Two atheists get in an elevator
So here’s a hilarious atheist joke for you all:
Two atheists at a conference get into an elevator at 4 AM. The dude atheist, apropos of nothing, invites the chick atheist to go to his room with him. The chick atheist, who’s never even spoken to the dude before, is creeped out by this. (She says no.) She mentions the incident in a YouTube video. A shitstorm erupts in the atheist-o-sphere because, like, how could she possibly call an atheist dude a creep and aren’t women treated worse in Islamist Theocracies?
Then Richard Dawkins says,
Dear Muslima
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.
Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so . . .
And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
Richard
In a followup comment, Dawkins tops that bit of hilarity with this:
Rebecca’s feeling that the man’s proposition was ‘creepy’ was her own interpretation of his behaviour, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me.
Damn. That joke didn’t turn out to be really very hilarious at all. Maybe I told it wrong?
In any case, as you might already know (or have gathered), this whole thing actually happened over the past weekend. The atheist chick in question is Rebecca Watson, a popular blogger who calls herself Skepchick. The conference in question was the Center for Inquiry’s Student Leadership Conference. The part of Richard Dawkins was played by, well, Richard Dawkins. (You can find both of his comments quoted here.)
The incident has been hashed and rehashed endlessly in the atheist-o-sphere (and even out of it), but I think it deserves a tiny bit more re-rehashing. Mainly because it illustrates that some really creepy, backwards attitudes can lurk deep in the hearts of dudes who think of themselves as enlightened, rational dudes fighting the evils of superstition and, yes, religious misogyny.
The strangest thing about the whole incident is how supremely mild Watson’s comments on the creepy elevator dude were. Here is literally all she said about him, in passing, in her video (transcribed here):
So I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’
Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner.
That’s it. That’s the whole thing. You would think that most guys would be well aware that accosting a woman you’ve never met before in an elevator at 4 AM is, you know, kind of a no-no. But, no, Watson’s comments suddenly became an attack on male sexuality and men in general. One critic put up a video lambasting Watson, ending it with the question:
What effect do you think it has on men to be constantly told how sexist and destructive they are?
Never mind that she didn’t, you know, actually do that at all. Nor did she even remotely suggest, despite Dawkins’ weird screed, that creepy dudes on elevators were somehow equivalent to genital mutilation or the general denial of women’s rights in Islamist theocracies. She merely suggested that guys might want to think twice before hitting on women who are alone with them in an elevator at four in the morning. Pointing out the creepy behavior of one particular dude is not the same as calling all men creepy.
Now, the atheist movement tends to be a bit of a sausagefest, pervaded by some fairly backwards notions about women. (Prominent atheist pontificator Christopher Hitchens, you may recall, seems to sincerely believe that women just aren’t funny. Not that he’s exactly a barrel of monkeys himself.) But some of the most vociferous critics of Watson have been other atheist women – including the one I quoted above.
Watson responded to this in the first of several posts she wrote about the whole weird controversy:
I hear a lot of misogyny from skeptics and atheists, but when ancient anti-woman rhetoric like the above is repeated verbatim by a young woman online, it validates that misogyny in a way that goes above and beyond the validation those men get from one another. It also negatively affects the women who are nervous about being in similar situations. Some of them have been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted, and some just don’t want to be put in that position. And they read these posts and watch these videos and they think, “If something were to happen to me and these women won’t stand up for me, who will?”
In a followup post, she noted:
When I started this site, I didn’t call myself a feminist. I had a hazy idea that feminism was a good thing, but it was something that other people worried about, not me. I was living in a time and culture that had transcended the need for feminism, because in my world we were all rational atheists who had thrown off our religious indoctrination so that I could freely make rape jokes without fear of hurting someone who had been raped.
And then I would make a comment about how there could really be more women in the community, and the responses from my fellow skeptics and atheists ranged from “No, they’re not logical like us,” to “Yes, so we can fuck them!” That seemed weird.
Watson began hearing from other women in the skeptic/atheist community who’d met far too many of that second sort of male atheist.
They told me about how they were hit on constantly and it drove them away. I didn’t fully get it at the time, because I didn’t mind getting hit on. But I acknowledged their right to feel that way and I started suggesting to the men that maybe they relax a little and not try to get in the pants of every woman who walks through the door.
And then, as her blog garnered more attention, she faced a virtual invasion of creepy dudes being creepy:
I’ve had more and more messages from men who tell me what they’d like to do to me, sexually. More and more men touching me without permission at conferences. More and more threats of rape from those who don’t agree with me, even from those who consider themselves skeptics and atheists. More and more people telling me to shut up and go back to talking about Bigfoot and other topics that really matter.
She didn’t shut up.
So here we are today. I am a feminist, because skeptics and atheists made me one. Every time I mention, however delicately, a possible issue of misogyny or objectification in our community, the response I get shows me that the problem is much worse than I thought, and so I grow angrier. I knew that eventually I would reach a sort of feminist singularity where I would explode and in my place would rise some kind of Captain Planet-type superhero but for feminists. I believe that day has nearly arrived.
Go read the rest of her post. Despite the creepy dudes and the misogyny and Richard Fucking Dawkins’ patronizing little screed – which led Watson to a moment of despair much like that of virtually every movie hero(ine) at the end of act two in the story arc – Watson ends it fairly hopeful. It’s kind of inspiring, really.
Posted on July 6, 2011, in creepy, feminism, hypocrisy, misogyny, oppressed men, patriarchy, rape, reactionary bullshit, sexual harassment, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,701 Comments.
Agreed.
So, how ’bout them Sox?
Forgot the apology: If your therapist doesn’t want you coming here, I should refrain from addressing you so it’s easier to stay away. I’m sorry that I don’t have the strength to do so.
We do have to be careful with the little darlings feelings…they are such delicate tings after all.
/sarcasm for those who are not able to pick up on it.
Which Sox? There are three of them right?
I was just thinking that the main “holy shit, that was fucked-up or outright scary” incidents in my life with strange men have happened pre-dawn.
#1) I’m London and can’t sleep from jet-lag, so I showered, threw on a sweatshirt and jenas and went to the Starbucks around the corner from the hotel for coffee. On the way back, a guy pulls up to the curb and says, “Hey love, would you like some company?” I’m gobsmacked, but yell, “NO” and he takes off. He thought I was a hooker in my wet hair and sweats. Time: 5am-ish.
2.) I’m leaving to pick up a friend at the airport around 5:30am. It’s dark and rainy (it’s Seattle) and my car is across the street from my building. As I’m leaving my building, this dude (foreign, but don’t know what) come up to me and asks me to give him a ride. I say no and keep going to my car. This fucker, nay, this CREEPY fucker, is following me. I get in, and he tries the passenger side handle, thank god it’s locked. He’s saying something, I don’t know what, but as I start the car I realize I will run his ass over if he doesn’t move. That incident had me freaked out for quite a bit afterward.
So yeah, if I get approached pre-dawn, I might be more than a bit leery. I suppose according to some, I should just be grateful for the attention. *giant fucking eyeroll to that*
@Johnny Pez How about the next Magic card story? I mean, I dunno nothing about sports… >>
In New England, there’s only one pair of Sox.
Sox?
I owe MRAL an apology. He hasn’t been talking about himself in this thread that much and I overreacted. Sorry, MRAL.
Asking you to try to be aware of what’s going on around you, what you do and how you act is not asking you to rewrite the collected works of William Shakespeare from memory using toilet paper and chalk. If you’re going to look at it as being impossible or not worth your time, I’m going to call you a whiner. Chances are I won’t be alone. Deal with it, whiner.
Like I said, and you ignored, I’m not against common courtesy. But if some easily-offended nutcase with emotional issues decides that I somehow made them feel uncomfortable, I’m not the one with the problem. And I’m not alone in this. Tuck your dick between your legs and slink through life apologizing for your Y-chromosome, mangina.
Geez, I only have one creepy guy story-once when I was sitting a bus stop with a friend this guy in a pick up drives up (shirtless) and asked us if we wanted to go have sex with him. I just kind of laughed and said no. We were 15 and cell phones had not become common or I would have called the cops on his ass because he was rather obviously masturbating when he stopped.
“Like I said, and you ignored, I’m not against common courtesy. But if some easily-offended nutcase with emotional issues decides that I somehow made them feel uncomfortable, I’m not the one with the problem. And I’m not alone in this. Tuck your dick between your legs and slink through life apologizing for your Y-chromosome, mangina.”
Shorter Ion: “You can’t tell me what to do! I’m a MAN!” *beats chest*
OK, I don’t have any specific plot details for the next story, but I do know it’s going to be treading Michael Bay territory, only hopefully not as stupid.
Ion said:
Well, not exactly, They responded with things like this:
and this:
And by “they” of course I mean “you,” since these are both quotes from you in this thread.
She responded to the incident with a mild “uh, dudes, don’t hit on women when you’re alone with them in an elevator at 4 AM.” You responded to her mild comments by claiming she’d “all but accused” the guy of rape. You also got on her case for being in an elevator at 4 AM.
And you weren’t the only one with this outsized reaction to her comments. That’s why it turned into a big deal, and that’s why we’re here discussing it. Not her comments, but the outsized, sometimes vaguely hysterical, reaction to her comments.
Everybody needs to go back a page and read what FedUpVT posted. I can wait.
… Done?
There is a big problem in the atheist/skeptical movement about the lack of women, and its been handled rather poorly. You get guys on a panel talking about how to attract more women (no woman on the panel), etc. A lot of it is more on the low key side, you don’t see a lot of “women are simply inferior” or “women are children” or whatever, but you do see the kind of stuff Watson mentioned. As she said, she’s in a foreign country, in an elevator at 4am, alone with a guy, and he asks her to go back to his room. She says no, he complies. Done.
This behavior is the kind of mild-yet-irritating behavior of male skeptics/atheists that may be preventing more women from being active members of these organizations. All it requires is some subtle changes in behavior, some better awareness, and the ability to actually listen to the people who say you are being creepy to avoid being creepy.
The real scandal here is the reaction to Watson’s comments, not necessarily the situation she commented about. Dawkins flies in and says she shouldn’t be complaining about so trivial a matter, because oooh look how other women have it (I believe he’s since understood that this is a bad argument, from his comments on Pharyngula). But what happened in this thread, especially on Ion’s side, is what the problem exactly is; that whenever women suggest a way for the skeptic/atheist movement to improve things for women, suddenly it turns into “rape accusations” here and “all men are creepy” there. Chill the fuck out. Let the people who you are trying to include tell you why they feel excluded/uneasy, and fucking listen to them (PZ wrote something similar, though a bit more bombastic, here).
tl;dr: A suggestion by a woman on how men in the atheist/skeptic movement could make the movement more inclusive turns into a big tempest of bull-headedness and misogyny. Instead of taking everything personally, let the excluded group tell you why they are feeling excluded, and listen.
So… giant robots?
Giant *trans spider* robots? :D
Ion wrote, “She then chose to make an issue out of it by mentioning this ‘creep’ on her blog. People took offense to the description, again based on the facts. That’s it. Like you said, I don’t know what’s so complicated.”
Ion’s first comment on this thread: “My guess – the guy wasn’t attractive. If he had been, she would’ve been recounting it the next day as an exotic adventure.”
Why you gotta make it so complicated, Ion?
erm, what’s your point? Those two things are not mutually exclusive. And it’s not complicated.
I used to think Brad Pitt was totally hot (bit old for me now, but in Seven etc. he looked great), but I just find him less and less attractive the more MRAs tell me I find him the ultimate symbol of masculinity.
Molly Ren: I loooove Greg Grunberg :D I think there’s a lot of projection in MRAs who talk about ‘alphas’ and the ridiculous physical characteristics men are held to (if they fail they are abused and spit on). Like, an ‘omega’ guy who insults an ‘omega’ girl and holds ‘beta’ girls to ridiculous standards, yet lives in constant feaI fear of women treating him the way he treats them.
I feel like guys who are dicks about women’s appearence are kinda bizarre. I fancy fat guys and skinny guys and all the rest, I can’t imagine restricting my imagination to just Brad Pitt and his ilk!
“Those two things are not mutually exclusive.”
Ion, they are. Really. Being hot does not automatically mean you get everything in the world.
hmm… my strong tags seem to have failed. The bold should have stoped at “commented about.” and begun again at “who you are trying”. My bad.
I think it’s important to reiterate, for the zillionth time, that all SkepChick did was say how she felt. She didn’t say “this is how I felt, therefore men are evil” or “this is how I felt, therefore this guy should be in jail.” There wasn’t any “therefore” at all.
She just said this made her uncomfortable. So if you don’t want to make women uncomfortable, maybe don’t do this.
If you don’t care how women feel, then… well, you can continue to accost them in elevators to your heart’s content. There’s no penalty. It’s a free country. Go nuts.
But what these guys are asking isn’t to accost women in elevators. What they’re really asking is to accost women in elevators and have us like it. (Or, if we do feel bad, deliberately hide that feeling.) That, I’m afraid, is never going to happen.
You are totally right Ion-I know a prosecutor who has a useless left arm because he asked a guy to please leave him alone and the guy whipped out a knife and nearly cut this prosecutor’s arm off when he was in college.
It was obviously the prosecutor’s fault since he should have known how bad the guy would feel to be told to leave him alone and should have let the guy bother him.
@Kirby & @Holly Yeah, we’ve pretty much missed the point for this whole thread. : / But what can ya do?
(Psst, this is maybe why we need a forum. We could stay on topic? o.O)
“HOT MEN ARE CAPABLE OF BEING CREEPY/ASSHOLES AND SHOULDN’T GET PASSES FOR IT”
Seriously. I mean, Ted Bundy was pretty cute *shudder*.
Not sure why I bothered trying to have an actual discussion with someone who considers this 1) a clever argument or 2) a clever insult.
@Molly:
I actually don’t blame you guys, I blame Ion. :P I know how tempting it is to follow the derail, and Ion threw a screwball from nearly the very first post that no one could resist. I did see a couple posts that were clearly reading more into the situation than was there… but still, when someone starts throwing around “creepy=rapist” its impossible not to take the bait…
trials and tribulations of Omega Man?!?!
Well, to be fair those zombies really were pretty violent toward Heston…
She responded to the incident with a mild “uh, dudes, don’t hit on women when you’re alone with them in an elevator at 4 AM.” You responded to her mild comments by claiming she’d “all but accused” the guy of rape.
Mild? I guess, except for the ‘creepy and sexualizing’ parts, which you conveniently forgot, and which are the exact things I and others responded to. I also quite specifically said the commenters did the accusing, another thing you’ve overlooked.
You also got on her case for being in an elevator at 4 AM.
Haven’t I already responded to Molly about this? The thing about taking one sentence out of context and ignoring the rest? Where I said they were both in the elevator because they’d just left the bar?
And you weren’t the only one with this outsized reaction to her comments. That’s why it turned into a big deal, and that’s why we’re here discussing it. Not her comments, but the outsized, sometimes vaguely hysterical, reaction to her comments.
Whereas the people on her side were all perfectly calm and reasonable, I suppose. Come on, man. When astronauts look down at Earth, they see two things – the Great Wall of China, and your bias.
I’m pretty certain that Plymouth the Inventor has a number of giant spider robots in her arsenal. The trans part may be tricky.
So do you still think the guy’s treatment still entirely hinges on his hotness, Ion?
Seriously. I mean, Ted Bundy was pretty cute *shudder*.
Wasn’t he also getting love letters from women while he was in prison?
The ignorance shown by some members of the atheist community over this incident is really disappointing. Watson did not “demonize” anyone. I too would be creeped out if a complete stranger asked me back to his room–alone–for coffee. There is such social pressure placed on women to avoid becoming the victims of sexual assault. Don’t wear short skirts, don’t go to bars, don’t stay in hotels by yourself, don’t travel alone…the list goes on. And I’m appalled by that social pressure because it is so damn prevalent. Say she had said yes, and she’d gone back to his room, and he’d assaulted her? I guarantee you these same assholes would be criticizing her for being so “careless.”
Even the request itself reeks of privilege. Of course it didn’t occur to him that she might be concerned for her personal safety alone, at 4 am–his actions make it clear he’s never had to worry about that once in his life. As for Dawkins’ screed, I find it disturbing on a couple levels, but I’m disgusted that he’s employed such gruesome stereotypes about Muslim women to make a point. Or try to. I’d say he failed in that endeavor.
So do you still think the guy’s treatment still entirely hinges on his hotness, Ion?
Not entirely, but I think it was a factor, yes.
I’m pretty sure that when astronauts look down on the earth they see many other human creations (like, for example, cities) far more clearly than they see the great wall of China or my bias.
Yes, she said she thought his behavior was creepy, hence why it wasn’t a good idea to hit on a women at 4 am when you’re in an elevator alone with her. “Sexualizing” is sort of implicit, in that he was, you know, hitting on her.
She didn’t accuse him of rape. She didn’t even call him a creep. She just said that this particular behavior was creepy.
And when did “creep” become the worst insult in the world?
Wasn’t he also getting love letters from women while he was in prison?
Hah! Yeah, he was. Jesus, really says something about the power of looks, doesn’t it?
When Ion decreed it so. Or was it Roissy that did so?
Does Ion have a card?
o_O
…BWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHahahahaha hahahahahahaha!!!
Dude, your irony is showing. :D
“Seriously. I mean, Ted Bundy was pretty cute *shudder*.
“Wasn’t he also getting love letters from women while he was in prison?”
Ion, you say that like it’s a good thing. o.O
I’m starting to think that what Ion and his ilk really want (well, besides to argue with anything David posts, even if it’s kittens or “sun to rise in the east tomorrow,”) isn’t for SkepChick to have worded her complaint more gently. It isn’t even for her to have kept her mouth shut.
They want her to have fucked the guy.
Tell me if I’m wrong, Ion and anyone else on the MRA side–would anything less really satisfy?
Sight correction, kirbywarp. Ion’s derail was in fact the very first comment. Poor thread never had a chance.
So, giant trans spider robots. Any other requests?
No, MRAL, but it does say a lot for the power of stupidity.
Bill Hicks on Ted Bundy:
“Wasn’t he also getting love letters from women while he was in prison?”
Of course. You’re so right. He wasn’t creepy at all. You guys should all follow his example, if you’re under 6ft we’ll only fuck you if you’re a serial killer.
Holy WTF o_o;;
Wow… ok.. first off, I think the reactions by Dawkins et al are pretty defensive and over-reacting.. and as usual “you aren’t as suffering as much as you COULD be!” I mean -_-;; So then we can tell the poor offended guys “it could be worse, she could have accused him of rape!” right? Since guys bring it up (like in this thread xD), should we be comparing everythiing to that? “So she called you creepy, jeez, she could have accused you of RAPE!” -_-
I also dunno the details.. did she name names? o_O Like did she out his name and say “that dude is CREEPY” or did she just say some guy approached her and it was creepy? o_O apparently women shouldn’t talk anonymously about encounters they have had that bother them now? o_O
Like I feel like this is going in circles… ppl think PZ is saying that men should be mind readers.. but then the response is basically saying that WOMEN should be too.. how do we know he’s asking for sex? he could be honestly asking about coffee… or maybe he had no ill intent! so.. yeah… I agree.. men can’t be mind readers.. but at the same time, neither can WOMEN..
I’m just confused -_-;; Honestly, I wish guys who approach me phrased it more like that, but that’s me, and that’s also my exp… this clearly bothered her, and she said it did (and as far as I can tell didn’t say “MEN SHOULD BE BANNED FROM DOING THIS” or nething, she gave advice, which nobody has to take, and said how it made her feel.. a LOT of other women feel like her… but so… what’s the solution? Like is the problem that she shouldn’t THINK these things? or that she shouldn’t talk about them or…? i’m just kinda wondering what her critics want? she didn’t even name him… is she not allowed to say that random guys make her feel uncomfortable?
I dun mind ppl criticizing her.. but then they can be criticized too…and it’s just… kinda weird the reaction to her :\ can no woman ever talk about how she feels creeped out w/o it becoming this “all women do this and you know that if he was hot she wouldn’t and blah blah”… can’t she just speak to her feelings? o_O
From what ppl say she said, it’s as tame as what HE said… why is this a big deal? o_O
Why would you drink coffee at 4am? Even if I drink it after 8pm, I have trouble getting to sleep. I think she rejected him because her evo-psych cavewoman vagina knew he’d only give her dumb baby genes.
Go nuts.
judging from some of the comments, you are a bit late with this recommendation.
Holly Pervocracy | July 6, 2011 at 7:53 pm
I’m starting to think that what Ion and his ilk really want (well, besides to argue with anything David posts, even if it’s kittens or “sun to rise in the east tomorrow,”) isn’t for SkepChick to have worded her complaint more gently. It isn’t even for her to have kept her mouth shut.
They want her to have fucked the guy.
Tell me if I’m wrong, Ion and anyone else on the MRA side–would anything less really satisfy?
I’m wondering about that… what do ppl want her to do? It seems from reading the argument, that it’s not even just that she shouldn’t SAY things, it’s that she should change her thoughts o_O Esp the comments from MRAL… she represents all women, and she needs to prove that all women aren’t alpha-seeking hos by sleeping w/ him o_O
Like suddenly this ONE thing has become not just an example, but like a battleground… she didn’t want to go to his room, this means something about ALL women, and it means that OBJECTIVELY she was incorrect (she should have considered what ppl in other countries were going thru) and .. I dunno.. what? o_O
I mean I get that ppl can feel however they want about her, but it seems like this is becoming some “battle to end all battles”.. hold the line boys!
I just kinda wonder.. what should she have done and why? o_O
Like is the problem that she shouldn’t THINK these things?
I believe so. She shouldn’t have found his behavior creepy. Even if (like many women) she had reason to be cautious when alone, isolated, with a strange man, in the middle of the night.
Arks makes a good point here.
What’s really lame about claiming that she’s expecting men to read women’s minds is that she is saying this specifically so that men don’t have to read her mind. She’s saying: “don’t do this, it creeps women out.” Women by-and-large seem to be agreeing with her on this.
A decent person who doesn’t want to creep other people out will file this information away under “good to know” and act accordingly. A dickhead will whine about being required to “read a woman’s mind” and being “all but accused of rape” when in fact all they are doing is receiving useful feedback. You’re free to ignore this feedback, but you do so at the risk of being thought a creep.
Honestly, I think there’s a rly interesting discussion to have here about what it’s like being a woman in a community or field dominated by men, and how this might have had something to do w/ her reaction (and that doesn’t mean it’s FAIR to any random guy who approaches her….does it affect how men and women interact, should men or women or both be aware or etc etc etc) … and other such issues… but I dun think we can have this discussion right now w/ a couple ppl here who have other agendas :\
So, giant trans spider robots. Any other requests?
ZOMBIES.
i mean, duh.
@Ami:
We’d probably need women who are active in the skeptical community… and probably men as well… (I’m not very active) If everyone played straight though, I think the trolls would get bored and leave. Its happened before. *hopeful face*
Now if only Watson would magically show up here… I can’t help but think it would be a terrible idea though…
They want her to have fucked the guy.
Tell me if I’m wrong, Ion and anyone else on the MRA side–would anything less really satisfy?
And then she would have been a ‘ho and a skank. I don’t think she could have won no matter what she did.
Ami, are there any zombie cards? I’m starting to lose track.
I think Kirby has it down here… and about what the real issue here (unless of course the real issue isn’t the RESPONSE to her, but about her thinking he’s creepy? IS that the real issue? o_O Somebody should read MY blog… I quote ppl (anonymously) who creep me out… go condemn me! xD why am I not a representative of all womankind but she is? o_O )
I have made none so far… ZRM vanished before I started making the cards :\
What Holly said, should she have fucked theguy? Any of us who have been propositioned/approached/catcalled/whatever, should we have just sucked it up, and started sucking? I’ve lost the rule book, apparently.
@Kirby well it doesn’t have to be THAT particular comm, but it would certainly help (I know some but they are not here xD ) I def have an idea from the comms I’m involved, esp when I was a semi-big name in female comics blogdom xD
ZRM vanished before I started making the cards :\
It’s all part of the very complex and subtle plan for the Zombocalypse. Sometimes I have trouble keeping track myself.
I find something interesting tho… we have no info about any details.. how he said what he said, who he is, what he looks like etc.. but what if she said she went w/ him and had sex? o_O Would MRAL assume he was a hot alpha guy? Would he then get angry about how easily hot alpha guys get women? o_O Is whether you’re an alpha or omega (again we have NO Idea nething about him) purely if women LIKE the guy? o_O
But a bigger point… if it was about the SPECIFIC type of guy (ugly, etc) wouldn’t she say “look UGLY guys, don’t hit on women”? B/c if she WANTS hot guys to hit on her why would she say she doesn’t like it at all? o_O She’d be discouraging ALL guys when she (apparently) sekritly wants CERTAIN guys…
right? o_O (it’s hard to follow when ppl are telling me how my entire gender, and therefore me, think.. xD )
Yay he’s back! :D
@Elizabeth:
When Ion decreed it so. Or was it Roissy that did so?
Does Ion have a card?
Does he even merit a card? If he gets one, it should be a creature that is both insubstantial and forgettable–like a ghost that causes amnesia. (Of course, then Amnesia wouldn’t have a unique special power :( ). Also, his allegiances should be unclear, as he denies being an MRA and claims to be detached and above it all. He should only be a 2/2 at most.
Just my two cents. Ami’s free to work her magic, as it were, however she likes. :)
@Simone Lovelace… “All men should wish to avoid making women uncomfortable. Therefore, no men should do what elevator dude did.”
Oh yes delicate princess, that very thought should consume a mans every waking thought. Because I’m sure that’s what consumes womens thoughts, a mans comfort.
@KristinMH… “Because just because you don’t believe in God doesn’t mean that you don’t think that you’re entitlted to women’s time, attention, and bodies.”
A mans attention should be given at HER command, not when you feel like it. Your feelings are little more than an animals instinct.
@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth… “I find men trying to proposition me at 4 in the morning amusing. Of course if 13 is asking me the laughing is more like flirty giggles then “oh my god, really? hahahahah!”
Women demand the “right” to never feel uncomfortable in any way, while reserving the right to laugh in a mans face. Maybe thats why he waited to be alone, so he wouldn’t be humiliated in public.
@Molly Ren…”Seriously, tho, she does add “don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner”
Aww, the poor dear, out drinking all night, flirting like a $5 hooker doesn’t want men to sexualize her. How can men think like that?
@MissPrism… “And do stop pretending that “come to my hotel room for coffee” isn’t likely to be taken as a sexual proposition.”
Alert the media, a man wants to have sex with a woman. Something not heard of in 5000 years.
@Comrade Svilova… “Seriously, though, the major point is that maybe this guy could have had a chance”
A chance to bask in the presence of one of the glorified. He asked sooo little.
@Joanna… “A stranger offering me coffee in his hotel room is no different than a stranger offering me candy in his van.”
Evil men with their wicked ways stalking women to instll fear and horror.
@Plymouth… “Geez, since when is “creepy” the worlds greatest insult”
It’s impossible for women to insult men, they’re just too perfect.
@FedUpVT… “How DARE this woman tell us enlightened men how to behave! It’s an infringement on my First Amendment Penis!”
Mens ego’s are so easily bruised. Man up. pig, and stop insulting women.
@hellkell… “So yeah, if I get approached pre-dawn, I might be more than a bit leery. I suppose according to some, I should just be grateful for the attention. *giant fucking eyeroll to that*”
Men are scary and evil. Stupid men, women don’t ever want YOUR attention. Big ole eyeroll in you face.
@Magical Laura… “I feel like guys who are dicks about women’s appearence are kinda bizarre. I fancy fat guys and skinny guys and all the rest, I can’t imagine restricting my imagination to just Brad Pitt and his ilk!”
Any feeling a woman has is paramount. Guys are dicks. full stop.
@Holly Pervocracy… “She just said this made her uncomfortable. So if you don’t want to make women uncomfortable, maybe don’t do this.”
Men should go thru a checklist so ensure they never make a woman feel uncomfortable. Women aren’t put on this planet for a mans comfort, thats your male privilege you’ve become accustomed to.
@sarahejones… “Even the request itself reeks of privilege. Of course it didn’t occur to him that she might be concerned for her personal safety alone.”
The audacity of the privileged male. He should have trained himself to instantly noticed her unease and ran in the other direction.
What a piece of shit is the modern day woman, slutwalking about like a back alley whore yet the delicate snowflake melts, screaming like a spoilt child if she “feels” in anyway slighted. She damands respect, love and affection at all times while offering only to bask in her self delusional perfection. Every word that falls from her painted lips must be held in the deepest reverence. A mans disagreement shocks her delicate sensibilites as a foul diatribe is vomited forth.
Be sure to moderate this Dave, lest these frail flowers wilt underneath my harsh words.
Hellkell, I think Watson’s best option would have been to pull out a Big Fucking Gun and get all Zoe Washburne on the guy’s ass. That’s what Ion is looking for here.
Also we have no idea about THE GUY here o_O Is HE upset? Has he NEVER had sex before? some ppl seem to be assuming he’s ALWAYS being rejected… again, why is Skepchick being treated as the every woman? o_O ppl seem to be acting as if this is the only encounter Skepchick AND this guy have ever had in their lives o_O (and in some cases like the only encounter any woman and any men have ever had in human history xD)
I was thinking that he could be some kind of swarmy neutral third party guy who tries to avoid being seen as a MRA supporter for his own nasty reasons.
Johnny Pez, that sounds like science fiction!
And he has the power to silence women or would if he was any good at it but really not very good.