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Digital twats vs. the Pussy Pricing Cartel

Like women, pandas are too lazy to have sex properly.

So, porn. Apparently women just HATE it, and a fellow calling himself Womanhater over on the MGTOWforums is here to tell us the REAL reason why.  Well, reasons. Obviously, everybody already knows

that porn makes men not have to deal with women, and therefore lessens the value of the snatch mafia and the pussy pricing cartel.

But, Womanhater thinks “there may be another factor at play.” Let’s let Mr. Hater explain:

[W]e all know that twats will throw sex at a man and lie to him endlessly to seduce him into legal slavery/marriage. But porn makes the sex she has to throw at him much more unpleasant.

Remember, sex is pretty unpleasant for most women to begin with:

We know that that vast majority of twats either do not enjoy sex at all, or they only enjoy it with thug cock. As such, they have to engage in a physically unpleasant activity with a man they’re not physically attracted to, but only financially attracted to.

But then along comes porn, and suddenly women discover that they have to actually make an effort as well:

Porn means that she cannot simply spread her legs, lay there like a dead fish, and let her victim bust his nut. Porn has made her have to act now too. She must work much much harder to emulate the digital twats her victim has been seeing for a decade or better, and only a true sociopath can fake emotion that well that long.

Also, they can’t get away with being big fat fatties either:

Porn has also raised the expectations of her victim vis a vis her physique, which as we all know is a challenge for Western women these days.

In the end, it all comes down to sheer laziness:

In short, if the twat wasn’t lazy, she’d not be trying to loot a man. And that laziness is exactly what has porn has challenged. While there’s still plenty of victims in the world for the vile cunts to loot and torture, they’re having to work much much much harder to do it now, and THAT is why the twats dislike porn.

QED!

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mandos
9 years ago

It does kind of sound, though, like a laudatory inversion of the radical feminist critique of porn. A central plank of radfem antipornism is that it changes subconscious male expectations of women and makes life harder for the average straight woman by forcing her to perform an inauthentic sexuality in order to maintain his interest. In the language of MRAs, that sounds like what the quoted text is considering a good thing.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

Gee, you’d think with a nickname like Womanhater he should be offering a fair and thoughtful analysis? One good point he does almost make is that porn creates unrealistic standards and expectations, for both men and women. But as long as we treat it as nothing more than fantasy there shouldn’t be a problem. After all, I don’t feel bad for not being able to fly after watching a Superman movie, or disappointed that I’m not a kung-fu master or ace shooter when I walk out of the theatre.

Well, maybe a little.

briget
briget
9 years ago

1. then why does wincest slash fanfic exist?
2. Sex feels BETTER when we participate and don’t just lie there.
3. not all men enjoy watching porn
4. most men realize that the things depicted in porn are unrealistic
5. There is plenty of porn with conventionally unattractive* women in it because guess what? not all men are attracted to the same thing!

Now please all the MRA trolls on this blog explain these things away. I’m so looking forward to your answers
*I’m using this to mean the perfect “alpha female” that they are always talking about

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

This guy’s set up a perfect “no matter what women do, I can interpret it badly” scenario.

Women don’t want you? Bitches are holding out for a rich guy or thug boy.
Women want you? Bitches are just in it for the money.
Women want you, and during sex they act enthusiastic? Bitches are good actors earning their money.

There’s literally no way for women to prove that they enjoy sex and that they sometimes fall in love–he doesn’t even want this to happen–just wants us to work harder for our money.

Meanwhile, in the real world, my boyfriend is lovely in bed and a lovely person, but doesn’t give me any money. Amazing.

Andrea Vaughn
9 years ago

What’s a thug cock? Is that some kind of dog whistle?

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Andrea Vaughn – A thug cock is one that belongs to a person who’s, er, urban, someone who might enjoy rap or R&B, that is, they might be ethnic, perhaps they might have a really dark tan, if you get my incredibly subtle gist.

You bet your ass it’s a dog whistle.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

What’s a thug cock? Is that some kind of dog whistle?

I’m imagining a rooster with a leather jacket and some brass knuckles. If you hear his call in the morning, you done fucked up bad.

Argyle
Argyle
9 years ago

Is it just me, or is “loot” a hilarious potential euphemism? “Oh, baby, I’mma gonna loot you tonight, and loot you hard!” Or, even better along those lines, “It’s lootin’ time! Stand and deliver!” XD

Sorry, just had a bad case of the sillies, there.

(For the record, I’m a huge believer in doing everything that requires financial outlay “Dutch,” and take a lot of pride in paying my own way. Any sex I have with a man is strictly an amateur hobby. I have never been, and have no ambition to be, married. I am, apparently *terrible* at being a woman; none of these rants resembles me and my life/behavior in the slightest. I never seem to get the memos . . .)

Finally: Digital Twat would be an *awesome* band name.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

1. then why does wincest slash fanfic exist?
2. Sex feels BETTER when we participate and don’t just lie there.
3. not all men enjoy watching porn
4. most men realize that the things depicted in porn are unrealistic
5. There is plenty of porn with conventionally unattractive* women in it because guess what? not all men are attracted to the same thing!

Now please all the MRA trolls on this blog explain these things away. I’m so looking forward to your answers

Alright then…

1. I had to google ‘wincest’ and now I wish I hadn’t. Between brothers? Come on…
2. No argument there
3. Haven’t met one yet, but I suppose
4. My point above
5. Oh, not just women. Dear God, no. See Rule 34.

Well, I’m off to watch a video a friend of mine sent me. Apparently it’s a tender story of two young ladies sharing one cup, or something.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Not a lemon party…which I hear is not about friends gathering to make lemonade.

About the guy Womanhater, why do I have the feeling he hates sex and feels he cannot express that by being honest about his lack of interest and must blame it on women cuz you know, men are total animals and never ever want to avoid sex.

unintentionalfeminist
unintentionalfeminist
9 years ago

It seems like one of the key assumptions womanhater’s argument rests on is that without porn, the average non-thug man would have absolutely no way of realizing that the woman he’s doing is completely uninterested. Really? She’s laying there “like a dead fish” and his only clue that something’s wrong is that it looked so different on TV. Someone has a dim view of men.

Simone Lovelace
9 years ago

Whoa. Ion is being fairly lucid here, and actually kinda funny.

Makes you wonder what he’s really up to…

Simone Lovelace
9 years ago

Also, David can we please have “Pussy Cartel” shirts? Pretty please, with sugar on top? I will buy seven so I can wear one every day!!

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

I assume the Bad Boy Cock Carousel has plenty of Thug Cocks on it.

magdelyn
9 years ago

Don’t ever – EVER – disparage thug cock!

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Pretty normal for MRAers UnintentionalFeminist, they rarely view men as a positive.

chocomintlipwax
9 years ago

While some porn features conventionally unattractive women, has anyone ever seen a porn with an even halfway attractive dude in it? (Not that the women are always particularly hot either, but you can tell that’s what they were going for.)

The only real truth in this whole rant is that porn does create some unrealistic expectations as far as women needing to act during the act. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen men AND women writing into relationship columns about moaning. The men find it weird the woman isn’t moaning like the women in porn do, and the women are complaining that their guy wants them to moan like the women in porn. A lot of the times the advice is that the woman should TRY to moan more … which is just the dumbest f-ing thing ever. (I can eat a chocolate cake without moaning. If someone said, “But people on TV moan! You need to moan!!” then I would tell them to go screw themselves with a banana.)

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

While some porn features conventionally unattractive women, has anyone ever seen a porn with an even halfway attractive dude in it?

Well, there’s gay porn. Which quite a few women watch, because it’s the only place to see halfway attractive dudes nekkid.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Does porn work the other way and put pressure on guys to have big penises or not rly? o_O

Which porn is he talking about? There’s plenty of porn where women just kinda look like… women… that seems v popular… also it’s amazing that you can get the same actresses doing “gonzo” porn (I think that’s the term? the one where they try to make it look kinda amateurish and happening on the spot…) and then they do the “higher quality” stuff and the same girl who looks like regular girl before looks different… (ah movie magic xD)… porn isn’t just filled w/ Brianna Banks, tho maybe that’s all this guy watches? xD

Do different kinds of porn put pressure on other ppl too? o_O I’ve never felt pressure from like… Asian fetish porn… or the “chicks w/ dicks” thing… are white woman being influenced or pressured b/c of the “big black dicks in little white chicks” porn? o_O

I’m curious! We should invite this guy to give us a guest lecture David! :]

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Wow. I cannot imagine why our friend Womanhater would have to resort to watching porn*. He doesn’t even sound like he likes that very much.

I would buy a “Pussy Cartel” t-shirt.

*total sarcasm.

unintentionalfeminist
unintentionalfeminist
9 years ago

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth,

The weird thing is, I’ve notices that a lot of the MGTOW types have less of an “oh we’re so oppressed” view and more of a “we’re naturally superior, see how the bitches like it when we leave them to die” kind of view point. But the stuff they complain about (women expect us to provide for them!) is pretty easily solved by not ever giving a woman money. And after that and after they get done ranting about how evil women are and how they’re so glad they escaped with their lives, they move on tho the “men are so oppressed” stuff. But like the rest of the MRAs, most of the “oppression” they talk about (woman trick us into having sex with them) only holds water if you view men as sex crazed beasts.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Oh, womanhater. What can I say?

David, some of the stuff you post just fascinates me. And not, solely for the hilariously mockable misogyny and vitriol which I certainly appreciate.

I read something like this and… I don’t know. I, simultaneously, want to shake my head, point out the fallacies one by one, laugh out loud, and fix the guy a plate of my grandma’s baked macaroni and cheese with a glass of sweet tea and tell him that it’s going to be okay, and ask him if he feels better having gotten that off his chest?

Extraordinary.

Also, I don’t hate porn. I find some of it problematic; a lot of it, actually. But I don’t hate it. Not at all.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

Does porn work the other way and put pressure on guys to have big penises or not rly? o_O

The multimillion-dollar ‘penis enlargement’ industry and those who advertise it would say yes to that. This is what I meant by porn creating expectations for both men and women – men are supposed to always be ready and willing for sex, become and stay rock-hard as long as they want, and of course be extremely well-endowed. Personally I have no taste for ‘mainstream’ hardcore porn, for many of these reasons, on top of finding it fake and about as arousing as watching plastic dolls go at it.

briget
briget
9 years ago

I think this proves that Ion really really doesn’t pay attention to the conversations here. We’ve discussed supernatural slash fanfic how many times exactly?
Ion, okay if you have no objections to the things that I talk about then how do you support what woman hater is saying?

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Never thought I’d say this, but I agree with Ion.

I knew a guy in high school who thought nine inches was the average for a man and he was defective or something.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

I believe that on another thread, one of our regulars (I think I remember who, but am a tiny bit afraid I’d get it wrong) was about to recount some stories about the porn industry and the various ways it really, honestly, does suck. Like, that the people making the money aren’t the people doing the work, for the most part. And I know I’ve heard horror stories about STDs in the industry.

In any case, I admit that I don’t like porn, but it’s not for any of the reasons the wonderfully named Womanhater says. When it’s done humanely, and the people involved are having lots of fun (or at least having a little fun and making some good money) — fine. But unless I can be sure that that’s the case, I feel mighty uncomfortable watching it, suspecting that I’m watching two (or three or four) pretty unhappy people fuck.

Same with prostitution, actually. I don’t have a problem with people agreeing to pay/accept payment for sex, but I have a huge problem with women from poor countries being sold on the black market and brutalized, people without any other meaningful choices being forced into a lifestyle that makes them vulnerable to rape and assault, and lots of other things that go hand in hand with prostitution.

I always feel prudish when I say it, but goddamn it, I just don’t love the sex industry.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

Holly – it’s actually a two-pronged approach. Porn tells them that that’s the normal size, and that it’s also what women want. Pretty powerful stuff to a young’un.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

I think porn can definitely create unrealistic ideas expectations for men and women about everything from penis to size to un-lubed anal. That’s one of the reasons that, while I don’t really have a problem with pornography, I wince a bit when I think of young teenagers watching a lot of what’s available through mainstream porn sites online.

Even the stuff that I don’t find thematically problematic is so “varsity-level” I wonder what kind of insane ideas they must be getting about how sex really works. And, frankly, a lot of what I’ve seen written about women and sex by young men who have trouble dating only verifies my suspicions.

swgmigraines
9 years ago

These “bitches be lazy!” guys piss me off the most, I think. I bust my hump seven days a week, 60 hours a week, at two jobs to make ends meet. They’ve approved overtime at my primary job and I’ve jumped at that, so now I’ll be working close to 70 hours a week – and I’m not even the hardest working woman I know. Most of the women I know work two jobs, or are full-time students while working full time also. Many of them also have children they’re the primary caregivers for. These women are all lower-middle class to middle class, and they’re working themselves to death. Where do these guys get this “women are all lazy” narrative?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Bee, it’s not prudish. And there’s nothing contradictory about believing, theoretically, that there’s nothing inherently wrong with sex work but having serious issues with the way much of it is practiced.

My own feelings about sex work -from porn, to prostitution, to stripping, etc. – are… complicated.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

From TV-apparently no one on TV ever has to work.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

I think that if young men (and women) first watched something like anal golf, they would get it is completely and totally fake and not think that normal people are like that.

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

Where do these guys get this “women are all lazy” narrative?

My guess is, from their sheltered, upper-middle-class upbringings.

Seraph
Seraph
9 years ago

Ion @ 11:32 AM – OK, that was a good one. Chortling at my desk here because it’s not safe to LOL at work.

darksidecat
9 years ago

Ion is sounding very reasonable and sensible on this thread, maybe I should go get some sleep… 😉 Seriously though, sex positive comprehensive sex education would be a big help with these issue. The problem is not so much that porn depicts unrealistic fantasy as it is that some people do not have a good idea what the realities and such should be like in practice.

Joanna
9 years ago

By the way, a twat is a pregnant fish.

I used to find porn fascinating. Having had no girl friends to talk sex with, I learned stuff from porn. And not just how to suck a guys cock, I mean come on, that’s a no brainer. I discovered ways in which I could be pleasured that I wasn’t aware of when I was new to the whole sex thing.

I’ve heard my guy friends complain before about sleeping with girls who just “lay there like a dead fish”. To which I’d love to smack this girl and say “Stop making my friend feel like a necrophiliac. Watch some porn and learn how to have fun during sex.”

I don’t really watch as much porn as I used to. My friends don’t seem to either. It’s no fun when you can’t participate. Unless it tries to have a story line. Then it’s just entertaining.

Pecunium
9 years ago

chocomintlipwax: The guys in porn are an oddly selected set. Most men, it seems, can’t get off on cue, in the ways porn requires.

So those that can, are the ones we see in the industry.

I’m not even going to speculate about mindset.

magdelyn
9 years ago

Having done porn, you often hear from people who have no connection to the industry – multi-billion dollar industry – that it’s filled with STD’s and exploitation.

Here in Cali, working straight performers get tested every 28 days. The testing services use a centralized data-base that producers subscribe to. Most talent used to go to AIM, either in the San Fernando Valley, or one of their off site testing centers. Now AIM is gone because of a leak of the performers names from their data base. My industry/real name and driver license have been published on porn wikileaks. Along with over 15,000 other present/former performers. The new testing sites are Talent Testing Service, or the new one by the FSC.

When I did my first shoot, the Nurse Practitioner took me into a private room and lectured me about my rights and responsibilities in the industry.

Now, gay porn is a different matter. Gay porn actors have NO test requirements for the most part, and some are HIV positive. That is why some people rail against cross-over performers.

Quite frankly, I don’t want any neo-Victorians preaching their morality to me.

magdelyn
9 years ago

BTW, I’ve done sex work as well.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

My guess is, from their sheltered, upper-middle-class upbringings.

This may be it. Although there seems to be a weird “account for anything” mentality, in which if your mom didn’t work (except raising you, but that’s not work), then you figure no women work… but if your mom did work, you declare that “women these days” don’t work that hard.

At any rate, there seems to be no awareness that the vast majority of women–and the vast, vast majority of childless women–have jobs. You know how we have apartments and we eat and wear clothes and stuff? We don’t get our money from the Money Fairy. (FYI: If someone is able-bodied and childless in the US, they are not living off welfare.)

Also, the vast majority of boyfriends don’t actually give their girlfriends money. Does this guy think every boyfriend is a sugar daddy? Generally no money changes hands when you live separately. Even if he buys dinner, you still would have to feed yourself non-date meals and pay your rent. And when you move in together, well, I’ve never heard anyone, ever, say “we’re moving in so I quit my job.”

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

Yeah, I’m changing things up for a while. If Ami can pretend to be a troll, I can pretend to be… whatever the opposite of that is.

Comprehensive sex education sounds like a good idea, although I’m not sure how you could depict the realities of sex vs porn without, you know, showing porn of some kind. Though I probably wouldn’t have minded…

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Now, gay porn is a different matter. Gay porn actors have NO test requirements for the most part, and some are HIV positive. That is why some people rail against cross-over performers.

Isn’t condom use more frequent in gay porn than straight porn? Or is that a myth? Genuinely curious.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

Joanna – that’s a facet I hadn’t thought of. Porn teaching you to be more creative/giving you ideas? Wish we had more of that.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Easily Ion, have people who look like Mom and Dad having sex in a video and that would show the realities of it while not being porn.

Joanna
9 years ago

” I’m not sure how you could depict the realities of sex vs porn without, you know, showing porn of some kind.”

Well, it is different for every person. Some women don’t bend that way and some men don’t last that long.
Sex is, well, fantastic, when two people know each other that intimately and know what they like and stuff. I suppose then, that would make good porn cos they’re both having a blast.

magdelyn
9 years ago

Captain Bathrobe:

I believe you are correct. According to this article (http://articles.latimes.com/2004/apr/22/local/me-adult22)

“…Roughly half of the actors in gay pornographic films are HIV positive, health officials estimate, but that reflects the population the actors are drawn from, not the practices on the films, according to producers and AIDS activists…”

Pecunium
9 years ago

I don’t know that I blame porn for the “your dick is too small” industry.

Back in the day, when porn was hard to find, and “Hustler” was about as raunchy as one could get as a mainstream supply, there were still ads for enlargement.

I recall a friend (who worked in a magazine bindery) talking about, “Ron Jeremy enlargers”, because the back of the magazines he was working on were touting them. That was, ca. 1985, and Jeremy and Holmes were being touted, not as average, but as exceptional. The women were moaning and groaning in their flicks (this was when there were still thriving theaters with porn on the screen, being projected from film), not because Joe Blow was small, but because Holmes was a mutant.

I know a couple of guys who are huge. They’ve been told that oral is fine,but there is no way that they are getting PIV or anal.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

Easily Ion, have people who look like Mom and Dad having sex in a video and that would show the realities of it while not being porn.

Maybe if you wanted to put them off sex forever 😛

I get what you mean though, realistic representation. That actually exists, it’s called amateur porn. Genuinely amateur I mean, not just pretending to be.

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

My feelings about porn are comparable to my feelings about other working situations: if the people working in it are well-treated, fairly compensated, and satisfied with their work, then I don’t see any problem with it. I think prostitution ought to be legal and regulated for the same reason. I know that abuses still occur where sex work is legal, but at least those who work in the industry have some (theoretical) recourse to the law.

Joanna
9 years ago

“They’ve been told that oral is fine,but there is no way that they are getting PIV or anal.”

I’ve seen a documentary about guys who get penis enlargements and such. While most is due to insecurity, others just…like having huge balls. There was one guy who had balls so big he had to lift them with both hands. He couldn’t have sex at all but he didn’t care. The mind boggles….

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