Links: Michael Kimmel and Amanda Marcotte on masculinity, misogyny and Anders Breivik
The world doesn't need any more macho Nazis
A couple excellent pieces on Anders Breivik and misogyny.
First: The other day I posted a link to a piece by Michael Kimmel on Breivik and the sexual politics of far-right thought. It turned out that the article was a draft that got published prematurely.
Now the final version of the post is officially up at Sociological Images: A tale of two terrorists redux. Kimmel argues that what we know about Breivik thus far
indicate[s] that … it will be impossible to fully understand this horrific act without understanding how gender operates as a rhetorical and political device for domestic terrorists.
These members of the far right consider themselves Christian Crusaders for Aryan Manhood, vowing its rescue from a feminizing welfare state. Theirs is the militarized manhood of the heroic John Rambo – a manhood that celebrates their God-sanctioned right to band together in armed militias if anyone, or any governmental agency, tries to take it away from them. If the state and capital emasculate them, and if the masculinity of the “others” is problematic, then only “real” white men can rescue the American Eden or the bucolic Norwegian countryside from a feminized, multicultural, androgynous immigrant-inspired melting pot.
Meanwhile, Amanda Marcotte at Pandagon offers some thoughts on Misogyny and Terrorism:
[T]here’s definitely a strong link between misogyny and violence that can’t be denied. Misogynists are far likelier to be violent people than non-misogynists, which is why rape and wife-beating are such common crimes. (Domestic violence is the number one cause of injury for women 15-44.) All bigotry provokes violence at its ends, of course. This isn’t the Oppression Olympics. But misogyny and violence go hand in hand so often because misogynists really buy deeply into the idea that women are weak and men are “strong”, by which they mean aggressive. A steady drumbeat of misogynist thought couldn’t be better designed to reach the unhinged and cause them to lash out violently, all while imagining themselves to be big, tough men who claim they were forced—with “why did you make me do this?” being the battle cry of wife beaters—into violence.
Discuss.
Posted on July 29, 2011, in links, masculinity, oppressed men, patriarchy, racism, terrorism, victimhood. Bookmark the permalink. 344 Comments.
It’s almost as if man and woman were not meant to procreate.
I’m guessing Amanda Marcotte gets a bonus, orgasm or both everytime she uses the word misogynist. We get it Amanda, you hate men. It seems to be the same screed she for every article she writes; unbiased journilism certainly isn’t her forte.
Her rambling of how misogyny fuels the Christian right as well as white nationalism borders on severe pyschosis of the mentally deranged. One has to wonder if she owns a toy colosseum and feeds toys Christians to toy lions. How anyone spewing such vile hatred of Christians has the audacity to utter the words racist or sexist boggles the imagination.
She continues her incesant ramblings of how the British, American and Canadian MSM along with the english language being far Christian right. The proof that Christians are open season for any and all mockery endorsed by the MSM in English is in her hateful vile drippings.
As with all leftist feminists she can’t keep her mind out of her pants. Her article is supposed to be about an act of terrorism yet she must delve deep into her skirt and prattle on about whats down there.
Incredible that such unabashed hatred will be hailed as progressive by the manboobz crew. My advice to Amanda would be to check yourself into any clinic that’ll accept you. If none will accept you get a honey badger and stuff it in your ear and hopefully it will eat the hatred part of your brain away. The honey badger can ward off poison by sleeping it off, so it might survive the hateful toxic bile that infects your brain.
Am glad to have the mystery of the on again off again column explained!
@Joanna
Nah, many if not most do a fine job of it. Some assholes just have to fuck it up for the rest of the human race.
India gets its own Slut Walk! Besharmi Morcha July 31, 2011
http://www.besharmimorcha.in
Jai Ho!
(besharmi means “shamless” and morcha means protest or march)
What I find disturbing, and typical of feminists, is that so far every feminist who has commented on this horrific act has ignored Breivik’s actual motivation and side-stepped that he killed 76 people in favoring of trying to spin this into some attack on feminism and women. It is akin to how feminists ignore the rape of boys that occurs in the Catholic Church in favor of complaining about how women cannot be priests or Popes. You would think that mass murder and child rape would be the more important issue, but no. The only horrific thing Breivik did was tear feminists a new one. The whole mass murder thing just is not bad or important enough for feminists to give more than a casual “oh yeah, he killed some people cuz he’s anti-Muslim” buried in the middle of their juvenile “but Breivik’s real evil is that he’s a ‘misogynist'” rants.
I would hope they would be embarrassed, but that would take an amount of basic decency that even dogs have, but apparently feminists like Marcotte, Kimmel, and Schwyzer cannot muster even for 76 viciously murdered people.
jesus fuck, get off your high horse. did you read any of the many threads where everyone is saying ‘he killed a bunch of people, that is fucked’ while our resident mra trolls have been trying to spin it as ‘we can’t tell whether this is necessary.’
seriously, before you crafted this indignant whinefest, did you check for a second to see if it was the least bit true, or did you just trust in your assumed self-righteousness.
do your research next time, babby, or don’t bother to post.
Toysoldier, I hope you’re trolling.
like do you everyone should have just been churning out a bunch of generic posts about how awful this situation is without any discussion of what exactly causes shit like that to happen?
is introspection that foreign of a concept to you? don’t answer that.
Lol. Calm yourself Sharculese.
:O
calm is not within my range of functions.
@Toysoldier:
Never mind that the guy actually had misogynistic twaddle in his encyclopedia of rants.. We can’t talk about feminist issues as they relate to this tradgedy in a feminist space because that would be ignoring the deaths of 76 people!! We need to talk about… their deaths, I guess.. And evil muslims… or persecuted muslims.. or something. Anything but the point of the movement we belong to.
Jesus… It’s like complaining that gay people are trying to twist the churches rape of boys into a persecution against gay people… Because they talk about how some people think that a man raping a boy is automatically gay, and therefore all gay people are evil monsters…
Breivik’s noxious ideology is a mixture of things. True, he seems to be mostly driven by a hatred of Muslims, but misogyny is part of that mixture as well. These different hatreds are intertwined; they work together, as Kimmel’s piece argues.
There has been a great deal of discussion in the media about his hatred of Muslims. There has not been much on misogyny. That’s one of the reasons I’ve been highlighting it.
One of the other reasons is how strikingly similar his anti-woman rhetoric is to much I see all the time in the manosphere. Toysoldier, does that not give you pause? Does it bother you that Bardamu praises Breivik’s manifesto as “sensible?” That Spearheaders have actually been upvoting Nolan’s vile comments?
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/12/popes-creative-new-defense-of.html
http://silence-is-betrayal.blogspot.com/2010/04/pedophilia-and-catholic-church.html
http://thefeministtexican.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/those-catholic-priests-werent-pedophiles/
http://herwholeidealism.wordpress.com/tag/catholic-church/
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/05/19/catholic-church-takes-action-to-stop-sexual-abuse-or-do-they/
etc etc…
As for the Catholic Church not having women as priests, I mean it’s a deal for some (those that care about the Catholic Church) but it’s not an either or xD Ppl can care about both and also obv think one is way more important than the other (that being the child rape obv >:\ )
I know just what you mean, toysoldier, as you’d think that the Catholic Church (and all other edifices of Churchianity) would be concerned with the devastating effects of world hunger, poverty, homelessness, etc., but no, they’re more pressingly concerned with such things as women wearing that which pertaineth to a man (i.e., pants instead of skirts and dresses).
You feminists are still bitching about how anyone who questions radical leftism is as bad as Breivik?
Also, apologize for the European debt crisis.
I’m surprised, I leave for a few days and when I come back David is still bitching about how anyone who questions radical leftism is a serial murderer.
That Spearheaders have actually been upvoting Nolan’s vile comments?
Which were plagiarized from MRA websites. Also, your strain of leftism has taken its share of lives. Feminism played a key role in both the French Revolution and the Russian October Revolution. But hey, feminism is perfect, it never results in false imprisonment or misandry, nope, oppressed men are a myth. You know, despite the fact that most prisoners, political or otherwise, are men or most of the homeless are. The Men’s Rights Movement is all bad and unnecessary, feminism should have free unquestioned reign over social institutions and the media and is the ideological embodiment of all that is pure and good.
@David Futrelle
“One of the other reasons is how strikingly similar his anti-woman rhetoric is to much I see all the time in the manosphere. Toysoldier, does that not give you pause? Does it bother you that Bardamu praises Breivik’s manifesto as “sensible?” That Spearheaders have actually been upvoting Nolan’s vile comments?”
Hey Dave maybe you could take a day off from mocking misogyny and mock the misandry that infects society, Whadya say? Ya know, woman chops off mans johnson and tosses it into the garbage disposal.
Because ya see what I wanna know is how something like this aired on the MSM not some backwater blog. I wanna hear the excuses of how the five feminists host roared with laughter. The one who actually made a comparison apologized first for being a, “buzzkill.” Then they all went back to funfest. I wanna hear the excuses of why the entire audience laughed. This audience most definitely was an excellent representation of every race and political representation of modern day women.
Pretty nice to stand up on a soapbox pointing fingers at all the bad misogynists. Go to all the youtube videos and see the comments. Or do all those women commenting fall into the, not all feminists are like that category? Or perhaps all these fine ladies here will simply stick their collective fingers in their ears screaming la-la-la-la-la, it never happened. What? Ozzy prints a little post after having a good chuckle and it’s all better now? Well guess what? It ain’t.
You wanna print something up for tommorows show. Print up this little screed right here. Because I wanna hear all those fine excuses.
Nasty feminists with their Liberté, égalité, fraternité!
Also note, no men were helping in either one of those revolutions, no sir!
factfinder whine about bloggers making the like between anders breivik and his misogynistic views in the same post where he whines about all leftists being evil based on a series of lame connections.
factfinder does not understand irony. i am shocked.
So you think the French Revolution was all good? You don’t think it lead to one of the bloodiest conflicts of the 19th century?
Also note, no men were helping in either one of those revolutions, no sir!
The snarky and baiting nature of your little ditty aside, how does the presence of men in a revolution cancel out the effect of feminism? Please leave your hormones and snark at the door, we can speak rationally. Hell, if the peer pressure to conform on this estrogen pit is too much, we can discuss it on my blog.
If you are frightened by even the slightest whisper which does not originate from your feminist echo chamber, you may make your excuses and run along.
Oh, you didn’t catch I was making a counterpoint using the same logic David uses? I guess your hormones and emotions are out of wack with all of this feminist garbage, so you have to resort to snark and cynicism when faced with rational debate.
LOL!! Because that worked out soooooo well the last time you made that offer, huh?
Dude, your examples are amazingly stupid, the French revolution and the Russian revolution were both led by men, for men and neither granted many rights to women in practice. Also your hormones seem more out of wack, since you are the one praising the asshole who killed people who had done him no harm.
no… factfinder… i got exactly what youre saying. youre not particularly subtle or discreet. its just that your argument was dumb. sorry.
LOL!! Because that worked out soooooo well the last time you made that offer, huh?
What are you going on about now? I’m not making any offer. I am just giving Bostonian permission to discuss the issue on my blog for a brief amount of time. I really don’t give a shit either way.
I know you are baiting me, by the way. This is what a feminist looks like, a miserable harpy who resorts to childish games and shit tests in lieu of personality, and then labels the fallout of those actions as “oppression.”
factfinder: So you think the French Revolution was all good? You don’t think it lead to one of the bloodiest conflicts of the 19th century?
So you really think the royalist powers declared war on the Republic because of feminism?
And that Napoleon took over,and waged his wars to spread femnism?
Dude, your grasp of history is only rivaled by your grasp of rhetoric.
Also your hormones seem more out of wack, since you are the one praising the asshole who killed people who had done him no harm.
That is a lie, but it is not surprising. Is there anything about feminism which does not rely on snark or deception?
its just that your argument was dumb. sorry.
Okay, thanks for sharing. I can’t help but notice you have nothing but praise for anything feminist and nothing but snark for anything not, but I’ll note that my example was “dumb.” Thank you for that constructive criticism, and if you might want to try using the shift key every now and again. It’s not hard, and it makes you seem like less of a moody teenage girl.
It’s funny how feminists get hung up on the slightest thing you do not explicitly spell out and frequently run off on little tangents of their own. I guess being a snarky bitch does that to you – if feminism makes people angry and bitter, why not irrational? When a feminist has no faith in society or objective judgement, she has no morality and hence humans become pawns in the series of power struggles which define her life.
Hey, Bostonian, do you have the balls to tell me where I praised a murderer? I’m all ears, man. Go for it.
factfinder you get hung up on the smallest thing.
you are the dumbest hypocrite.
the absolute dumbest.
Sharculese, give an example. Is claiming I “praised a murderer” a small thing? It might be if you’re a calloused liar and you’re just getting what you dish out, but put yourself in my position. I’m used to hearing and doing my best to tell the truth. If someone lies about something with no real motivation, or worse yet to further a belief based on lies, I get a little angry. So no, lying is not a small thing. People are dying overseas because of lies. People took jets and rammed them into buildings into lies. People are getting thrown into glorified livestock pens where they suffer a real, not a theoretical, rape culture. Lies are pretty fucking serious.
*because of lies, rather “into lies”. Don’t get hung up on that typo.
“People are getting thrown into glorified livestock pens where they suffer a real, not a theoretical, rape culture.”
Both male prisoner rape and the rape of women are real things, FactFinder.
lol. cry babby cry.
I like how fact-finder says he’s interested in rational debate and complains of our hormones then shrilly and hysterically calls us bitches. I mean, the cognitive dissonance is almost impressive in scope.
Also, Factfinder, you come across as very ANGRY. Which means we’re getting under your skin. You shouldn’t let us have so much power of you. Calm yourself, dude.
“If someone lies about something with no real motivation, or worse yet to further a belief based on lies, I get a little angry. So no, lying is not a small thing. People are dying overseas because of lies. People took jets and rammed them into buildings into lies. People are getting thrown into glorified livestock pens where they suffer a real, not a theoretical, rape culture. Lies are pretty fucking serious.”
Actually, you sound a little, um… *emotional* here, FactFinder.
It’s okay, you can be mad and still be a dude. Pull down those gender stereotypes!
Also, what do you have against people from Boston? You’re pulling it out like it’s an insult, but it’s not like it’s Jersey. ;)
New card! :D Inspired by our new troll :3 (bonus points to who gets the reference xD )
@NWO so you believe that Ozy had a good laugh before making her post? :3 How do you know this? o_O What do you think *I* was thinking when I saw that (and before making MY post? :3 ) How do you know the ppl who celebrated it were feminists? o: Is every woman a feminist? o: Is it possible to celebrate it and NOT be a feminist, or does celebrating it define you as a feminist? :D
What do you see in front of your fist? :D
Who are you? What do you want? O:
The owls are not what they seem! xD
factfinder is such a whinefactory i’m shocked he doesnt blusterly accuse himself of having ovaries or some related thing
“The owls are not what they seem! xD”
That gum you like is coming back in style. ;)
“factfinder is such a whinefactory i’m shocked he doesnt blusterly accuse himself of having ovaries or some related thing”
I know!
So FactFinder, on your own blog, from your sig posted as a quote from you, but published here as elish,
“People have killed for every cause under the sun. A belief is not about who preaches lip service to it but whether it aligns with reality and will better the world. I do not think blaming all of the world’s problems on masculinity will result in any good, but that’s just me.
Put a human being in a cage, you will see survival behaviour. Survival behaviour is ugly”
Does not sound like blame, exactly. Sounds more like praise.
“factfinder is such a whinefactory i’m shocked he doesnt blusterly accuse himself of having ovaries or some related thing”
Yeah, I was wondering if it were that time of the month for him. But I have a feeling every day is that time for him. Oh, to be so impotently angry all the time!
*facepalm* This is what happens when you try to chime in after reading only half a page of thread… you miss that “Bostonian” is the actual sn of a *commentator*. XD
“Does not sound like blame, exactly. Sounds more like praise.”
It also sounds like a threat. Moat people don’t respond well to threats. At least I certainly dont.
Molly Ren, I don’t comment very much, the mistake is very understandable.
“Baiting” you, My God, get over yourself already! I just didn’t want to see anyone waste their time in a “rational debate” that will culminate in you throwing a hissy fit, then subsequently deleting your blog entry and its attendant comments. On the other hand, watching you self-destruct is far more amusing than your slinging of stale, impotent insults.
@molly ren- is that what a baby hippo looks like? because- awwwwwww
I just didn’t want to see anyone waste their time in a “rational debate” that will culminate in you throwing a hissy fit, then subsequently deleting your blog entry and its attendant comments.
You seem to have confused me for a cowardly feminist who blocks off any comments she does not agree with. You know, 90% of all feminist sites and most feminist youtube videos (because commentary is dangerous).
But no, I don’t use feminist techniques because I am not a cowardly liar like you, honey. Good luck trying to “mock” anything which is not radically feminist into submission, that seems to have worked well so far. An encyclopedic knowledge of human nature, right there.
Christ, I feel like a cat farmer in here.
Re: male rape in prison or out, male and female victims need to unite.
Settle, Petal ..
factfinder, if a single thing of your last whinescreed was true, you would have responded to at least one thing where everyone above you called you out for being a dumb dishonest crybaby who was only interested in bullying the terms of debate onto grounds you found comfortable with.
but you didnt, because as everyone predicted/already knew, youre a dishonest whinelord.
nobody cares about your handwaving. sorry.
Speaking about crybabies…
I shake my head in wonderment and disbelief every time I see references to women being denied “rights” for millennia being trotted routinely by people who clearly don’t understand human nature. They don’t seem to understand that primary nurturers that are provided for occupy a position of privilege, not oppression. The same crap gets churned out without any semblence of taking in the wider picture. As primary nurturers women set the terms upon which their charges grow up to carry forth their memes. What is it about this simple fact of reality that people don’t seem to get?
But what the hell, if feminists want to disempower women and make them look like ridiculous, helpless imbeciles… I object to this triviliazation of women, but what can one do?
The provided-for, like royalty, occupy positions of privilege, while their providers occupy the position of servant. “Oh but women are denied the right to work, that’s why they need to be provided for.” This classic response, predictably trotted out with the women-are-oppressed mantra, really does fail to understand human nature. Bonbon-sucking, soap-watching, child-abusing welfare moms don’t work because they don’t have to and they don’t want to. It’s that simple. The system (culture) gives lounging tubs of lard most everything that they desire… but all these freebies do come at a price in the end. People who are babied from birth into adulthood grow into babies in adult bodies, while those who have no choice but to learn to fend for themselves learn nasty, brutish survival skills.
There is a simple law of the universe, and works like this. Men and women deserve one another. Neither occupies the moral high ground and anyone who suggests otherwise is an idiot. Gender supremacists, irrespective of whether they are male-supremacists or feminists, both have it wrong.
Feminists, it’s not always about you. Hitler’s agenda was never to oppress women. Neither was Stalin’s, nor Idi Amin’s, nor any other major figure in history. The Founding Fathers did not have the oppression of women designed into their blueprint for the US Constitution, and neither did the Magna Carta. There are many reasons for history’s events, and it’s not always about the oppression of women. But how do you explain this to babies in adult bodies who never get to understand that it’s not always about them?
“Bonbon-sucking, soap-watching, child-abusing welfare moms don’t work because they don’t have to and they don’t want to.”
What *is* it with these guys and bonbons?
There is a simple law of the universe, and works like this. Men and women deserve one another. Neither occupies the moral high ground and anyone who suggests otherwise is an idiot.
It’s good to have “universal” “laws” that define themselves by “if you disagree, you’re an idiot” XD
What’s wrong w/ being a cat farmer? :D
You’re really not making a good case for women who have chosen cats over men, chuckeedee. Why on earth would we want to hang out with someone as nasty as ourselves? Cats can be smelly little moochers, but at least they’re cute and double as bed warmers.
You know what I love–love meaning complete hatred is when men(or women) was on about how oppression is just “logical” oh no it doesn’t matter how it hurts people or causes suffering…it is only logical that certain people are oppressed…you better suck it up its human nature..well fuck you mister logical…people have a right to not be opressed and a right to be upset about it…they aren’t being whiny just because it doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean other people aren’t affected.
It’s good to have “universal” “laws” that define themselves by “if you disagree, you’re an idiot” XD
Newton originally wanted to frame his laws of motion like this. Edmond Halley talked him out of it.
That’s not my intention. I’d rather suggest that men should let women stay with their cats :)
Flufffinder, if you are going to steal my words, use them in context.
Jeez.
In Chuckadee’s world women are on top because they don’t have any options. The get to stay home and wash the clothes, the dishes and the floor; prepare the food, change the diapers.
If they don’t want to, but are forced to anyway, it’s all good… because men provide for them, and that makes them the powerful ones.
Never mind that the law treats them as children, denies most of them property, allows their husbands to rape them; and beat them if they are disobedient, publicly shames them if they are “scolds” and holds them responsible for their husbands debt.
That is as nothing, because the are,”cared for” which makes them the all-powerful.
The men, the one’s who were the only one’s allowed to vote, or make laws, or be doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.,they were the oppressed ones, because they had to support the women; whim the were able to walk away from without penalty.
Must have sucked to be one of those men, what will all the female oppression.
Must be nice to live the now where women have to support themselves and men are finally free.
@Pecunium:
I wonder actually. To Chuckadee, are babies basically Gods?
Objects at rest tend to remain at rest…. you asshole.
Don’t forget Gallileio when he presented his idea to the pope (forgot who exactly it was…)
“But sir, there is no God in your model!”
“I had no need of such a hypothesis, you salacious, megalomaniacal, pompous bastard of a whore.”
Terrible isn’t it? Women are denied the right to be conscripted into wars and to die in them. Women are denied the right to work in mines and to die premature deaths on account of exposure to toxins and soul-destroying environments. Women were denied the right to offer up their lifeboat seats so that at least some men could survive the sinking of the Titanic. Women are forced to work in air-conditioned offices that they win by way of affirmative action, while men must resort to less popular jobs that simply do not attract the AA-prioritized women. Women are forced to pursue arts and women’s-studies degrees at universities, while men luxuriate in engineering, surgery and other hard-science degrees that so unfairly deny access to women. Women are forced to use appliances, in between watching their soaps or swanning around shopping malls, that their providers provide to them in whole-day jobs that they had to compete for against women indulging in the affirmative action gravy train. Shocking. It is indeed so terrible for women. My heart goes out to them all. Poor babies :(
@chuckedee would you say children have privilege over adults? o: