If at first you don’t succeed, grope her
This might work, actually.
Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
Posted on September 2, 2011, in creepy, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, nice guys, PUA, rape, rapey, reddit, sexual harassment. Bookmark the permalink. 858 Comments.
Yeah, but that’s not spiritual. You said spiritual.
Not all sex is dangerous; sex with people who have STDs carries a risk of getting that STD yes. That’s why caution and protection are important.
None of that means there’s a physical addictionf or sex; addiction isn’t a term used widely. It refers to observable physical effects that build a dependency on a substance. You don’t get addicted to cigarrettes because they just taste so good; you build a chemical dependency on them. There’s little to no evidence of such for sex.
That isn’t evidence for sex addiction. evidence for sex addiction would be tests for physical dependency.
None of his work seems to reference an actual physical dependency so…. he can go fuck himself.
Molly Ren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptsd
“Posttraumatic stress disorder (also known as post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD) is a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any event that results in psychological trauma”
Nice try (well not really).
I feel like if someone told Slothy “Please don’t yell at me, it gives me flashbacks” he’d respond “OMG IT’S NOT LIKE I’M RAPING YOU WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?”
Samuel from the future: I’m curious again. During your extensive conversation with the NOMAS director in which you discussed starting your own local chapter, did you at any point tell him that you are a big sexist who can’t be in the same car as a woman for fear of getting a boner, and that as far as you know, homosexuality is something that men choose so that they don’t have to share their lifeforce with women? Or that you “fucking love” well-known internet misogynists?
If so, would you mind sharing what he said in response?
So, Slothy, why are you protesting people having PTSD?
Really, I don’t know why you’re arguing here. Are you saying people with PTSD from other sources are accusing people of rape? Does this happen often?
Kristinmh said Rutee, thanks for taking down the semen woo. Nice and exhaustive.
I’d just like to add:
Sammy, you feel tired after sex because sex burns calories, like all activities where you move your body and your heart rate is elevated. It is not, I repeat, NOT because your Manly Man Man essence has been drained away.
You see, women feel tired after sex too. How can your Grand Unifying Theory Of Semen
explain this? Our gametes are not released during sex, so it can’t be that we are squandering our Womanly Essence. This is a major hole in your theory that you have not addressed
Kristinmh sex is a chakra. It is spiritual energy. That is why Tantric sex is popular in spiritual circles.Chakra is serious look it up on wikipedia or google it
Kristinmh you are not a man no offense you do not know what it feels like to be a man.
After I release semen whether sex or masturbation I am shot. Even if I masturbate for a minute and I ejaculate I am tired and napping.
Also if a guy has too much sex and ,masturbation his erections will not be as hard and raging and his orgasms will not be as intense.
Look how popular cialis and viagra and levitra are? What gives? Even youmng dudes are taking cialis.
With me if I ever choose to begin to have sexual relations with a female again my erection will be naturally stiff not in need of artificial viagra.
During orgasm I will be lit on fire. It will be special.Good things come to those who wait. No pun intended
And I feel like you’d call consensual sex rape if one of them had the slightest tinge of regret afterwards.
See I can make up crap about you too.
“So, Slothy, why are you protesting people having PTSD?”
I haven’t done that. Pay attention.
Hell, Bee, ya beat me to it, I was just gonna ask him pretty much the same thing!
@Flib
“Slavey, your a failure because: You are a misogynist. You are a misandrist. You can’t do math. You can’t function on any logical basis. It’s pretty clear you are not an engineer, so you are likely a liar. You cherry pick what your responding to, but don’t actually respond. You don’t know how discourse actually works. You are woefully ignorant on linguistics, legal script, cultures, religion, science and many other subjects. Rather then educating yourself, you specifically take a path of resistance because you are far to invested into an ideal of ignorance and blaming feminism. Pretty much everything I just said above can be objectively stated. It is not a matter of opinion, you are these things as you have given no indicative attempts on your own part. You are only vitriol and ignorant.”
Since a femisnist said it, it must be true. You pretty much covered all the bases. Although you did forget hating elephants and flounce. I guess I should take a course in womens studies to broaden my limited intellect. History ain’t worth a damn unless it’s written as womens oppression.
If I remember correctly, one of the first things one learned in feminism 101 was the story of how the “rule of thumb” came about. Romulus and Remus of ancient Rome declared a man should never use a stick larger than his thumb to beat his wife. Of course Romulus and Remus were mythical, but if feminists say it’s true, it’s gospel. My history is just sooo biongered up.
Slothy, that isn’t how consent WORKS. This article might help. You might also want to look up the concept “yes means yes”.
I still don’t know what kind of point you’re trying to make about people with PTSD. You’re pretty much saying people with PTSD from other sources are saying they were raped? Does this happen a lot?
Molly said,
Wiki said,
Slothy said,
Samuel, I am a man. I do not get all that tired after one orgasm. Rather, what fatigues me more, but which I enjoy, is the act of sex itself. An involved physical process that will burn calories. Hell, I prefer my sexual encounters to result in orgasms both for my partner and for myself, and I’ve found that in most of my encounters, I’m capable of sexual arousal again very shortly after my first orgasm. This is because, while there are many similar trends within how human sexuality functions, people are physiologically different. Some men do feel very tired after sex. Some men are ready to go and do more things.
Do note, having energy cycles is not a bad thing. Keeping it all saved up in your balls does not necessarily make you have more energy. In fact, I’d describe it unhealthy not to masturbate for long periods of time.
@Molly Ren
” So, Slothy, why are you protesting people having PTSD?”
Only if it’s for men. Those State funds could be put to better use, like abortion, womens shelters, womens health and so on.
“You’re pretty much saying people with PTSD from other sources are saying they were raped?”
No I am not. Someone came in here talking about all the traumatic stuff that happened to her(?) after some consensual sex, implying it was rape. I said that being traumatized (I guessed it was PTSD) doesn’t automatically make it rape.
Oh Kristinmh one more thing, I actually( andI think other men in my position concur)
feel sexier being celibate and preserving sperm. You get a glow in your eyes. I have so much energy. I feel alive. I want to flirt and be sexy-no to get laid but just to be radiant.
This shit works. A cousin of mine who I haven’t seen for a year said I looked glowing and radiant.Its that glow in a celibate mans eyes that is very sexy. Plus a celibate man is clean and smells sexy. Kapish?
“If I remember correctly, one of the first things one learned in feminism 101 was the story of how the “rule of thumb” came about. Romulus and Remus of ancient Rome declared a man should never use a stick larger than his thumb to beat his wife. Of course Romulus and Remus were mythical, but if feminists say it’s true, it’s gospel. My history is just sooo biongered up.”
It really, really is.
Romulus and Remus is just about founding Rome. That’s it. (Actually, it’s a story with a whole lot of rape in it, not so much about sticks.)
I think the first thing I learned in feminism 101 was about the wage gap, actually.
It’s considered a ‘spiritual belief’ because there’s no evidence it actually works.
Feminism 101 doesn’t exist as a college history course, anywhere. You can’t even make your bullshit sound remotely decent.
“Someone came in here talking about all the traumatic stuff that happened to her(?) after some consensual sex, implying it was rape. I said that being traumatized (I guessed it was PTSD) doesn’t automatically make it rape.”
Slothy, let’s take this apart. If she had sex, and felt traumatized afterwards, where did the trauma come from?
Do you think she is lying about the trauma?
How do you know she consented to the sex?
(Also, dude, this is a long thread. Where the eff WAS this story?)
Keep arguing against those straw-feminists!
Sigh. Responding to the slaveman doesn’t really seem to serve a purpose (he’s too dumb to learn), but some of this shit is too vile to let stand. For the benefit of the lurkers:
In a survey of 1882 men, 120 self-identified as rapists. A majority of these rapists were repeat rapists, and also had high rates of other acts of interpersonal violence. Most incarcerated rapists have similarly high levels of repeat rape and other violent offenses; most incarcerated rapists also share high levels of anger at women, the need to dominate women, hypermasculinity, lack of empathy, and psychopathy. Many rapists have outlets for consensual sex, but rapists are interested in rape, not consensual sex.
This is the background of rape. Not scantily dressed women who constantly bombard men with their sexuality, dumbass.
@NWOSlave.
That is actually a lie about Feminism 101. That is not what is taught in it. The first thing taught in Gender Studies 101 is that there are many feminisms (and other isms) and that it is SPECIFICALLY a spectrum of perspectives to view the world. But hey, prove your ignorance more. Shift the blame like the liar that you are.
See, here is your problem. Your not actually defending yourself. Your just blaming feminism. I’d consider myself having a rational humanist mindset if I were to label myself. I’m saying that you are objectively ignorant. Note, it’s not just feminism that would say that. Science, linguistics, sociology, psychology, legal studies, etc. pretty much disagree with you. Never mind that you still can’t do math. I suppose for you, there must be these little devil women in each of the numbers, messing up your calculations. AND CLEARLY since you believe men can’t control themselves, that you yourself are just unable to control yourself to finish basic calculations.
Cynickal wake me up when you have something to contribute or you learn to read.
And yes, there is no feminism 101. Hence, I said gender studies, which does also discuss feminism, but is not unique only to feminism.
She said she essentially gave in to peer pressure. I don’t think that qualifies as rape.
@Molly Ren
Nuhuh princess. If a man and woman are drinking and they have sex, “he” is responsible for her actions. Otherwise there’d be no such thing as “too drunk” to consent. They can both be equally drunk and “he” has committed a crime. Yes don’t mean yes. The next day, or next year, even after “enthusiastic” consent, yes might mean rape. It all depends on how a woman “feels” at any point in time. Before, she can “feel” sexually assaulted by a mere look, (think hollaback). During, she can say stop and if the stop isn’t immediate it’s rape. After, well many years later she might “feel” like she was raped. It’s the “law.”
“Yes” never means “yes” under womens law, if years later she “feels” differently.
Wait, wait, I got it! SLOTHY THINKS WOMEN JUST HAVE SEX IN ORDER TO HAVE POWER OVER MEN! He totally buys into NWO’s theory about how women just lie about rape in order to throw men in jail! (Because it’s… fun?)
NWO, I’m really sorry no woman will give you the time of day, much less a second look, but you are so fucking vile it’s no wonder. Stupid, ugly, and mean is no way to go through life, son.
And Samuel, if you think he’s right about anything, you’re dumber than a bag of hair.
Molly do you have some straw man quota?
I don’t think she even charged the guy.
ive never heard anyone mention romulus in remus in connection of the rule of thumb before, but
Bradley v. State, Supreme Court of Mississippi 1824
so yeah owlslave is confused again. who is suprised?
Look samuel unless you’re a doctor you can’t really say what caused the glow in your eyes.
@Flib
Anything “you” say must be true, since everything I say is incorrect. Hmmm, woman always right, man always wrong. Where have I heard that before? Oh yea, the State, schools, the MSM, charities. Everywhere. If only men would admit there always wrong there wouldn’t be any misgynists.
Okay, Slothy, I’ll stop prodding you for the fun of it.
It’s true that I really can’t figure out what you’re arguing here, though. I think you need to expand upon it, at the very least. You wrote:
“Someone came in here talking about all the traumatic stuff that happened to her(?) after some consensual sex, implying it was rape. I said that being traumatized (I guessed it was PTSD) doesn’t automatically make it rape.”
This brings up a lot of questions, because you can’t seem to see the contradiction in this statement. Why do you think it *wasn’t* rape, despite the trauma that came *after* the sex? Either a.) you think she is lying about feeling trauma for some reason, or b.) you think people can have sex, feel traumatized afterwards, and yet the trauma isn’t connected to the sex. If she’s not lying, why does she feel traumatized? Is PTSD just something that strikes you randomly?
If there’s another reason I’m not getting, feel free to spell it out for me, because I’m just not getting it.
Hey NWO Flib just said that he’s also a guy.
Well going on her words she appears to be traumatized because of consensual sex. I don’t blame her, I felt cheated and robbed after I bought something out of peer pressure, I’d imagine sex would be a hell of a lot worse. I wouldn’t say that I was robbed though.
@Slavey
More misdirection. You know what I am referencing, right? That you failed to do math. That you failed to qualify your information about Jewish people. That you failed to qualify your statements about Spanish and Russian languages.
I’m going to be clear with you NWOslave. These are not things that are influenced by Feminism. Math has a logical framework, a static population is not existent in a time scale beyond a year. The information you were providing about Jews was demographically wrong by all accounts. Spanish and Russian are linguistically non-related.
This isn’t feminism. This is you being WRONG. There is nothing but facts on the table. Hence, you are ignorant and stupid. You can’t misdirect objective fact.
Slothy, why do you think the sex was consensual? (Also, it might help if you actually link to this story…)
I actually remember what the slaveman is talking about re. the Romulus and Remus rule of thumb thing. More here, in case anyone’s interested.
Bee said “In a survey of 1882 men, 120 self-identified as rapists. A majority of these rapists were repeat rapists, and also had high rates of other acts of interpersonal violence. Most incarcerated rapists have similarly high levels of repeat rape and other violent offenses; most incarcerated rapists also share high levels of anger at women, the need to dominate women, hypermasculinity, lack of empathy, and psychopathy. Many rapists have outlets for consensual sex, but rapists are interested in rape, not consensual sex.
I’ll close with this, The paragraph stated” the need to dominate women, hypermasculinity, lack of empathy, and psychopathy. ”
That is exactly why I absolutely unabashedly refuse to objectify women as objects.Sexual objectification of women by men leads to feelings of possessiveness over women and eventually male sexual assault as indicated in Bee’s paragraph.
If a sexy women walks in front of me . I earnestly will NOT look at her cleavage but look straight into her eyes and see her humanity. She is a person with fears,dreams, interests, she is someones daughter or sister or mother- Not a sex object. To possess.
Many men and even women are finally getting it. Tiger Woods was prominent in that he went to a popular sex addicteion treatment center.
This article is old but appropos http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4302347/
@Molly Ren
“Wait, wait, I got it! SLOTHY THINKS WOMEN JUST HAVE SEX IN ORDER TO HAVE POWER OVER MEN! He totally buys into NWO’s theory about how women just lie about rape in order to throw men in jail!”
No but I totally buy into the theory that 1 in 4 women are officially raped in college, plus an additional 90% who don’t even report it. Which pretty much means every woman is raped 2.5 times in college. Do I have that math correct? Lets see, a college with 1000 women means 250 women are raped in college. Tack on an additional 90%. Since 250 makes up the 10% which are reported an additional 90% = 2250 for a grand total of 2500 rapes. Yup, my math is good. Every woman in college is raped 2.5 times. Go-go gadget math. Damn you ladies are troopers.
I think I misread it the first time but here it is
http://manboobz.com/2011/09/02/is-seddit-teaching-date-rape/comment-page-6/#comment-56948
I thought that 1 in 4 statistic covered the women who don’t report it.
Do you mean this, Slothy? Because “pressuring” and “consent” don’t really go together.
NWO, you do nothing but complain about your life! I’ve never heard you talk about anything enjoyable–what a great weekend you had, how you saw an old friend and how awesome that was, or even that you ate a super-delicious burrito. From your comments here, your life seems to be one long string of hardships and injustice. And yet you would have us believe you are neither a failure nor lonely? Really? I mean, it’s good to have a positive attitude, I guess, but there’s such a thing as denial. Not a river in Egypt and all that…
All right, Slothy, we’re on the same page, then. From the story:
“It must be really nice, never having to have dealt with your boyfriend pressuring you and pressuring you and pressuring you, until you just couldn’t take it anymore and decided to lie back and think of England.”
I think “misread” is the understatement of the year. That doesn’t sound even remotely consensual.
Heres a nice bit of info.
“That’s because if you look at campus sexual violence through a victim-advocate lens, you have to believe vast legions of rapes and assaults go unreported. There’s no other way to explain why the Clery numbers are so low and the Justice Department’s so high. What’s interesting about the 2007 Justice Department report is that its researchers didn’t ask the 5,446 female students who took their online survey if they’d been sexually assaulted. They decided for the young women, who despite their on-campus training and support were deemed too ignorant to know.”
If the numbers are too low, lie. That’s the feminist motto. So if if all you fine feminists actually say, “no I wasn’t raped.” Big Daddy will lie for you. That way you’ll always be a “victim.” Thank you Big Daddy, for caring about women, take our money and make it better.
Samuel, the word you’re looking for capisce, not kapish.
@captainbathrobe
“NWO, you do nothing but complain about your life!”
This entire blog is about women complaining that men aren’t acting the way women demand they act. You are too damn funny.
So you’re what, giving in to peer pressure? I thought you were immune to that, NWO.
You mean read how you misrepresent everything people have been discussing here?
Why should I have to wake you up when you stated that sexing that causes PTDS isn’t rape?
Perhaps you’re not all that important. Or I just enjoy mocking people who are obtuse.
Someday maybe you’ll figure out no one is obligated to perform for you.
Cynickal, I think Slothy may have realized that he’s the one who can’t read. :P
Jesus, Sam from the future: You do NOT agree with me. Stop pretending we’re on the same page. We’re not even reading the same book.
@Molly Ren
“It must be really nice, never having to have dealt with your boyfriend pressuring you and pressuring you and pressuring you, until you just couldn’t take it anymore and decided to lie back and think of England.”
I wonder how many times men didn’t “feel” like it but did it anyways. Ya know why they didn’t consider it rape? Cause it’s not. Duh.
You’re like a radical liberal and conservative wrapped up into one person. I wanna fuck and fuck and fuck but not be shamed. And if you shame me my “feelings” will be hurt so go to jail. You hate freedom. You want to be free to do whatever you want, but at the same time you don’t want to be accountable for your choices. I wanna go have wild drunk sex, but if I feel slighted the next day it’s rape. Waah, waah, waah. I wanna fuck whoever and play fun hook-ups but if one of them bad old PUAs uses me and hurts my precious “feelings” that’s rape. Someone has to pay for my bad choices, I’m a victim. Always.
Samuel 2112:
I am 55 years old. I have spent a lot of years as a feminist, and one of the ways in which that shapes my life is that I refuse to submt to men telling me what to do–which you did, up above there, in all caps (which is considered very rude in internet communication).
I don’t spent a shitload of time talking about rape to and with men: I don’t care about men. I do not do my feminist work in the context of anti-rape activism for work–and I don’t fucking owe you or anybody else an explanation of my reasons for that decision, and for where I put my efforts in feminist work.
I am certainly not going to tell some dickbiscuit on the internet who has suddenly decided omg rape is horrible and erect penis penetrating woman is horrible (as if rape is limited to that, which it isn’t), and OMG what do YOU WIMMINZ think anything except beyond STFU and go spend some time reading all the feminist works on rape and rape culture and stop perpetrating the patriarchal heart that underlies rape culture which is the male assumption that you have a right to demand anything from women, from our bodies to our attention to our sympathies.
@ cpt b
NWO, you do nothing but complain about your life! I’ve never heard you talk about anything enjoyable–what a great weekend you had, how you saw an old friend and how awesome that was, or even that you ate a super-delicious burrito. From your comments here, your life seems to be one long string of hardships and injustice. And yet you would have us believe you are neither a failure nor lonely? Really? I mean, it’s good to have a positive attitude, I guess, but there’s such a thing as denial. Not a river in Egypt and all that…
the other thing i find fascinating about owlslave is that most of the long-term trolls are falling over themselves to point out all the positive* relationships they have with women, but owlslave is pretty much all seething hatred all the time. i dunno if thats more depressing or at least admirably honest of him
*where positive means ‘not total warfare’ i guess
NWO, honey, dearie, darling, consent works both ways. My roommate turns me the fuck on (that beautiful ass of his, dear God), but that doesn’t mean I can have sex with him without his consent. A lot of the things you described are douchey things to do (it is rude in the extreme to laugh at people who ask you out or use them for freebies, and I am against that) or even illegal (assault). As it happens, I am against all of them, except putting someone down as sexual offenders, which I think men should be allowed to do too. As it happens, there are female sexual offenders. Shocking, I know.
Also, yes, I’m a slut. Nine sexual partners over here. I am not sure why you have contempt for me for it. There are a lot of things I do that have more moral weight than my vagina. If a person is kind, holds to their ethical beliefs, creates art, seeks the truth, runs a business that provides useful goods or services… that matters more than whom they fuck.
I must say, I’m curious what possible method of determining whether sex was consensual is possible beyond both partners feeling that sex is consensual.
Slothy: Are you seriously suggesting that people can’t be pressured into having nonconsensual sex? Wow.
“I wonder how many times men didn’t “feel” like it but did it anyways. Ya know why they didn’t consider it rape?”
OOH! OOH! I KNOW! I KNOW! PICK ME!
…The answer he’s going for isn’t “our misandric society erases the existence of male survivors through sexist cultural narratives”, is it.
NWO, don’t change the subject. You claimed that you are neither lonely nor a failure. How is that remotely true?
Oh, is THAT what this blog is about? Fuck, I’ve been doing it wrong, what with my mocking of misogynists (and people who don’t understand contracts).
One more thing, slaveman: Rape is rape, and rape is a crime. Shaming is not rape, nor is it a crime. Feeling slighted sucks, but it’s not rape and it’s not a crime. Making bad choices also is not a crime (necessarily; although making the choice to commit a crime is arguably a bad choice), but if someone’s less than perfect choices create a situation where some predator abuses them, then the predator is still a criminal, bad choices or not.
Another addition for the Book of Learnin:
Law: People who make bad choices should be accountable for their actions, unless the choice they made was to rape someone, in which case, whatever. That whore probably deserved it, what with her flaunting and lack of accountability.
He’s also changing the subject from his failure with objective fact.
@ithiliana
“I don’t care about men.”
Thank you! Finally an honest feminist. At least the feminists of old were honest enough to admit they couldn’t give a damn about men and would more than happily have them hauled off to death camps. Not like the gutless wonders now a days who hide behind “laws” that do the same thing while proclaiming some egalitarian bullshit. None of that what about teh menz fake bullshit.
Samuel 2112: So you have apparently spent a month studying “feminism” and you think that qualifies you to lecture to a blog full of feminists? I have been reading/studying feminism since 1982; I teach feminism and gender courses at the university level, including graduate level. You have absolutely no idea wtf you are talking about.
Betty Friedan wrote The Feminine Mystique not the “feminist mystique.
Her work is not considered in the least radical in the history of feminist ideas, if by radical you mean looking to solve social problems by changing society from the “root:” her solution for white middle class suburban women who were unhappy was to hire someone to do the housework and look after the children while they went back to college. That meant, at that time, to hire women of color to take care of white children (a pretty old and oppressive system which has gone on for centuries in this country and continues today). She didn’t write/care about/acknowledge lesbians, or express any concern in that text (as does every human being except NWO, her ideas changed over the years) with women who didn’t want to get married and have children, nor did she in that work try to imagine any major systemic changes.
There were more radical women in US feminist history (and UK feminist history) way before Friedan: such as Charlotte Perkins Gilman whose works advocated communal (SOCIALIST) living and child care and work, and whose works on the economic systems that supported patriarchy were best sellers–of course, by Friedan’s time, Gilman’s work, life, and publications had been wiped out of the HIStorical records. As with most white feminists, she was unable to deal with issues that were important to women of color.
But there were more radical women than Friedan even in the 60s: google and read about Florynce Kennedy, Toni Cade Bambara, Robin Morgan, and Rita Mae Brown.
In other words, stop mansplaining feminism to a blog of feminists, it’s bloody irritating.
@ozymandias42
“Also, yes, I’m a slut. Nine sexual partners over here. I am not sure why you have contempt for me for it. There are a lot of things I do that have more moral weight than my vagina. If a person is kind, holds to their ethical beliefs, creates art, seeks the truth, runs a business that provides useful goods or services… that matters more than whom they fuck.”
Ozzy dearest, you wallow in shit and piss which you consider sex. Your blog consists of you talking about your pussy. You’re a millionaires daughter whose toughest choice is wether to wallow in piss or shit or both for this evenings festivities. You have no ethical beliefs. Your art is promoting menstrual finger painting. Your “truth” is whatever you “feel” at any given point in time. The “business” you run is talking about your pussy on your blog. You’re going to spend your entire life in college living off of daddies money. And you’re lecturing me?
Unless that’s AT THE SAME TIME I have a hard time considering that slutty. ;)
“It is true, according to the old law, the husband might give his wife moderate correction, because he is answerable for her misbehaviour; hence it was thought reasonable, to intrnst him, with a power, necessary to restrain the indiscretions of one, for whose conduct he was to be made responsible. ”
Today, men still responsible for Women choices but have absolutly no rigth to say anything. She decide to keep or not the baby but he must pay child suport for the women CHOICE. She choose to divorse and he must pay for her choice. She sleep around and have a child with some junky, the husband must pay for the little bastard. etc.
NWO: who were those feminist of old who wanted to haul men off to death camps? There is a huge difference between “not caring about men” and “wanting to kill all the men.”
In other words, citation needed.
What I mean by not caring about [heterosexual] men is that: I do not have sex with men (nor do I want to), and have not since 1982. My partner is a woman. My friends are women (and some gay men). I support myself, and do not need a man for any economic, spiritual, sexual, emotional, or any other need of any sort (well, except when we call to hire a plumber or electrician or roofer etc. they do tend to be men, but damn if there were women to hire, we’d hire them first-like our doctors) My feminist works tends to focus on women (and not only women-born-women, or straight women, or white women)–that is, in any given situation, I am most concerned with the women involved since they are the ones most likely to be oppressed (it differs from situation to situation–white women have more privilege in my professional area than many people of color–but the ones who are absolutely the worst treated in academia are women of color).
But I do not in any way advocate for killing men off, nor do I buy your “the laws are biassed in favor of women” bullshit–not nationally or locally (not in Texas, where I currently live and work). There are a number of feminist activities that I do not actively engage in–one person has only so much time–and those include anti-rape work, and the activism that works with men who are feminists (and men can be feminists–being a woman is not required). Again, it’s not because I want them killed (gee, NWO, I’m just a woman going my own way), but that I consider that in most situations any males around have most of the privilege and attention going to them, so they don’t need me, and I don’t want to have to put up with the whining that so many of them fall into these days.
IIthiliana Stated
I am 55 years old. I have spent a lot of years as a feminist, and one of the ways in which that shapes my life is that I refuse to submt to men telling me what to do–which you did, up above there, in all caps (which is considered very rude in internet communication).
I don’t spent a shitload of time talking about rape to and with men: I don’t care about men. I do not do my feminist work in the context of anti-rape activism for work–and I don’t fucking owe you or anybody else an explanation of my reasons for that decision, and for where I put my efforts in feminist work.
I am certainly not going to tell some dickbiscuit on the internet who has suddenly decided omg rape is horrible and erect penis penetrating woman is horrible (as if rape is limited to that, which it isn’t), and OMG what do YOU WIMMINZ think anything except beyond STFU and go spend some time reading all the feminist works on rape and rape culture and stop perpetrating the patriarchal heart that underlies rape culture which is the male assumption that you have a right to demand anything from women, from our bodies to our attention to our sympathies.
NWO SLAVE said in response Thank you! Finally an honest feminist. At least the feminists of old were honest enough to admit they couldn’t give a damn about men and would more than happily have them hauled off to death camps. Not like the gutless wonders now a days who hide behind “laws” that do the same thing while proclaiming some egalitarian bullshit. None of that what about teh menz fake bullshit.
NWO I am out of here. I tried to debate in a civil way my point of view and I am ignored and now this response from Ithiliana. Goodbye Women on manboobz. You women on manboobz are not feminists in the same vein as Ms. Betty Friedan and Ms. Gloria Steinem and Ms. Andrea Dworkin. Sheesh I am only 43 and was too young to remember these ladies but the newer feminists are no feminists like Ms. Friedan. Ms.Friedan would be displeased with all you women here on manboobz with your “slutwalk” version of feminism.
There are lots of women that would agree with me and my organization NOMAS
http://amangoinghisownway2112.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/toxic-masculinity/
@ithiliana
“There were more radical women in US feminist history (and UK feminist history) way before Friedan: such as Charlotte Perkins Gilman whose works advocated communal (SOCIALIST) living and child care and work, and whose works on the economic systems that supported patriarchy were best sellers–of course, by Friedan’s time, Gilman’s work, life, and publications had been wiped out of the HIStorical records. As with most white feminists, she was unable to deal with issues that were important to women of color.”
Third wave feminists have given black women the feminists utopia. It’s called the ghetto. It’s like 70% single mothers supported by the State. The black men spend their time in prison. Raised with Ozzy ethics by single moms. This is your utopia. Men disbarred from the family, the State footing the bills. Hillary Clinton, it takes a village to raise a child. Those folks are livin the feminist dream. That’s your socialism hard at work.
NWO: I am 33 years old and have never been raped. When I was younger, someone attempted to kidnap and (I would presume) assault me, and did expose himself to me, but I’ve never been raped. I’ve been in college for… eh, quite a few years, including three in the dorms, and was never raped. I am living, breathing refutation of your ‘100% of women are raped in college’ thesis.
Bye, Sammy! I hope your eyes always sparkle, you spiritual non-masturbator, you!