Reddit’s TwoXChromosomes subreddit overrun with angry dudes
A group portrait of TwoXChromosomes regulars on Reddit?
As “activists,” Men’s Rights Activists seem to be good at only two things: harassing people, and flooding comment sections of websites with their endlessly repeated half-dozen talking points. On Reddit, for example, the local MRAs have been quite the little imperialists, invading a number of gender-related subreddits (like r/equality and r/egalitarian) and turning them essentially into r/mensrights-lite, which has effectively meant killing them. (The recently started r/masculism – an attempt to do Men’s Rights on Reddit without all the misogyny – doesn’t have a chance.)
Well, now the MRA invaders on Reddit seem to have set their sights on a much bigger target: the TwoXChromosomes subreddit. Yep, they’re trying to turn Reddit’s central hangout for the ladies into a boys club.
2XC– an explicitly female-oriented forum on a site (Reddit) heavily dominated by dudes — has always been a strange place. Though I am myself, obviously, a dude, I used to read it fairly regularly, finding it a welcome respite from all the “sammich” jokes and other idiot misogyny so pervasive elsewhere on Reddit. At the time, 2XC had a (completely unwarranted) reputation amongst the Reddit crowd as an evil place full of feminazi man-haters.
Then something started happening to 2XC. That thing was dudes. And not just any dudes – MRA dudes. Regulars on r/mensrights started linking to threads in 2XC and invading en masse, downvoting anything vaguely feminist and spewing forth their standard litanies of complaint. Some of these invaders decided to stay. And so, these sporadic raiding parties turned into a sort of occupation.
No, 2XC – despite the growing number of MRA residents, including a few female MRAs – has not turned into another r/mensrights. But at times, especially when the discussion turns to some MRA pet issue, the place looks a lot like dude central.
Case in point: this 2XC thread, expertly dissected by NauticalLittleNet in ShitRedditSays. The story: a woman posts a picture of her Halloween costume on Reddit and is bugged by a rude, creepy comment referring to her breasts (something that happens approximately ten zillion times a day on Reddit). So she posts the pic again to 2XC, hoping for sympathy. Instead, she’s treated to a barrage of comments mocking her for her alleged “persecution complex.” As NauticalLittleNet shows, the overwhelming majority of the obnoxious comments (all of which garnered numerous upvotes) were from dudes, many of them MRAs.
Naturally, this sort of thing – which happens pretty regularly on 2XC – has totally changed the dynamic of the subreddit from something that was sort of a haven for Reddit women to just another subreddit overflowing with obnoxious dudery.
As a Redditor called emmster noted recently in r/feminist, some women in 2XC have basically stopped posting anything vaguely feminist for fear of being jumped on by argumentative dudes:
I’ll be getting downvoted to Hell in the comments, but get PMs that are supportive from women who feel too afraid of the judgment and vitriol to jump in. I don’t love knowing there are women afraid to voice their opinions in a space that’s for women.
Honestly, I think the sustained r/MensRights invasion is what’s taking the largest toll. It’s like they can’t stand the idea that women have a space that’s active and popular, and they have to come ruin it.
And it doesn’t help that, as Donna_Juanita noted in the same discussion, some of the 2XC mods have essentially bent over backwards to accommodate the MRA invaders and to clamp down on feminists allegedly causing “drama.”
In ShitRedditSays, emmster offers a broader take on what’s happened to 2XC
Since young men are a majority on the site as a whole, and a pretty hefty number of them haven’t had the “There Are Places I Am Not Necessarily Welcome to Pontificate on My Opinion” realization, the space becomes less of a place for women, and more of a place to talk about women. Which is a pretty big distinction. And a tricky thing to keep from happening without raising the ire of the entitled, ignorant young dude contingent.
As a reddit friend of mine put it, it all started with the “Hey Ladies, What Do You Think of My Dick?” posts. When a bunch of guys started posting questions, trying to “understand women,” which of course is a flawed goal, because women, being people, have a variety of opinions and preferences, and cannot actually be understood as a group. Some of them were actually questioning preferences on penis size, hence the name of the phenomenon.
My hypothesis is that eventually, it will be nothing but men talking to men about what they think about women.
Not that there is a shortage of such spaces on Reddit, or in the world in general.
By the way, that picture above is not actually a picture of 2XC regulars. It’s a picture of the Huutajat Men’s Shouting Choir. Which is a real thing in the world. Here they are in action:
Posted on November 1, 2011, in antifeminism, antifeminst women, douchebaggery, misogyny, MRA, MRA paradox, penises, reddit, video. Bookmark the permalink. 429 Comments.
No, just women.
There are days I like Brandon so much more than NWO.
Holly Pervocracy | November 1, 2011 at 10:14 pm
NWO, the things you are talking about aren’t from Earth. They aren’t things that happen. THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE. You are using facts from some other planet I have not heard of to make political points that would be… actually, most of them would still be despicable on that planet.
Sure it is! THIS IS TOTALLY REAL LIFE. IT’S REALER THAN REAL XD
NWO knows our lives better than we know our lives! He’s always telling us that we’re lying, or that we’re making up or misinterpreting our experiences, how the government gives us a billion thigns and how I have the power to destroy him right now (it’s a wonder I don’t xD ) plus that I trample straight cis men! :D Thousands!
So I think we should sit back and let NWO tell us how REALER life works :D
NWOslave, females are 51% percent of the human population. That means that in your perfect system, there will be a small percentage of females who do not have a man to be enslaved by.
Are some men to get an extra slave? Are the surplus women to be killed? What’s your solution to the fraction of women who aren’t under your jackboot?
Oh, yeah. Read the whole thread. It’s unspeakable.
Honestly, I don’t know if this is your game anymore. You’re good with the rapier, needling people who are trying to put a pretty face on their hate until they can’t take it.
NWO isn’t even pretending anymore. He’s just let it all out in a flood of venom and bile. There is no more subtlety here.
Brandon isn’t half as fun as NWO XD
He’s just… creepy and videotapey >_>
NWO is hilarious cuz he has this HUGE BIG WORLD (that changes a lot too xD his worldview contradicts all the time, that’s why I think he’s so circumspect about it xD) that I love finding more about :D
ANd he’s the ECKSPERT on things! Like our lives! :D
Actually, I gave it a think, and I’m willing to make a deal with NWO.
He thinks men should be able to make women their literal slaves because men have been metaphoric slaves for too long. Well, that’s not quite right.
While literal slavery is of course disgusting, I am fully willing to be a metaphoric slave–you know, the kind with full control over their own money and home and movements and work–as reparation to men. I’ll be the kind of slave that has total freedom of speech and can get away with cheating on their taxes, the kind of slave who can make decisions about their own personal and public lives.
Out of a spirit of equality and giving men their fair due, I’ll be that kind of slave for my whole life–the kind of slave NWO thinks he is.
NWO, would that make you happy?
I think crashing a designated space for any marginalized, historically oppressed group is just a dick move, plain and simple. If they had created “r/let’s debate feminism,” then I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But MRAs crashing a designated forum for women’s issues is like the Stormfront crowd trolling a website for the discussion of African-American or Jewish issues. It’s just a dickish thing to do.
Of course, with MRAs or White Supremacists that’s just the nature of the beast.
Yeah, Brandon’s just dumb and kinda creepy. NWO is evil.
The hilarious part is that NWO’s various worldviews just screwed him in his enslavement scenario, b/c I’d be excluded as a slave in his world xD
Teh Ami stands alone! :D
Then I’ll use my awesome powers of CUTE to sway everybody and get NWO’s system overturned :D
Question, NWO, in earnest:
Is there not a single woman on the face of the Earth that you care about? Mother, sister, daughter, aunt, niece, cousin, friend? Any woman whose happiness you care for, that you wouldn’t want to see made a slave?
NWO, I’m willing to give your whole “I’ve been a slave all my life” thing a fair shot..
in what specific ways in YOUR life do you believe you’ve been enslaved? what things have happened to you that are evidence or examples of your slavery? :D and what SHOULD have happened?
And what stuff in my life do you think has happened to me (or Holly’s life or any other woman’s life here) where we would be enslaved if we were men?
What about Spear? Is he a slave too?
Hey Spear, do you feel enslaved? xD
@Holly Pervocracy
“NWO, the things you are talking about aren’t from Earth. They aren’t things that happen. THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE. You are using facts from some other planet I have not heard of to make political points that would be… actually, most of them would still be despicable on that planet.”
Google Title IX, preponderance of evidence. Respond afterwards and tell me I have my facts wrong. The only thing you’re right about is I do live on a despicable planet.
After reading for yourself that preponderance of evidence for men is now the law, will you still deny it?
Ami – As detailed above, I’d love to be just as much a slave as the average American man. :)
(Alternatively, I’d like to be a slave to one of the 90% of American men who would be horrified by the concept and immediately free their slave upon being given one. MRAs always seem to think they’ve got a lot more guys on their side than they do…)
Lol, Seraph, don’t bother trying to figure out another side to NWO. He’s pretty 1 dimensional.
before she responds NWO
Google Title IX, preponderance of evidence. Respond afterwards and tell me I have my facts wrong.
Describe for us exactly what you believe the “facts” are? Like everything you believe about this. She can’t tell you that you’re wrong if you’re going to do your usual dodgy/changing what you claim thing XD
In fact, everyone google Title IX, preponderance of evidence. Tell me I’ve got my facts wrong. Deny what you’re reading.
I’m still waiting to hear how you’re a slave btw :D You’re 50 something aren’t you? That’s a lot of slave experiences that you can choose from. xD
You got your facts wrong by stating that Title IX has its own police force and courts. It does not. Title IX has been interpreted to include that college disciplinary procedures for sexual assault (which are not criminal procedures and cannot send someone to jail) should be based on a preponderance of evidence rather than proof beyond reasonable doubt.
This is simply another standard to be applied by the existing campus disciplinary system, the same one that handles drunk kids who smash windows. It does not create new enforcement bodies and it cannot impose criminal penalties on anyone.
…Why am I explaining this to someone who wants to own a lady-slave?
Tell me I’ve got my facts wrong.
What facts?
What are your facts that you think Holly will realize are right? xD
Google “Ami Angelwings” and tell me I’m not awesome :D
It’s more a way of thinking than “facts” NWO O.o
I wonder how old NWO’s lady-slave would be…
NWO, you do realize that colleges don’t actually have the right to send people to prison, right? Any criminal case involving rape is going to be tried in, you know, real courts that go by the whole “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard.
The preponderance of evidence standard is being used in disciplinary hearings. And it also doesn’t get rid of the presumption of innocence. It’s simply a different standard of proof, the one generally used in civil cases.
@ Ami – No more than 15, possibly as young as 8.
Hey my dark master has showed up! :D
*stands by Dark Lord Futrelle, looking intimidating*
Ami, what form does the awesome power of your cuteness take? Is it, like, a ray gun or something? ‘Cause that would be awesome.
NWOslave
Then stop being a whining submissive if you want to be taken seriously.
My question would be why?
End of the world as we know it I’d rather cut out quickly on my own terms.
@CassandraSays given that he thinks that zygotes are human beings, maybe he should have one as his lady-slave xD
Yeah, NWO, you’ve taken the 1500 train from common reality. On the bright side, the folks in Wingnut Land get to deal with the terrible threat of the black hole in your head.
@Holly Pervocracy
Holly, my post came up at 10:27, your response was at 10:30. By the time you read what I wrote and wrote a response you would’ve had about 30 to 60 seconds in between. You googled nothing, You simply responded with an opinion based on what you, “feel” is true.
Hey CB! :D
It CAN come in raygun form! :D Ami cuteness can come in many ways! :D Sometimes it comes in a powder too, and big daddy gov adds it to the water supply! :D
The preponderance of evidence standard is being used in disciplinary hearings. And it also doesn’t get rid of the presumption of innocence. It’s simply a different standard of proof, the one generally used in civil cases.
Says the guy with an admiralty flag on his blog. Oh yes, we know your game, Futrelle!
@NWOslave, and she won’t google it, b/c you haven’t laid out what it is she’s supposed to “realize” XD
YOU’RE the one who just says that everything you “feel” is a fact xD
That’s why I’m asking you to clearly lay out what you believe about Title IX xD But of course you won’t xD You’re gonna whine over and over about how right you are and how ppl should just take your word on it xD
@David Futrelle
Than give us a link to the OCR, “dear colleague” letter. So everyone here can explain how preponderance of evidence is nothing to fret over.
Hey NWO, do you “feel” you’re a slave, or are you actually factually a slave? xD
Wait, NWO is in his fifties?! Judging from his maturity here, I’d have guessed late 20s at best.
Really? I always assumed you cuteness was a gaze attack. Like a reverse medusa.
So everyone here can explain how preponderance of evidence is nothing to fret over.
Explain how it is something to fret over. Again, details. Jeez XD You’re so cloudy today xD
You want us to believe things, but you yourself haven’t even fleshed it out xD
NWO, I can Google in less than 3 minutes. This is the top result: http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Channel/University-Security/Articles/Print/Story/2011/04/How-to-Comply-With-the-Dept-of-Ed-s-Title-IX-s-Sexual-Violence-Guidance.aspx
In other words, a complainant will be notified of their right to file a civil complaint, the kind that can’t send someone to jail. There is no special police or courts involved here, and the standard is preponderance of evidence because it’s a civil complaint and not a criminal one.
…Also, just for reference, I do want to remind you that all this only applies to people in college. Normally I wouldn’t even point this out, but I think in your case I need to do a little check-in and make sure we both understand that if you’re not in college, Title IX can definitely not jump out of your closet and go boogyboogyboogy.
…It’s sort of meta that this post got derailed by a male troll.
Well it’s late and all your hate and denial of hate is quite draining.
Continue with your hatred.
Or she stated something she already knew, because you are always whining about Title IX, and the facts don’t change just because you pretend to forget them between threads.
My cuteness can also be gazey! :D That is why I have my eyes visible in my avatar! :D
And we have a flounce, people!
You’re telling all the female commentators here should be literal slaves. How are you not hateful?
XD awww NWO is fleeing again xD I notice he became super cloudy as usual when a certain angel cat bunny showed up and after trying hard to pick a fight w/ Holly so he doesn’t have to look at my cute fluffy tail and be enthralled, he’s going back to his hard life as a slave xD (how is NWO on the internet btw if he’s a slave?)
Holly, it was very hateful of you to refute NWO’s rant with facts.
*saying
Sorry, I’m a bit tired from walking the dog.
Ami, to answer your question, I feel like a slave to my pets.
@Spearhafoc he’s an equalist remember? He’s continuing with HIS hatred too!
If the men’s army all get tired as easily as Slavey I don’t forsee much success for them. An army needs stamina.
(Also logic.)
Ooh, we have his permission to continue. Awesome. I really wanted to be hateful to men, but I just didn’t feel right to do it without a misogynist’s permission, you know?
Why the fuck is NWOslave always allowed to completely derail every thread on here? I liked this post and was looking forward to reading an interesting discussion, and then within 5 comments everyone’s responding to a NWOdumbass’ comment containing his standard crap that has been hashed over ad infinitum on here. Since the regulars2 are apparently incapable of ignoring him, can’t we just ban this repetitive douchebag?
Ten internets says he’ll be back tomorrow, whingeing about how the Repressive Feminist Gynocracy hurt him in the last week. I’m not even gonna bother to score, he’ll always come back. He’s like the Daleks, every time you think you’ve seen the end of them, the show up in the Cabinet War rooms and try to serve you tea.
NWO talks all tough about men overtaking the world with their righteous anger, then folds because some mean words got typed at him.
Something tells me the boy’s not ready for prime time.
Oh… talking about that!
NWO, I give you permission to be loving! :D
NWO is the epitome of hate so he can grant ppl permission to hate… I’m the epitome of love (or at least cute pink love) so I can grant ppl permission to love… I KEEP FORGETTING to turn NWO’s love permissions on… so…. this is all kinda my fault :\
NWO YOU MAY PROCEED WITH BEING HAPPY, CUTE AND LOVING! :D
I’m always an outlier. I’d prefer dumb over stupid any day. At least with the dumb ones I can pretend there’s hope.
KathleenB | November 1, 2011 at 10:48 pm
Ten internets says he’ll be back tomorrow, whingeing about how the Repressive Feminist Gynocracy hurt him in the last week.
Of course he';ll be xD He doesn’t appear to DO ANYTHING ELSE w/ his life XD He’s the most consistent commenter here… which is kinda disturbing cuz he also HATES it here xD So I guess this is a form of self torture or something…. but he’s here prolly in total more than anybody else xD
@Holly that’s a good point xD I mean NWO has trouble dealing with two letters XD and he expects to fight the good fight against a giant conspiracy which controls every aspect of his life and can throw him in jail at any moment? xD
Surprisingly timely:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html
hey CB did you see my halloween costume? :D
True, but it was worth it to finally get some straight answers out of Slavey. Some lurkers got an education in the truth of the MRM tonight.
Again the cult series turned novel is “Light’s Out”. I can’t believe how many Americans have taken it for fact… perhaps Ron Paul has a chance? :)
I don’t know how he does it. I have no life and I barely have enough time to read all the threads, much less comment on them.
NWO is totally number 1 on the logical fallacies thing.
True, but it was worth it to finally get some straight answers out of Slavey. Some lurkers got an education in the truth of the MRM tonight.
Oooh!!! Does that make the rest of us various Zerg? :D I wanna be a Hydralisk! :D Or Kerrigan XD But I imagine Holly as Kerrigan actually…
Maybe I’m a defiler! :D I certainly defile every thread I show up in from NWO’s PoV XD And I can create clouds where he does no damage! :D
Google Title IX, preponderance of evidence. Respond afterwards and tell me I have my facts wrong. The only thing you’re right about is I do live on a despicable planet.
‘sup. title ix is actually one of the things i hope to specialize in, so i’ll be happy to set you wrong.
i’m not sure why you’re talking about preponderance of the evidence. that’s an evidentiary standard, ya, but im not sure what you think that the fact that it exists proves.
anyway, onto title ix: there’s two things you can talk about when you talk about title ix enforcement. you can talk about the statutory penalty of loss of all federal funding. that’s a pretty extreme thing, which means its invoked basically never. DoE can and does insist very strenuously on certain things you must do to be title ix compliant, but things have to be pretty atrocious before they’ll yank your federal money.
there’s also private rights of enforcement under title ix- situations under which a private citizen can sue to correct a violation. back in the seventies, when the supreme court was into giving full effect to congressional action, that was a pretty broad right. for title ix, the high point was a 1979 case called cannon v. u. of chicago, where SCOTUS found that a woman could sue to correct the disparate impact of u chicago med’s acceptance policy. the theory was that loss of federal funds is such a harsh penalty that congress must have anticipated judicial remedies for lesser violations.
and then the pendulum shifted, and we got gebser v. lago vista school district, where a gym teacher pursued and repeatedly had sex with a female student, and SCOTUS said that the school district wasnt liable. Part of their reasoning was that loss of federal funds was such a severe penalty it must mean congress only intended title ix to apply in extreme cases. they didnt overrule cannon, they just kind of ignored it.
and that’s been the law pretty much since then. actually its gotten worse since then. the idea that anybody is out there enforcing title ix is pretty silly. you can barely get a court to listen to your obvious title ix violations. why do you think title ix is mostly associated with sports? because that’s about the only place you can prove it.
Oh Lord… this again, NWO pretends to understand the concept of “zero-sum”.
That, or he really doesn’t believe in the idea of win-win, and wants to oppress women.
Hrmn…
Maybe both… he doesn’t understand zero-sum and he want’s to oppress women (with FREE, bonus degradation thrown in as a lagniappe).
P.S. I will accept the mantle NWO has thrust upon me. As A Man I will now Pronounce, on the subject of women’s dress.
Wear anything you damn well please. If any other man gives you grief, tell him you have not only my permission, but my express command. If he protests, feel free, on my behalf, to bash him on the head with a nerf-bat, and chase him down the street.
I think we are seeing the meltdown of the NWOslave. Not only has he failed to convince anyone of the rightness of a single aspect of any of his pet theories, the claims he makes about his life have been challenged.
We don’t know the truth of them, but he has been forced to consider what he has claimed, and compare it to his present state.
As a result… well we saw it last night, and more today. He admits his preferred state of the world is that each woman should be the property of a man.
No wonder he hates the law, and thinks the Constitution has been perverted.
It must suck to no longer have the gov’t making it possible to enslave human beings and reduce them to possessions.
But he is now prohibited from enjoying this thing which would make for him an earthly paradise.
And there was much rejoicing.
I feel like this dynamic eventually ruins many commenting sites. I used to read the comments on Salon, years ago, but the same very bitter and irrational men would apparently sit by their computers day and night to post insults toward any poster perceived of as female. A back and forth between serious commenters and a few unbalanced trolls eventually becomes tiresome, but Salon never did ban or otherwise deal with the creeps. I also experience some anxiety constantly reading irrational nastiness about women, which is why I can only read the comments and original links on this site sporadically. I just don’t know how to deal with individuals who seem to be founts of vitriol and irrational hatred. It’s not as if one can reason with them.
Sorry for the big chunky repost, but: THIS. I watched Salon degenerate for years as a paid user, and nowhere was it worse than in their Broadsheet section (which itself degenerated, partly IMHO through attrition of serious writers who were sick of being abused, and of serious readers who were sick of the vitriol in the comments.) Though every editorial by Joan Walsh gave Broadsheet a run for its money, as the misogynistic comments always piled up immediately. I wrote them probably dozens of times saying “I am paying for your service. I am appalled at your comments sections, what the hell?”
This ties directly in with the recent pair of posts, themselves inspired by posts at Tiger Beatdown and other blogs, about the unending stream of abuse directed at female bloggers. And woman-oriented spaces are apparently no better off. God forbid a woman or women should get to talk without getting shouted down, catcalled, threatened, stalked, and degraded.
I don’t know what to do any more. I used to host a discussion board for conversations about gender and feminism on my WWIV BBS way back in the day, and thought “it’s cool to have a space where you can openly have dialogue and answer questions and consider these issues since everywhere else is kind of a sausage fest” (well, we didn’t have the phrase “sausage fest” in 1992 but anyway.) And now, you couldn’t pay me enough to run a high-profile site on feminism.
Well, you probably could, but it’d have to be in the mid 6-figures, and I’d spend half of that on therapy and the other half on bourbon.
It just makes my stomach hurt.
And I can’t read here regularly or really participate much in the comments for the same reason.
Well it’s late and all your hate and denial of hate is quite draining.
Continue with your hatred.