Again, Chuck, I didn’t write the ridiculous screed about women being bullies. You did. Pseudo-intellectual efforts at deflection don’t change that. Still, it’s understandable. If I wrote something like that, I wouldn’t try to defend it, either.

And I’m not really arguing with you; I’m taunting you. People who write ridiculous things deserve ridicule, nothing more. When you write something of substance, then maybe I’ll engage with you seriously.

Pro tip: you’re best bet here is simply not to respond to me. But can you resist the temptation? I await your response…or not.

So on what basis did our MRA friends decide that this post was aimed at them? Curious.

Gosh, it seems a little…narcissistic, or something.

kristinmh, you give the best advice!

*puts on sexy dragon mcdonalds uniform and starts pouncing on men in a submissive fashion while cleaning the house!*

@ Captain Bathrobe

Captain bathrobe said: Actually, RB, you’ve been gone so long that the whole “dogs in a bag” meme is now ancient history.

RB: Yeah, no one values the classics anymore.

Captain Bathrobe: Nevertheless, we eagerly await new fruits of your fertilized, er, fertile mind. And, what I’m supposed to be a Castrato now? I’ve never even taken voice lessons.
Talk about a wasted opportunity.

RB: I was referring to a way old post where you mentioned getting rid of your toxic sort of mansculinity (if I remember correctly), anywho water under the bridge and all.

Captain Bathrobe: Besides, RB, this is Big League Manboobz. I’m only a small fish here. You’ll want to be trying your stuff out on Ami, Spearhafoc, Pecunium, Kirby, Holly Pervocracy, Johnny Pez and the rest. Captain Bathrobe is so six months ago.

RB: You mean David’s managed to attract an even lower class of feminst than A MAN da “How about some pics of spear chuking Africans attacking white people” Marcotte? Wow, David must be ecstatic.

Captain Bathrobe: There’s also plenty of troll competition, so you’ll have to bring your “A” game. No more half-assing it. Think you’re up to the challenge?

RB: I will try sir, er, maam, er whatever a male feminst considers “himself.” Now educating the retarded and hysterical, aka feminists, is difficult, but hey, I like to give back to the community and anytime someone becomes an ex feminist it’s a win for all decent people anywhere.

Until we snipe at each other again,

Random Brother

Hating feminsts since 1985.

Still with the girly-man references, RB? Oh, man, you don’t even know what you’re in for…

Excuse me while I go pop some popcorn.

I got an SB a couple of times (various functions of schooling, and military training).

They said I was smart. But even with a good tester the SB starts to fall apart for accuracy much past about 120 (i.e. one standard deviation) and the most one can say of a score in excess of 130 is, “Damn, yer smart dude”.

RB, Male feminists call themselves men. People who feel threatened by feminists attempt to insult them (mangina/girly men, etc.). But insults are tricky to analyze, because absent context the purpose behind them (defensive, posturing, personal animus, reactive response) is so hard to recognise.

Though there are styles of insult (see above, re mangina, etc.), which are indicative, if not actually dispositive.

Sure, feminists are fat and ugly, sure, we’re promiscuous even though no one will sleep with us, sure, we’re all the opposite gender than we say we are.

But are we wrong?

Wow, hating us since 1985!!! I’m… not impressed.

Captain Bathrobe: Can you be Random Brother’s translator? I get the sense that he’s constantly referencing things from the days of yore.

I’m old enough to remember when trolls went by random strings, but not old enough to remember him.

Ami said: Hey it’s Random Brother!

I dunno who you are, but I know you’re a former troll from one of the early MBZ seasons… ppl dun rly talk about the old trolls (except Eoghan since he still shows up xD and occasionally I’ve heard David mention Cold) If you stick around I’m pretty sure we’ll get to know each other quite well tho xD A lot has changed while you were gone!

*holds out hand* Hi! I’m Ami, I’m the Rodeocat :3

RB: Wow, your politeness is. . . unsettling. Though I’m not a troll, just against feminism.
Hello Ami, Random Brother, they loyal opposition.

Random Brother

The xbox 360 open tray error is driving me nuts.

You are indeed welcome to sound like an imbecile and, consequently, be treated like one if you prefer.

So, are there any MRAs who are writing about the movement and its philosophies without all the subtle and/or overt bigotry or directly from the perspective of minority men?

Because I’d be really interested in reading that.

@ NWOslave

Keep fighting the good fight.

Random Brother

Razors girls, razors.

But without the conspiracy theories NWOSlave is just a pile of unsubstantiated wrong and fail. What a boring troll. Come back when you can substantiate your claims, crank.

“So, are there any MRAs who are writing about the movement and its philosophies without all the subtle and/or overt bigotry or directly from the perspective of minority men? ”

Well, it’s a bit much to expect any movement to produce folks who are free of subtle bigotry. You can find folks who work against it, but I don’t think you can find anyone who is just absolutely not at all racist, sexist, or heterosexist, or cissexist, or ableist, or classist…

I’m bored already. Can’t he link to a fluoride conspiracy web page or start complaining about his hideous facial deformities or something?

Shorter RB: feminists are fat and ugly, hur hur blarg!

It’s almost like we have a new Ion!

Random Brother – you claim that you are not a troll, which is great. But if you aren’t a troll…and you aren’t here posting anything of substance or value, what exactly is it that you are trying to do? Obviously you hate feminism (and I’m thinking you may also hate all women, although that is just a feeling I get from reading your various comments)…but rather than post some thought provoking comment on why feminism = bad, you just keep with the personal insults and boring commentary. You are really starting to sound like the adults on Charlie Brown. It seems like your purpose of posting here is to get people upset or something, but so far you are the most boring MRA to write in these comments since I began reading this blog. Step up man!

In terms of translating, the whole “toxic masculinity” debate was sparked, IIRC, by the TV ad depicting the baby and the injunction to raise your boys to not be violent to women. Naturally, the MRAs went ape-shit and accused the sponsor of accusing a baby of being a rapist. I don’t really want to rehash the whole debate, because it was predictably tedious and unproductive, but I think at some point I mentioned the concept of “toxic masculinity”–essentially, the idea that one can be a man without being a dick. Seems pretty straightforward, right? Well, RB seized on that as proof that I was renouncing all masculinity and proceeded to call me “Captain Pink Bathrobe” and a variety of other clever names. To be fair, RB may remember things differently.

I think it was at this point that he came up with rather odd image of David and I as two yapping dogs kept in the handbag of a large, hairy-legged feminist, who occasionally let us out for good behavior. We had some laughs over that one, and then Elizabeth offered me some bacon, and the enduring “bacon” meme was thus established.

So, thanks, RB?

Rutee, I don’t think that there are any movements are completely free of bigotry. They’d be movements without people and prejudice and bigotry -to a certain degree- are innate aspects of the human condition.

When I started exploring 2nd wave feminism as a teenager I found it really dismissive of Black women. When I dug a little deeper, I found it really dismissive of women of color, generally and found some things that I really had a problem with in terms of people being oblivious about their level privilege. When I started reading the writing of some Radical Feminists, I thought “Yeah, I’m all for equality and education, and voting and shit… but these people are crazy, and I don’t feel like Feminism really speaks to me.”

Then, you know, I began reading more Womanist writers. I discovered Audre Lorde and bell hooks. I re-read all the Morrison I’d read up until that point. Somebody gave me a copy of Blues Legacies and Black Feminism and I got into Angela Davis. The list goes on. And it started to occur to me that the women belonging to any given ethnic group probably have their own take on feminism and I began to explore that as well.

It let me feel that Feminism had a place to me, to examine and dtermine what I identify as the common struggles of women and men, and let me look at mainstream and, eventually 3rd wave, feminism with a more open mind. Not because I agree with anything, because I don’t. And I’m a feminist; it’s not a label I back away from or feel the need to downplay. But, I’m my own type of feminist and I know that my cultural background and ethnic “identity” play a part in that.

So, you know, Random Brother says that he recognizes bigotry within the MRM -and you’d have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to. He claims to be antifeminist but does not consider himself and MRA.

I have curiosity. I’m wondering if there are any modern writers/thinkers/blogges/whatevers within the MRM that write about its issues from the perspective of men of color, or who disavow the some of the bigotry in the more vocal movement.

Thought I’d ask.

@ Nobinayamu

On the forum, Ami did a thread about a black MRA who called himself Samuel X. On the subject of women, he sounded just like the white MRAs.

Secret Room. The thread is called “Samuelx MRA porn author extraordinaire”. It consists of extracts from his literotica stories, which apparently are legion.

I’m wondering if there are any modern writers/thinkers/blogges/whatevers within the MRM that write about its issues from the perspective of men of color, or who disavow the some of the bigotry in the more vocal movement.

Nobinayamu, there is one that I know of… “Obsidian” who writes The Obsidian Files. He’s a black man who’s often been vocal in opposition to the racism in the MRM (in fact, saying so got him bounced from In Mala Fide). But when it comes to the topic of women he’s just as bad as any white MRA. And he seems especially contemptuous toward “sistas” who don’t know their place and speak up in public without permission from men.

The weird thing is: I read the piece that got “Ferdinand Bardamu” of In Mala Fide so bothered, and thought it was excellent. It was pointed, insightful, and sarcastic in just the right amount. It was way more truth than someone like “Ferdy” could handle, obviously.

But then the same man writes appalling stupid, bigoted things about women, and about black women at that. What I made of it was that very self-absorbed people can be excellent advocates for their own interests, while being absolutely terrible when it comes to other people’s interests. :/

Chuckedee wrote, “Oh come now ladies. The thing that gets you off is the spice, the risk, the danger and the excitement. No matter how much you say you want a sensitive, kind nurturing dude, the reality is that it’s the fear of the unknown and the thrill of the forbidden that gets you off. That’s why, for all your rhetoric wrt kind, nurturing, sensitive dudes, such as David :) , you’re always vigilant for the formidable, shadowy figure beyond your immediate range of vision. At a deep, viceral level, you want someone who has viceral, authentic dominance over you that you can feel, try as you might to deny it. Consciously, you want sweetness and kindness and predictability, but subsconsciously, try as you might to resist it, you admire, at a gut level, someone who is dominant… that is, dominant over you. It is the formidable bad-boy in the shadows that catches your attention and has you fixating on him, even as you look away, trying to sum him up, trying to work out what it is about him that excites you.”

Chuckedee, I freely admit that I liked to be topped… but I also got to know my current partner for more than six months before we did a scene. This is because I know the difference between wanting rough sex and actual rape or abuse, which you seem to have a great deal of trouble with.

“What am I saying here? What I’m saying is that you ladies are, at heart, bullies. It is the dynamic of the bully that gets you off. That is to say, most often you realize your dominant role against your children, but you secretly enjoy your submission role with your dominant men. Nature has a way of realizing payback.”

I don’t have children, don’t want any. Where’s my need to be topped come from?

@ mediumdave

mediumdave said: Nobinayamu, there is one that I know of… “Obsidian” who writes The Obsidian Files. He’s a black man who’s often been vocal in opposition to the racism in the MRM (in fact, saying so got him bounced from In Mala Fide). But when it comes to the topic of women he’s just as bad as any white MRA. And he seems especially contemptuous toward “sistas” who don’t know their place and speak up in public without permission from men.

Random Brother:

You are missing a piece of the puzzle with regard to Obsidian’s alleged contempt for sistas, and it has little to do with them daring to getting out of line as you put it. It is in fact that most black women who were posting at his site are part of the BWE or black women empowerment, movement which in a nutshell is black women blaming black men for all of the african american community’s problem and trying to date, marry, and glorify all white men. That’s mostly why he’s rude to these types of women. These women also have a sort of passive aggressive hatred for white women and love to psychoanalyze (negatively) black men who date white women while praising interracial dating for themselves.

There are a couple of blogs like somethingscrewed and blackmenconfrontingtheliesanddistrotions that go into more detail about these “women.”

Random Brother
Red Sox suck.

I found a website that might be relevant to your interests!

http://incorrecthitler.tumblr.com/

today i Contributed to the Internet. *nods gravely*

There are East Asian MRAs, at least in Japan. They whine on 2ch about how women have done them up. To be fair, in Japan, at least, gender roles have completely fucked up for both genders, but blaming that on women without acknowledging how amazingly screwed up it is to seriously expect a maid and sex doll without any obligations on your part besides buying her food is really, really not cool.

Chuckeedee – A woman responds reflexively when she encounters a situation that overwhelms her, and this is beyond her control.

I’m not sure exactly what you’re saying here, but if you’re creating situations for your partners that “overwhelm” them, you’re doing it wrong.

Unless you’re trying to say that everything overwhelms women because we’re so damn delicate, in which case I can only answer that you should really go outside and see how people act sometime.

Humans have biological predispositions based on their sex, but gender roles do not really exist beyond the need to subscribe to culture’s requirements as an ecosystem.

That’s complete gobbeldygook. Culture isn’t an “ecosystem” and gender roles can’t be simultaneously totally cultural and totally natural.

And meanwhile dominant women are just, y’know, out there. Existing.

What is it with trolls today and announcing themselves The Winner?

Welp, looks like the feminists win the thread, the discussion can pretty much end now, it’s a clear decision made by me (an impartial observer, as unlike some, I carry no animus toward feminism) and everyone can relax because we’ve got an outcome. Feminists win, yep.

Thanks for playing, everyone.

I can’t believe I’m going to say something in partial agreement of with someone so silly and antagonistic (although, to be fair, I did kind of agree with NWO yesterday that men are great; he just happens to be a fuck-wit) but that description does describe some of the women in the Black Woman Empowerment movement. I don’t think it’s the totality or even the majority. And I have my own ideological differences with some of the writers and bloggers who consider themselves at its helm.*

But that is not an entirely inaccurate description of one of its facets. Still, I haven’t had time to read through Obsidian’s blog at length and determine whether Random Brother’s account is honest.

That said, mediumdave, thanks for the links.

*For the record, my interest in minority men writing within or for the manosphere and MRM notwithstanding, misogyny is misogyny is misogyny. Still worthy of mocking.

doesnt everyone respond reflexively in situations where theyre overwhelmed. i know i do…

also chuckeedee answer me are you really carl sagans dipshit little brother or do you just play him on the internet

Ami, I’m not certain about any specifically east Asian MRA movements. But I do remember running across Angry Asian Man a couple of years ago. It wasn’t so much MRM influenced but it did touch on issues of negative stereotyping of Asian men and, to some extent, culture in the West. There was a lot about emasculation and, occasionally, some posts spawned comments sections that expressed a lot of anger toward Asian women and the idea that they’re always dating White guys. I do remember some very misogynistic remarks. I don’t know that I would say it drove the blog.

Not especially helpful, admittedly.

I know, everyone forgets about the sadistic women!