the victim, sociopath
Bitch, whore, being sensitive, little girl, dumb, subject of jokes involving physical and sexual assault.
Any variation on fat and/or ugly at this point just makes me yawn.
I’ve had so many emails and messages telling me I deserve a beating, I don’t even keep track any longer.
“13? Judging by the size of your titties, I’d of thought you were 18.”
(censored version) If you keep talking the way you do, you deserved to get raped.
My #mencallmethings moment – receiving an email consisting of 1600 lines plus of the same insult over and over. My crime? Being fat.
I’ve had so many guys tell me how good I must be in bed because I’m fat and therefor will do anyone
I usually get ‘sweetheart’ just before they dismiss my argument as being ‘stupid’. No counter argument.
Will not repeat the violence that’s been directed at me but this one made me laugh “Blubbering self-important herd animal.”
apparently I’m a lesbian… I was unaware until #mencallmethings.
I’M ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS AND I CANT EVEN JERK OFF CORRECTLY NOW & ITS BECAUSE OF WOMEN SO FUCK ALL YOU INFERIOR COWS
“You should have your tongue ripped out.”
I get sent one rape threat a month on average.
I was once told “get back in the kitchen you ugly bitch” for posting on a Linux board (can’t remember which one now)
Have you ever wanted someone to tell you that your genetalia should be stapled shut with bugs inside, start a blog
How about being choked to death during a forced blowjob? Start a feminist blog.
Not worth the effort to murder: the most recent example of what I had to delete off the blog when #mencallmethings
C0mputar, in his Reddit post, went on to offer another argument that seems to be a favorite of those trying to trivialize the abuse catalogued by the contributors to #mencallmethings:
In the end, veterans of the internet know there is no protected demographic. Everyone gets shit on, but if you make a point of belonging with a group, you get shit on even more, and more so the smaller you are. You know who gets shit on more than feminists? MRAs.
Really? Some MRA types on Twitter tried to get a rival hashtag going: #womencallmethings. Needless to say, they didn’t have much to work with.
One Man Boobz non-fan — whom I banned for his repeated comments about anal rape — tried to post a sarcastic little comment here last night dismissing #mencallmethings on similar grounds. Here’s a screenshot from my wordpress account, with his identifying data erased:
Let’s just, for contrast, take a look at the previous comment he tried to post here:
Another day, another “hope you get raped” comment.
Ironically, though I’m pretty thoroughly disliked across the manosphere, I actually get a lot less of this sort of abuse than most reasonably well-known feminist bloggers who happen to be non-dudes. Oh, sure, I get called a “traitor” and a “mangina,” and once in a while someone points out that I’m, you know, fat, but when it comes to the really nasty shit, the abusive commenters and emailers seem to much prefer going after women. This may be because they are misogynistic assholes. That’s just a theory, though.
Posted on November 8, 2011, in antifeminism, bullying, creepy, douchebaggery, manginas, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, PUA, rape, rapey, sexual harassment, threats, violence against men/women. Bookmark the permalink. 722 Comments.
I’ve never had a blog, but when I was in grad school, I used to post on a few of the Usenet newsgroups on women and feminism. I was fairly vocal and I made some enemies on those newsgroups. One morning, I opened my inbox and found about thirty nasty emails. It turned out that someone had faked a post pretending to be me, saying how much I hated men, all men deserved to die, etc. Anyone could tell from the headings of the post that it wasn’t from my university account that I normally posted from, but the men who had emailed me hadn’t checked. I think two of them apologized for their emails. Rather than apologies, it turned into a big debate of how I either had faked it myself or how although someone else had faked the post, the comments in the post were what I really thought, but was too chicken to post, so I deserved no sympathy for the fake post.
Some of the men told me that they were going to contact my university to complain of my “hate speech.” I figured I’d eventually be cleared since the post was an obvious fake, but it wasn’t something I wanted to have to deal with. It didn’t stop me from posting again, but I posted a lot less and was much more careful writing my posts. So, it didn’t silence me completely, but it did to some degree. It also taught me not to comment or post from an “official” account.
@Bionicmommy
I see a Jason Statham franchise in this…
At times, I feel very out of step here. I know nothing about hockey and have no desire to, and I like Brussels sprouts even when they’ve been cooked to death.
Don’t feel bad, Wisteria. Feminist hockey nuts are rare creatures, that’s why both of us in this case are going “wait, really?”.
I’m standing my ground on the brussel sprouts, though. They’re quite cute when they’re on the stem, but in terms of taste they’re evil little bundles of why does my aunt make me eat this horrible stuff.
Huh? Ashley was on her knees…what did I miss?
Video or it didn’t happen.
o_O Um, thank you for the food for thought, DKM. Strangely, I see few advantages in having father 1 or father 2 choose me a husband. I suspect I would be even less enthused if I was attracted to women exclusively.
But, wait, does the man in the pair get to accept or reject potential wives? Because if not, a fine upstanding gent like you might end up with a totally unfluffy feminist like me! All educated and opinionated and wanting a career and other gross things like that! Plus there’s my quite unwifely habit of having sex with my boyfriend–you know, the guy I’m with because we love and respect each other.
Tsk tsk, Brandon, don’t you have computers that you need to be fixing during the day?
(Yes, I realise that he’s full of shit.)
Sex isn’t that rare or impressive a thing for human beings to do, honey.
Aw, look, he thinks we’re in awe that he’s a big boy!
His wife is Jewish, his father was Jewish, and he’s received anti-Jewish slurs before (maybe from you). Which I know you know, because you stalk his blog.
Wisteria–November 9, 2011@ 3:02pm–
Yes, Wisteria, the proposed groom would indeed have the option of refusing the offered bride-to-be. I don’t know what you would do if your taste ran to women, although the legalization of gay “marriage” might help you here.
I would think that the genetic father would have first dibs on whom his daughter marries, but a stepfather–depending on how involved the birth father was in her life, etc–may be involved too. I suspect that there is room for a number of answers to your question here. depending on cmmunity standards.
As far as loving a boyfriend after you are safely married, I think that would fall under the “adultery” ban, and unfortunately, would have to be ‘verboten’.
As far as your being an educated ‘feminist’, with career ambitions outside the home, I would think that your mother, grandmothers, and older women would have set you (and your sisters) straight about that foolishness, although nowadays, even women subject to arranged marriages seem to be finding opportunities in female-specific careers!
The times, they are a-changin’- I guess…
In any event, I should think that you (and other women privy to such arrangements) would be reliably protected from rape or sexual harassment.on the streets and in public!
I actually wouldn’t mind excessively having my father pick my life partner, mostly because he would leave the decision to me, because he is less of a fuckhead than Meller. He would tell me to get married to my best friend and someone whom I like spending time with and that hotness fades with age but sparkling conversation never does. I generally value his opinion (and my mom’s) about people to date; they’ve been married for twenty years, they must know something. :)
Unfortunately, a couple of important dealbreakers (I’m poly and kinky and need someone who’s okay with my pansexuality, genderblogging, genderqueer fabulosity and crazy) he doesn’t know about, which makes his picking my partner non-optimal.
I really have little to say to that, David, beyond… hurrk. But as a point of clarification, there is a Wisteria and a Viscaria on this blog. Wisteria was here first, and had I noticed hir commenting here before I began commenting myself I would have chosen a different pseudonym. Sorry Wisteria, and sorry anyone else who has been confused.
Ozy, isn’t it nice having parents who think you’re a capable, thinking adult? *High five*
When I was little my dad used to joke that if we lived in the Middle Ages he would have married me off to a rich man twice my age in exchange for a bunch of cows. “How many cows do you think I would get?” he’d ask. And I would be like “TWENTY” and he’d be like “for my little girl, I don’t think I could go any lower than thirty.”
DKM, unfortunately, does not seem to regard this as a silly joke.
Ozy – Seriously! All these (are they even MRAs at this point? they’re more just regular misogynists) “women should let men decide everything” trolls have forgotten that the vast majority of men don’t want to decide.
If my life decisions were left up to my father, my boyfriend, or really any other man that I’m close to, I think that a combination of decency and laziness would immediately lead them to go “my decision is whatever her decision is.”
My mistake; apologies to all concerned!
DKM
I checked and Schwyzer isn’t Jewish, he’s Christian. It’s plastered all over his blog. Nice try, dumbass.
Hugo had a post recently about how he’s not Jewish, but does get tons of anti-Semitic harassment–he might have even said it’s the most common type he gets–because racists see his name and assume he’s Jewish. In fact, I’m pretty sure you linked to that post, because those are the only times I usually read Hugo’s blog.
Thank you for your apology, DKM. (It is for everything, right?)
It’s good to see change. :)
I don’t stalk Schwyzer’s blog, I really have no idea where you got that notion. I visit it semi-regularly, and no, I had no idea what his religion was.
I forgot about the anti-Semitic slur from some guy who I’ve said many times was not me and whose IP address Futrelle has checked against mine and found a non-match. Still, I hardly think one insult (clearly, it was worse than it typical because he made a posted about it) is indicative of much of anything.
And you’re all avoiding the issue, which is that male feminists get attacked just as much, maybe more. Doesn’t fit in with your victim fetish worldview, I guess.
Meller: Arranged marriages, legislating the behavior of consenting adults…
Such a libertarian you are.
The tyranny you think of as freedom…
Well, “arranged marriages” in that they are arranged for the woman (or girl). Lots of freedom for the male involved!
Apparently arranged lesbian marriages are cool, but I’m not sure how the choosing vs. arranging would work.
I don’t stalk Schwyzer’s blog, I really have no idea where you got that notion.
Maybe because we’ve seen oh, anything you’ve written about him in the forums? You certainly have a bug up your butt about him.
male feminists get attacked just as much, maybe more
[citation needed]
I don’t see any male feminists saying this. I see male feminists saying the opposite.
MRAL: You may attack male feminists more (this may be a bit of jealousy; they are getting some, and you ain’t) but even at that you attack women more.
And the ways in which you attack me (calling me an asshole, pretending I am saying things I’m not, or that I’m being some sort of poser), compared to the ways in which you attack women (using their physiognomy as insult), is telling.
You think women are worth less than men, and you aren’t afraid to them, individually, or as a class, that you think this. Men, however, you tailor your anger toward. Even in your hatreds you treat women worse than you treat men.
Correction: Afraid to to tell them.
Huh? I was on my knees… what’d I miss?
It’s telling that MRAL’s responses to intimations of antisemitism are
1. the target isn’t Jewish, and
2. the specific incident he was accused of was proven not to be him.
Yeah, I barely get attacked at all. The worst I’ve been called is a Grammar Nazi.
I haven’t even gotten “mangina” yet.
Haha, I’ve gotten “mangina.”
Why yes, anonytroll, you’re very perceptive…
I think I’ve won with repeated assertions that I was a heterophobic racist 9-11 mangina shill… Ahh, good times.
I seem to not get flamed all that much, actually. My blog and YouTube account are both relatively unharmed.
I wanna be called a mangina! :( I mean, that slur would, in fact, be completely accurate!
And you’re all avoiding the issue, which is that male feminists get attacked just as much, maybe more.
Well ONE male feminist gets attacked just as much, maybe more. And by you xD
I wanna be called… something interesting xD
All I get are vile and cruel and “you talk funny!” and stuff xD
I have noticed that there is less hate directed at Mr. Futrelle for doing his thing, than there is towards us women folk.
Oh, the “misogynists get laid and get girlfriends” thing confuses me… I thought MRAs were constantly complaining that they didn’t, that only the FUCK ALPHAS, manginas and others who worship women get laid… o_O
But it’s common knowledge that all feminists go for assholes. That’s why these guys are assholes, to try and get laid.
How’s that working out for them?
Apparently, Brandon is doing well =P
Can’t you be an asshole without being a misogynist? xD
Like… Yankee fans are assholes… just by being Yankee fans… but presumably most of them aren’t misogynists xD
New rule! “Girls like those FUCK ALPHA Yankee FUCK fans”
I think if you’re an asshole, you’re and everythingist.
@Joanna: I am doing well. Thanks for asking. ;)
BTW, this pretty much sums up most of the reasons why men are GTOW:
aleknovy.com/2010/01/17/why-men-are-increasingly-prefering-videos-games-over-dating-mating-and-courtship/
P.S: It has nothing to do with how “strong” or “independent” you are. ;)
MRAL, this whole Twitter thing has gotten me curious about the mindset of dedicated online harassers, so maybe, being one of those people, you could help me out. (And don’t say you’re not. In addition to sending threatening emails to Schwyzer, you recently tried to spam the blog of at least one of the regulars here.)
What do you hope to get out of this behavior? Are you trying to scare your target? Make them angry? Do you want them to call you out in public and give you attention, or do you prefer them to take it silently? Are you hoping that if you send enough emails to Hugo Schwyzer, he’ll slap himself on the forehead and say, “Omigosh, he’s right! Feminism is a hate movement and I’m a FUCK mangina alpha FUCK! Reasoned arguments never got through to me, but the threats in this slur-riddled hate screed have shown me the light!”
Or do you not think about the human being on the other end of your missives at all? Is it like a video game you can never win?
I’m honestly curious. I just don’t get how this is enjoyable at all.
Ashley is a doll! I knew it!
Oh, more “women are ‘overpriced’ pains in the asses” thing again. We’ve seen it Brandon, please try harder.
But hey, GYOW, no one here’s gonna slow your roll out the door.
Personally, I go for a healthy balance between sex and video games. Keeps things interesting.
If some men want to GTOW, I wish they’d get on with it, instead of using it as some sort of threat. Go, already. There’s lots of men out there who don’t think relationships are a waste of time, you really won’t be missed.
They can play with their toys all they like. Meanwhile, the whole world is revolving without them. This is one of my fave Oatmeal comics XD
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming
@Joanna: Nope…nice try though
@HellKell: Well obviously you don’t have the capacity for introspection.
Also, I am not a MGTOW. I can just understand why they feel the way they do. You know, that whole “relating” and “empathy” thing you claim I don’t have.
It’s really depressing to think that some men just hate socializing with women and going on dates with us, and view it as nothing but the “cost” of getting in a relationship.
If someone doesn’t enjoy going out with me, I don’t want to go out with them! That’s not pickiness, it’s mercy.
I hope these guys know that “we both enjoyed the date and we both enjoyed the sex” relationships do exist.
Oh man, I’ve always wanted to go sky-diving and have freaky sex… Do I have to become a gamer first? Or…
Hmm… should go find some peeps that are interested in the above two items… but that involves work. *ponders*
Brandon– That post is hilarious!
So the real reasons men GTOW are:
1. Women’s “price” is too high, whatever that means (he complains a lot about women wanting men to “jump through hoops” without giving any actual examples)
2. Women sometimes have negative emotions, whereas RealDolls and video games never have emotions at all
3. Women don’t work hard enough to be perfect and pleasing in every way
4. Women are only good for sex, but getting a woman to have sex with you is really, really hard, so it’s better to give up and masturbate
Omigosh, everyone has to go look at this! He has math!
@Joanna: That comic only works if the wife/girlfriend/lover is more interesting than playing a video game.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA. Brandon, please. This the hill you wanna die on trying to show empathy?
Fuck you.
Brandon, I feel sorry for the guys who can’t find anyone more interesting than a video game. I mean, pwning n00bs is all well and good. But it gets a bit tiresome after a while. Hanging out with real people breaks up the monotony a bit.
Kirby – I want to go skydiving and have freaky sex too!
This means that you have to claim to hate the skydiving and account for it purely as a cost. “I had to jump out of a plane for this chick before she’d put out! Women are so unreasonable.”
(But don’t worry, I have to do the same for the sex. What a lovely way to think about your life. Yuck.)
Kirby, freaky sex while sky diving? Hmm…
@Brandon:
So the real question is this. Is Ashley more interesting than trolling on a board where nobody takes you seriously?
@Shaenon: Nice job missing the point. The main point of that article is effort vs reward. Playing video games and hanging out with your buddies takes far less effort and energy then going out trying to meet women at bars, clubs, etc…
I can see why a lot of men would just say “fuck it” and call up a few friends to play Halo than try and maneuver through the dating scene.
I don’t feel sorry for these guys, Brandon, because they can just go do their thing and I’ll do mine. It’s not my problem (or any other women’s) if they don’t want relationships or it’s too much work or whathefuckever. I just wish they’d go follow their bliss–be it silicone, Xbox, or their right hands–without all the fucking whinging.
@Joanna:
I believe sex while sky diving is already freaky… and also sounds awesome! I’m sure the logistics would be a little tricky, but oh the stories you could tell. ^_^
@Joanna: Why would you feel sorry for them? They made the choice to live a certain way.
Also, you can play video games with people and socialize just fine. Invite a bunch of friends over and play team deathmatch or whatever.
Brandon – It’s really sad that spending non-sex time with a woman is pure “effort” to you.
It seems like you’re missing out on a lot if you think that socialization, flirting, and dating are nothing but the price you pay.
@kirby
A friend of mine went sky diving. He said clouds are wet. Sex diving on a cloudy day might be a bit slippery.
@ Brandon: What Holly said. =)
You know what takes even less effort? Not whining about it on the internet.
I thought we had to feel sorry for them, in order to show our womanly empathy. Keep movin’ those goalposts, brandon.
@Holly: You might be intelligent, but there are tons of women out there that are completely vapid and boring. Thus dealing with them (even if it is just the first time meeting) can feel like “effort”
Simple solution, Brandon: hang with intelligent women =)
@hellkell: Who said you HAD to feel sorry for them? I certainly didn’t. You are moving your own goalposts.