If at first you don’t succeed, grope her
This might work, actually.
Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
Posted on September 2, 2011, in creepy, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, nice guys, PUA, rape, rapey, reddit, sexual harassment. Bookmark the permalink. 858 Comments.
@shaenon you forgot to put under medicine that mammograms cause breast cancer
and CONTRACTS
@Pecunium
“The Rothschillds is the wealthy family of French Vinters.”
The Rothschilds are the decendents of Amschel Moses Rothschild. You’re knowlege of history always sucked. Perhaps this is where you’ve been mistaken. I’ve been talking banking, while you’ve been talking vinyards.
In other news, counter cultural hippies are to blame for priest induced pedophilic crimes, says Catholic Church.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/18/us/18bishops.html?_r=2&hp
@NWOslave
You didn’t answer my question. You know, it doesn’t even matter if they’re on drugs or not. If someone you find utterly repulsive, whether because of their looks, their smell, their behavior, whatever, offers to buy you a drink, and you think they’ll expect something in return, would you really take them up on that offer?
As for taking Doctress Ju’ulia’s word of honor, I see no reason to assume she’s lying.
NWO: Your greatest failing as a thinker, in the realm of gender-politics, is your inability to separate the singular, from the general.
If someone talks about a person, that’s fair; if someone talks about a group, it’s problematic. When they talk about an entire gender, it’s wrong.
You completely, utterly, absolutely, without reservation; nor hesitation, refuse to believe this is possible. A comment about any man; you say is made about each man.
A comment about women you get all bent about, because you confuse it with the comments about this man, or that man.
Guess what… I’ve known some horrible women in my life. I had a couple of girlfriends who treated me like shit. I’ve had women accuse me of things I didn’t do (to which the other women I knew called me and asked what happened because, [contra The World According to NWO, accusation doesn't immediately equal shunning, much less arrest and the ruining of one's life] and then make sure the story didn’t get out of hand).
Those women, are not all women.
That’s where you fail. You lump all people into very narrow classes. We don’t. I realise it may seem that way, because this is a place to talk about one specific set of pathologies, but that’s the real difference between you, and us.
It’s why MRAL, for all his faults, doesn’t get the treatment you get. He has a view of women which is wrong, but he doesn’t lump them all into one category. He admits he may be wrong. That means he is capable of change.
When shown how you are wrong (e.g. the issue of how stats work), you blithely maintain your position.
You are stupid, in the original sense of the word, you travel the world in a stupor… an addled haze of absolute certainty completely divorced from facts, and married to an utter lack of empathy, nor love for your fellow man.
I am, sadly afraid, you are getting the treatment, of each according to his deserts, that Hamlet prayed we would not get. I’d be sad, but that you are in the hell of your own making, where everyone sits down to dine with spoons to long, and cannot feed themselves.
Heaven, you know, is set in the same manner, and the diners feed each other.
You have my pity, but not my sympathy.
owlslave believes the movie national treasure was based on a true story
@KathleenB
“NOT a princess, how many times do I have to say that? Neither I nor my husband fight heavy, so we can’t go for Crown, and thus can be neither Sovereigns nor Heirs.”
I’m assuming when you say Crown you’re meaning is the British Crown. The “Crown” of Brittian has nothing to do with royalty. The “Crown” are the bankers. When you hear the term the “crowns colonies” that denoted the holdings of the bankers, not the royalty of England.
The “Crown” of Brittian is the “city of London” which is the center of the banking houses, not London city. Every year they have a celebration where the “Queen” begs admittance into the “City of London.” She shows defference to the great banking houses.
Sovereignty has nothing to do with royalty.
NWO: Can you not learn of the various interests of your little hobbyhorse. The Rothschilds are more than just a family of bankers. They also happen to own (and have for centuries), some of the best vineyards, and wineries, in France.
Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild, and Mouton-Cadet being the two best known.
But I should, perhaps, have expected that to fly over your head. Subtle isn’t really in your repertoire.
NWO: When she says neither she, nor her husband fight heavy, she is saying they don’t engage in “Heavy Weapons” as a category of combat in the Society for Creative Anachronism.
Which means they never be the ruling monarchs of a region. To be a princess, of course, they would have to win a principality, not a kingdom.
Your understanding of world politics seems a bit lacking.
NWO: The SCA. The Crown of the Midrealm, to be precise, which is the kingdom we play in. I am not going to do your fucking research on this one – google is your friend.
Pecunium: One can be heir to a Kingdom throne, in which case one would ‘Royal Highness.’ Rulers of Principalities are Princes in their own right, but are subordinate to their Kingdom throne, and are simply ‘Highness.’ We don’t currently have any principalities in the Mid, though. Northshield went kingdom quite a few years ago now.
@NWOslave
Britain.
Oh please, everyone knows that the Rothschilds are Illuminati lizard people.
NWO: Your ignorance really knows no bounds, does it? There’s only one t in Britain.
CB and Snowy are, it turns out, absolutely correct about Johnny_B; he is indeed the, er, reincarnation of Ion, who got himself banned from here a while back.
Same IP address.
I originally banned one IP address Ion was posting from; I hadn’t realized he had used another one as well, which is where “Johnny_B” has been posting from.
Well, not any more,. I just banned that one too.
NWO, men have the right to refuse free stuff and/or not flirt with people TOO. This is not that hard to understand.
Kathleen: After the Act of Union, between ScoTland and Great BriTain, they added the T from Scotland.
Sheesh, kids today.
@Pecunium
“If someone talks about a person, that’s fair; if someone talks about a group, it’s problematic. When they talk about an entire gender, it’s wrong.”
My failure is your failure. What’s good for the goose, is good for the gander.
I don’t confuse anything, you will simply stand up for all women no matter what. You prattle on about anything as if you’re an expert. Everyone here will agree with your feminist indoctrination. The knowlege of the entire crew is wiki-knowlege or feminist knowlege, both being oxymorons. You simply spout what some feminist has said verbatim. I doubt you’ve ever had an original thought. Out of the “gang,” your tiresome lecture is that of a tedious teacher reading in a monotone voice, word for word from the teachers edition.
For some reason you believe by attaching the word “conspiracy” to any fact which elludes your limited intelligence you’ve “won” the debate. This is really the best expaination of the entire crew here. Half the time everyone prattles on about, “yea, but why do you hate elephants?” Or some such nonsense. There is no “debate” here at all. None of you can debate. And you Sir Pecunium, are the dullard of the group.
@blitzgal
“Oh please, everyone knows that the Rothschilds are Illuminati lizard people.”
The perfect example of what I said in my previous post. Illuminati lizard people. This is all anyone here has in the way of debate or intelligence, lizards.
In other news, counter cultural hippies are to blame for priest induced pedophilic crimes, says Catholic Church.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/18/us/18bishops.html?_r=2&hp
And I forgot to mention that the guys over at Spearhead blamed WOMEN, that’s right – NUNS of all people – for the abuse the priests meted on children.
Regarding Rothschilds, isn’t Roissy a descendent and that’s why he referred to himself and his blog as “La Chateau”?
@KathleenB
“NWO: Your ignorance really knows no bounds, does it? There’s only one t in Britain.”
Ahhh, I forgot the other, all too important debating supremacy of the gang. We have…lizards, but why do you hate elephants, conspiracy and grammar.
Did I miss anything?
There’s no point in debating you, because you’re a lying jackass. All that leaves is mockery until you start crying about how mean everyone is and flounce out of here.
@blitzgal
“There’s no point in debating you, because you’re a lying jackass. All that leaves is mockery until you start crying about how mean everyone is and flounce out of here.”
Thank you for correcting me for not including the entire roster of debating tactics. Which I will now update to include, “you’re a liar” and insults.
We have…lizards, but why do you hate elephants, conspiracy, grammar, you’re a liar and insults.
NWO: Protip, when attempting to insult, it needs to be provably obvious (as with your innumeracy) or hitting some nerve which the subject is obviously sensitive on.
I will give you points for dogged determination.
NWO, love, this blog is about mocking misogyny. You’re looking for the intelligently debating misogyny blog. You seem to be lost.
Ack, I forgot “flounce.” I will update once again.
We have…lizards, but why do you hate elephants, conspiracy, grammar, you’re a liar, insults and flounce.
owlslave ive stuck up for you on the sppelling thing before because i dont give a fuck about proper spelling on the internet either, but fucking up the name of a country youre trying to lecture other people on is pretty lame
“You’re looking for the intelligently debating misogyny blog. You seem to be lost.”
It would help if he knew how to intelligently debate.
@ozymandias42
“NWO, love, this blog is about mocking misogyny. You’re looking for the intelligently debating misogyny blog. You seem to be lost.”
Ozzy dearest! I’m surprised you could take time off from writing about your pussy. Not the old “misogyny conspiracy” again? But lets take a look at that bad old misogyny.
Here’s Doctress Ju’ulia’s comment which I’ve regendered beneath her original.
“Or, even better, I get hit on by the nastiest, dirtiest, slimiest, most toothless, strung out on heroin guys in the bar. Seriously. Last night I had not one but TWO drunk-ass heroin junkies try to buy me a drink/get my number. They kept trying to touch me and tell me how ‘beautiful’ I am. Ugh. Nice to know that these are, apparently, the highest quality men I can attract. /s”
——————————-
Or, even better, I get hit on by the nastiest, dirtiest, slimiest, most toothless, strung out on crack whores in the bar. Seriously. Last night I had not one but TWO drunk-ass crack whores hit on me to get me to buy them a drink. They kept trying to touch me and tell me how ‘hot’ I am. Ugh. Nice to know that these are, apparently, the highest quality women I can attract. /s
——————————-
Now Ozzy dearest, had I wrote the above the screeching for da crew would’ve reach a fevered pitch of banchee proportions. yet all the gang defended her. Do you now see why I consider feminists foul, vile filth? It isn’t the misogyny that’s a problem. It’s the misandry that literally lusted after in modern day society.
@Sharculese
“owlslave ive stuck up for you on the sppelling thing before because i dont give a fuck about proper spelling on the internet either, but fucking up the name of a country youre trying to lecture other people on is pretty lame”
Yea but why do you hate elephants?
NWO, you don’t substantiate anything you say. You are flat-out, demonstrably wrong nearly all of the time.
You say our knowledge is Wiki knowledge and feminist indoctrination. Bullshit. What you are up against is education–reading widely (from reputable sources, not half-baked conspiracies cooked up by Some Guy With a Website) and thinking critically. You haven’t the faintest idea what any of this is, and you are too arrogant to admit the depth of your own ignorance and wrong-headedness.
Take, for example, your comment on men being excluded from education. You were plainly, demonstrably wrong about that; I didn’t have to Google anything to prove you wrong through my own experience. Yet you still probably believe that men are excluded from education, and I doubt I could say anything that would change your mind.
Or, take the issue of capital letters being “corporate.” You were so wrong about that it was laughable. People who are lawyers for a living ridiculed the very idea that all caps has any bearing on contracts or corporate entities. Yet you persist in asserting that it’s “common knowledge.” No, it’s something that you’ve believed so long that you imagine it to be common knowledge. Your arrogance prevents you from learning anything, because you can never, ever admit yourself to be wrong, even when it’s painfully obvious.
“@KathleenB
“NWO: Your ignorance really knows no bounds, does it? There’s only one t in Britain.”
Ahhh, I forgot the other, all too important debating supremacy of the gang. We have…lizards, but why do you hate elephants, conspiracy and grammar.
Did I miss anything?”
Yeah, you missed spelling.
CB: You forgot that Spanish and Russian use the same alphabet, and Jews proselytise.
Elephants? Christ, I go to Meijer and NWO loses it. What do elephants have to do with anything? I don’t hate them. Don’t much like them, because they’re gigantic shit machines, but don’t hate them, either.
He also forgot, [citation needed]
NWOSlave, KathleenB was talking about the Society for Creative Anachronism. It’s a group whose members meet to play a game where they pretend it’s the Middle Ages and they’re knights and stuff. In that game, they call themselves “King,” “Queen,” “Baron,” etc. She’s a member of that group. When she mentions this, and you go off blathering about how the Crown of England is really super-secretly controlled by the bankers (Jews), without having anything to do with her original topic, it makes you look stupid.
This is why people here say you’re stupid, it’s that you have actively prevented yourself from learning anything that doesn’t touch on your conspiracy theory bullshit. And even then, you don’t know very much—I imagine a really bright conspiracy theorist, someone at the very top of his/her game, would know that the Rothschilds own vineyards, because they’d want to know everything the Rothschilds were up to. Even at conspiracy mongering, you fail.
NWO, if we’re not enough of a challenge, why don’t you go find another group more to your liking? I’m sure there’s a group of feminist hating, conspiracy touting, sovereign citizen fuckwits who love elephants out there somewhere!
I’m alone with my kids this weekend. Two examples is all I can do.
VoiP: We like to think that we recreate the ‘good parts’ of the middle ages – minus the wars, pogroms, non-bathing, plague, etc. But yeah, you’ve mostly got it.
We like to think that we recreate the ‘good parts’ of the middle ages – minus the wars, pogroms, non-bathing, plague, etc. But yeah, you’ve mostly got it.
I just can’t get over the fact that this is yet another thing he’s just laughably, completely wrong about. I’m still half-certain he’s a Poe (how would someone of the age/social group he presents himself as know anything about the “Honey Badger” meme?)
But if he’s real,
NWOSlave, to reiterate: this game is fake. It’s make-believe. Not real. KathleenB has nothing to do with England and its secret banker (JEW) overlords.
VoiP: eh, my grandma was a Brit. Naturalized citizen, of course, for near sixty years, but a Brit nonetheless. Right down to the boiling the roast before baking. But her Yorkshire pudding… to die for.
For antibiotics and anesthetic I give thanks ever day that I live in the modern world.
I don’t even know about the honey badger meme. And I consider myself reasonably familiar with all internet traditions.
@Captain Bathrobe
I know when you speak, or in this case type, you probably believe you know what you’re talking about. Oddly enough, your “opinion” doesn’t translate into fact. Just because “you,” Captain Bathrobe say, “X” is true and “Y” isn’t. Doesn’t really mean anything to me. You’d have to be pretty damn gullible to believe someone if they said, “women were always oppressed.” And of course when you read history you clearly see any “oppression” women faced, men faced a much harshed existance. So of course I would say how could women as a whole be oppressed if men as a whole faced even worse.
You of course couldn’t resist using the old “conspiracy” crap. When I say the UN unfailingly supports feminism and anyone can go to the UN site and see it’s true, guess what? It’s a fact. You seem to have difficulty distinguishing fact from conspiracy. Is your credit card all CAPS, how about your deed to your house, drivers license? Can you change these to lower case letters? If not, why? You didn’t bother to find out, yet you speak as if your an authority. You’re not, therefore, you might as well have farted and written that down. It has the same meaning.
cos he’s already been banned from the other groups. We’re the only friends he has left!!!
You and me both. I had a medieval history teacher say toward the end of class, “I’m sure you’ve all wished at some point that you had lived in the Middle Ages.” I laughed. Loudly. I’m rather attached to bathing, and not killing Jews, not being thrown into a pond or set on fire for being a heretic, missing out on fun plagues, and dentistry.
Excuse me while I go bang my head into a wall repeatedly.
@VoiP
“This is why people here say you’re stupid, it’s that you have actively prevented yourself from learning anything that doesn’t touch on your conspiracy theory bullshit. ”
Well please for give my stupidity in not knowing which “game” you were referring to. I’ll brush up on my middle age gamesmanship immediately. Those bankers running banks conspiracies always get me in hot water. What’ll I come up with next?
And of course when you read history
HOLY SHITBALLS
NWO: I think VoiP’s referring to the SCA as a game – not quite accurate, but close enough for government work. And you still need to do some fucking research, because info on the SCA is piss easy to find online.
We’re talking passed each other NWO. Arguing with you is like playing chess with someone who thinks he’s playing Chutes and Ladders.
Point to the Captain!
@KathleenB
“NWO, if we’re not enough of a challenge, why don’t you go find another group more to your liking? I’m sure there’s a group of feminist hating, conspiracy touting, sovereign citizen fuckwits who love elephants out there somewhere!”
Cause there’s nothing I like more than thrashing the shit out of people who consider themselves intelligent.
Actually, the offer letter last time I bought a house, which is a legally binding contract, had my name using standard capitalization. People cited innumerable examples proving you wrong, NWO.
LOL forever. And some bonus Bea Arthur.
@KathleenB
So in response to my question, “Is your credit card all CAPS, how about your deed to your house, drivers license?” You give me Mel Brooks and the Ten Commandments.
It’s like shootin fish in a barrel. According to feminism, “a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” Let the gender war begin! Woohoo!
@captainbathrobe
“People cited innumerable examples proving you wrong, NWO.”
Well if you consider…lizards, but why do you hate elephants, conspiracy, grammar, you’re a liar, insults and flounce, as citing examples. You are correct, other than that, not so much.
Actually, I don’t ask that you believe me. I ask that you base your ideas, such as they are, on actual evidence.
My cats are more intelligent that you’ve shown yourself to be, NWO. And since you’re talking out your ass, I figured that a little comedy was in order – the lulz you’re providing just aren’t all that high a quality.
Republicans?
You’re…you’re living the dream, owlslave. That is definitely what is happening here.
@KathleenB
Followed in reply to…”Cause there’s nothing I like more than thrashing the shit out of people who consider themselves intelligent.”
I get, A stand up philosopher video.
Really, you folks could make anyone feel like a genius.
In thread where you first stated your Capital Letter theory, people cited numerous examples of legal documents using standard capitalization.
NWO: It’s actually a bullshit artist video – found it appropriate.
@captainbathrobe
“Actually, I don’t ask that you believe me. I ask that you base your ideas, such as they are, on actual evidence.”
When bankers, banking is considered a conspiracy, I doubt the gang believes in evidence. Next thing ya know, crazy ole me will be spouting some jibberish about the Federal Reserve being a private bank. My conspiritoral nonsense knows no bounds.
Never thought of that actually!
@KathleenB
“I figured that a little comedy was in order – the lulz you’re providing just aren’t all that high a quality.”
Well how about this.
How do you tell who loves you more, your dog or your wife?
Lock them both in the trunk for an hour than see which one is happy to see you when you let them out! Misogyny, I just love it!
“I managed to screencap before it was deleted”
You’re taking an individual’s comments and making it seem mainstream when it was in fact deleted by the moderator. In the post about the Jezzibel chicks talking about the extermination of men in the “Why men rape” article, your defense was that it was deleted so it was not their policy.
I have caught you in your own hypocritical web Manboobz! Which is it Manboobz; does it count because it was said or does it not count because it was deleted?
I have argued that MRA sites should have more moderation. I have noticed that you lack sufficient talent to argue against the most pertinent articles. If you look hard enough you can find a comment from anyone that makes them look like a boob to your readers, but you’ll not find an entire article that does so.
Kirk out
One last comment before I hit the sack. I’d like to hear everyones opinion of what obviously shut Ozzy up. So lets find out who is smarter than a first grader, shall we? The first comment is by Doctress Ju’ulia. Now the second one I’ve regendered. And boy does it sound like manboobz mock worthy material. So here’s the question children…Since the regendered version is misogyny extreme, is the original misandry extreme? G’nite all.
—————————-
“Or, even better, I get hit on by the nastiest, dirtiest, slimiest, most toothless, strung out on heroin guys in the bar. Seriously. Last night I had not one but TWO drunk-ass heroin junkies try to buy me a drink/get my number. They kept trying to touch me and tell me how ‘beautiful’ I am. Ugh. Nice to know that these are, apparently, the highest quality men I can attract. /s”
——————————-
Or, even better, I get hit on by the nastiest, dirtiest, slimiest, most toothless, strung out on crack whores in the bar. Seriously. Last night I had not one but TWO drunk-ass crack whores hit on me to get me to buy them a drink. They kept trying to touch me and tell me how ‘hot’ I am. Ugh. Nice to know that these are, apparently, the highest quality women I can attract. /s
Perhaps you could rip this one a new A-Hole:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-lesson-from-history/