Women in combat: Who put sand in your vaginas?
Good soldier? Not with that vagina she ain't!
MRAs often complain bitterly that men have to register for the draft and women don’t. Ironically, many MRAs – sometimes the very same people – also think that women shouldn’t be allowed in the armed forces at all, or at the very least should be barred from direct combat.
One MRA who’s staunchly against women in combat is a Redditor calling himself Demonspawn. In a recent comment he sets forth “four huge reasons” why. The first is a doozy:
The vagina. You can’t keep it clean in battlefield conditions. Military regulations state that women on extended training exercises must have access to garrison or equivalent facilities for hygiene at least once every X number of days (usually 7). Why? Because otherwise you run a very high risk of a vaginal infection and can die from it. Those facilities cannot be guaranteed on the battlefield and therefore it is an even greater risk to women’s lives to use them as battlefield troops.
I’m surprised he forgot to mention the chronic problem of centipedes in the vagina.
The rest of his reasons are equally stupid, if not quite as amusing. Number two:
Public Relations. … Have you not read the articles when women soldiers die and it’s a big deal, while more dead male soldiers is just business as usual? Public support for war cannot be sustained in the face of massive female soldier casualties.
And three:
Men get themselves killed overprotecting women. This is the #1 reason Israel deintegrated their troops.
Yeah, it’s a terrible thing when soldiers try to protect one another.
His final reason returns us once again to the whole vagina thing:
Women tend to “get pregnant” when leaving for overseas trips… That destroys unit cohesion. Research the “pregnant navy” syndrome. One ship had over 40% of it’s female sailors suddenly become pregnant before an overseas trip.
I did a Google search for “pregnant navy.” In 2007, according to one article I found, roughly 11 percent of female soldiers had to be shifted to shore because they were pregnant; it’s usually less than that.
Women: trouble when their vaginas are infected, trouble when they’re clean. Why do we even let them leave the house?
Thanks to MuForceShoelace for posting the link to Demonspawn’s comment on the AgainstMensRights subreddit.
EDIT: I misread an article I originally cited about female crew members on a supply ship getting pregnant during the Gulf war. The percentage who got pregnant was 10%, not more than half. (In my defense, the article was badly worded.) I’ve removed the erroneous material.
Posted on October 1, 2011, in disgusting women, I'm totally being sarcastic, misogyny, MRA, reddit, sex, vaginas. Bookmark the permalink. 323 Comments.
Fact checking, he is doing it wrong.
OK, let me summarise: last dude – complained about how women stayed at home, while men fought plagues, robbers and shit (seriously… fought plagues… was that like, a dual combat or something?) and women stayed at home, by the fireplace, (possibly dying of hunger and NOT reading a book, because literacy wasn’t meant for women by that time)… and now THIS one is complaining that women want to fight and protect their land and families along men instead of staying at home, by the fireplace WITH a book this time?
I am sorry… is there anyway in which we are not guilty because we are women?
No one impregnated those female soldiers, they just get pregnant. It’s a little know fact that female soldiers have discovered how to make parthenogenesis work in humans.
Also what is it with sexist dudes and the idea that the vagina is a pit of dirt and disease? Fun fact, guys – you only need to wash the outside bits. And you should be doing that with your bits on a regular basis too.
Eneya,
There’s no winning with these guys. They wont be happy unless women disappear or become the legal slaves of men. And even then they’d probably find ways to blame women for something.That’s why it’s best to just kick back and laugh at them :P
About pregnancy:
My main question is, what percent of the crew was female? I’m guessing it was pretty low–say, 10%–in which case, assuming the majority of the crew was straight, every woman is likely to have a lot of guys interested in her, and so a pretty high chance of hooking up (and let’s not even get into military rape). If the gender ratio were 50/50, the pregnancy rates among female service members would be much lower.
Of course in any case it’s nothing birth control couldn’t deal with.
Um… what am I supposed to be doing with my vagina to keep from getting infected? Besides the stuff guys have to do to keep their nethers from same? Because I have never heard of this and probably should have died from a vagina infection years ago.
His second point seems to imply that he approves of viewing men as disposable, and thinks it shouldn’t be a big deal when they die.
As always, being against women doesn’t actually translate into doing men any favors.
(Also, the vajeeter is self-cleaning and infections in a healthy young women are extremely unlikely to have any consequences other than “feeling yucky.” Maybe infertility if it goes on a really long time untreated or you have terrible luck. It’s about as likely to kill you as, say, a wicked case of jock itch.)
What I find most hilarious is those people have little to no comprehension of stuff like “facts”, “consistency”, “logic” but on the same time, they are the people who are saying women are illogical. If women are illogical… than what exactly are they? Plants?
Also… Vagina Dirtata is changing the usual Vagina Dentata horror story.
Poor guys.
This is why full sex education should be mandatory for all kids past 1st grade. Detailed education. Including cleaning, supporting and so on…
I’m going to do a quick translation for these fella’s. Seems they have problems communicating exactly what they mean. Here it goes:
1. Dirty vaginas are bad and it reminds me that the world isn’t perfect and that I’m mortal and that scares the hell outta me.
2. Dead women means that I can’t fuck them.
3. I don’t want women holding guns or possibly getting metals for dying because I’m a glory hog.
4. Women getting pregnant pisses me off because they are getting attention and I’m not and plus they aren’t having my baby, so they are whores!
Ok, i think that sums it up.
Quackers- You’re right, there’s nothing to do but laugh at these poor guys. Engaging a conversation with them is a dead end. I love reading everyone else’s responses though. That’s why I come here, I need to laugh at the absurdity of it all.
Public support for war cannot be sustained in the face of massive female soldier casualties.
He says that like it’s a bad thing.
OK, so, trying to follow the pretzel logic here. It’s unfair that women aren’t required to register for the draft, but you don’t think women should be allowed in combat. The logical solution here would be to eliminate the draft, right? Then men aren’t required to go into combat, so now it’s fair, and it will probably lead to less women in combat than if there was a draft that included women.
But wait! You’re actually in favor of war. So…we’re back to that thing about women being drafted so that they can be whores for the troops, aren’t we?
That’s legalized rape, folks, and the international community is still rather angry with Japan for doing it during WW2. (I know you guys don’t like history books, so google the phrase “comfort women” for an idiot’s guide.)
OOps! I misread the article I originally cited about female crew members on a supply ship getting pregnant during the Gulf war. The percentage who got pregnant was 10%, not more than half. (In my defense, the article was badly worded.) I’ve removed the erroneous material.
I wonder if a similar misreading of that article is the source for Demonspawn’s 40% factoid.
Maybe men should be barred from combat because they can get kicked in the balls.
Okay, the vagina thing is just weird.
(Don’t ask why) I’ve had to educate a lot of guys who think that the vagina is just this dry pit of death unless a woman is sexually aroused. Look, guys, it’s a “self-cleaning” thing. Like your oven. Generally speaking, the vagina is taking care of itself.
Now, you can get yeast infections if it gets too swampy down there, like when you wear synthetic fabrics and such. But (TMI ALERT) I once had a yeasty for TWO WHOLE YEARS and didn’t die of it. It itched like nutterbutters, but I didn’t die. (I was young and in denial and didn’t want to go see a gynecologist.)
I mean, yes, it’s going to get stinky after a while, like most sweaty private parts will, and the whole “self-cleaning” thing does make you prone to a bit more stinkiness from discharge. And then there are periods … but goodness. You can go more than 10 days without bathing without your vagina falling off. I know, because I’ve definitely done it.
These guys need to stop seeing vaginas as these mysterious, scary caves of doom and just, you know, pick up a biology textbook or something.
Okay, I probably just gave them too much credit in assuming that they:
A. own ovens
B. know how to use ovens
Also, ovens (like vaginas) are so girly that if you touch them, your cock will fall off. At least, I think that’s why my brother has never used one in his entire life …
Also, what if America ever goes to war with one of those horrible egalitarian northern European countries? Do we really want to expose our brave young men to the Swedes and their horrible man-persecuting ways? Obviously we should send women instead.
And also men should be barred from combat because they have feet, they could get jungle rot. Which is worse, not being able to walk or having a not so fresh feeling?
How is it then that women can go on long expeditions in mountains, go into space, swim across large bodies of water for days, sail across the ocean, live on homesteads in the Old West, live at archeological digs for weeks, study primates in the jungle for years or even go camping without there being huge numbers of vag-causalties? Oh yes Lara Croft has a digital vagina.
Also, all the women who have ever lived in conditions where they didn’t bathe for more than 10 days at a time? They all died of a dirty vagina. We know this because there are no women from the Dark Ages still alive. If only they’d washed their vaginas more often, those women would still be with us.
This is also why Burning Man only lasts a week. If it lasted for 2 weeks all female attendees would come down with a terminal case of Vagina Rot.
MRA marmoset says it best: http://memegenerator.net/instance/10348920
I think it’s because they think of the vagina as a receptacle for the male sex act and as such essentially passive. Remember how Rush Limbaugh (I think) said women can’t go into combat because water or mud would enter the vagina? If it’s not up to a woman’s choice/level of arousal/enthusiastic consent, then anything can get in there. And “too much sex,” after all, will ‘wear out” this receptacle, which exists to be used. Not to mention that if this receptacle has large labia, it means it’s been “worn out,” so labiaplasty is now A Thing in the US.
I think you are all overlooking a very important point here. What about the BEARS?
Alpha Bears?
I thought it was Newt Gingrich who said that women would get mud in their vags.
Aren’t Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh practically the same person?
Why don’t we just let women go on the frontlines, join submarine crews and go through special forces training and see what happens.
Touché.
That touché was for Graham.
Sounds good to me, Brandon.
Yeah, I think you’re right, I think it was Newt, but I’ll bet you a pair of Startrek pajamas that he’s watched female mud wrestling and enjoyed it. He’s soooo complicated, just like those super models in Vogue. They way they never smile and have deep thoughts, like Jack Handy.
Having a dirty vagina might help with bear fighting. I have no scientific proof though. The smell might just keep them away so you don’t have to fight them.
Australia has recently opened up front line positions to women :) yay.
Yay for Jack Handy. “I’d rather be rich than stupid.”
The point about the IDF is also funny. Over the course of the thread, Demonspawn goes from claiming that Israel de-integrated their forces to saying “Looks like women are not allowed in all combat operations. Thank you for proving my own point.” Emphasis mine. Hurray for goalpost moving, also known as that thing creationists love to do. In the meantime:
http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/03/07/women-in-the-idf/
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Israel+beyond+politics/Integration_women_in_IDF-March_2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracal_Battalion
Why don’t we just let women go on the frontlines
Like the IDF, Australia
join submarine crews…
Like Australia, Norway
…and see what happens
Because if anything is Israel’s problem, it’s that their military is too weak.
David – you believe an eleven percent attrition rate is insignificant?
Oh, Brandon: don’t forget the USSR, which beat the Nazis with an integrated army. Wasn’t the Viet Cong also integrated? So far, integrated armies have a fantastic track record.
Looks like your question’s been answered.
Personally, I think everyone, rich poor women men white black jewish should be on the frontlines.
The protection thing is interesting, considering that Sparta used to encourage their soldiers to be lovers to encourage just that (as well as wanting to avoid looking like a coward/asshead in front of your lover).
@Voip: What question? I clearly made a statement that I support women doing the above jobs.
What about the BEARS?
You rang?
Sorry I’m late…I was sitting around with the Mrs. discussing how we can afford a vagina replacement for her.
What question? I clearly made a statement that I support women doing the above jobs.
This one:
Why don’t we just let women go on the frontlines, join submarine crews and go through special forces training and see what happens.
What happens is that Nazis get their asses handed to them.
And I’m sorry; I interpreted your statement as sarcasm, that you didn’t think women should be in combat. My mistake.
I was going to say this exact thing. No public support for war, whatever shall we do?
Dirty vaginas will kill our soldiers! Somehow! We’re still working on the details!
Yeah, because after a few weeks in a foxhole, a man’s junk is going to smell like a rose garden. Especially if he’s uncut.
@Voip: Nazi Germany didn’t just collapse because of the USSR’s effort. American, British and the French resistance played a large part to the collapse of the Nazi regime.
Also, the Red Army had only a few aviation regiments and a few woman sniper detachments. I am talking about if there are 100,000 infantry soldiers…you swap 50,000 of them for women,…then see what happens. Then we can compare apples to apples.
I am talking about if there are 100,000 infantry soldiers…you swap 50,000 of them for women,…then see what happens. Then we can compare apples to apples.
Okay! Sounds good! Let’s do it!
Sorry if I forgot to take my inferiority as a foregone conclusion.
Brandon; I think assuming the women go through the same training and have the same requirements to pass training as the men, you won’t see too much of a difference.
@Shora: Well that’s a completely different argument. Women don’t go through the same training requirements than men go through.
Well then, they should. It’s the only thing that would make sense.
Also, the Red Army had only a few aviation regiments and a few woman sniper detachments.
I’m sorry, but this is incorrect. Although the number of women in the Red Army during the Second World War did not approach 1/2 (except among army doctors, 43% of which were women), they still fought in sizable numbers in mixed-gender outfits. I don’t have exact figures myself, but Wikipedia says there were 500,000 of them by the end of the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_women_in_World_War_II
See also
http://www.amazon.com/Soviet-Women-Combat-History-Violence/dp/0521197341
Nazi Germany didn’t just collapse because of the USSR’s effort. American, British and the French resistance played a large part to the collapse of the Nazi regime.
A part, of course. A comparatively large part, not so much. The fighting on the Eastern Front dwarfs any of these efforts easily. Especially the tiny French resistance, the effects of which have, in my opinion, been blown out of proportion by French writers who want to downplay the extent of their country’s accommodation to Nazi Germany.
The second world war on the Eastern Front is the largest military confrontation in history. Nine million died on the Soviet side, 5 million on the Axis side.
In the West (I’m not counting the war with Japan) the US lost “109,820 killed or missing, 356,660 wounded, and 56,630 captured” and the British “30,280 killed or missing, 96,670 wounded, 14,700 captured,” according to The World War II Databook: The Essential Facts and Figures for all the combatants
Before you answer the point I’m not making, I’m not saying that the USSR could have beat the Nazis on its own. It’s debated, but I think probably not.
Why would it be 50/50? None of us are advocating the draft; it’s safe to assume that more men will join the military than women for the foreseeable future.
@Shora: Here are the requirements for men and women for passing the PT test:
http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-fitness-requirements/army-basic-training-pft
In fact, the requirements have dropped since I was in. It was 42 pushups, 56 sit ups and a two mile run in 16:30. I was 19 when I did basic so I fell into the 17-21 range.
The Vichy accommodation of the Nazis–and, worse, their use of the Nazi regime as an excuse to carry out their own oppression of the Jews–is one of the least-told parts of WWII (right up there with the USSR’s badass female troops, in fact). There’s a movie out about it right now, Sarah’s Key.
Uh, I woudn’t call over 2,000 snipers a “few detatchments.” I also wouldn’t call 800,000 female soldiers “a few.” Yes, there were over 800,000 female members of the Red Army during WWII. On my father’s side of the family, every generation of women has served in the military, in some capacity, since the October Revolution.
We all somehow managed to survive the Vagina Death, despite every last one of us serving in combat environments. .
And it’s not like, even in the case of a 50/50 gender split, the military couldn’t place people in positions according to their personal strengths and weaknesses, amiright? Maybe a unit that spent a lot of time carrying heavy crap around would end up mostly male, maybe the majority of snipers/drivers/fighter pilots etc. would end up female, I dunno. I imagine that the US military already has some kind of mechanism in place to sort people into useful jobs based on their physical, mental and psychological attributes, right? It’s not like every dude can bench a tank anymore than every woman couldn’t lift 50 pounds to save her life — I would hope that people would not be randomly assigned even regardless of sex. :p
@Voip: Why would you not count Japan? They were part of the Axis powers. Was it because it was mainly Americans, Chinese and Koreans that fought the Japanese?
World War 2 was not fought on one front. There was the pacific theater, eastern front and the western front.
Americans were also better equipped and had more supplies than both the Japanese empire and the USSR. Better supplied typically means less loss of life. The number one resource the Soviets had was manpower.
From a death perspective, yes the Soviets died at a far larger rate than the US and the British but this was due to being overwhelmed by German technology and Soviet soldiers not having the proper equipment. Soviets died at a far greater rate due to malnutrition, disease, enemy fire and being a prisoner of war.
Each side did their part. The Americans freed France while the USSR freed Poland (not really since the USSR helped turn it into a communist puppet state).
Again, military history really isn’t the point here as I was only stating that women should be allowed to enter into combat roles, become a submariner and get recruited into the special forces as long as they can complete the requirements the men have to follow.
*puts on thick accent* In Soviet military, the Vagina Death kills enemy troops!
:D
*I blame all the grading I did today*
So I roll my eyes at vaginadude, then see the “What about the BEARS?”, then think, what about the bears’ vaginas, then think about all the female mammals in the worlds with vaginas who you know never hail the V (loathliest ad campaign evah), and never douche (because that’s what this lunk is talking about, rite?), and somehow do not die of terrible vaginal infections.
The I see all the srs talk about women in the military.
And I’m still stuck over here wondering at the vast ignorance of so many men (and WOMEN) about basic human anatomy.
Comes to that, isn’t the human mouth one of the biggest repository for germs and stuff? What happens to the poor people who cannot brush and floss twice a day while in the trenches? FOOT AND MOUTH DISEASE OMG!
@Nova: By no means is 800,000 women a few. However compared to the total loss of life for the soviets…it was. Men died at over 20x the rate of women.
@Bagelsan: If you want equality, than I think a 50/50 split is appropriate. But how nice of you to think of men should be the “luggers” of war.
Also, the military does have a mechanism in place already and it says that women don’t meet the requirements for combat roles. I would like to see this changed and I assume you do. So if you want women to serve in that capacity…then they can lug their own supplies when on the battlefield.
For some lovely mini-biographies of WWII Soviet ladies who just completely ran out of shits to give about staying home, and started killing Nazis instead, this site is pretty great; a few examples:
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/litvyak.html
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/pavlichenko.html
@Moewicus:
The point about the IDF is also funny. Over the course of the thread, Demonspawn goes from claiming that Israel de-integrated their forces to saying “Looks like women are not allowed in all combat operations. Thank you for proving my own point.” Emphasis mine. Hurray for goalpost moving, also known as that thing creationists love to do.
The IDF is even going to have a whole weapon system operated by women:
http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/middle-east/israel-paves-the-way-for-killing-by-remote-control
Aw, someone isn’t so good at reading, is he? It’s cool, I’m sure the military has a use for people with no grasp of context too! :)
To be extra super clear, if you want an overall 50/50 split (or whatever your current “equality” goalpost is this time) then there is nothing saying that every single particular type of job must then have a 50/50 split. If some task requires a ton of upper body strength women will likely be underrepresented numerically, although they would still be present, while for other tasks like shooting very accurately or pulling a dozen G in a cockpit men would likely wind up in the minority. If you sort a group of physically fit adults by height or weight you’ll end up skewing male toward the upper end, and that male skew would likely play out in units that required physically large people — but this doesn’t make that unit either “luggers” or all male, obviously.
But yeah, Brandon, let’s pretend that I totally want male soldiers carrying all the female soldiers’ purses or whatever. XD
@Bagelsan: It is clear you never actually enlisted. When you go to MEPS you take a test. Then you are given a list of jobs that 1) the branch of service you are enlisting into needs filled and 2) ones that you are qualified for. From their you choose what job you want to do. If the requirements for one of those jobs you want is to lug heavy equipment…then guess what you will be doing.
No one forces you into a military role (unless you are dumb enough to allow the branch of service to pick it for you…which you will get the shittiest job they have).
My point being is, if you sign up for a combat role position, you damn sure better be able to shoot people, breach doors and hike mile after mile with a heavy sack on your back.
The only time people don’t get to pick their MOS or Rating is when they get drafted. That is why lots of men enlisted during Vietnam so they didn’t get a job forced on them if they got drafted.
Lastly, purses? Are you kidding me? What kind of condescending crap is that? I would rather have carried a 10 pound purse then lug a 80 pound pack and a 30 pound heavy machine gun.
Brandon; Your tone says you’re arguing with Bagelsan, but your words say you agree with him.
@Shora: The point is that Bagelsan is incorrect in how recruitment happens. The military doesn’t select your job, you do. So if the military opens up all jobs to women, then those women will be making the choice to enlist in those jobs.
The military just doesn’t go…you infantry…you fighter pilot…you HR desk jockey. You make the choice at what job you want if you qualify for it.
Why would you not count Japan? They were part of the Axis powers. Was it because it was mainly Americans, Chinese and Koreans that fought the Japanese?
I’m not counting the fight against Japan because I was comparing the US involvement in Europe (in the Western Front) to the USSR’s involvement in Europe (on the Eastern Front). Japan is not in Europe.
World War 2 was not fought on one front. There was the pacific theater, eastern front and the western front.
I’m getting a PhD in Modern European history with a focus on National Socialism. This year, I’m taking a course in the advanced historiography of Western Europe from the Glorious Revolution through the newest debates around the Second World War. I’m also grading for a course on military history, although that ends in 1815. I recently presented a panel paper on the German racial ideologue Hans F. K. Günther and the role of India in his thinking about race. Thanks for telling me, but I think I’ve heard by now that World War 2 was fought on more than two fronts, and that each army did their part.
Remind me what it is you do again?
Lol, yes, thank you! I’m pretty sure Brandon just described exactly what I was getting at… Increased female enrollment in the military will not mean that women are suddenly getting placed into roles they are too physically tiny for just to make every job 50/50 female, or anything like that, anymore than men who enroll currently get randomly shunted into completely unsuitable positions. The women who would be assigned to combat positions would presumably be the women who can handle them, just like how it works with men. :p
I am dexterous and smart, but also all of 5’3″ and I dehydrate easily, so I doubt I would do well schlepping around a hundred pounds of stuff in the desert for days on end*. But I know other women who would be freaking excellent at that, and so they would be the kind of person who winds up in hiking-around-all-day type combat positions.
*My unsuitability to combat is not due to my vagina, in short. A man with similar traits would probably also suck at a physical combat kind of role (maybe he and I could hang out in small spaces and do medical or communications work, whatever. :p)
Brandon; What bagelsan was saying was that he was sure there was a mechanism in place so that people would go different places according to thier strengths. He did not know exactly what that was, but he was sure it existed.
You confirmed that. You get a list of what needs to be filled and what you are qualified for, which is exactly the kind of mechanism Bagelsan was talking about. Like I said, you two are in agreement.