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Image of “Whore Mary” spotted in tree by local MRA

“It’s a miracle!” an MRA spokesman told the press. “Praise the lord! Also, all women are complete parasitical whores roaming the landscape spreading VD like Johnny Appleseed and fucking men over.”

NOTE: Like the picture, this quote is also real. At least the  “complete parasitical whores roaming the landscape spreading VD like Johnny Appleseed and fucking men over” part of it, which I found in a heavily upvoted comment on The Spearhead.

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Posted on November 3, 2011, in $MONEY$, I am making a joke, misogyny, MRA, the spearhead. Bookmark the permalink. 159 Comments.

  1. NC4OM sounds like those annoying Born Again Pagans who always go on and on about the Burning Times and how their people’s ‘natural organic folk beliefs’ are superior to imperialist *Semitic* religions (wink wink, dog whistle) , except it’s Hinduism vs Islam rather than European paganism vs Christianity.

  2. I’m still trying to boggle at how I’m defending islam at all costs when my primary argument is “It’s only as bad as the competition”. That strikes me as a weak defense, at best.

    But it’s well to the left of “They have enslaved Southeast Asia for thousands of years–what do you mean the religion was founded in 600 AD? Time machines, people!” which appears to be NC4OM’s point.

    Trust me, Love, you don’t want to go tit for tat with me regarding Hindu philosophy, but ok I’ll bite. Where in any of the sat darshan does it say anything about caste, or any othere negative Asian cultural phenomena?

    That’s cute. If you are HINDU or Societal Contract, you’ll remember that I went here and have read these, as well as a semester long seminar on the Mahabharata. I may not know as much about Hinduism as someone who’s studied it more in-dept, but considering you think yoga is Hindu, I think I’ll do just fine.

    And what I said was this:

    I don’t think so; he’s been saying throughout that while Hinduism might have elements in it that are ethically problematic, like the caste system, they are not integral to Hindu philosophies

    This is, frankly, debatable. No, the central texts of the various darshans don’t have mentions of the caste system in them. But I question to what extent you can divorce the practice of Hinduism from those philosophical texts which, after all, were historically only available to a comparatively few people. Meanwhile, if you want to stick to texts alone, with no context whatsoever, the Rg Veda sure is sexist and violent, and the Mahabharata and the Ramayana are FULL of violence. The Ramayana is also sexist as fuck on top of that, and it’s been used as the justification for sati. Meanwhile, the Gita tells us that it’s OK to take the lead role in a war that will literally destroy an entire eon, as long as you love God hard enough while you’re doing it. Let’s talk texts, NC4OM. Bring it.

    But that wasn’t my only claim. I also said this:

    [NC4OM claims that] there’s something about Hinduism that makes it uniquely suited for assimilation by Westerners, so even if the caste system were integral to the religion we could more easily strip it away…

    As far as this claim goes, you are just flat wrong here. The reason you have for believing that Hinduism is uniquely assimilable is because all you look at is Hindu practices that have already been assimilated. Yoga isn’t Hinduism. It looks Western BECAUSE IT IS WESTERN.

    …than we could get rid of the negative aspects of Islam or Christianity which, I guess, suck as such

    And not only is this also just plain wrong, you’ve never even bothered to defend your claim. You just waggle your fingers and go “BOOOOO! EURABIA!” and expect us to get scared.

  3. I may not know as much about Hinduism as someone who’s studied it more in-dept, but considering you think yoga is Hindu, I think I’ll do just fine.

    SORRY: Modern yoga. Not this.

  4. No Cuntry 4 Old Men!

    “It is of course very unfortunate that this happened to southeast asians but there’s nothing we can do about that now.”

    “You really don’t know what you’re talking about. At all.”

    I know EXACTLY what I’m talking about, Doofus. You are the one that does not know the history of the entire south asian region. You didn’t even know that Cambodia and surrounding areas was Hindu. Now you want to shove Islamic imperialism under the rug, why? No idea. Maybe you have Muslim friends who feed you crap about the “religion of peace”.

    “I’m still trying to boggle at how I’m defending islam at all costs”

    see above.

    “when my primary argument is “It’s only as bad as the competition”.

    Buts its not “only as bad as the competition” thats my point.

    I don’t know why you think you all religions are the same or have the same negative aspects and same positive aspects. There are differences.

    Cassandra,

    “run around making stuff up to do so without pointing out that she is in fact making stuff up.”

    Bullfuckingshit. Name one thing I made up. You can do the research yourself and see if in 1999 foreigners were made to cover their heads publicly in saudi arabia. I was.

    I see that none of you know your history, either of south Asia BEFORE pre-Islamic imperialism or of Islam itself.

    And Rutee, nobody is buying that Islamic invaders didn’t kill any Hindus. Read some actual history.

    When you do, email me and we can discuss.

    As of now I’m I’m finished with you morons trying to tell a former south Asian Muslim what Islami is like AND what my south Asian culture was like before and after it.

    Go and check the map if you need to.

  5. If there does come a cultural and religious revolution in the West, I can only hope that it would be a Buddhist or Hindu one, for the sake of freedom alone.

    also, if a jelly bean ever becomes president, i hope it is a licorice jellybean, for the sake of consanguinity.

  6. No Cuntry 4 Old Men!

    VOIP, you are emphatically and blantantly WRONG if you think modern yoga has nothing to do with Hinduism. It ORIGINATED from Hindu culture. It doesn’t matter if the focus in gyms is on getting a tight ass or not. The asanas originate in HINDU CULTURE, not any other culture. It doesn’t matter how watered down it gets into forms of piloga (pilates + yoga) and the variety of innovations we see today. The yoga parts in all those mish-mashes have their origins in no other culture but the HINDU one!

    And, if you care to bother to visit any of the 10s of thousands of yoga studios that are dotted across this country, you will come to know that Patanjali’s Yoga sutras are indeed taught in many of them, as well as other levels of yoga beyond just asana.

    I never ever claimed these people ARE HIndus. I claimed they are practicing some form of Hinduism. Asana is a form of Hinduism (yoga), and those who practice it are, well, practicing it.

    This is not about people claming to be Hindus or making any type of conversion, and it never has been. I specified that I was talking about the cultural influence.

    Let’s review my original comments in that regard;

    “YOGA certainly does not take on any hint of any sort of caste system, at least as its PRACTICED by millions here, and there are other examples, like the Hare Krishnas and Yogi Bhajan’s group, etc. They have fused east and west quite well, taking the best of both.”

    AND

    “There are millions of people PRACTICING a form of Hinduism, YOGA, and its accompanying PRANAYAMA and meditation practices.”

    Not only are you confused about Hinduism and its cultural influence, you also have reading comprehension issues.

    I don’t know how I could be any more clear than I was above.

  7. “NC4OM sounds like those annoying Born Again Pagans who always go on and on about the Burning Times and how their people’s ‘natural organic folk beliefs’ are superior to imperialist *Semitic* religions (wink wink, dog whistle) , except it’s Hinduism vs Islam rather than European paganism vs Christianity.”

    Yup. And as a Scot I know how grating I find it when it’s my own culture’s old religion that they’re cherrypicking bits of (and ignoring the parts where, say, we used to burn people alive ourselves for various infractions). So I do wonder how someone who grew up Hindu would view the pro-woo, anti-historical scholarship stuff being promoted by NC4OM.

  8. Keep fuckin’ that chicken, Sock Puppeteer. I’m just going to leave this here while you keep singing yourself that lullaby that all islam has been imperialist, that Islam has always converted by the sword, and that nobody outside of the arabian peninsula could ever adopt it on their own.

    I mean, you’re not gonna learn from it, but someone else might.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Indonesia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Malaysia

    off the top of my head. But again, not really for your benefit. I’m done.

  9. Cassandra says:

    “What I find annoying is the way all the various pieces of New Age appropriation tend to blend together into a stew that doesn’t make any sense, philosophically speaking. It all gets very Oprah’s book list after a while. My former mother in law is a classic case – Old Man would love her to bits. I love her too actually, but philosophicaly she’s a mess.

    My ex refers to The Celestine Prophecy (which his mother inflicted upon both of us) as “Indiana Jones and the Keys to Enlightment”. That pretty much sums up the sort of bored contempt I feel towards most New Age stuff too.”

    Exactly. The “smorgasbord” approach to religion. This bit pinched from Hinduism, this bit from Buddhism, oh and this bit from Confucianism is shiny, oh and don’t forget angels or feng shui. No discrimination, no understanding of the history and culture that gave rise to the beliefs and above all, no context of any kind all with a scattering of sparkly crystals and symbols who’s meanings are usually a mystery. Don’t bother me with the study, the actual work involved in understanding what it means, I just want teh pretty. Fluffy bunny paganism.

    Grrr…

    .

  10. Rutee,

    Thank you for the links. Zheng He is a bit of a hero of mine and I always love it when other people post links about him!

  11. NC4OM: What, no response to my comment about how violent various Hindu texts are? Why doesn’t this make you an oppressive murderer?

    The asanas originate in HINDU CULTURE, not any other culture. It doesn’t matter how watered down it gets into forms of piloga (pilates + yoga) and the variety of innovations we see today. The yoga parts in all those mish-mashes have their origins in no other culture but the HINDU one!

    But once the Pilates is involved, it’s not just Hindu any more.

  12. Old Man:

    Yoga is and always will be an important part of many Hindu sects. Absolutely central but that does not mean that the commodified yoga that’s taught in the west has any real connection with the way it is practiced in it’s places of origin. To us it’s little more than an exercise regime, to it’s original practitioners it is a religious imperative. Unless western practitioners understand the original meaning of what they are doing, and practice it as Indian holy men and women do then it is not true yoga, it’s just a set of exercises learned by rote with the vast majority of it’s meaning stripped away from it. As an exercise regime, of course, it’s valuable, but that’s all it is to most westerners. It has become stripped of it’s true meaning and divorced from it’s origins.

    To treat the western version as if it’s in some way equivalent to the way it’s practiced in India by people who actually know what it’s for and how to use it to it’s fullest extent is really quite insulting.

  13. @ Phillipa – Yep, that’s my mother in law. A Buddhist altar with a Kuan Yin statue on it, a picture of Ganesha on the wall behind it, and stylised cherubs with little sayings about how they’re watching over you scattered around on tables. Her bedroom is like a poorly arranged cultural salad, with a tape of dolphin sounds playing in the background as the dressing.

  14. Oh, and a Tibetan tanha hanging over her bed, and a Bible on the nightstand. I love her to bits, but she’s a flake.

  15. Tankha, dammit. I really can’t type at all today.

  16. Cassandra,

    Thing is, if you actually have some kind of philosophical underpinning to that eclectic approach it might work for a particular kind of person. I mean, If that person believed that all religions that cultivated a compassionate heart were valuable and held a kernel of truth then a statue of Kuan Yin or Avalokitesvara on an altar, with a statue of Green Tara behind it, a tankha with an image of Chenrezig over the bed and a bible on the nightstand might be helpful to that person. It would remind them of the kind of person they want to be and the philosophy behind it. But that approach would presuppose a knowledge of the mythology of the deities in question, the scriptures describing them, the cultures in which they arose, why whose ideas were important and still are and a willingness to change yourself to be more like them. That’s damned hard work and a vast number of people wouldn’t be prepared to do it. I don’t actually have a problem with people borrowing as long as they quote their sources and have done the work necessary not to be disrespectful.

  17. No, NC4OM, you don’t have to resond to every point I make, but you do have to acknowledge them if you attempt to rebut me by asserting I have been ignoring the things that were contained within them.

    Also, I am not a woman, I am genderqueer/non-binary trans. I find it interesting how when MRAs code me as a woman, that is when they are speaking to me most dismissively and most ignoring what I say.

  18. I’d argue that “yoga” as it is practiced in the west is actually in direct contradiction of Hindu spiritual beliefs. The whole point of the reincarnation cycle is to free oneself from the prison of the body. Using “yoga” to get a toned ass is very counter-productive.

  19. If yoga is Hinduism, does that mean saying OMG makes me a believer? ^_^’

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