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Manosphere blogs: Hey, that Breivik guy has some good ideas!

The "thoughtful" Breivik in custody

Earlier today I wrote about some Men’s Rights Redditors who endorsed the views of Norwegian shooter Anders Breivik – without knowing that the views they were endorsing were his. But others in the manosphere have stepped up to defend Breivik’s manifesto (if not his actions) plainly and explicitly, in full knowledge of just whose ideas they are endorsing.

On In Mala Fide, blogger Ferdinand Bardamu praises Breivik’s “lucidity,” and blames his murderous actions on the evils of a too-liberal  society:

[A]nother madman with a sensible manifesto. Another completely rational, intelligent man driven to murderous insanity. And once again, society has zero introspection in regards to its profound ability to turn thoughtful men into lunatic butchers.  …

He’s not being sarcastic here. He continues:

That makes HOW many rage killers in the past five years alone? And not just transparent headcases like Jared Loughner or George Sodini, but ordinary men like Pekka-Eric Auvinen or Joe Stack who simply weren’t going to take it anymore. No one bothers to ask WHY all these men suddenly decide to pick up a gun and start shooting people – they’re all written off as crazies. Or the rage killings are blamed on overly permissive gun laws …

Here’s an idea – sick societies produce sick individuals who do sick things. Anders Breivin [sic] murdered nearly a hundred teens (not children, TEENS – they were at a summer camp for young adults) and must pay the price, but the blood of those teens is ultimately on the hands of the society that spat him forth. He is the bastard son of a masochistic, degenerate, rootless world that pisses on its traditions and heritage to elevate perversity, mindless consumerism and ethnic self-hatred to the highest of virtues.

(Bolded text in original.) That final reference to “ethnic self-hatred” seems to be Bardamu’s euphemistic way of complaining that not enough white people are white supremacists.

Then he adds this repulsive final thought on Breivik’s victims:

[S]top acting so fucking shocked that Breivin murdered “children.” As William Rome pointed out, it’s been de rigeur for all of human history for political revolutionaries to kill the heirs of their enemies alongside the enemies themselves, to ensure that the old system would stay dead and buried. … That doesn’t make what he did excusable, but it does make it understandable.

Meanwhile, Chuck of Gucci Little Piggy offers what appears to be a somewhat more restrained, if ultimately more puzzling, defense of Breivik’s manifesto – or at least that portion of the manifesto that Breivik borrowed from the writings of far-right blogger Fjordman.

Chuck complains that Hugo Schwyzer and I are “try[ing] to blame Breivik on MRAs” in our recent posts showing the similarities between Breivik’s ideas and those of many MRAs. Never mind that neither Hugo nor I referred to Breivik as an MRA. I described him as an antifeminist, which is an undeniable fact,  whose views are “strikingly similar to many MRAs.” (Emphasis added.) Hugo stated explicitly that he didn’t blame the MRM directly for Breivik’s actions, noting that “[m]ost MRAs – perhaps almost all – reject violence and mass murder as a political tactic.”

Evidently Chuck feels that to even mention the MRM in conjunction with Breivik is some sort of egregious smear, especially since the shooter spent “only” 23 pages of his manifesto writing explicitly about feminism.

Weirdly, after trying to draw a sharp line between Breivik and the MRM, Chuck goes on to apparently endorse Breivik’s (and Fjordman’s) notions about the ways in which feminism “greased the wheels to allow Islam into his country.”  The rest of Chuck’s post elaborates on, and seems to fully endorse, Breivik’s/Fjordman’s argument that feminism’s “emasculation of Western men has taken the organic policing mechanism out of the hands of men in society” and thus rendered Western society helpless before the Islamic cultural invaders.

I’ve asked Chuck to clarify if this is indeed what he means to convey in his post. If so, I can only say:  If you’re trying to draw a distinction between your ideas and the ideas of a murderous terrorist, you don’t really advance your case by agreeing with the central thrust of these ideas pretty much wholeheartedly.

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Kave
Kave
9 years ago

GL Piggy

I’m probably the oldest poster here and have no problem with Ami’s style of writing. Language evolves. If you’d like we could start writing in Shakespearean english. I have no doubt there are posters here who could leave you confused.

NWOslave.

You should be ashamed, and are a disgusting human being. If I could even call you that. After 911 did you post on blogs that the U.S deserved what it got? I’d bet you did.

Pick yourself up and go live in Saudi Arabia, come back in twelve months with some perspective o.k? Go live for awhile in a country where women have no rights, not even the right to drive a car and then come back and tell us how great it was.

Have you even been out of the U.S? Besides perhaps an all inclusive resort? Ignorance is not an excuse. Do you have any female friends? If you did you could try traveling to Russia or the Baltic’s and take note on how she is treated. Chances are you would enjoy it because again you are a vile human.

Nobby
9 years ago

“since most here think i’m a dick anyway, might as go all the way to the hilt. would you at least think about writing comments using proper english and grammar? this isn’t twitter or text. your style which helps you write faster slows down everyone who is trying to read it.”

You know, many, many people here have said that. And almost all of them have since taken it back 😛

eilish
eilish
9 years ago

Look at GLPiggy trying to change the conversation to religious intolerance and racism.
That’s because it will be easier than trying to explain how he can say in this very thread “One can easily see elements of truth in the manifesto” and imply that his MRA brain approves of Breivik’s actions, at the same time as indignantly accusing Dave of maligning him.

NOWslave is doing exactly what I described in my last post. It’s both scary and pitiable.

MertvayaRuka
MertvayaRuka
9 years ago

This worthless piece of garbage terrorist murderer Breivik had no “good points”. All he had was a series of falsehoods and delusions that reinforced his fantasy of being an oppressed person and fed directly into his actions.

So yeah, I can see how the MRAs would like some of what he has to say. Vile little bullies all, just looking for some way to paint themselves as heroes instead of the maggoty crapsacks they are.

Nobby
9 years ago

I just want to say that now, not only is NWO no longer simply not denying that Breivik was a horrible person, but has now essentially given him his blessing. Lovely. Is this the guy you want on your side, Piggy?

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

MRAs = KKK just with a special emphasis on women.

Jill the Spinster
Jill the Spinster
9 years ago

NWO this will change nothing for father’s rights, western govermnents no longer negotiate with terrorists.

Magpie
Magpie
9 years ago

This thread needs more mockery and bacon popcorn.

and I hope NWO treads on a Lego.

johnnykaje
9 years ago

Bostonian– how could you say such an insulting thing?!? At least the KKK has organizational skills.

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

This is one were-basenji who has indeed come around on the subject of Ami’s idiosyncratic writing style. What she’s done is invented her own dialect of English, an accomplishment that only adds to her awesomeness. XD

Linds
Linds
9 years ago

G.L. Piggy:
RE: Islamic immigration, I honestly don’t care. The boogeyman of “they’ll become the majority” doesn’t much bother me. Anti-immigrant sentiment of this type is floated about for any major wave of immigration– at least, it certainly is in the USA. (anti-Irish, anti-Italian, anti-Jewish, anti-Chinese, anti-Mexican…) Immigrants will assimilate some and change their surrounding culture some, and the world will go on, fueled by the intercultural exchange, just the way it always has.

Ami and Bee:
I think I’d have accepted them just not talking about him. MRAs don’t have to denounce him, but if they TALK ABOUT HIM, then they should either denounce him or do introspective discussion about what he’s saying, what he did, what it means that there are parts to his manifesto that they agree with, and whether the shared ideology is actively violent or not. Which… doesn’t really seem to be the case.

MertvayaRuka
MertvayaRuka
9 years ago

Johnny Pez, I’m also in the camp of people who have no problems understanding Ami at all. And this is from someone who cannot send a text message without all the spelling, punctuation and grammar being standard correct in it.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Ami: I don’t need MRAs, or the MRM to denounce him. But when I see individuals espousing the idea that he was justified, and others agreeing with them… I have to conclude they do think what he did wasn’t as bad as all that.

They say they don’t think people should do it… but if you don’t agree with us, don’t be surprised when this happens.

Nice place you got here, be a shame if something were to happen to it.

Pecunium
9 years ago

G.L. PIggy: Just to float this out there, how do most of you feel about the prospects of unchecked Islamic immigration into Western Europe? I mean, it is only a matter of time before Muslims become the majority in Western countries.

Oh, FFS. I Don’t Care. Why? Because they aren’t going to bring about the end of the world as we know it. People like Brievert, who are (yanno, killing people) are the one’s threatening the way we live.

They are a minority. A really small minority. Even if they weren’t they are people. Not ciphers, not horrors shambling on the earth despoiling all they touch. People.

Just like women.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Kave: Tempt me not to the ways of archaic speech, lest I chuse to ingayje thee in the most carefull, and delycat spelings, that we might be most clere and exacting in our discursions. The ways of spekeing are those most like bibabul liqueors, they refresh the verimost souls of man and embolden the whyts, increasing the vigour of mynde, the strenth of wynde, and the most meticulational thinking; being that which is known to dilineate the order of humanity from that of beasts,they no more able to reason than that a plouwman might draw the share down the furrow even so much as a rod’s distance, no less shude we then engage us in that saym exactement when we write; all owre thought must needs be displayced in order, likes that unto the ways of the sergeants-major when they ordinate the camp at the close of a marche. In this way is the ordinarie of simplist reason established in; clear lines; ea. to its proper station; there shall then the the chamber-pots be placed on one side and the messes on the other, lest odure intrude, and be seethed with the meats:in such a manner to is the the structure of the most exemplry writings built.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@Pecunium I actually understood that! 😀 It was fun xD

And yus… the ones that go “we dun agree w/ what he did, but he has points, and if you keep pushing us… bad things will happen” sound VERY MUCH to me like protection money things : Threats that OTHER ppl will do you harm :

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

VoiP says to me:

“And just to float this out there, have you stopped beating your wife?”

I’m not Muslim so what do you think. But on the real, that was a lame comeback on your part. You should realize by now that using your virtual voice to attack the personal life of someone you only know virtual things about is mostly ineffective and idiotic. Because either I don’t have a wife and wouldn’t beat one if I did have one which leaves me sort of cringing on your behalf for the bad attempt at a cut down, or I do have a wife that I beat the shit out of all the time but I pretend that I don’t without you really knowing whether I do or not.

Magpie
Magpie
9 years ago

OK, next thread needs to be a conversation entirely between Ami and Archaic Pecunium 🙂

Shora
9 years ago

“I’m not muslim so what do you think”

That was truly, breathlessly offensive. All muslim people beat their wives har har har! White people and other men of color would NEVER do such a thing. Think before you open your mouth* please.

Also, the point of VoiP’s question was to be loaded and offensive, just like you’re question about “unchecked islamic immigration” was loaded and offensive. I very much doubt VoiP was actually commenting on your relationship status and whether or not you were an abusive partner. And yet you still managed to come across as completely vile. Congrats.

*I mean mouth in a figurative sense, obviously.

Rutee
Rutee
9 years ago

[quote]NWO this will change nothing for father’s rights, western govermnents no longer negotiate with terrorists.[/quote]
The ones with strong right wings (Typo’d as white; Irony, thou dost infest my keyboard with your ferrous deliciousness) will say he’s not a terrorist, because he’s white, though.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Ami: The Royal Assassins are supposed to be gifted.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

“That was truly, breathlessly offensive. All muslim people beat their wives har har har! White people and other men of color would NEVER do such a thing. Think before you open your mouth* please.”

Oh are you outraged now? You’ve got to be kidding me. “All MRAs beat their wives har har har” I could easily say that what VoiP said to me was “breathlessly offensive”, but I’m not a fucking baby like that. He was trying to come at me with his wit or so I shot back at him.

But just in case you’re wondering about the treatment of women among Norway’s Islamic population:

*Every rape that occurred in Oslo within the past five years was committed by “non-Western” men.*

Shora
9 years ago

Yes I am outraged now. No I’m not kidding you. What VoiP said to you was actually not meant to be taken personally at all. He was parroting a common example of a loaded question to draw attention to the fact that the question that you asked was indeed loaded. It was a rhetorical question which you met with an extremely offensive bigoted “joke”. So yes, you are in fact being a fucking baby like that.

*Every rape that occurred in Oslo within the past five years was committed by “non-Western” men.*

I’m taking that with a heaping helping of salt. Give me a good source that is not a youtube video and I’ll consider if it has merit. I highly suspect that it does not.

Pecunium
9 years ago

G.L. Piggy: You sure sound offended.

What VOIP was doing was showing that you were, with the question you asked, setting up a many questions fallacy

Pecunium
9 years ago

G.L. PIggy: In respsonse to your rape claims:

If one leading expert is to be believed, the sharp rise in the number of rapes in this over the last 5 years is largely attributable to a group of unemployed and alienated immigrants. ‘Over the last 5-10 years there has an increasing tendency to marginalise and alienate immigrants,’ says Professor Flemming Balvig, a criminologist at Copenhagen University. ‘As a result, many second generation immigrants have reacted against this through various types of criminal activity, including rape.’

Not because they are muslim, per se.

Here is a more detailed breakdown, over several years, of rapes in Norway

Some of the highlights:

Sexual crimes in Norway
These are total number of sexual offenses for the past decade. As you can see, there was a jump in 1996, from 2,244 to 3,518, followed by a general decline until 2000 and then an upwards clime back up. The current sexual crime rate for 2005 is below the 1996 level.

The table shows that the highest percentage of rapes are in the northern counties (Nordland, Troms Romsa and Finnmark), though those counties have a very low percentage of immigrants. Oslo is just above the national average, with 0.8 sexual crimes per 1000 residents though it has a disproportionate amount of non-Western immigrants.

Rapists

According to the report, most rapists are not Norwegian. Forty of the rapists are Norwegians, which is well below their percent in the general city population.

Region Percent

Norway 36.4%
Europe 10.9%
America 2.7%
Africa 19.1%
Asia 10%

So right away there seems to be some discrepancies between the published data, and that news report.

This is how the analysis closes:

My main conclusions, though, are:
(1) There is no correlation country-wide between immigrants and rapes
(2) Northern Norway is overrepresented in rape statistics (up to twice the national average)
(3) Norway is much safer than Iceland
(4) In Oslo, ethnic Norwegians are underrepresented, both among rapists and rape victims
(5) In Oslo, asylum seekers are overrepresented among rapists
(6) In Oslo, immigrant women are much more likely to be victims of rape

Middle East 20.9%

Pecunium
9 years ago

Shora: I think it was a classic case of the “loaded question” That piece of film was right there for him to whip out as soon as we said we weren’t bothered by immigrants. If you plug “Norway Rape” into Google it’s pretty much all you get (don’t read the comments… they are murderous).

If, however, one plugs in, “Norwegian Rape Statistics” one gets a slightly better mix. Given that I have to use English websites to study Norway I am hampered by all the racists using this report to start their wankffests.

Shora
9 years ago

Precunium, you are my favorite <3

Jill the Spinster
Jill the Spinster
9 years ago

Rutee, there was white terrorists in northern Ireland, they didn’t acheive much (anything?) with violence.

Magpie
Magpie
9 years ago

Thank you Pecunium for going straight to get real data (and so quickly)

Shora
9 years ago

Also, bless you for slogging through that. I certainly don’t have the mental energy to do that, especially at 3 am.

The statistics are certainly not flattering, but it’s disingenuous to look at them and conclude that “Immigration of Muslims will cause more rape and probably a lot of other bad things too because they suck.” Men are more likely to commit violent crimes (and be victims of violent crimes) but I don’t go around saying all (or even most) men are violent or that societies ills are the fault of men.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

shora:

“Yes I am outraged now. No I’m not kidding you. What VoiP said to you was actually not meant to be taken personally at all. He was parroting a common example of a loaded question to draw attention to the fact that the question that you asked was indeed loaded. It was a rhetorical question which you met with an extremely offensive bigoted “joke”. So yes, you are in fact being a fucking baby like that.”

I initially asked what everyone thought about Muslims eventually becoming the majority of any of these countries. It will happen eventually due to their high birth rates (is that bigoted to point out too?). I wondered if secular liberals are cool with that. I mean many of you don’t like Christianity so I wonder how you’ll feel when Islam becomes the prevailing religion. I think that is a pretty legitimate point – and it is underscored by the fact that we are always talking about Muslims coming to Western countries rather than the reverse.

After I make that point, VoiP throws in me beating my hypothetical wife. Where did that come from? I don’t care if it was a loaded question. If he wants to jab or joke or play around or whatever, I’ll give him a little bit of what he’s looking for. If he wants me to be the designated bigot here then I’ll give him his bigot. Don’t come crying to me now because I’m playing the role that he so desperately sought for me.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Percunium:

VoiP asked if I beat my wife and I responded with a joke about Muslims. If I was offended I would have started crying like the other commenter, but I didn’t. I mean, by her logic, I should have been offended, but I’m not. Sorry.

MertvayaRuka
MertvayaRuka
9 years ago

VoiP used a classic example of a loaded question on you in response to your own intentionally loaded questions. You were just too thick to get the gag. The point wasn’t to offend you, it was to point out your shoddy arguments. At least that was the point. Now I think the point is to laugh at you, since you seem to think of yourself as some sort of brilliant debater while simultaneously being so fucking dense.

Shora
9 years ago

After I make that point, VoiP throws in me beating my hypothetical wife. Where did that come from?

I’m not sure how you are missing this; It came from a well known and oft used example of a loaded question (also, as precunium pointed out, an example of a many questions fallacy). I can say with much certainty (although he will have to come back to confirm this) that he does not actually think you beat your wife, or that you ever did beat your wife. He didn’t even assume you had a wife.

As to why your question was considered loaded, it’s because it implied the presupposition that Muslim people becoming a majority would be a bad thing. This presupposition does not come from nowhere in a country where building a mosque is a huge controversial issue and where there are people who think that burning a holy book is an appropriate response to such controversies. For you to look at me with wide-eyed innocence and ask me how I could ever think such an innocent question was loaded insults my intelligence and your own.

Shora
9 years ago

Also, I want to clarify; Calling you out for saying offensive shit = me crying over me hurt feewings, right?

Just so we’re on the same page. I don’t want to give the impression that I dislike bigotry AND can make rational arguments AT THE SAME TIME or anything. That would be silly.

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Water is wet.
Sky is blue.
MRA is offensive and stupid.

Everything seems normal here.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

How eventually are we talking about? o_O Also how do we know what their culture (must less the culture of any ethnicity) will look like in the future… or if their children will continue their “high birthrates” o:

I personally have no problem w/ it b/c they aren’t a monolith nor are they all (or many) religious extremists… and cultures change and adapt :] There was much fear where I live about the exploding Chinese population and how so many stores are selling Chinese stuff and it’s gonna lead to us taking over and we’re gonna be backwards and traditional and etc… but so far we’re just living like nebody else (also you can get all sorts of awesome stuff b/c of the diversity in stores ) :3

On another note!

I need everybody’s help here! Do you know an MRA blogger (or commenter) who specifically is interested in sexbots or the future technological replacement of women? :3

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

@ Ami

Last month, David cited a blog called Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Technology on that very topic. Sounds like what you’re looking for.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I’m not sure how you are missing this; It came from a well known and oft used example of a loaded question (also, as precunium pointed out, an example of a many questions fallacy). I can say with much certainty (although he will have to come back to confirm this) that he does not actually think you beat your wife, or that you ever did beat your wife. He didn’t even assume you had a wife.

No. No I don’t. G.L. Piggy, are you a Turing machine or something.

I don’t care if it was a loaded question. If he wants to jab or joke or play around or whatever, I’ll give him a little bit of what he’s looking for. If he wants me to be the designated bigot here then I’ll give him his bigot. Don’t come crying to me now because I’m playing the role that he so desperately sought for me.

Nice rebuttal, but has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I initially asked what everyone thought about Muslims eventually becoming the majority of any of these countries. It will happen eventually due to their high birth rates (is that bigoted to point out too?). I wondered if secular liberals are cool with that. I mean many of you don’t like Christianity so I wonder how you’ll feel when Islam becomes the prevailing religion.

I don’t care. I’m already a member of a minority religion, and I don’t really give a damn that not everyone in this country agrees with me. Are you so weak-hearted that it causes you pain that your opinion is not the majority one? I thought Men were Going Their Own Way?

Incidentally, I’m Orthodox, and not only do I not appreciate you sneaking in your bigoted opinions about liberals and Christianity, but a lot of us actually did live in majority Muslim areas for a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire
Some of this history was bad, but most of it was OK. As far as religious violence goes, the Ottomans, with their calmly-sorted spheres of religious tolerance, ain’t got nothing on the Wars of Religion or the Thirty Years’ War. Christians were more OK under the Ottomans than minority faiths were in Europe at the time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#Civil_status
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

(In before the Fall of Byzantium. Not a religious war: there were Christians and Muslims on each side, and Mehmed II read the Iliad at night and thought of himself as another Alexander the Great. I think Mehmed II is a pretty cool guy. eh allows for religious freedom of minorities and doesn’t afraid of anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_II#Freedom_of_the_Bosnian_Franciscans)

Anyway, I know too much about my own religion’s past to froth and moan about the Big Scary Muslims. Sorry to mess with your fearmongering.

Also, immigrants from areas with high birth rates tend to have high birth rates in the first generation and then normalize to the prevailing societal norms of their adopted country. My great-grandmother (not a member of the Islamic Horde Trying to Kill Us All, nor the Hispanic Horde (Ditto), nor the Asian Horde (Ditto), but the one before that) had 15 children; my grandmother had three; my father had two.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

Mert, Shora:

I think it is a forgone conclusion that Islam is a more hostile religion than any other that currently exists – both in principle and in deed. I shouldn’t have to mention 9/11, London, Madrid. So you can complain about a guy burning the Koran, but you won’t get much sympathy from me.

Thus, the loadedness of my question actually has merit whereas the loadedness of VoiP’s question does not. That’s where the difference lies.

To Shora specifically: what is offensive about me stating plain facts? Is it not true that Muslims in European countries tend to commit higher rates of crime, on average, than native Europeans?

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Thus, the loadedness of my question actually has merit whereas the loadedness of VoiP’s question does not. That’s where the difference lies.

Either that or you’re mad that it took you a page and a half to get a really old joke.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I think it is a forgone conclusion that Islam is a more hostile religion than any other that currently exists – both in principle and in deed. I shouldn’t have to mention 9/11, London, Madrid.

What is this fuckery. Are you aware of the topic of this thread? Have you read the OP?

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

*Sorry, when I said that the last siege of Constantinople wasn’t “a religious war” and used, as evidence, the fact that Mehmet II was into classical Greek literature, what I should have said was that it wasn’t “a Clash of Civilizations.” (It wasn’t primarily a religious war either, but classical literature has nothing to do with that.)

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Historically, Muslims have a better record of tolerating other religions than Christians. Historically, both have committed so many religiously-motivated atrocities that it’s basically a wash.

RW
RW
9 years ago

I think the psychological differences between Brevik and the average MRA are more important than the ideological similarities. It’s pretty much always personal psychology that is decisive in triggering spree killing, not ideology.

We can obviously debate how particular psychologies gravitate toward particular ideologies. I think we’d ultimately end up at somewhere very self evident: that many people embrace the same political ideology for very similar reasons, but act on them in different ways and in doing so always put their own personal inflection on them.

Incidentally, I’m not willing to discount Brevik’s political ideas simply because he went bananas. I’ve read the Unabomber’s manifesto and it was cogent enough, in essence not much far removed from your generic (?!) anarcho-primitivist. An idea doesn’t become madder when articulated by a madman or saner when spoke by a rational person.

I’m not an MRA, I’m sympathetic to some of what they say, hostile to other bits. I do think it’s something of a smear on MRAs to connect Brevik to them in some ways that have been going on – for instance some people implying that he’s basically the logical conclusion of MRAdom. There’s a lot of frustration in MRAs, but that doesn’t mean there are a lot of Breviks among them or that the natural avenue for these frustrations is the Brevik one.

I think the fact that Brevik is SO remarkable helps bear that out – at this point he’s either just one guy or part of a very tiny group. Presumably if he was so representative of a wider movement he would have had no shortage of collaborators, given the internet.

Graham
9 years ago

Let me count the fallacies.

1) Unchecked immigration – doesn’t happen. Name a single European country that doesn’t impose restrictions on immigrant numbers.

2) Muslim birth rates – nobody is “born Muslim”, despite what people may like to believe. Islam is a religion. People change religions, leave religions, religions reform, and despite what the hysterics claim a 3% minority religion is not about to consume secular European society.

3) “Is it not true that Muslims in European countries tend to commit higher rates of crime, on average, than native Europeans?” I suspect not, but you’d have to properly gather and analyse the statistics, not just link to propagandist videos. What may be true is that the poorest members of society commit higher rates of crime.

GL Piggy, this is for you:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/western-culture-still-very-much-there%2c-say-experts-201107264118/

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

Most MRAs I’ve encountered have been vocally anti-choice and often anti-contraception, which has always confused me because they tend to be vocally anti-babies-they-have-to-take-care-of, too.

Yeah, if there’s anything that MRAs tend to excel at, it’s talking out of both sides of their mouths.

I need everybody’s help here! Do you know an MRA blogger (or commenter) who specifically is interested in sexbots or the future technological replacement of women?

Thought undoubtedly more PUA than MRA, Roissy did a few postings on his blog regarding Sexbots and the “Sexbot Apocalypse”, though I don’t know if there’s been anything really recent on his blog in regard to that subject. LOL, in one of his postings, he even delineated the effect that access to sexbots would have on the various Greek alphabet strata of men.

RomanCandle
RomanCandle
9 years ago

As far as religious violence goes, the Ottomans, with their calmly-sorted spheres of religious tolerance, ain’t got nothing on the Wars of Religion or the Thirty Years’ War.

An objectively false statement. Ask the Armenians about how The Ottoman Empire “tolerated” them.

That being said, the larger point that you and a few others were making about Islam being historically tolerant has a solid basis in fact. During the Middle Ages, Islam was the epicenter of civilization, whereas the West was a bit of a backwater.

But the key word here is “historically”. History isn’t really relevant to this debate, only the present is. Compare the rights of women and religious minorities in Western countries with Muslim countries today, and you’ll see that the West is better. Not different, better.

So why feminists such as yourselves would want to endanger that totally baffles me. Unless, of course, you really do think that all the problems in the world are caused by cocky upper middle-class white boys. I always thought that was a bit of an ad hominem slur thrown at you by some of your less creative intellectual opponents, but maybe there’s some truth to it!

And, as a cocky upper middle-class white boy, I am very offended.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Kave
“You should be ashamed, and are a disgusting human being. If I could even call you that. After 911 did you post on blogs that the U.S deserved what it got? I’d bet you did.”

The only two issues I brought up in my post were; a fathers right to parenthood and a mans right to not be evicted from his home without even a trial. And look at your comment. So I’m the bad MRA for daring to propose these things?

@Jill the Spinster
“NWO this will change nothing for father’s rights, western govermnents no longer negotiate with terrorists.”

[comment suggesting that terrorism is the only option open for MRAs deleted –DF]

Aaronovitch
Aaronovitch
9 years ago

Guilt by association.