Reddit’s TwoXChromosomes subreddit overrun with angry dudes
A group portrait of TwoXChromosomes regulars on Reddit?
As “activists,” Men’s Rights Activists seem to be good at only two things: harassing people, and flooding comment sections of websites with their endlessly repeated half-dozen talking points. On Reddit, for example, the local MRAs have been quite the little imperialists, invading a number of gender-related subreddits (like r/equality and r/egalitarian) and turning them essentially into r/mensrights-lite, which has effectively meant killing them. (The recently started r/masculism – an attempt to do Men’s Rights on Reddit without all the misogyny – doesn’t have a chance.)
Well, now the MRA invaders on Reddit seem to have set their sights on a much bigger target: the TwoXChromosomes subreddit. Yep, they’re trying to turn Reddit’s central hangout for the ladies into a boys club.
2XC– an explicitly female-oriented forum on a site (Reddit) heavily dominated by dudes — has always been a strange place. Though I am myself, obviously, a dude, I used to read it fairly regularly, finding it a welcome respite from all the “sammich” jokes and other idiot misogyny so pervasive elsewhere on Reddit. At the time, 2XC had a (completely unwarranted) reputation amongst the Reddit crowd as an evil place full of feminazi man-haters.
Then something started happening to 2XC. That thing was dudes. And not just any dudes – MRA dudes. Regulars on r/mensrights started linking to threads in 2XC and invading en masse, downvoting anything vaguely feminist and spewing forth their standard litanies of complaint. Some of these invaders decided to stay. And so, these sporadic raiding parties turned into a sort of occupation.
No, 2XC – despite the growing number of MRA residents, including a few female MRAs – has not turned into another r/mensrights. But at times, especially when the discussion turns to some MRA pet issue, the place looks a lot like dude central.
Case in point: this 2XC thread, expertly dissected by NauticalLittleNet in ShitRedditSays. The story: a woman posts a picture of her Halloween costume on Reddit and is bugged by a rude, creepy comment referring to her breasts (something that happens approximately ten zillion times a day on Reddit). So she posts the pic again to 2XC, hoping for sympathy. Instead, she’s treated to a barrage of comments mocking her for her alleged “persecution complex.” As NauticalLittleNet shows, the overwhelming majority of the obnoxious comments (all of which garnered numerous upvotes) were from dudes, many of them MRAs.
Naturally, this sort of thing – which happens pretty regularly on 2XC – has totally changed the dynamic of the subreddit from something that was sort of a haven for Reddit women to just another subreddit overflowing with obnoxious dudery.
As a Redditor called emmster noted recently in r/feminist, some women in 2XC have basically stopped posting anything vaguely feminist for fear of being jumped on by argumentative dudes:
I’ll be getting downvoted to Hell in the comments, but get PMs that are supportive from women who feel too afraid of the judgment and vitriol to jump in. I don’t love knowing there are women afraid to voice their opinions in a space that’s for women.
Honestly, I think the sustained r/MensRights invasion is what’s taking the largest toll. It’s like they can’t stand the idea that women have a space that’s active and popular, and they have to come ruin it.
And it doesn’t help that, as Donna_Juanita noted in the same discussion, some of the 2XC mods have essentially bent over backwards to accommodate the MRA invaders and to clamp down on feminists allegedly causing “drama.”
In ShitRedditSays, emmster offers a broader take on what’s happened to 2XC
Since young men are a majority on the site as a whole, and a pretty hefty number of them haven’t had the “There Are Places I Am Not Necessarily Welcome to Pontificate on My Opinion” realization, the space becomes less of a place for women, and more of a place to talk about women. Which is a pretty big distinction. And a tricky thing to keep from happening without raising the ire of the entitled, ignorant young dude contingent.
As a reddit friend of mine put it, it all started with the “Hey Ladies, What Do You Think of My Dick?” posts. When a bunch of guys started posting questions, trying to “understand women,” which of course is a flawed goal, because women, being people, have a variety of opinions and preferences, and cannot actually be understood as a group. Some of them were actually questioning preferences on penis size, hence the name of the phenomenon.
My hypothesis is that eventually, it will be nothing but men talking to men about what they think about women.
Not that there is a shortage of such spaces on Reddit, or in the world in general.
By the way, that picture above is not actually a picture of 2XC regulars. It’s a picture of the Huutajat Men’s Shouting Choir. Which is a real thing in the world. Here they are in action:
Posted on November 1, 2011, in antifeminism, antifeminst women, douchebaggery, misogyny, MRA, MRA paradox, penises, reddit, video. Bookmark the permalink. 429 Comments.
I have never in over a decade seen feminists or women in general take over a mra blog, troll in mass numbers or anything to that affect. But if you disagree with anything your labeled as a trolling feminist.
Yet time and time again mra’s post constantly on feminist blogs (or those they deem to be) denouncing them outright, bragging about their trolling abilities, while also worrying about how feminism limits their freedom of speech.
How about our resident mra’s rise to the challenge of finding one blog entry or thread on a forum of theirs that was co-opted by feminists.
I can only think of a couple of reasons behind this: Either men that are mra’s have much more free time then feminists. Or… that’s my only theory. So much for men working more.
Maybe the reason men jump all over women is they’re sick and tired of the casual misandry.
Maybe, after decades of being treated like punching bags, walking ATMs, scapegoats for all the worlds ills, men are vocally rebelling against the lies.
Maybe men have decided to treat women as equals and hold them accountable for their actions.
Maybe men no longer feel like giving unconditional love while recieving conditional love in return.
Maybe men are sick to death of women telling men how to act while women scream about autonomy, and independence, and being seen as an individual if a man dares to tell them how to act.
Maybe men are sick of women believing everything the MSM tells them.
Maybe men are sick of the haughtiness, pettiness, vanity and arrogance women proudly display.
Maybe men are are going to treat women exactly how women treat men; like an enemy.
NWO, that was actually a pretty good summary of the MRA’s “women are abusive and that’s wrong, so the only solution is for men to abuse them” philosophy.
THE MRM: SINKING TO THE LEVEL OF OUR WORST ENEMIES SINCE 2005.
*hallucinated level, anyway
Maybe some men are sick of sicko wannabe rapists…
Just a thought.
Maybe they have plenty of their own spaces in which to bitch about casual misandry, NWO.
And the solution to these grave injustices is to…WHINE ON THE INTERNETS. In comments sections, no less.
I’m really loving how NWO thinks MRAs are all about unconditional love. I’d say they have ALL SORTS of conditions women have to meet in order to be worthy of their “love.”
Hey NWO, did you ever answer the question of what women should wear?
WHAT SHOULD WOMEN WEAR NWO?
Maybe, NWO, the black hole inside your head is getting bigger. Have you had your gravitational field checked recently?
I feel like this dynamic eventually ruins many commenting sites. I used to read the comments on Salon, years ago, but the same very bitter and irrational men would apparently sit by their computers day and night to post insults toward any poster perceived of as female. A back and forth between serious commenters and a few unbalanced trolls eventually becomes tiresome, but Salon never did ban or otherwise deal with the creeps. I also experience some anxiety constantly reading irrational nastiness about women, which is why I can only read the comments and original links on this site sporadically. I just don’t know how to deal with individuals who seem to be founts of vitriol and irrational hatred. It’s not as if one can reason with them.
1. MRAs have too much time on their hands
2. They are bullies.
3. I much prefer Bulgarian State Radio to the Huutajat Shouting Choir.
Malcontent, I know what you mean. On the one hand, at least on the internet they’re physically harmless. On the other hand, it sucks when they ruin someplace where people were making connections and having good conversations.
NWO
Show me anything that feminists have taken over from mra’s…. anything.
Also answer what women should wear.
Maybe you have a mental illness? You are aware that my brother has schizophrenia which was well controlled, started reading and becoming a regular within sites in 2001 and ended up trying to kill his children right? So where do you stand with your mental health? I’m not asking you I’m asking your family.
Kave: Yikes.
@Holly Pervocracy
“NWO, that was actually a pretty good summary of the MRA’s “women are abusive and that’s wrong, so the only solution is for men to abuse them” philosophy.”
It’s a zero sum game princess. For generations women have waged war, calling it the battle of the sexes. Women fired the first shot and fought socially, politically and economically, decade after decade while men refused to fight back. Not anymore, the battle has just begun. Women wanted a battle as long as men didn’t fight back. Make no mistake, men are a fearsome enemy.
———————
@ozymandias42
” WHAT SHOULD WOMEN WEAR NWO?”
Whatever any man tells you to wear. Don’t like it? Tough shit. The times they are a changin. When a man say jump, you say how high. When a man says squat, you say how low. Go to any newspaper, any MSM outlet that allows commenting, school newspapers, anywhere. Notice how the comments from men everywhere are calling out women for their constant shit. Whaddya gonna do? Run to Big Daddy for more money. There isn’t any money left. Women have given all mens wealth and power to Big Daddy. When ya got nothing, there’s nothing to lose.
Thank you for that, Clairedammit. It was beautiful, and I love to hear people sing in a language I don’t understand. Let’s you focus on the completely on the music of the voices.
NWO, are you ever going to answer the question about what women can wear that isn’t slutty? Until you do so I see no reason to respond to anything else you have to say.
…
ohmigod
NWO answered.
NWO answered.
EVERYONE EVERYONE NWO ANSWERED.
Oh frabjous day, callooh, callay!
So what should we wear NWO? Tell us, oh great and powerful one.
He answered, but it doesn’t really help. The whole problem is that one man’s slutted-up and rapeworthy is another man’s prudish.
Oh, he answered it by being even more delusional than usual. It figures.
Actually, it’s not even much of an answer. He still doesn’t say what he thinks women should wear.
Look, look, guys. He said a woman should wear anything a man tells her to wear.
This presents several problems.
Do we wear anything any man tells us to wear? That seems like it would involve a lot of outfit changes, which is rather inefficient. Do we choose a specific man? Can it be any man we know, or should it be a man in a specific relationship with us (father, romantic partner, best friend, etc.)? Perhaps it is randomly assigned?
I asked my fuckbuddy Justin what I should wear and he said “I don’t care” and went back to playing Bioshock 2. What should I wear? Should I randomly select items from my wardrobe? Can I choose my own outfit and just have him approve it? Should I actively seek his approval or can I assume he will say something?
What if the man wants us to wear microminiskirts?
Okay, I asked a man. (Actually two. I checked with my roommate and my boyfriend.) Both of them said “wear whatever you want.”
Hooray!
But what if one man tells me to wear a high necked long dress and another tells me to wear a mini skirt? Whatever shall I do? Must I then find a third man and put it to a vote?
Speaking of voting, is that the mythological ‘first shot’ that women supposedly ‘fired’?
He answered, but it doesn’t really help. The whole problem is that one man’s slutted-up and rapeworthy is another man’s prudish.
Oh I think it’s very helpful, since NWO basically just admitted that his complaints about women’s manner of dress have no internal logic, and are therefore empty and meaningless.
Jesus, NWO, even for you that’s low. Should we just let guys on the street dictate what we wear? What happens if two of them disagree? A duel to first blood to prove their alphaness?
If it’s up to our male relatives or spouses, what happens if they don’t give two shits? (Seriously, I have to prod MrB to give me an opinion about my haircut or color – he sees my hair more than I do, I don’t want to get something that will make him ill every time he looks at my head!)
@malcontent
“I used to read the comments on Salon, years ago, but the same very bitter and irrational men would apparently sit by their computers day and night to post insults toward any poster perceived of as female. A back and forth between serious commenters and a few unbalanced trolls eventually becomes tiresome, but Salon never did ban or otherwise deal with the creeps.”
Dontcha just hate it when women can’t talk about all the things men do wrong without some man disagreeing?
Dontcha just hate it when women can’t talk about how they feel men should feel without a man interjecting?
Dontcha just hate it when women can’t talk about how men should act without a man voicing his opinion?
Dontcha just hate it when women can’t feign some superior enlightenment without a man dragging them down?
Dontcha just hate it when women talk about how moral and spiritual they are without some man coming along and bursting their mutual admiration bubble?
Dontcha just hate it?
It’s interesting that NWO, normally so wary of dirty commies, has no problem with the communal ownership of women.
“Whatever any man tells you to wear. Don’t like it? Tough shit. The times they are a changin. When a man say jump, you say how high. When a man says squat, you say how low. “
Oh! So we have to be your slaves! Gotcha!
“Go to any newspaper, any MSM outlet that allows commenting, school newspapers, anywhere. Notice how the comments from men everywhere are calling out women for their constant shit. Whaddya gonna do? Run to Big Daddy for more money. There isn’t any money left. Women have given all mens wealth and power to Big Daddy. When ya got nothing, there’s nothing to lose.”
Lol wut?
When I read this I first assumed it was a response to NWO’s comment just above it.
Unlurking to say that @clairedammit just made my night. I sing Balkan music like this and love, love, love the Bulgarian State Radio Choir. The mean-spirited jerk in me sometimes gets a big kick out of thinking about how much MRAs would hate this music (if they could feel feelings about art), because a lot of the songs are from a woman’s perspective and are kind of proto-feminist. (Ruma was walking through the forest; Stoyan the shepherd was following her, calling, ‘Hey Ruma, hey darling, come to me.’ Stoyan said, ‘If I bought you a silver belt, would you have me?’ Ruma replied, ‘Don’t buy a silver belt – my mother won’t let me marry you.’ Stoyan said, ‘If I killed a young lamb for you, would you have me?’ Ruma replied, ‘Don’t kill a young lamb – I just don’t love you.’ OH SNAP. Poor Stoyan, he is probably a beta.)
/nerdingout. Sorry guys.
@KathleenB
“Jesus, NWO, even for you that’s low.”
Hey the gang here is all for indoctrinating little boys in school with shirts that read, “awaiting instructions.” In the name of equality you should’ve said this was either blatant propaganda or endorsed little girls wear them as well. But ya didn’t.
You do have the right of life, liberty, property and vote, don’t ya?
You could’ve said Title IX is entitlement and now it’s own police force, judge, jury and executioner. But ya didn’t.
You could’ve said all the extra’s women get, costing hundreds of billions a year is an affront to men. But ya didn’t.
You could’ve said every womens only charity is pure hatred against men. But ya didn’t.
I hardly think you’re in a position to dictate what is, “low.”
NWO
I got the first comment.
Show me I’m wrong. Go back and show me I’m wrong.
@NWO [citation needed]
Oh I think it’s very helpful, since NWO basically just admitted that his complaints about women’s manner of dress have no internal logic, and are therefore empty and meaningless.
I think the funniest part (well, okay, one of several funniest parts) is that it is overwhelmingly and obviously likely that, were women to let all their sartorial choices be dictated by men, the world would contain a lot MORE women in miniskirts and see-through tops, not less. I’m not sure how one can simultaneously believe that women dress like “sluts” specifically in order to attract men and that women would STOP dressing this way if the men who find those outfits attractive were in charge of their choice of clothing.
@Holly Pervocracy
“It’s interesting that NWO, normally so wary of dirty commies, has no problem with the communal ownership of women.”
That would be a woman, each owned by an individual man, as opposed to the current system of women communally owning men thru womens use of State violence. One is communism, one isn’t.
“That would be a woman, each owned by an individual man, as opposed to the current system of women communally owning men thru womens use of State violence. One is communism, one isn’t.”
People don’t “own” other people. That’s against human rights laws.
So half the human race reduced to slavery, in actuality. That is total freedom according to the wannabe rapist douchbag. Figures.
If I allowed the men in my life to tell me what to wear I would definitely meet Slavey’s idea of a woman dressed in a slutty manner. The last outfit that was vocally approved of by my male companion consisted of a black mini-dress, black tights, and dark purple knee boots. Before that, the outfit that got the nod of approval was a bandage dress. Before that, skin-tight jeans and a shirt with a scandalously low v-neck.
This whole men telling women what to wear thing may not work out quite the way you intended, Slavey, since most men are much less prudish than you.
Wow, is this really the world you want to live in Mr Slave? Why? I personally have no interest in owning another human being.
NWO, where do I sign up to get my state-given share of men? My boyfriends have gone to bed and I’m not tired yet, so, being an Evil Feminist, I could use a man-possession to entertain me. But I just can’t seem to find the requisition forms anywhere online, can you help?
Dear God you’re equal parts fucking horrible and fucking hilarious.
Do I get to pick which man owns me? If so, I’m just going to pick one who lets me do what I want. Or not pick. If my dad gets to pick, he’ll do the same.
Or is it, like, first-come first-serve? No wonder you want 15-year-olds on the market if that’s how it’s going to be. Whatever age you put it at, the “legality” birthday party is going to be a clusterfuck!
Or are women going to be equitably distributed to the citizens according to their needs?
Oh NWO, you ol’ Lenin Of The Vagina.
See now, you that’s not what you said before. You said whatever any man tells you to wear, when a man says jump, when a man says squat. Every woman communally owned by every man.
What system do you have in mind for assigning women to their masters? Traditional father-to-husband handover? Government lottery? Will men be allowed to collect harems?
It’s pretty hilarious (in a fucking horrible way) that a guy who complains about being a metaphorical slave–you know, the kind of slave who has control over his own speech and money and movements and is free to leave his job and enjoys full protection of the law–is in favor of literal slavery.
Totally off-topic, but somehow in the last few minutes both Youtube videos in this thread decided that they needed to load and play simultaneously without me having touched them, and nothing I do seems to stop them. They…don’t exactly go well together. Anyone else having this problem or know how to fix it?
(Also, if people like Bulgarian choral music, google “Erghen djado” or “Erghen diado” – it’s one of my favorite songs.)
Apparently NWO’s only objection to slavery is that it’s being done to the wrong people.
@Kave
“NWO
I got the first comment.
Show me I’m wrong. Go back and show me I’m wrong.”
The reason for men slaughtering women on feminists threads and really anyplace that allows comments is, men are no longer willing to let women dictate anything to them anymore. It must be quite disheartening, after decades of spewing unoppossed hatred to have men calling you out for your foul hatred.
It is women who lobby for women-centric laws, entitlements and privileges which men pay for. There are women only charities by the thousands. It is women who have lobbied for, and implemented the absolute atrocity which is Title IX which usurps the right of innocense. They have their own police force and a trained jury. They are lobbying to further this atrocity called Title IX to forbid even confronting your accuser.
And your delicate feelings are somehow slighted when men express fury over womens behavior? Poor little snowflake.
What Holly said, NWO. You seriously are in need of serious psychological help. Then again, maybe you’re past the point of no return. What sort of insane brutality did some woman inflict on you in your earlier life? I mean seriously, the hell? All of your arguments are based on pure venom and vitriol and not on common sense or creating any sort of healing for ANYBODY who has been abused by anyone. You have NO PEACE. And you blame your current horrid state on women time and again…..my question is WHY? And no, I really don’t need to know the answer, but–consider this: you’re constantly swimming in nothing but a sea of hatred, and you’re treading water and you’re not getting ANYWHERE. No peace for you, no joy, no nuttin’. Hey, if it works for you, man…..but I’m thinking it really doesn’t. Get Jesus or something….hell, get Buddha, I don’t care….just get out of your HATE.
@Holly Pervocracy
“Apparently NWO’s only objection to slavery is that it’s being done to the wrong people.”
And your objection is losing that power you already have. Must be nice knowing Big Daddy packs a powerful punch, and he’s in your corner.
As usual, NWO is a complete idiot.
So…men essentially control the entire website, and then feel the need to take over the one spot that isn’t set aside for them. Those MRAs are soooo repressed, let me tell you.
Indeed we are. Which is part of the reason your diseased fantasies have no chance of ever becoming anything more.
If the alternative is enslaving my kids, I am happy to continue as we are now, with them happy and free to wear what they want.
So [redacted] NWO.
*I did my own redaction this time, imagine the worst, wannabe slave owner!
You do know that “Big Daddy” is largely made up of men already, right?
@NWO The only person I see here making men an enemy is you.
You know you don’t have to donate to a charity, right?
Hell, there are also tree-only charities. When are us oppressed Animalia going to rise up and put those weeping willows and sycamore figs in their place?
You know this doesn’t exist, right? This isn’t one of those “matters of opinion” things. There’s no Title IX police force. There’s no badge design, no uniform, no hiring, no people who are members of the Title IX Police. That is not a thing that Earth has.
There are campus police, yes, but they’re in charge of generally maintaining order on campus. And they’ll arrest people for sexual assault, yes, but that’s not about Title IX, that’s about state law and campus regulations and standard human morality. And since sexual assault occasionally does happen, really it does, I swear, this is a necessary function.
How the fuck did you get from “campus police enforce that whole thing where rape is illegal” to “Title IX police can throw you out of your bed and drag you to a kangaroo court?”
Oh right, by being a giant rape-apologizing rape-cheering rapist groupie whose fondest wish is to someday have a rapist’s autograph.
Are you artfully dissecting the reasons I’d object to being made a slave?!?!?
You’re right, though; it is about power. I really don’t want to give up the heady power of not being a slave.
It occurs to me that in NWO’s fevered mind, “the police can arrest you for rape” and “the police can arrest you for no good reason” are exactly the same thing.
I guess that does resolve that.
Wow, NWOslave, this is a new low, even for you.
Congratulations?
NWO, I’m not going to engage with your irrational bullshit. I have lots of male friends, by the way. I have no problem engaging with them, as they are intelligent and rational.
@10G
“I mean seriously, the hell? All of your arguments are based on pure venom and vitriol and not on common sense or creating any sort of healing for ANYBODY who has been abused by anyone.”
Healing? Surely you jest! In the name of equality, shouldn’t you be lobbying Big Daddy to reinstate a mans right of innocense? Speak to me about healing when my rights are in tact.
Look at it this way. Say you had a son and a daughter. The daughter was given extra in education, politics, health…everything in all realms of society. She recieved lesser punishment for stealing from the cookie jar. Her word was taken at face value when her and her brother had a skuffle. She was presumed innocent while he was given preponderance of evidence.
When they grew up, the boy, now a man said, “Hey, how come you gave her everything, less punishment and always believed her. Do you hate me?” The response was, “No one hates you just because we helped her, it isn’t a zero sum game.”
Okay NWO, what would be equality to you? :D
If we’re going to fix things, you have to tell us what your society will look like for us to work towards it XD You whine a lot but you don’t seem to have any solutions xD
Shut up. Just shut up.
You literally believe in slavery. Why the frell should anybody take your opinions about justice seriously?
Specifically… no vague “EQUALITY NAAOOOOOOO!” shouts that you always do xD You sound like your own straw feminists a lot… xD
If you want feminists to do everything for you, you need to tell us specifically what we can do, and how to do it…. xD
“And your objection is losing that power you already have. Must be nice knowing Big Daddy packs a powerful punch, and he’s in your corner.”
Seriously, what the hell are you on about?
Ami, he’s already been pretty clear that he’s not interested in equality.
NWO, the things you are talking about aren’t from Earth. They aren’t things that happen. THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE. You are using facts from some other planet I have not heard of to make political points that would be… actually, most of them would still be despicable on that planet.
Do you understand that, on any level? Do you understand, somewhere deep inside, that you are not talking about this reality?
Talking gender politics with you is like talking math with someone who will not compromise on his base assumption that 1+1=3, and dismisses all talk of 2 with “Two, huh? I see they’ve gotten to you.”
He’s made it very clear in this thread what he thinks the world should look like: a female slave for every man.
@Spearhafoc I just got here xD NWO wants to enslave ppl now? xD