Nice Guy Redux: If you’d gone out with me, you wouldn’t have gotten raped.
The contest for the Most Ironic Use of the Term “Nice Guy,” When Applied to Yourself –otherwise known as the MIUTNGWAY Award – is heating up. The previous front runner – the Tumblr guy who compared his inability to get laid to the Holocaust – now faces a serious challenge from a Redditor calling himself DogmaDog.
The other day Mr. Dog wandered into a discussion of the SlutWalks in the Feminisms and offered his two cents: he declared them “stupid,” and suggested that they won’t really help victims.
And then he started in on his own tale of woe.
I know I’m going to be shit on for saying what I’m about to say, but please hear me out.
Not a promising start, Dog.
I’ve never raped a woman, and I’m the ‘nice guy’ who never took advantage of a woman.
Do you want an award for this?
But a girl I was infatuated with in high school blew me off and treated me disrespectfully. She ended up being raped one night, while intoxicated. I do not know how I am supposed to feel about it.
As Don Draper would say, “what?”
How do you think you’re “supposed” to feel? Did you accidentally dislodge the part of your brain responsible for basic human empathy?
Apparently, the answer to that is “yes.”
[H]ow do you suppose I am supposed to feel about this woman I knew who got raped? I mean, I’ve never taken advantage of a woman, but I don’t understand how my ‘friend’, this girl I went to high school with, could go out and party all the time, and in turn treat me, her classmate, as though I were an inferior person for not enjoying the atmosphere of drunkenness at high school parties.
As it turns out, you’re an inferior person for an entirely different reason.
That girl was a mean girl, no? And by being disrespectful toward men, and prejudiced toward men, wasn’t she asking men to behave badly toward her? The only men she gave attention and physical affection to were the ones who hurt her back.
So let me see if I get this: she didn’t go out with you, a “nice guy,” so she was therefore “asking” to be raped?
Naturally, this being the Feminisms subreddit, and not The Spearhead, some of the regular commenters took exception to Mr. Dog’s victim-blaming and his complete lack of empathy for the victim – especially strange, since Dog, who says he is suffering from an (unspecified) mental illness, considers himself “a victim, in my own way,” of prejudice towards those with mental health issues. This experience, alas, has not given him any sympathy towards other vicitms.
Indeed, it seems that DogmaDog didn’t misplace his sense of empathy after all; rather, he threw it out of the house and got a restraining order against it. Responding to someone who suggested he show a little empathy, Dog lashed out:
Your empathy can go suck a dick. Empathy does nothing to help my situation. I suppose that is just the excuse people give themselves so that they can feel like they are actually doing something.
You basically called me an inferior human being because I can’t or won’t empathize for my friend who was raped. Well, ask yourself this, smart-ass, have you ever really wondered what good your empathy does? It does nothing. …
In reality, you are doing nothing but attacking me, and I may or may not have a ‘complex’, even though I don’t know what that is, but I can guarantee you, I HAVE NEVER RAPED ANYONE!!!
The sound you hear is me banging my head, ever so softly, on my desk. Empathy is what connects human beings to one another, what allows them to understand one another on a deep level.
When people are suffering – as you are, Dog, in dealing with your mental illness – a little bit of empathy from someone else can make all the difference in the world.
If you can’t feel even a little bit of sympathy for this woman you were once “infatuated” with, you’re not a nice guy at all; you’re an even bigger asshole than those drunken high school partiers you disdain. You may never have raped anyone — as you’ve repeatedly insisted, as if this should win you a prize – but “in your own way” you’re thinking like an abuser. Your lack of empathy for the victim, your continued bitterness towards her for turning you down, your sense of wounded narcissism; none of this is healthy, for you or for anyone who comes into contact with you.
You need help, dude. Please, please get it.
Posted on August 15, 2011, in bad boys, beta males, evil women, misogyny, nice guys, rape, rapey, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 455 Comments.
Er. People who believe that empathy is useless are people to avoid…
Somehow I am not really surprised at his opinion. Disgusted by it, yes, but not surprised.
Wow…
Empathy is bad.
The things one learns from Nice Guys™.
This dude makes some of the more appalling members of the MRA look good.
“I’m not a rapist” is not enough to get you laid.
If “date me, I’m a nice guy” is “buy my car, it has wheels,” then “date me, I won’t rape you” is “buy my car, it won’t kill you.”
And he still considers this person, who he can’t or won’t (he’s not sure which to choose) have empathy for, his friend. Well, as the saying goes, with friends like him…
It seems like the only way to not deliver a mortal insult to certain guys is to sleep with them. Literally any response other than “okay, we can do it right now” seems to go through the Entitlement Filter and come out as “you are inferior and disgusting and I hate you. *spit, spit*”
Or hell, for all we know she was really rude to him. For all we know she literally spit on him, and that still wouldn’t fucking make it okay that she was raped.
Either Dogma Dog genuinely doesn’t understand the point of the woman’s sign, or he’s so hard-hearted because of his “friend” that the sign aroused resentment in him and he just wants to lash out at it. Personally I suspect the latter, but either way, yeah, he needs help.
Being new to this blog and to awareness of MRAs, it strikes me how they use words and phrases in ways that seem almost completely backwards relative to a normal understanding. They seem to have a whole dictionary’s worth of bizarre, backwards definitions that make the world innately hostile when they try to interact with anyone inhabiting it. Somebody needs to compile a lexicon of the MRA/MGTOW understanding of terms like “Nice Guy”. Here are a couple of proposed entries, based on what I’ve seen so far:
Nice Guy: Not a rapist. Also does not get laid. Hint, hint.
Women’s Rights: Rights denied to a Man.
Disturbing definitions and their implications abound in these people’s writings.
Moewicus – This lexicon could go far.
Marriage: An institution of male slavery and confinement, which is tragically dying out.
Custody: Freedom from paying child support.
Hey, he has a point about empathy. It leads to Nazism, you know. (Seriously, if anyone hasn’t heard this ridiculousness, Google “glen beck + empathy”.)
Jeez. Yet another dickwad thinks that displaying the bare minimum of human decency makes him some kind of saint. Maybe we should add this to that list of examples of male privilege:
#XX: The bar is set so low for your behavior that if you refrain from doing something heinous, people will give you accolades as if you had done something extremely noble.
By “people” you mean the tiny handful of MRAs in the world, as opposed to the other 6,999,999,500 people on the planet?
Your attempt to paint this as male privilege FAILS, asshole.
Wow. MRAL called me an asshole. I must be doing something right.
MRAs, sadly, do not have a monopoly on assholery.
Hell, this guy in the OP isn’t an MRA, as far as we know. He’s just a garden variety misogynist.
No, he’s a victim.
Let’s look at this logically, a novel idea for feminists. The fact that he privately doesn’t care whether someone was raped doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s his business. On the other hand, pointlessly cruel rejection does hurt someone. Thus, pointlessly cruel rejection is worse than not caring if someone was raped.
Basically, yes.
Cynickal: Hey, self…
Cynickal Self: Yeah?
Cynickal: Have you ever really wondered what good your emapthy does?
Cynickal Self: Makes me a better human being that can relate to other people and perhaps understand their situations and experiences.
Cynickal: That’s it?
Cynickal Self: Well, that and it allows me to use shared experience to create a connection that has often help foster teamwork and a sense of community so that I could work with people of different backgrounds.
Cynickal: Huh.
Cynickal Self: …
Cynickal: So, you going to eat that?
Cynickal Self: Fuck you, dude! Make your own sam’ich!
What man-hating sexists like Futrelle refuse to recognize is that the MRM is a movement for EQUALITY. Women consent with their silence to the feminist war on men and boys. Why should men feel responsible for the safety of women? The same women who say nothing when feminists campaign to throw fathers who fall behind on child support into prison (not jail) for many years (not days) on felony (not misdemeanor) charges? The femi-fascists have already succeeded in changing the law in 30 out of 50 states so that falling behind on child support is a felony with years or decades of imprisonment. The NOW is currently campaigning to have Rhode Island become the newest “felony” state, where men are thrown in prison for decades because they lose their jobs and fall behind on child support:
http://rinow.org/legislative-agenda/2011-legislative-agenda-draft-as-of-21411/
When you support man-haters like Futrelle, this is the kind of madness you support. Throwing fathers in prison for decades because they lose their jobs. Feminists will never wash the blood off their hands for the violence, rape, torture, and abuse that these fathers will receive in PRISON. Neither will you, if you continue to support man-haters like Futrelle.
Go to the source. Read the words of the feminist man-haters themselves. Read as they ask for hard prison time for dads who lose their jobs. Read and open your eyes.
Men’s Rights: Equal treatment under the law and equal protection of government.
Feminism: Hate
MRAL – Speaking of logic, how about consistent standards here?
The fact that he privately doesn’t care whether someone was raped doesn’t hurt anyone.
Okay, but then the fact that we think he’s an asshole doesn’t hurt anyone.
On the other hand, pointlessly cruel rejection does hurt someone. Thus, pointlessly cruel rejection is worse than not caring if someone was raped.
What if I don’t care if he was pointlessly cruelly rejected?
Who does that hurt?
….whut? What the fuck, MRAL? If he doesn’t care about his ‘friend’ getting raped, why the fuck should any of us care about him?
And it does fucking hurt people, you jackass. If your friend got, i dunno, assaulted and mugged, you don’t think it would hurt them if you said “So? What of it”? If god forbid you got raped, you think it would be painless to have the people around you act as if it doesn’t matter? Fuck you, asshole.
Oh fucking hell. Is the bar for victimhood that friggin’ low in MRAland? Being rejected by a girl he was infatuated with in high school doesn’t make him a “victim”, you putz.
I do find it interesting that he keeps calling her a “friend”. If I feel like someone has mistreated me so badly that I feel no empathy for them being a real victim of a real crime, I don’t consider them a “friend” and I would never address them as such. Even though he puts quotes around the word at one point, how could he have thought she was a friend at any point if she looked down on him so much.
There is one fair point he does have…
High school is shitty, and if you don’t act in the right way or go to the right parties, you are a pariah. But that has nothing to do with this one girl or women in general. It’s to do with how shitty humanity is as a whole at that age in that place.
Looks like MRAL needs to read less Heinlen and more P. K. Dick.
Maybe it wuold give him some ideas on what it means to be human. Because right now, he’s failing.
Um…. Holly’s post is hard to process.
Of what, exactly? Taking his exact words, the girl he hoped to date treated him “disrespectfully” (and not, I might note, with “pointless cruelty.” Those are your words, not his). That sucks, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it makes him a victim. If I’m shopping, and the store only has one of the item I want, and someone else elbows me aside in order to get to it ahead of me and then shoots me a smug, condescending look as they grab it, have I been victimized? Of course not. I have encountered a jerk and must try my luck elsewhere. That’s not victimization, that’s life.
You do realize that these laws are intended for THE State to be refunded the cost of providing child care for Scoff-Laws who refuse to take EQUAL responsibility for the care and support of they children they created then abandoned, don’t you?
Of course not. It doesn’t fit into your ideas that men should be free of all rights and responsibilities while having “mommy” take care of their every need.
You seem to be putting words in their mouths. Are the courts banning unemployed from petitioning them to have their child support reduced due to unemployment? Or are you pulling shit out of your ass and flinging it at the walls hoping it’ll stick?
Or is it just that you like seeing tens of thousands of your tax dollars going to guys who abandon their children?
Well, a) Saying something on the Internet isn’t “privately”.
b) Of course it will hurt someone! I guarantee you that there were some people reading that thread who’d had experiences similar to the one that happened to that girl. Do you really think they won’t be hurt when they see this smug guy saying that he doesn’t care? You do not like it when you feel that others are discounting the seriousness of your experience… why do you think other people aren’t like that too?
I don’t know if this is what Mr. Al is referring to, but in the original thread, the guy talks a little about how he’s a victim not because the girl turned him down but because of the way he’s been treated because of his disability. It’s really light on details, and from the way he (over)reacts whenever anyone says boo to him, I’d wager that a lot of his victimhood is based on things that haven’t happened in reality and only exist in his mind.
In any case, that’s what the guy is talking about when he calls himself a victim.
Are you guys smart enough to understand that Redux is a Dating Blogger and NOT a Men’s Rights Activist? If you want to see what Men’s Rights activists are asking for, go to the source. The four largest MRM sites are:
the-spearhead.com
antimisandry.com
avoiceformen.com
falserapesociety.blogspot.com
Nobody on ANY of these sites complains about “felling bad about rejection”. What a joke. Futrelle’s preferred method of distortion is to fabricate a “false” MRA and then demolish him in public. Underhanded, dishonest, but ultimately pointless. Why do you want to waste your time fighting an illusion? Why not find out what the Men’s Rights Movement is first, and then decide how you feel about it?
@MRAL It’s not private. He’s displaying his thoughts publicly.
Anthony, please point out where Futrelle called Redux an MRA.
Is Anthony Zarat smart enough to understand that this site is about making fun of misogyny wherever it is found and not only in MRMland, and that David never represented Dog as an MRA?
Eh, prolly not.
Already did. Felt kinda queasy, thanks.
First of all, look to your right. No, your other right. Every site you listed is both recognized and, at times, cited by the host of the blog and its participants.
Secondly, look up. Way up. right at the the top of the page. What does it say there?
The point is to mock misogyny, where ever it may appear. If it appears on an MRA site, guess what? We mock it. If it appears on a dating blog, guess what? We mock it. If it appears on a blog written by a woman (see: Susan Walsh), guess what? We mock it.
We mock misogyny.
Now, if you feel that the Men’s Rights Movement is incomplete or ineffective without misogyny, that’s a conversation for a different thread. If you feel that many of the issues highlighted by the Men’s Rights Movement are not, inherently, misogynistic, then you may be surprised to find some feminists on this site that agree with you.
If you want to explain why the OP is not misogynistic, then have it. I think MRAL is probably lonely.
I have read those sites. They are worse than this post, actually. I have decided that the MRM is the Stormfront, but with a special focus on women in general, and feminists in particular.
Also, the MRM is a lot less organized than the Stormfront or the KKK.
@cynickal
How does it save tax payer dollars to put fathers in prison for decades? It costs tax payers $120,000 per year to keep a father in prison, after losing his job. It costs the tax payer nothing to leave him free — for example, free to look for a job.
Are you suggesting that fathers are intentionally losing their jobs, so that they can avoid paying child support? Do you have any idea how difficult life is for a homeless man?!?
Do you know that fathers under a child support obligation are LESS likely to be unemployed than the general population? Fathers do everything they can to stay employed. What use is it to put these men in prison for decades when they fail? Is there no bottom to the hate in your heart? Do you have the capacity for compassion?
Child support modification? What planet do you live on? You think an American judge will grant a father a modification after the father loses his job? In the age of Misandry and feminist hate?
As to responsibility, why not put mothers in prison for 14 years when THEY fall on hard economic times? Oh no!!!! We throw tax payer money at mothers “in need” like it grows on trees. Your double standards are as commonplace as they are hateful and bigoted.
Bee, DogmaDog said in another comment that he’s been diagnosed with “undifferentiated schizophrenia”, which is not something that I know much about. Just guessing that it’s one of those “catchall” terms that psychiatrists use when they’re not really sure what the problem is… anyway, it does seem to be widely accepted that “empathy deficits” and schizophrenia tend to go hand-hand-in hand.
The girl liked to party, and the guy didn’t. It sounds like they would have been a mismatch anyway. I don’t judge high school students that party, because I liked rowdy parties back in the day. I usually dated other guys that partied because they were more fun to me, and some of the more straight laced guys didn’t like girls that drank. It’s more fun to be around people if you have more in common.
He says she was interested in bad guys, but what kind of boyfriend would he be? He thinks empathy is pointless. He is apathetic that his friend was victimized. He assumes that the popular party guys are all jerks, but he never looks in the mirror to examine his own self. You might be surprised to find out sometimes the popular quarterback is a genuinely nice person, and the shy guy is a major league asshole. You can’t judge people based on stereotypes from high school movies.
Speaking of putzes…
This is particularly rich coming from the person who is accusing “femi-facists” of trying to get unemployed men thrown into prison.
Cognitive dissonance has found its apex.
Child support adjustment and modification are not only available they’re suggested as the best way to deal with involuntary changes in income due to unemployment and other types of involuntary loss of income.
Now, I have a great deal of compassion for fathers and believe that we should be encouraging more resources and legal aid for fathers who want to work with the system and need guidance and assistance dealing with the paper work and filing.
‘The fact that he privately doesn’t care whether someone was raped doesn’t hurt anyone’
How about the fact that he publicly stated she deserved it? Seems a lot worse than some piddling little perceived rejection from highschool he’s still seething over. He’s not a victim, he’s an asshole.
Nobinayamu, well said. And IIRC, it’s been pointed out repeatedly, here and at other feminist sites, that hounding “deadbeat dads” isn’t the most humane or efficient way to get mothers and children taken care of. The states that are the harshest in this area are the most conservative, least-feminist influenced ones. IMO, they’re motivated not by feminist concerns but by the misguided, outdated belief that men are always and must be the breadwinners.
“Now, I have a great deal of compassion for fathers”
A feminist saying he/she feels compassion for fathers is like a slaughterhouse saying they have compassion for cattle.
1) Why do family courts routinely discriminate against fathers in custody disputes?
2) Why do mothers who (voluntarily) deny visitation receive a verbal reprimand, while fathers who (involuntarily) lose the ability to pay child support end up in prison?
3) Why is there a “Violence against women act” when men are 4 out of every 5 victims of violence in America?
4) Why are there 90 commissions, offices, and departments dedicated to “women’s health” and ZERO for men, when men suffer more, earlier, and more severely from every know disease and debility except breast cancer?
5) Why are there 700 women’s studies departments, paid for by your tax dollars, and only ONE male studies department (which is privately funded)?
These are the issues of the MRM. Nobody gives a shit about dating except the fools on this board, who have nothing better to do.
Equal protection under the law and equal protection of government.
“Child support modification? What planet do you live on? You think an American judge will grant a father a modification after the father loses his job? In the age of Misandry and feminist hate?”
Your ignorance is unsurprising.
“As to responsibility, why not put mothers in prison for 14 years when THEY fall on hard economic times? Oh no!!!! We throw tax payer money at mothers “in need” like it grows on trees. Your double standards are as commonplace as they are hateful and bigoted.”
If the mother is the primary caretaker, she isn’t paying child support; that’s not a double standard, that’s a recognition of facts.
But you know, I really don’t like Child Support as a system. I want to replace it with a small income tax on everyone, and all parents get the money back. It avoids child support fights, and helps all kids (And therefore, all people, after a generation).
@Tabby
I posted a link to the National Organization for Women site where they are actively lobbying to have fathers thrown in prison for being late on child support. Please click the link. Are you are afraid that doing so will cause your ideological feminist edifice to crumble as you read the words of your fellow feminists, calling for prison time for unemployed fathers?
“But you know, I really don’t like Child Support as a system. I want to replace it with a small income tax on everyone, and all parents get the money back. It avoids child support fights, and helps all kids (And therefore, all people, after a generation).”
Wonderful suggestion. It would allow fathers to have the same reproductive rights as mothers. When a mother does not want her life to be impacted by a child, she has that right. MRAs have been asking for the same right for fathers for years.
However, understand something: feminist man haters will fight against this every step of the way. They will march against it. The words of shame and blame will blossom and the fears of female game will flow. Have no doubt, even if every other force in America were to stand behind such a proposal, it has zero chance of passing. The military industrial complex, organized religion, the Tea party and the tiny insignificant squeak of the MRM would be drowned out by the roar of feminist power, if their ultimate privilege were ever challenged.
Hey, I’m a feminist who has a father she loves very much. I also quite a few guy friends who are fathers, I’ve dated men who are fathers, and have been encouraged, taught and nurtured by various father figures (some of whom had children, some of whom did not) for my entire life. Take your trite, cliched, suppositions about how I feel about fathers somewhere else.
As to your off topic questions/assertion, I could go through them one by one. I may very well debunk them later; it depends on my mood. But really, what’s the point? You’ve already asserted, without citation and completely erroneously, that fathers do not have access to child support modification. You’re either ignorant, a liar, or both.
You’re ideas are not new here. There’s nothing you’ve written that hasn’t been discussed and/or debunked, ad nauseum, on this blog. I had a long weekend. It’s going to be an even longer week. If you can’t research simple information like child support modification and/or adjustment, how fruitful a dialogue is even possible?
Typos! “I also have quite a few friends…” and “Your ideas are not new here…”
Also, you do realize that the suggestion you referred to as “wonderful” was made by a feminist, right?
“1) Why do family courts routinely discriminate against fathers in custody disputes?”
Trick Question; family courts side with both parents 50/50 in a *DISPUTED* Custody. Fathers don’t fight for custody nearly as often as mothers.
“2) Why do mothers who (voluntarily) deny visitation receive a verbal reprimand, while fathers who (involuntarily) lose the ability to pay child support end up in prison?”
I’ve seen papers served to my mother, actually. I’m not sure if you can go to prison, but it’s certainly not ‘just a verbal reprimand’. That’s either the basis for a civil suit or an actual crime.
“3) Why is there a “Violence against women act” when men are 4 out of every 5 victims of violence in America?”
That seems questionably high. The DoJ website is down so I can’t check it, but in short, “Because most violence against women is a symptom and a cause of oppression, whereas most male/male violence, while tragic, stems from crimes of passion” would be my guess.
“4) Why are there 90 commissions, offices, and departments dedicated to “women’s health” and ZERO for men, when men suffer more, earlier, and more severely from every know disease and debility except breast cancer?”
Because men are the ones who benefit foremost from general advances to begin with, both due to bias in the medical system and, if true, their higher incidence of ‘every disease and debility’?
“5) Why are there 700 women’s studies departments, paid for by your tax dollars, and only ONE male studies department (which is privately funded)?”
Because most social sciences are already dominated by the male perspective, so a male studies department would be at best redundant.
BTW, Anthony Zarat, in case you don’t believe me, here is the Evil Queen of the Entire Universe on the same topic…
And no, “feminists” would not march against a better, fairer system for supporting children. We’re pragmatic that way.
The girl liked to party, and the guy didn’t. It sounds like they would have been a mismatch anyway.
But she was hot and he hasn’t raped anyone! What more does a relationship need?
Sigh… as soon as I read this post, I was counting down the seconds until MRAL appeared to defend the guy.
@Nobinayamu
Facts really make you upset, don’t they?
” … fathers do not have access to child support modification … ”
The 14th amendment states that “no state shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws”.
This has not prevented feminists from passing thousands of laws that openly discriminate against men.
Years ago, this did not prevent women from being the victims of thousands of laws that openly discriminated against women.
You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.
Men face openly hostile and discriminatory civil courts, as well as a number of openly discriminatory laws, when they do the unthinkable and fight for custody of their children.
Ultimately, the MRM is more than anything about a father’s rights to be a part of his children’s lives. The only thing that feminists hate more than fathers is to be forced to admit that they hate fathers. Because, the hatred of men and fathers is at the heart of the feminist movement.
But then again, you know this. Or you would not be here.
FUCK YOU RUTEE! FUCK YOU
excusewes ex cuses for bullshiut IT’SALLWAYSworse for women. FUCK THOSEBITCHES
‘You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.’ A. Zarat
Translation: You want me to actually back my shit up with facts? Why would I do that when it’s easier to pull inflammatory ‘facts’ out of my ass?
Child support modification? What planet do you live on? You think an American judge will grant a father a modification after the father loses his job? In the age of Misandry and feminist hate?
Child Support Modification:
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/support/supforms.htm
http://www.alacourt.gov/pdfppt/rule32.pdf
Two states, completely random and opposite view points on women-both have child support modification rules/paperwork for men to choose to use.
Planet I live on:
I live on Earth. The one with the United States of America, whose Supreme Court just recently ruled on the issue of support modification. Here is the decision
American judge will grant a modification:
here is an actual case of a judge agreeing with the father and quashing a required amount of support.
In fact, here is an order giving custody of the child to the father with a finding the mother LIED to the court.
I apologize insincerely for trashing your worldview.
So… Anthony. You pretty much ignore what people say, move the goalposts and rant. Is that about it?
Anyway, back to DogmaDog… I got the impression that he vaguely believes that he’s supposed to have empathy, but doesn’t really understand the how’s and why’s. The bit about “how do you suppose I am supposed to feel” was quite telling, I thought. I.e., he knew intellectually what kind of response was expected of him, but hadn’t really internalized the reasons why people feel that way.
‘Let’s look at this logically, a novel idea for feminists.’
‘excusewes ex cuses for bullshiut IT’SALLWAYSworse for women. FUCK THOSEBITCHES’ Mral
So much rage…so little logic. When your mindset and emotional level prevent you from not mashing the keyboard with your fists in response to someone, you should probably take a step back and reconsider your tactic. Probably your beliefs too.
“Facts really make you upset, don’t they?”
Well, what you did was make an assertion. You might be correct, but we have no reason to think that just because you said it. If you really want to back up your opinion, you source it. Now, I recognize I didn’t, but I’m not screaming about your not taking me at face value, now am I?
“The 14th amendment states that “no state shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws”. ”
Whoa, holy Quote Mine, Batman. She said you said it, not that it’s true, you stupid jackass. Quite the opposite, she said that your statement was wrong.
“This has not prevented feminists from passing thousands of laws that openly discriminate against men.”
That seems almost absurdly high. Why not support this statement with you know, something to substantiate your claim?
“You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.”
Um, you’re stating that the vehicle by which the institution discriminates is not merely passive acceptance of the status quo, but by actively enshrining that discrimination in the law. That would in fact mean, if true, that the laws would be there to be researched and reported back. If you haven’t already done the research, what makes you think your previous claims are true?
“Ultimately, the MRM is more than anything about a father’s rights to be a part of his children’s lives.”
Well that’s a blatant lie. We’ve seen far more from them about returning to more strongly enforced traditional gender roles and the putting of women back in their place than we ever have about fathers.
“The only thing that feminists hate more than fathers is to be forced to admit that they hate fathers. ”
Um, no, I couldn’t care less about fathers or mothers abstractly. I certainly don’t hate or love either.
“Because the hatred of men and fathers is at the heart of the feminist movement.”
You think we campaign for equal rights and equal pay because we hate men? You’re an arrogant, self-important little jackass, aren’t you?
“FUCK YOU RUTEE! FUCK YOU”
Well that was a well-reasoned and supported argument. Still angry about being an irritating twerp with nothing of value to add to a discussion, MRAL? Because this isn’t how you fix that.
You know, I keep seeing those claims about family court bias, I think I should at least add custody statistics to my kyriarchy library.
You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.
So essentially you mean “I have to work?! I better claim that even if the law contradicts me (which for the record it does) it does not matter cuz of MAGIC.”
Instead of ranting and raving here about it-go off to the blog that Ozymandia’s created and work to get those issues you have difficulty with resolved.
@mediumdave
“here is the Evil Queen of the Entire Universe on the same topic…” — mediumdave
“throwing men in jail for not paying child support is just stupid…” — Amanda Marcotte
The reason she is the Evil Queen is precisely because she says one thing, and then does another. She is a staunch supporter of the National Organization for Women … which is conducting the hate war against men and boys, including the campaign to throw fathers in prison when they lose their jobs.
Also note that Marcotte never says that throwing fathers in prison is WRONG … she says it is stupid. Stupid because mothers never see another dime after the man goes to prison. Stupid because, even when he gets out, he is permanently unemployable because of a felony conviction.
Not wrong because a harmless father who is out of luck gets thrown to the dogs and gang-raped by violent criminals for decades. Not wrong because tax payers have to foot a multi million dollar bill that “buys” nothing but gratuitous torture of another human being.
Marcotte stays it is stupid because women benefit more from a man in a prison of indenture than they do from a man in a prison of steel.
Are none of you afraid there may one day be a wages of hate to be paid for your evil?
Whoa, MRAL, what’s with the screaming profanities? No, isn’t always worse for women. However, it is worse to be the victim of a violent crime than to be turned down by someone you find attractive. Does it sting to get turned down? Absolutely. But that experience does not compare with being the victim of a violent crime. I personally have been turned down numerous times. It stings, but it doesn’t prevent me from having empathy for a person who turned me down when I hear they have experienced something horrible in their life.
*hands MRAL an ice cream cone*
You might want to take a break munchkin.
Also, I would love to see the source for this “decades in prison” meme you are pushing Mr. Zarat. Even the SCOTUS case had the guy in jail for a year. It was problematic that he was there but it was not “decades.”
Anthony Zarat wrote:
The legislation in question changes the felony arrears level from 10,000$ to 5,000$ dollars. Let me quote from the legislation in question, s0023:
http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/billtext11/senatetext11/s0023.pdf
To sum up, the legislation itself states that those who are able to do so must pay the child support (ruling out unemployed persons, or at least ruling out unemployed persons without means) and sets the maximum prison sentence at five years. You, on the other hand, represented the legislation as designed to punish unemployed fathers and as putting said men in prison for decades. Why should anyone take anything you say seriously?
“You’re an arrogant, self-important little jackass, aren’t you?”
Why are feminists so angry when men’s rights activists ask for EQUAL treatment under the law?
Men’s Rights: Equal treatment under the law and equal protection of government.
Feminism: Hate
He’s just trying his hand at a bit of peacockery…. seems he has to kick it up a notch whenever another MRA blowhard joins the thread.
Are none of you afraid there may one day be a wages of hate to be paid for your evil?
Oh yeah, I’m shaking with terror.
Oh wait, that’s laughter.
“So essentially you mean “I have to work?! I better claim that even if the law contradicts me (which for the record it does) it does not matter cuz of MAGIC.”
Whoa, whoa, he could have had a point here in theory if he wasn’t claiming that the laws were themselves written to discriminate. Legally we have equality for all genders and races encoded in the law, but in practice, we have institutional biases. The thing is, institutional bias isn’t actually a get out of jail free card when you specifically say that the laws themselves are unequal.
This isn’t generally a problem for feminists, because the inequality of abortion laws is self-evident to thinking people. But he specifically claimed the laws themselves, and not merely the legal system, were biased against men; that needs to be sourced.
“Why are feminists so angry when men’s rights activists ask for EQUAL treatment under the law?”
ARe you illiterate? I said that because you claimed that the feminist movement’s core was anger at men, not, you know, fixing inequalities that plague women.
“Men’s Rights: Equal treatment under the law and equal protection of government.
Feminism: Hate”
Oh, you’re from Bizarro World, I see.
@Moewicus
“You, on the other hand, represented the legislation as designed to punish unemployed fathers and as putting said men in prison for decades.”
No. The NOW campaign has resulted in cases (Idaho) of decades long imprisonment for late child support.
I used Rhode Island as the CURRENT example, because this is the state that the National Organization for Women is currently focussing on. The feminist war on men and boys has been ongoing for many years, I cannot possibly highlight every case of feminist hate here. There is not enough space in a library for such a catalogue of horrors.
Here are the details of the Rhode Island feminist hate campaign:
1) Before the NOW campaign, Rhode Island imposed a ” … six months in prison for a misdemeanor …” See source below.
http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=16445
2) Now, Rhode Island is a felony state, with a maximum of 5 years for late child support (as you discovered). This is not enough hate for the NOW, which is attempting to have the arrears limit decreased from 10,000 to 5,000:
http://rinow.org/legislative-agenda/2011-legislative-agenda-draft-as-of-21411/
If you want to continue to live in a bubble and ignore the FACTUAL EVIDENCE that feminists are engaged in a gendercidal war of annihilation, that is your business. But, the information WILL be made available to you, and you WILL be made to know the magnitude of the horrors that you are supporting.
Question to all you man haters: WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS TO A FATHER WHO IS THROWN IN PRISON FOR CHILD SUPPORT NON PAYMENT? Any idea what the violent predators inmates will do with this poor person? Do you think for a SECOND that the NOW does not know this? Is this the kind of campaign that you want to support?
Are you proud of what you are doing here? Are you proud of the horror, the pain, the agony, the cruelty that you are inflicting on fathers who lose their jobs?
What kind of person do you want to be?
Zarat said, “Are none of you afraid there may one day be wages of hate to be paid for your evil?”
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say, but it sounds like it should be a line in Star Wars. I could imagine Obi Wan Kenobi saying that to Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
I did not “wander into the lair of the Devil” by accident. I came here knowing what to expect.
Here is my promise: I will leave you alone to stew in your hate if ONE of you will answer this question, that I asked before:
WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS TO A FATHER WHO IS THROWN IN PRISON FOR CHILD SUPPORT NON PAYMENT? What will violent inmates will do with this poor person? Do you think for a SECOND that the NOW does not know this? Is this the kind of campaign that you want to support?
You are supporting rape, violence, and horror on an industrial scale. But I wonder if even one of you can bring yourself to answer? What will happen to a father in prison? What will they do to him? What will his existence be like? How many cigarettes will “spending time with him” cost?
Are you proud of who you are? Of what you are supporting? Of making fun of the tiny number of men and women MRAs who are trying to stop this madness?