MRA blog suggests a cooling-off period would make statutory rape ok
From Human Stupidity, an MRA blog rather obsessed with underage girls and the alleged evil of age of consent laws:
[I]f a 15 year old … can decide to have sex with a 16 year old … [h]ow come she cannot have sex with a 35 year old? Age discrimination by law?
Are you worried about manipulation of the tender 15 year old? I have a solution:
what about legalizing sex with underage adolescents, if they first undergo an hour of mandatory counselling and a 2 day cool off period? That should take care of this issue. This would guarantee safety for the 15 year old against being conned or manipulated. More safety that is offered to 21 year old tipsy Friday night party girls who may feel sorry for what they did yesterday
I think he might actually be serious here. Though it’s pretty clear he’d be happy with any excuse to make it legal for 35 year-old men to have sex with 15 year-old girls.
Posted on September 7, 2011, in idiocy, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, rape, rapey, statutory rape apologists. Bookmark the permalink. 522 Comments.
omg -_- Is MRAL rly trying to make a “I missed out on my awesome high school sex adventures!” argument? -_-;;
“What if you never got the chance to have sex with a 15 year old when you were 15?”
What does that have to do with anything, MRAL?
@MRAL
I really don’t understand what 15 years old have that women over the age of consent don’t. Except for less life experience.
edit- probably should say ‘people’ rather than ‘women’.
Apparently missing out on awkward high school sex makes statutory rape okay. Except, you know, for the part where it totally doesn’t.
Well, MRAL, I guess you’ll just have to settle for some haggard 16 year old.*
*The age of consent in Massachusetts is 16.
There’s this childish wanting what they can’t have thing going on. If they were only allowed to have sex with 15 year olds, they’d complain they can’t ride older women.
How young? That’s my question, still. Fourteen? Thirteen? Twelve? Some twelve year olds menstruate. How young does the age of consent need to be?
what. in. the. fuck.
Is there any length they won’t go to in order to excuse rape? Any kind or fashion of rape, really. If “rape” is in the name, they’ll find a way.
What if you never got the chance to have sex with a 15 year old when you were 15?
This is an even more interesting proposal than the one in the original post! So for every year past puberty you didn’t have sex, you should get to have sex with a person of that age later in life?
Under this system, I’m owed a whole buncha teenagers. The idea of sex with teenagers grosses me out, though, so could I use them to mow my lawn or something instead?
As for the original post, I fully support the idea. Thirtysomethings who want sexual relationships with 15-year-olds should definitely seek counseling.
Oh, hey, I have a good idea! How about a ONE YEAR cooling off period? That outta do it!
:D
At no point did I say feminists approved with boys being raped. In fact I said the very opposite as you can read in my comment above:
http://manboobz.com/2011/09/07/mra-blog-suggests-a-cooling-off-period-would-make-statutory-rape-ok/comment-page-1/#comment-58027
My remarks were that feminist blogs tend to mostly report, discuss or debate male on female rape. Very little writing is towards male on male rape or female on male rape. Sure their might be a few articles here and there but it doesn’t compare to the massive amount of writing about DSK, Duke Lacrosse players, random NYPD cop or any other rape case that is upfront on the major news stations. There is a subtle distinction between one or two random articles and “BREAKING NEWS: DSK Found Innocent”
And if the accused male rapist is white…holy fucking shitstorm!
Feminist websites completely dissect every little detail of male on female rape cases but have one or two posts on a topic if the victim is male. Then these feminist sites have the gall to claim “feminism helps men too!” It is downright insulting.
It wouldn’t be so bad if most feminists just said “I am a feminist to advance women not men. Men can have their own advocacy groups” But most don’t. You can’t make the two-faced claim that “feminism is for men and benefits them too” then rarely (if ever) advocate for them.
The worst of it all was with Catherine Kieu Baker mutilating her husband. The only popular feminist site that posted an article was Jezebel:
http://jezebel.com/5820664/woman-disposes-of-husbands-penis-in-garbage-disposal
The article itself was pretty standard but a good percentage of the comments were absolutely atrocious. Woman after woman stating she was well within her rights to chop a man’s genitals off. If those are the types of women that are attracted to feminism…then those comments are pretty much the poster child the “feminists are man-haters” stereotype. In fact one commenter summed up my feelings on the matter pretty well:
“I’m not going to lie, some of the comments down there with the jokes and etc are horrible. This is why feminism has a bad name.”
Here are the bad ones:
“Smart woman. She’s clearly learned from history now that we all know throwing it out your car window is not an effective way to dispose of it permanently. ”
“It was her desire to have it composted and turned into mulch… ;) ”
“He had it cumming… ”
“Hm. Unfortunately I can’t think of any zingers at the moment. Hopefully I’ll be a bit more on my game by the time the next article detailing a horrific assault rolls around. ”
“I think we should trust the woman’s judgement. If she felt that the guy deserved to have his penis cut off and destroyed, she was most likely right. Therefore, the jokes are perfectly appropriate. ”
Now maybe you will see why men get this “wacky notion” that feminists are man-haters. Maybe men in unison will laugh, make “zingers” and make a big joke out of a woman getting mutilated. Hopefully not…but I can at least understand why men are disgusted at feminists and feminism.
You do realize the “zingers” comment was clearly posted tongue in cheek, and meant to critique the posters joking about the assault, don’t you?
As was the “jokes are perfectly appropriate” comment.
Brandon, I know it’s a difficult concept for your ilk to understand, but feminism is not a zero-sum game. You know why there are more articles about male/female rape? Because that happens more often.
And there you go again with the “if feminist don’t advocate for men.” Some feminists, including some here, do advocate for men, but your sense of entitlement is staggering. You want to advocate, knock yourself out.
Also, some people making awful jokes in article comments is not a good basis to judge the entire feminist movement. If I judged humanity by the standards of Youtube comments, I’d be living in a shack in the woods with no Internet access right now.
So the complaint is (again, some more) that women-centered and focused sites tend to post about women? BUT WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ?!?!?!?!
Brandon: We’ve been over this before. You don’t get to dictate what feminists concentrate on. It’s our energy, and we sure as fuck don’t need your approval or interest to spend it. However the fuck we want. Stomping your feet and holding your breath are not the way to get feminists interested in your causes.
Brandon: http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/ You’re welcome.
MRAL: I didn’t get laid when I was fifteen either. This is not a human rights abuse.
The MRM is not interested in actually helping young teens who are raped who are male, but they certainly interested in creating young female rape victims, according to the words that they post.
Truth.
“Anthony, it’s true that most MRAs don’t see age of consent as an MR issue. But some, like the guy behind Human Stupidity, do, and these guys get very little criticism from other MRAs.”
The paucity of PUBLIC self criticism is a weakness of the MRM. We are working on it.
In the meantime, there is an effective system of PRIVATE criticism. For example, I have only one article published on “A voice for men”. It is not the only article that I wrote — it is the only one that passed our peer review process. The reason for this is that some of my ideas are regarded as non-mainstream by the MRA leadership. Most of the “man boobz” posters woule probably agree.
Anyone is allowed to post anything in MRM commentary, just like here. We have similar restrictions against calls for violence and/or insistent personal attacks (and we enforce a derailing restriction that, fortunately for me, you do not enforce).
Articles are very different. The legitimate MRM sites that I posted earlier all vet articles for approrpiate content.
The lurkers criticize me in email!
…that’s a novel variation.
Brandon: Your phrase “feminism is for men and benefits them too” mixes two claims: Feminism is FOR MEN and Feminism BENEFITS MEN TOO. Very few feminists, I think, would make the first claim. We’re pretty clear that feminism is for and about women. but plenty of us would claim that feminism happens, incidentally, to benefit men. In the case of male rape victims it benefits them because feminists push to make rape easier to report and prosecute and so on.
Now it’s true that male rape victims probably have special needs that female victims don’t or are less likely to (and vice versa). There’s a recent case in the news about a cheerleader who was raped by a football player, and her battle with the school administration. If it has been a male football player raped by one of his teammates teammate, a different set of problems would have come up that might need different kinds of interventions.
Most feminists are not spending their time worrying about the specifics of what problems male rape victims have. (Although I think most of the people who ARE worrying about that probably are feminists.) And that sucks, but it’s not feminists job to do that. It’s too bad there’s no men’s advocacy movement to take over there. In the meantime, it would indeed be inaccurate for most feminists to claim that they speak for men or men’s issues foremost in mind. That’s why they don’t make that claim.
AntZ: Restrictions against calls for violence? I’m sorry, the guys who claim it’s just fine to rape a woman for arousing them aren’t actual MRAs? Bullshit, son. Bullshit.
I find it hilarious that MRM articles are subject to peer review. Blind leading the blind and all that.
im wondering if the mrm actually peer edits so much as antz keeps getting rejection letters that say ‘enough with all the fucking robots’
hellkell: Since most MRAs I’ve run into have a shaky grasp of spelling, punctuation and logic, what on earth would their peer reviews consist of?
I have a feeling peer review includes making sure there is enough hatred in the post. Zarat’s post probably did not include an actual plan of murder or threats of raping, so it was not approved.
“… im wondering if the mrm actually peer edits so much as antz keeps getting rejection letters that say ‘enough with all the fucking robots’ …”
LOL, you and I finally agree on something (but kindly use the word “VR” instead of “robots”).
So, Antz, you’re saying someone’s *agreeing* with you that you talk about the VR plan to separate the sexes too much? XD
Again, I am not claiming that feminists should advocate for men’s issues. I am trying to point out the contradicting idea of “men should support us” and “we don’t want or need you in our movement”
I would have far more respect for feminism if major feminist websites and advocacy groups just came out and said “We are here to advocate for women and men are not welcome”. At least you are being honest. The way it looks like now is feminist groups snub their noses at men that want to participate but then come running back when you want men to vote for your candidate or sign a petition or otherwise advocate for your cause. It is like someone telling me to “fuck off” then a few days later running back asking me for help. I would be an idiot if I just ran to their aid. The better response would be to say “fuck off” back at them.
If feminists want to only or mostly fight for women’s issues that is fine but don’t try and make it look like you are doing men a favor or helping us. The major issues that face men are largely ignored or worse mocked by feminists. This is fine. I am sure men can fight their own battles.
Brandon: Who the hell is demanding you do anything? I have not seen a single person here tell you that you have to advocate for issue x or else – I’ve seen YOU doing that, to us, but I’ve not seen a single feminist make a single demand of you. If you don’t like feminism, or feminists, or the fact that we don’t make you the center of our advocacy by virtue of you possessing a wang, then GO AWAY! No one is going to stop you, nor run after you screaming that we’ve reconsidered. Stop wasting your energy and ours and go make your own blog – it’s really amazingly easy!
yeah brandon, its not that men arent welcome in feminism, its that whiny entitled dudes screaming ‘but what are you doing for meeeee!’ arent welcome
“If feminists want to only or mostly fight for women’s issues that is fine but don’t try and make it look like you are doing men a favor or helping us.”
Brandon, do you also wonder why there is no White History Month? Or Straight Pride?
Brandon, men are more than welcome to be feminists and help or whatever in the movement. They just aren’t gonna run it. That’s what bugs you, isn’t it?
@Molly: The notion of being proud of ones skin color or sexual orientation to me is stupid. White Pride, Black Pride, Gay Pride, Transexual Pride, Italian Pride, Straight Pride, etc… I see them all as a way to divide the general population into groups that fight each other instead of just treating them all as people.
@Brandon,
You didn’t read all of my comment, did you?
Jeezus, Brandon, didn’t we already play this game in the other thread? You keep asking “why don’t feminists want meeeeen??” and then ignoring the answers, you keep saying “but how is feminism helping meeee??” and then ignoring the answers… Go drink a beer and have a wank or something; you’ll feel loads better and we won’t have to put up with your broken record whining.
Brandon, you know pride events were created *by* marginalized people, right? Because they WEREN’T all just being treated as people?
Now you’re going, OMG, why should I help out the women? They ain’t done nothing for ME lately?
@HellKell: I don’t really want to run a feminist group but that comment sounds strangely similar to “women can work here but they can’t be management only secretaries”
If you actually believed in equality it wouldn’t matter what genitals the person had. But feminism isn’t about equality is it? It’s about advancing an agenda that benefits women.
On an earlier thread I hypothesized that Brandon chooses one sentence at random from each comment to read, and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. :p
But Brandon, years and years of oppression don’t just go away overnight. POC have been treated as subhuman for a very long time. As have GLBTQ people and women. Advocating for their rights to be treated as human, for being proud of their identity (however the hell they’ve constituted it in this messed up world) is not about being divisive, it’s about trying to even up the imbalances. It’s also about acting as though white straight middle-class male way of being is not the only way to be human.
We don’t actually care about people’s genitals; we somewhat care about their gender though.
“If you actually believed in equality it wouldn’t matter what genitals the person had.”
Then why don’t you go and help the feminist cause, then? I thought your anger against them was gender based.
@HellKell: I don’t really want to run a feminist group but that comment sounds strangely similar to “women can work here but they can’t be management only secretaries”
If you actually believed in equality it wouldn’t matter what genitals the person had. But feminism isn’t about equality is it? It’s about advancing an agenda that benefits women.
men dont get to run feminism because its not our fight. that should be obvious. jesus mother of fuck do you ever think about anyone except yourself?
Brandon, your density is sucking all the light out of the place.
Only a truly privileged white-boy wannabee libertarian would spew the following:
“The notion of being proud of ones skin color or sexual orientation to me is stupid. White Pride, Black Pride, Gay Pride, Transexual Pride, Italian Pride, Straight Pride, etc… I see them all as a way to divide the general population into groups that fight each other instead of just treating them all as people.”
But, y’know, feel free to pick whatever word or sentence you want to take offense at and squeal over.
@Molly I tend not to just randomly help general groups of people. I do support the women that support me. My mother, my girlfriend, my aunts, my step mother. All the women that support me have earned my respect, admiration, love and help.
@Bagelsan: People join movements because they believe in the message or that the group is fighting for a cause that would benefit them. If feminists want men to support them it seems only fair that feminists advocate for them as well. Otherwise, what is the point in being part of a movement that doesn’t share your goals, values or beliefs?
I tend not to just randomly help general groups of people. I do support the women that support me. My mother, my girlfriend, my aunts, my step mother. All the women that support me have earned my respect, admiration, love and help.
Everything Is About Brandon
Are we really having an argument about “the problem with feminism is that it doesn’t put men in charge”?
facepalm
@Holly– yup, this shit AGAIN.
@Sharculese: Seems kinda sexist.
@Molly: While I do agree with a few principles of feminism, I don’t think I would be welcome at such an event. So far my IRL dealings with feminists have been met with hostility and snarky insults. Sometimes I haven’t even gotten passed “Hi, how are you?” without noticing their condemnation of me.
@Bagelsan: Fine…if it will make you happy, you can switch genitals with gender and re-read it.
Worst sitcom EVAR.
“Otherwise, what is the point in being part of a movement that doesn’t share your goals, values or beliefs?”
So you don’t believe that women should receive equal pay? Or have traditionally “male” jobs? Or that women disproportionately suffer from rape? Or that they should be able to decide whether or not they want to have babies?
“So far my IRL dealings with feminists have been met with hostility and snarky insults” makes more sense now.
Brandon: Again, I am not claiming that feminists should advocate for men’s issues.
Again, to be charitable, you are confusing what you are thinking, with what you are saying.
@Molly I tend not to just randomly help general groups of people. I do support the women that support me. My mother, my girlfriend, my aunts, my step mother. All the women that support me have earned my respect, admiration, love and help.
And helping all women won’t do them a damned bit of good, will it?
@Bagelsan: People join movements because they believe in the message or that the group is fighting for a cause that would benefit them. If feminists want men to support them it seems only fair that feminists advocate for them as well. Otherwise, what is the point in being part of a movement that doesn’t share your goals, values or beliefs?
Happily I don’t have this problem, because I’m a feminist.
But look on the bright side – now that Brandon’s here to inspire and enlighten us, this thread will keep going and going and going and going and I’ll have something to do if I have insomnia again tonight.
Yay?
Wait, were you telling them they were stupid for getting married? That might have done it.
Brandon: @Molly: While I do agree with a few principles of feminism, I don’t think I would be welcome at such an event. So far my IRL dealings with feminists have been met with hostility and snarky insults. Sometimes I haven’t even gotten passed “Hi, how are you?” without noticing their condemnation of me.
Since this doesn’t happen to me (or, from reports, to Sharculese, CB, etc.), I have to wonder if maybe it isn’t that you have a dick in your pants which is causing the friction.
AntZ: Articles are very different. The legitimate MRM sites that I posted earlier all vet articles for approrpiate content.
This is perhaps the most damning thing I’ve seen about the MRM.
“Sometimes I haven’t even gotten passed “Hi, how are you?” without noticing their condemnation of me. ”
I wonder why. You’re such a ray of sunshine and inclusiveness.
@Molly: This are the issues of feminism I support:
1) Equal pay for equal work
2) No gender discrimination on employment
3) I am against rape for everyone.
4) While personally I am pro-life I don’t think I have the right to impose that belief on others so I guess in a way I am pro-choice as well.
In fact if you said any economic or legal right feminists were fighting for, I would most likely agree. It’s when feminists start discussing social, family, marriage and relationship topics that I typically disagree with a lot. I also tend to disagree with the idea of patriarchy. I think parts of society benefit men and others benefit women. Feminists tend to make it sound like some Orwellian “boot stomping on the face of women” thing.
@Pencunium: Really dude…dick jokes? Stay classy champ.
earlier this week i approached one of my classmates about getting more involved in my school’s chapter of law students for reproductive justice. shockingly, the response wasnt ‘eewww gross no boys allowed’ it was ‘fuck yes, lsrj is awesome, welcome aboard’
JUST LIKE IT WAS RACIST OF MLK JR TO LEAD THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT FOR BLACKS AMIRITE?
Uh, Brandon? I don’t really think that was a dick *joke* as much as mentioning that you *had* one.
Unless friction is funny? (Ow.)
@Rutee: No…but if MLK turned down white men and women that wanted to help then yes…he would be a racist.
You don’t know how to read for comprehension? I am unsurprised.
The feminist movement doesn’t turn down help from male allies; Sharculese was specific that it was women who lead it, and said no more on that. We do chuck asshats out though, and you’re not really much of an ally because you expect us to make you the center of our cause.
@hellkell: You are lecturing me about inclusiveness? Umm…the pot calling the kettle black
@Rutee: Maybe some clarification is in order. When you think of “male allies”, what qualities come to mind?