Cosmetics: An evil plot to fool the men of the world into thinking that ladies are pretty
Evil female deceiver at work
Ladies! You may think you’ve got the men of the world fooled, but the guys over on MGTOWforums.com can see right through you! As dontmarry puts it:
Everything that a woman does is deceitful. From makeup, push-up bras and high heels, to fibbing about her dick count or proclamations of ‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).
That’s right, ladies! We know those eyelashes aren’t real! We know your cheeks aren’t really that rosy! And your lips aren’t really that red! And your boobies aren’t really … um, what was I saying? I got distracted thinking about boobies. Anyway, you’re all a bunch of liars! I bet some of you even wear Spanx, which are a tool of Satan.
Also, that thing he said about the dick count. Stop the lies! We demand dick count accuracy!
Posted on September 21, 2011, in $MONEY$, evil women, I'm totally being sarcastic, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, oppressed men. Bookmark the permalink. 572 Comments.
It just goes to show–the fabled “hairy bra-burning feminists” of yore were the only honest women.
So women who wear makeup are evil, and women who do not wear make up are evil too. Good to know.
God almighty these guys are idiots.
Futrelle,
Would you concede that there is a sizable proportion of women who behave this way?
He’s right, I do lie about my dick count. If I told people I had an unfurling starburst of 20+ modest-sized penises where my vagina should be, I’d creep people out.
Women wearing makeup are a clearly a sign of the apocalypse, David, why can’t you admit tha
Yes, GL Piggy, there is a sizable proportion of women who wear makeup, high heels, and push-up bras.
This is not “lying,” unless you think it’s deceptive to brush your hair because the world deserves to know what you look like with tangled hair.
As for lying about the “number,” this happens because people claim that women decline in “value” with each partner–and it only matters to people who believe that.
Funny story: I’ve forgotten my number. (Somewhere in the high teens or low twenties. I lost the list.) Does the fact that my sexual number is indeterminate mean that no one can ever know my true sexual “value?” Am I Heisenberg’s Fuck, doomed to have unknowable quality because my number is not known?
Somehow, when Piggy says “Would you concede that there is a sizable proportion of women who behave this way?” I think he’s really focusing on this bit: “‘I don’t mind marrying a poor man’ (oh yes you do).”
Woman A: “I don’t care if the guy I marry is poor.”
Woman B, who has never met woman B and has nothing in common with her: “I’m marrying a rich guy! I’m so happy!”
MRAs: “The Woman Hive Mind is such a hypocrite! It says one thing, and then it has one of its other bodies do a different thing!”
*never met woman A
durrrr
Holly,
the word used by the MGTOW’er was “deceitful”. there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance, highlighting occupational roles or status, etc. are tactics of “deceit” that guys might use to woo women.
so the MGTOW there wasn’t wrong because he says that about women; he’s more wrong because he doesn’t mention the ways men do it too. but i think the position of MRAs and MGTOWs is that there is a strong cultural meme that men are deceitful whereas everything that women do is not looked at in that way.
G.L.– would you rather they not wear makeup, bras, etc? Or would that make them radical feminazi coobags?
Let me rephrase: is there any way women can win at this?
Molly:
Any particular reason why you would think that? Women prefer guys with higher status, all else being equal. That isn’t controversial to me, neither does it bother me. That’s their prerogative.
So you might want to not make assumptions about what I think on these topics.
We demand dick count accuracy!
One.
Well, sure, women are deceitful in the same way that general politeness is. Again, this is about as shockingly dishonest as brushing your hair.
Romance isn’t always deceit, though. Not every guy is pretending to be affectionate to get laid. Now and then some actual affection slips through the cracks.
There is? There’s certainly some nasty memes about men out there (such as that they only pretend to be affectionate to get laid), but “deceitful” in this way isn’t really one of them. Men usually get stereotyped as the drooling brutes, not the sneaky schemers.
johnnykaye,
i don’t care what these women wear. i’m not the MGTOW who was quoted in this piece. let’s just call it what it is though; there is an element of deceit in people – men or women – artificially or temporarily increasing their status. it’s sort of like steroids in baseball. this isn’t a question of morality or ethics as the MGTOW *might* believe; that’s just how it works.
This guy’s comment is just a wordy, pretentious rephrasing of the old misogynist joke.
Why do women wear makeup and perfume?
.
.
.
.
.
Because they’re ugly and they stink.
Holly:
“Men usually get stereotyped as the drooling brutes, not the sneaky schemers.”
Men are dogs? Men can’t/won’t commit?
there is an element of deceit in that just as there are elements of deceit in things that guys do too. buying flowers, dates, romance,
your life must be horrible.
Whatever. Nothing about this post suggested “we just need some balance in our understanding of the deceit behind normal social conventions for both genders.”
Finding that much nuance in it is… an impressive feat of exegesis, if not straight-up denial.
I would think that wearing makeup couldn’t be considered deceitful unless it’s applied in a way that conceals the fact that makeup is being used. If it’s obvious that a woman is wearing lipstick/blush/etc, how in the world could it be deception?
Yes, and men who wear deodorant are deceiving people into believing they aren’t stinky. I brush my teeth every day, whether they need it or not, in order to deceive people into believing my teeth aren’t really green. Oh, and I wipe my ass every time I go poop in order to deceive people into believing that I do not, in fact, smell like shit.
All right, that last one was probably TMI, but you get the point. Basic hygiene and grooming does not equal deception. The expectation in most contexts, especially professional ones, is that women will wear makeup, just as the expectation at my job is that I will wear pants, goddam it all.
Aren’t these the same people that rant and rave that women “let themselves go” after being married, and are no longer sexy and hot?
And aren’t these the same people that claim all feminists have “hairy legs” and ugly faces?
I mean, what ARE women allowed to do with their appearance? TELL US SO WE MAY KNOW!
Spanx ARE a tool of Satan, but not because they’re deceptive, but because they’re unconfortable as all hell.
This must be my day for being confused. Maybe it’s the allergies.
Are dates, flowers and romance inherently or conditionally deceitful? Are cosmetics only deceitful if you not immediately discernible (a significant percentage of the products/market) or is it all deceitful? What about grooming? When does it cross the line from grooming into cosmetic? And is it deceitful? Wouldn’t it be simple to pursue/fate women who don’t wear makeup? Or, at least, makeup that you don’t immediately recognize as makeup?
And, am I the only woman on earth who has never had a man ask her how many partners she’s had? Do men really do this?
This is also, apparently, my day for open tags.
yeah, that’s what i was saying.
I think the question of “deceit” also runs into the question of how much of your personal appearance, sexual history, or romantic preferences are the public’s goddamn business.
I don’t think everyone on the street has the right to know how big a person’s breasts really are or how blotchy their complexion really is, much less how many people they’ve really slept with.
Bathrobe:
i think there is a difference between routine hygiene and boob jobs, year-round tanning, and gold-digging.
what interests me is that there are hypocrisies on both sides of this debate. MGTOW will rail against women who are seen doing these things, and feminists will alternate between railing on these materialistic women or defending women from these charges.
Holly:
i’m not sure where you see men publicly harping on women for their notch counts and making the discussion of notch counts everyone’s business. other women are more apt to do that. where you mostly see blowback on women with high notch counts is on the internet where men discuss the concept of “high notch counts”. most of these men would still get down and dirty with a woman with a high notch count, but the internet is a place to discuss ideals and “how things should be”.
but it’s not anyone’s business until a man who is weighing the prospects of dating a woman asks the question. if he doesn’t want to date a woman who has had too many partners – whatever number he deems as such – then that is his choice.
There must be some other meaning of “deceitful” that’s in play here. Because none of this makes any sense at all.
What the blistering fuck is deceitful about buying flowers? Are they hologram flowers? “I have brought you flowers” would be a deceitful thing to say if you had not, in fact, brought flowers. Or if what you had brought was a whole load of spiders on skewers.
Similarly, wearing lipstick is not deceitful unless the lipstick-wearer shouts “Look at me I am not wearing any lipstick”, and that would be an odd thing to do as lipstick is openly sold and advertised and most people know what it looks like.
*puts on radfem hat*
I wouldn’t call makeup, heels etc. grooming, and certainly not basic hygiene. Fashion maybe? It’s an arbitrary fashion demanded of women (like ties and suits in men). I personally am anti-makeup and anti-heels (for myself only), because I’m against arbitrary fashion that impedes my comfort and time.
Oh, and I wipe my ass every time I go poop in order to deceive people into believing that I do not, in fact, smell like shit.
All right, that last one was probably TMI, but you get the point. Basic hygiene and grooming does not equal deception.
Captain, do you not remember the thread where the MRAs defended not wiping their asses?
I disagree with these men. I honestly believe I am more deceitful than the vast majority of women, and since I am more intelligent, I can easily dupe them into spreading their legs open and contribute to their skyrocketing dick count.
Nobinayamu – I too have never once been asked my “number” by anyone at all, so have never even had the opportunity to lie about it, let alone any cause to do so.
I deceitfully wear a bra though, just to make it look, to my gullible victims, as though I wear a bra. (And it hurts not to, but mostly it’s the sheer thrill of deceit.)
“feminists will alternate between railing on these materialistic women or defending women from these charges.”
Feminists rail against cultural expectations that REQUIRE women to do these things (because women who do NOT do these things are socially punished for it in various ways). I wear glasses, no makeup, t-shirt/jeans, and have short hair. Men on the street take it upon themselves to: 1) ask if I’m female 2) call me a dyke 3) sexually harass me to ‘put me in my place.’
The simple fact is that some men (not all, but some) are threatened and/or offended by women who do not conform to the above standards. It’s really a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. We’re blamed for conforming, but punished if we don’t.
i think there is a difference between routine hygiene and boob jobs, year-round tanning, and gold-digging.
Indeed, Piggy, but are we going far enough here to insure that men are adequately protected from such egregious acts of fraud?
Perhaps we should delegate the task of keeping track of “dick count” to a government agency, like the DMV? Then men could get a printout of any prospective dates sexual experience–kind of like Carfax. Also, any body work, cosmetic surgery, use of tanning booths, makeup, birth control, abortions, and history of gold digging could be meticulously documented, so that any hapless male knows exactly what he’s getting into, as it were.
Perhaps vaginas themselves should be subject to periodic inspection and registration with an appropriate government agency. We could call it the Department of Poontang, and it would required by law to be decorated in late 70s style, with Barry White playing at all times.
Vaginas could be fitted with little turnstiles so that every act of sexual congress is recorded and its record transmitted to the DOP. Perhaps a small digital read out of the Dick Count could be permanently attached to a woman’s lower back, where it would function like a car’s odometer. Needless to say, tampering with the Dick Count Meter would be subject to the most severe penalties allowed by law.
See, I’m an idea guy. Let me know if you need any more.
How horrifying, the creep is here. It really says something when someone is even worse than our usual trolls.
I wouldn’t call makeup, heels etc. grooming, and certainly not basic hygiene. Fashion maybe? It’s an arbitrary fashion demanded of women (like ties and suits in men). I personally am anti-makeup and anti-heels (for myself only), because I’m against arbitrary fashion that impedes my comfort and time.
Fair enough, but neither does fashion equal deception.
Captain, do you not remember the thread where the MRAs defended not wiping their asses?
No, I don’t. Man, it’s hard to do irony when irony is dead.
Philosophical question: can a woman with breast implants really be considered to be “lying” about her breast size? If someone’s wearing a push-up bra and she takes it off, you can see her breasts are smaller underneath. But breast implants don’t come off; they’ll be just as big when she’s naked and during sex.
Since her original small breasts no longer exist in a recognizable form, can she really be accused of “hiding” them?
Funnily enough, I believe this too.
Paniorpa, I totally buy you’re more deceitful that most. You’re also creepier than most, so I’m not sure if I believe the last part of your comment.
Ha ha, I have fooled everyone into thinking my fingernails are purple, and my eyelids are sparkly silver. It’s all part of my evil scheme to um, take over the world or something. I think the MGTOW are mad at regular women for not looking like Jessica Alba when they take their makeup off. Hell, even Jessica Alba doesn’t look like Jessica Alba when she takes her makeup off. I personally find it relieving to see pictures of stars without makeup, as cheesy as those tabloids are. It reassures me that even actresses and models need some Revlon to look the way they do, so it’s okay for us mere mortals to use cosmetics, too.
boob jobs, year-round tanning, and gold-digging.
Pop quiz: which one of these things is not like the other?
You mean like this Captain Bathrobe:
Oh wait, that is something positive for women. NEVER MIND. :P
I’m at work, Beth, so I can’t view it now. But any movie with the title Amazon Women on the Moon has to be ten different kinds of awesome. :)
Why are they railing against cosmetics when they should be railing against clothes? I mean, everybody that wears clothes hides the true form of their bodies from everyone else!
Anybody here wearing clothes is a liar and a deceiver and probably a communist. Somehow.
The movie is the MOST AWESOME THING FROM THE 80s that involves all those actors. (it is mainly just a bunch of hilarious shorts.)
I’m not David, but I’d concede, No. Stop being stupid.
Piggy:
This morning someone handed me something and I said “thank you” rather than snatching it out of their hand. I’m such a filthy, filthy liar.
Piggy:
Question for the group: do you think he means “some feminists rail and other feminists defend” or “some women rail and other women defend, and if women do something that means feminists support it”?
MissPrism:
It’s straight-up equivocation: being deceitful (as the term is generally understood) is bad. Women are deceitful (in a technically correct sense of the word that is so broad as to include almost anything anyone does). Therefore, women are bad.
Pan:
Are you a Cretan?
Anyway, we’ve already established you’re a dreadful human being, a skidmark in the species’s collective underwear, so, yeah.
@ Hershele:
Are you a Cretan?
Now, now. I’ve heard the isle of Crete is lovely.
I’ve seen enough anime to know where this is going…
Projection over-ruled!
That would be the entire PUA culture, wouldn’t it?
RE: OP
I sort of see your point, Hershele, but for some of the “deceitful” things like the flowers and the high heels, I can’t even see a technically correct way to say that they’re deceitful – there’s no intention to give a false impression. One could make a tenable case for blusher or comb-the-remaining-hair-over-the-bald-spot hairstyles being “deceitful” under a contrived definition, but high heels just give a woman the posture and gait of, er, a woman wearing high heels (which our culture deems sexy.)
I think GL Piggy is arguing that men would never do anything nice to women if there wasn’t the prospect of sex afterward, so the dates and romance are, in fact, lying about the man’s general level of kindness and generosity.
Once again, MRAs are the most misandric of all.
One could make a tenable case for blusher or comb-the-remaining-hair-over-the-bald-spot hairstyles being “deceitful” under a contrived definition,
Comb-overs are the work of the Devil! Unless you happen to be this guy:
QFT!!
Yeah, just tune in tomorrow to see these same jackasses railing on about how women who choose not to wear makeup, not to wear sexy skirts and dresses, not to wear high heels, who cut their hair short or….God forbid!!!….grow body hair in areas other than on their heads, are doing so out of direct and flagrant disobedience to male authority.
You know when posh chaps do that thing where, at the end of an evening’s poshing, they drape an untied bow tie round their neck to give a louche and sexy effect, BUT they actually wore a ready-tied bow tie and brought an untied one in their pocket? Where does that fit in?
@Cap: “Κρῆτες, ἀεὶ ψευδεῖς …”
There are some men that say they really like women to look natural, and they don’t like it when women wear makeup. Some of them, though, don’t realize that the look they like on women, the natural look, is also created by makeup. When it comes down to it, they actually just don’t like it when women wear more dramatic makeup styles.
I’ve seen some MRA’s repeat the quote “Women want toasted ice”. This is a case where some men want two contradictory things. They want women to be beautiful, but they don’t want women to use any products that help them look beautiful. If you’re not the rare person who can crawl out of bed looking like a model, then what are you supposed to do? It’s similar to the people that think women should age gracefully, but they should never look old. What are you supposed to do, buy wrinkle cream and Botox and be criticized for trying to look younger, or be yourself and deal with ageism?
I love this stupid accusation. It really winnows out who the morons with unrealistic expectations are. It’s based on this weird assumption that looks don’t require maintenance, and that women who look amazing just wake up that way. Take Piggy, who seems to think that women are getting DD implants for giggles or gold digging, without doing the 10 minutes of thought about what cosmetic surgery requires (Hint: Money).
He is a Cretin, but I’m not sure why you think he’s from the island of Crete.
I see you think MRAs aren’t hypocritical about this at all, despite the fact that you whine and complain about people not putting effort into looking good for you. Women can’t win this game; that’s why feminists have to point why you’re being stupid, as well as why it can be harmful for people to aggressively push these sorts of ideals (FYI I’m not familiar with feminists attacking people who get the procedures, but the people who sell and do them, just so you know. It probably happens, but personally that’s where I see the problem)
Piggy, did you miss the part of the comment I quoted that said EVERYTHING women do is deceitful? This wasn’t about balance; it was about bad-mouthing women for some really stupid reasons. Go look at the thread if you want to see the context.
Why do you even feel the need to try to defend something this stupid?
Just checked with Foamy the neurotic squirrel to see if he had weighed in on this topic in one of his rants, and sure enough…
A Woman’s Deceit
On a side note, I know that he hasn’t weighed in on this topic (yet), but I always imagine NWOslave’s rants sounding like Foamy.
Rutee: A famous ancient Greek logical paradox is that of Epimenides, a Cretan, who said “Cretans always lie.” Pan was doing his updated version by claiming he was more deceitful.
Deceitful? Not really. Otherwise I would be deceitful for shaving and putting on a custom-tailored suit. It’s called “emphasizing your best qualities”.
This got a huge OMG! from me! So many guys in the annals of my dating history held this disgusting belief and would harp on my best friend for being a very girly-girl makeup aficionado.
No amount of arguing will convince those people that the push-up bras, the makeup, and in some cases (mine being one), cosmetic surgery is not indeed tailored for hoodwinking some poor, defenseless dood. Some men are so firmly rooted to the belief that women are out to get them.
Anybody else not surprised that the best qualities of Brandon can be resumed to his facial hair and his suit? ;)
Note the custom making of his empty suit.
I, a feminist, support women who rail and women who defend because I believe women can have their own individual opinions. Shocking, I know.
dudes who can wear suits without tailoring are lucky assholes.
as a grown man who didnt grow past 5’6” i have to take pretty much all my dress clothes in to be altered. (granted, i get my shit altered at the dry cleaners and never pay more than 20 bucks)
So… it’s bad to take care of one self and wear makeup, high heels and so on.
OK… let’s check how they treat women who don’t do that, I am sure that those women should have a blast.
*casually walks into a discussion about a woman who do not do any of those eeevil things, listens for a minute than runs like hell*
Oh… so… those women are evil, hate men, sex, babies, Jesus and the world, also, burn their bras and eat babies… did I mention they are evil as well?
I am beginning to suspect that for MRA’s there are no women they like at all.
Huh…
It’s like… they hate women or something… I can’t pinpoint exactly but I am getting a familiar vibe, as if there is a word for irrational hating of someone on the basis of his/her existence because of their gender…
If only I could remember the word and the movement who is actively trying to change that.
Can anyone help me?
Also, I can bet that EVERYONE in MRA’S company reads at least two different porn-related magazine.