Two atheists get in an elevator
So here’s a hilarious atheist joke for you all:
Two atheists at a conference get into an elevator at 4 AM. The dude atheist, apropos of nothing, invites the chick atheist to go to his room with him. The chick atheist, who’s never even spoken to the dude before, is creeped out by this. (She says no.) She mentions the incident in a YouTube video. A shitstorm erupts in the atheist-o-sphere because, like, how could she possibly call an atheist dude a creep and aren’t women treated worse in Islamist Theocracies?
Then Richard Dawkins says,
Dear Muslima
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.
Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so . . .
And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
Richard
In a followup comment, Dawkins tops that bit of hilarity with this:
Rebecca’s feeling that the man’s proposition was ‘creepy’ was her own interpretation of his behaviour, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me.
Damn. That joke didn’t turn out to be really very hilarious at all. Maybe I told it wrong?
In any case, as you might already know (or have gathered), this whole thing actually happened over the past weekend. The atheist chick in question is Rebecca Watson, a popular blogger who calls herself Skepchick. The conference in question was the Center for Inquiry’s Student Leadership Conference. The part of Richard Dawkins was played by, well, Richard Dawkins. (You can find both of his comments quoted here.)
The incident has been hashed and rehashed endlessly in the atheist-o-sphere (and even out of it), but I think it deserves a tiny bit more re-rehashing. Mainly because it illustrates that some really creepy, backwards attitudes can lurk deep in the hearts of dudes who think of themselves as enlightened, rational dudes fighting the evils of superstition and, yes, religious misogyny.
The strangest thing about the whole incident is how supremely mild Watson’s comments on the creepy elevator dude were. Here is literally all she said about him, in passing, in her video (transcribed here):
So I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’
Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner.
That’s it. That’s the whole thing. You would think that most guys would be well aware that accosting a woman you’ve never met before in an elevator at 4 AM is, you know, kind of a no-no. But, no, Watson’s comments suddenly became an attack on male sexuality and men in general. One critic put up a video lambasting Watson, ending it with the question:
What effect do you think it has on men to be constantly told how sexist and destructive they are?
Never mind that she didn’t, you know, actually do that at all. Nor did she even remotely suggest, despite Dawkins’ weird screed, that creepy dudes on elevators were somehow equivalent to genital mutilation or the general denial of women’s rights in Islamist theocracies. She merely suggested that guys might want to think twice before hitting on women who are alone with them in an elevator at four in the morning. Pointing out the creepy behavior of one particular dude is not the same as calling all men creepy.
Now, the atheist movement tends to be a bit of a sausagefest, pervaded by some fairly backwards notions about women. (Prominent atheist pontificator Christopher Hitchens, you may recall, seems to sincerely believe that women just aren’t funny. Not that he’s exactly a barrel of monkeys himself.) But some of the most vociferous critics of Watson have been other atheist women – including the one I quoted above.
Watson responded to this in the first of several posts she wrote about the whole weird controversy:
I hear a lot of misogyny from skeptics and atheists, but when ancient anti-woman rhetoric like the above is repeated verbatim by a young woman online, it validates that misogyny in a way that goes above and beyond the validation those men get from one another. It also negatively affects the women who are nervous about being in similar situations. Some of them have been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted, and some just don’t want to be put in that position. And they read these posts and watch these videos and they think, “If something were to happen to me and these women won’t stand up for me, who will?”
In a followup post, she noted:
When I started this site, I didn’t call myself a feminist. I had a hazy idea that feminism was a good thing, but it was something that other people worried about, not me. I was living in a time and culture that had transcended the need for feminism, because in my world we were all rational atheists who had thrown off our religious indoctrination so that I could freely make rape jokes without fear of hurting someone who had been raped.
And then I would make a comment about how there could really be more women in the community, and the responses from my fellow skeptics and atheists ranged from “No, they’re not logical like us,” to “Yes, so we can fuck them!” That seemed weird.
Watson began hearing from other women in the skeptic/atheist community who’d met far too many of that second sort of male atheist.
They told me about how they were hit on constantly and it drove them away. I didn’t fully get it at the time, because I didn’t mind getting hit on. But I acknowledged their right to feel that way and I started suggesting to the men that maybe they relax a little and not try to get in the pants of every woman who walks through the door.
And then, as her blog garnered more attention, she faced a virtual invasion of creepy dudes being creepy:
I’ve had more and more messages from men who tell me what they’d like to do to me, sexually. More and more men touching me without permission at conferences. More and more threats of rape from those who don’t agree with me, even from those who consider themselves skeptics and atheists. More and more people telling me to shut up and go back to talking about Bigfoot and other topics that really matter.
She didn’t shut up.
So here we are today. I am a feminist, because skeptics and atheists made me one. Every time I mention, however delicately, a possible issue of misogyny or objectification in our community, the response I get shows me that the problem is much worse than I thought, and so I grow angrier. I knew that eventually I would reach a sort of feminist singularity where I would explode and in my place would rise some kind of Captain Planet-type superhero but for feminists. I believe that day has nearly arrived.
Go read the rest of her post. Despite the creepy dudes and the misogyny and Richard Fucking Dawkins’ patronizing little screed – which led Watson to a moment of despair much like that of virtually every movie hero(ine) at the end of act two in the story arc – Watson ends it fairly hopeful. It’s kind of inspiring, really.
Posted on July 6, 2011, in creepy, feminism, hypocrisy, misogyny, oppressed men, patriarchy, rape, reactionary bullshit, sexual harassment, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,701 Comments.
Awesome! Is there an index or something?
(also, my boyfriend is a total magic geek and says that it should have R: gains flying until end of turn)
Also, hugs at @firebee as well. That sounds like a very creepy situation, frankly. Glad they knocked it off after the second… whatever they were doing.
@firebee tell your BF that they’re a sliver clone. He’ll understand they’re overpowered as is :-p
Life’s a Beetch and so are Slivers xD
Firebee is one of us. One of us!
I was just thinking of this, as I was walking the dogs in the out of doors in the dead of night. Does anyone remember the episode of Six Feet Under where the deceased is a college girl whose male friends thought it would be funny to stalk her in an empty parking garage, and scared her so much that she ran out into the street without looking and got hit by a car?
It’s been a few years since I saw it, so excuse me if I’m getting some of the details wrong. What I remember most about it is that the friends are so confused that what they did scared her so much; they were just joking around. And the dead girl’s mom and sisters are like, What the FUCK? How could you not know?
To draw a crude analogy, I feel like that’s what’s going on here, with this story, with some people saying, We don’t what his intentions are; what’s the big deal anyway? And others saying, What do you mean what’s the big deal? Four a.m.! Hotel elevator! Scary! And I guess what it comes down to for me is, sure, maybe you feel like an ass for a minute after someone tells you that your attention may not be wanted by every woman all the time. I get that. But that other person? Might be scared for her life. And here you are complaining because your attentions weren’t accepted.
Anyway, i guess none of that is anything that hasn’t already been said on this thread. I just always like to tie everything to Six Feet Under when I can. Six Degrees of Six Feet Under.
Oh, hey Johnny. I’ll vacate the head if you want me to. I was just joking around. No need to sic Elizabeth and the hose on me!
I have to admit, I’m kind of vaguely dissatisfied a lot of the time with how the Schroedinger’s Rapist concept is explained. It does not help that some folks apparently read it as “big and scary word in front of ‘rapist’”, cue howling about how they are not a rapist, are not are not ARE NOT!
Some of this, of course, is less than honest.
But there’s something about the original article and some of the ways that people relate the concepts therein that ties back to the common vocabulary and understood body of knowledge of feminsts rather than the general population, I think, which is kind of unfortunate if the person you are attempting to explain the thing to is resolutely a member of the general population.
I know this was a hundred posts ago, but I hope you guys don’t mind if I interrupt briefly to say that I think the metafilter comments on the original article, might be a better introduction to the concept than the article itself. I was amazed to see Internet Dudes on another forum do a complete 180 and say that it really opened their eyes/helped them empathize without feeling attacked. I think it was this excellent comment by mefite Nattie that they responded to:
http://www.metafilter.com/85667/Hi-Whatcha-reading#67168
Not that I think it will inspire any understanding in MRAs like NWO, but maybe one or more of the many, many personal stories will help some guys wrap their heads around why women can be so cautious/defensive around strange men.
Okay, I’m terrible at posting, so I’ll go back to lurking, but also I really love reading these threads, trolls and all. The forums will be amazing.
I just read through this entire comment thread.
I am now depressed and angry. I’m going to listen to some music and chill out, because the lengths that MRAs are going to stick it to a person who had every right to say “yes” or “no”…and then use that as some “supporting evidence” of how men are being put down by this phantom of theirs…
I mean, yes, there are reasonable posts from people who know better than the MRAs response, but seeing those mental gymnastics get carried out over the course of an entire thread, in the face of all evidence, and even IGNORING THE EVIDENCE TO CREATE HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS IN THEIR PLACE is…oh my fucking god.
That’s all I can say, I’m just angry at this. I guess that’s what I get for being a mangina who agrees with femenism (Which I’m probably doing just to get some pussy and pats on the head from snobby femenist indoctrinated Ameriskanks, but what the fuck ever).
luke123: Typical, It’s not right because you say so. But the truth of the matter is, for you, there will never be a right time. The day after she gives a talk about that subject, in her blog (where she has been known to talk about that subject), when that subject is is a big part of why she is notable in that community…
Not the right time.
But the right time… you will only know it when you see it, and you know this wasn’t the right time because a lot of people got their skivvies in a twist about it, ergo it wasn’t the right time.
Just like it wasn’t the right time for Rosa Parks, or Stonewall, or anything else that goes against the reactionary masses. Because there is always pushback against suggestions of change in the status quo. You’ve already professed you don’t like the status quo, because you think it too favorable to women, ergo you will always think things like this are wrong, and dress it up with a tone argument.
Just as bigots have always done when they are on the defensive.
Nobby —
I remain kind of baffled. Some form of bullying seems like the best match for their actions — there’s a reason, probably, whyfor I have the crack ability to detect giggling approach from the rear — but they must somehow have managed to misread me in that case, because I find it rather hard to believe that such a group would knowingly play social dominance games with a 30-year-old engineer and graduate student.
My thought is that they must have read me wrongly as a peer or a near-peer, correctly as a geek or queer or both, and concluded from this that I was a sufficiently tasty target. It would make sense, at a bit of a stretch, since I was carrying a backpack and wearing typical clothing for my school (which probably would have read as quite geeky clothing for theirs) and they had little opportunity to see my face until I turned entirely around. And the headphones also would have had a different meaning for a fellow high school student as opposed to an adult out walking.
Then also, to a degree I was almost more creeped out on their behalf than on my own count (although I was also that). I mean, they were sneaking up on someone who they didn’t know at all, and what were they planning? To lay hands from behind on someone who could have been a martial artist (as I in fact am) or alternatively a returned veteran, a rape victim, and/or someone who was armed? Or just someone who might have called the police or their school?
The mind boggles.
[02:17] Ami Angelwings: “so wait the jawas were just hiding in that canyon the whole time for a lone droid to wander past?”
[02:18] Kirby: sadly, its usually the jawas that the droids know very well that zap them with electric zappy things and haul them off to be sold…
[02:19] Ami Angelwings: what was r2d2 doing in that canyon at 4am neways?
[02:19] Kirby: he was obviously asking to be sold into slavery
[02:19] Kirby: just look at that metal trim
[02:19] Kirby: what jawa could resist that?
[02:21] Ami Angelwings: vader asking luke to join the dark side after chopping off his hand was only reasonable
[02:21] Ami Angelwings: luke believing that this is creepy is so unfair!
[02:21] Ami Angelwings: besides aren’t there bigger issues to worry about?
[02:21] Ami Angelwings: like the blowing up of planets?
[02:22] Kirby: its not like vader could have *known* before hand that luke wanted his hand
[02:22] Kirby: he’s not a mind reader!
[02:22] Ami Angelwings: XDDD
[02:22] Kirby: and look, he got a robotic one soon after!
[02:22] Kirby: no big deal
Oh xD I’m watching Star Wars if you didn’t guess and chatting w/ Kirby :3 (New Hope, but Empire came to mind too xD )
@Miss Maloney:
I was seriously put off by the shrodinger’s rapist piece when I first read it. It sounded overly paranoid, and I couldn’t understand how you could go life thinking every guy you meet could be a rapist (as if being a rapist was the default, and you had to prove otherwise).
I showed it to one of my female friends to get her opinion on it. Instead of saying “yeah, that’s kinda bizarre,” she lookd thoughtful and said “yeah, that sounds about right.” I was flabbergasted. She wasn’t a big feminist (as far as I can recall), but while I saw hate mongering, she saw a woman revealing a bit of what the normal experiance for women is.
And so, I read it again. And I realized the author wasn’t calling every guy a rapist, she was trying to explain why women are on their guard, and why behaviors that to us guys might be fine, to them might be creepy, and to please respect that. It wasn’t “you are a rapist until proven otherwise,” it was “I just don’t know what your intentions are.” What irritates me the most now is that this mindset exists in the first place… and it really emphasizes how sometimes life really sucks for women…
[02:30] Kirby I never understood why that vent needed to be there…
[02:30] Kirby: it is space after all
[02:31] Kirby: there is no air there..
[02:32] Ami Angelwings: i know xD
[02:33] Ami Angelwings: mind you i don’t understand why the emperor would give accurate plans to the alliance in jedi if he planned it all along xD
[02:33] Kirby: I remember
[02:33] Ami Angelwings: aren’t men supposed to not remember nething?
[02:33] Ami Angelwings: like anniversaries and star wars nitpicks?
[02:33] Kirby: that’s only birthdays and anniveraryies
[02:33] Ami Angelwings: xD
[02:33] Kirby: … and sometimes spelling
[02:34] Ami Angelwings: <3
@Kirby YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND!? Omega male! >:\ *spits*
xD
If you dun want Kirby anymore, can I have him? :D
Why am I afraid this is gonna either lead to being stretched out, pulled back and forth by two people shouting “he’s mine! no he’s mine!” or being auctioned off with two people offering more and more hilariously high bids? :P
o_o
NO! >:O
*clings to Kirby*
however we can share :3
Ion: wish more women did, it just seems very rare right now. It seems very rare… to you.
Not to everyone. Lessee… I’d say about half of my partners have ‘put the moves one me”, not the other way around. I’ve also had women whom I wasn’t interested in (or when I was unavailable) let me know that all I had to do was say yes.
My fiancée, proposed to me. My most recent ex took a bus for three days to see if her interest in me was sexual.
So perhaps it’s not women, but you.
GEEZ, all this insanity, just because a woman had the gall to say, online: “Hey, when you are a stranger hanging around me for hours at a convention (to the point where I recognize you, a total stranger) and you don’t say word one while I’m out speaking or hanging out with friends afterward, but then follow me onto an elevator and then, when I’m alone and vulnerable, proposition me — that makes me uncomfortable. That feels creepy. Please don’t do that.”
Wow man, total cold-hearted bitch there! Or maybe the guy was just Ugg City, because apparently no woman could refuse an out-of-the-blue offering of sex from a visually inoffensive and blandly attactive man/clone of Bradd Pitt.
And all of this is because Clinton gave women the right to get their internet licenses. That irresponsible bastard.
I will use my adorable hippo wiles to charm Kirby away from Ami!
Don’t worry ami, I won’t fall for Molly’s adorable hippo wiles…
*sees picture of hippo nomming on turtle*
TAKE ME MOLLY I’M YOURS FOREVER!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DDDDDDDDDD::::::;
>:O
*counters with router cat*
KIRBY YOU HIPPOGAMOUS MALE YOU! >:O
Baby hegehog!
Alright, that does it. Molly has found my weak spot.
*squeeeeeeeeeeees at cute lil baby hedgie*
Well you done done me and you bet I felt it,
I tried to be chill, but yo so cute dat I melted.
I fell right tru the cracks…
And now I cannot get baaack.
MRAL: Let’s ask the feminists here, actually, they’ve been avoiding the issue as feminists are wont to do. Do you guys think that women are entitled to be as rude as they want, and (here’s the kicker) NOT thought of as rude?
No.
But… That’s not what was said. Not all rudeness = misandry. Just as not all rudenes = misogyny.
The major problem most MRAs have is that they see anything which doesn’t go the way they want it to, not as the fact that life isn’t always fair (much less what we want) as a big conspiracy to screw men over. It’s not.
Let’s zoom in:
to disapprove of unpleasantness from a woman is misogyny.
Lets zoom out: To want pleasantness and to disapprove of unpleasantness from a woman is misogyny.
That’s an important pairing. It says that when one wants pleasantness, and doesn’t accept that unpleasantness may be what one gets is misogyny (if one is doing that with women. If one is doing to men, it’s misandrist. If one is doing to minorities it’s racist).
That first half of the equation is not merely important, it’s critical.
>:O Counters w/ proof of her high status (and bounciness xD) and some cuteness
Damn, and I didn’t even get to use my turtle eating mashed potatoes pic…
This capybara is disdainful of such rediculous proceedings.
And my sleep schedule hates you all.
Now I don’t know. This is so confusing. On the one hand, hippo! On the other hand, kitty! On the other hand, hedgie! On the other hand, bunny! On the other hand, turtle! I just can’t make up my mind!
I wanted to see capybara, and all I got was 404. I haz a sad :(
Kirby, let’s all move in to a big house in the country where all three of us can be surrounded by our cute animal pets!
Never mind – there he is. Disdainful indeed!
@Magpie it’s up! My uploading was slow.
Capybara is indeed disdainful…
MRAL: Then she, just like many other bullying women, started calling him a creep and a loser.
No, she didn’t. No one knows who this guy was. Not you, not me, not anyone in this discussion.
She was talking about a type of behavior. Why? Because she had an example of it. Without the examplar, there was nothing to talk about. Since it happened, there was.
She didn’t call him a creep. She said she was creeped out. I have an ex who loves spiders. Let’s them crawl on her. She also like scorpions. Kept one as a pet. That creeped me out. the scorpion was, to me, creepy. But it wasn’t a creep.
She didn’t say he was a loser. She said she didn’t feel threatened, just creeped out. So, since it did cause her a strong emotional reaction (like the woman who didn’t respond the way you wanted her to in the elevator) she talked about it; esp. as what had happened was relevant to the very talk she had given. She didn’t say never hit on women. She didn’t even say, “never hit on them in an elevator.” She said, “look at the totality of the situation before you hit on women.
And you are all afroth because of that.
@Molly Ren that’s what I proposed to start w/! >:O We should just share him :3 (and the aminals :3 )
This place really runs the gamut – from NWO and Ion to cute bunnies and kitties and hippos. With wise and witty people talking and arguing and making friends. It’s great!
You were right, Ami, and I was wrong. *buys huge country house and stocks it with bunnies, kitties, turtles, router cats, and hedgehogs*
And we all lived happily ever after! XD
@Magpie Now don’t you start with that groupthink backpatting! Typical feminists!
Okay, that is enough parody for me. Forever.
I think I’ve posted this before, but oh well. I present to you… the ultimate in red-light, green-light technology. Teleporter cat!
Also, Capybara is also disdainful of polyamoranimalous relationships.
However, being a still image, he doesn’t have much choice.
Pecunium – thanks for making the point about ‘creep’ and ‘creeped out’. ‘creep’ is an unfamiliary word to me, and I have been reading closely to make sure I understand what people mean by it. I think I have got it from the examples people have been giving. I was going to ask the ‘thats not creepy’ guys for examples of ‘creepy’, but I think they’ve gone away.
@Kirby yay! Teleporter cat is awesome. My cats try to do that, but they always mess it up. “If I move really realllyyy slowly, they won’t notice! Oh, dang, they noticed! Let me try again, reallly really slowwwwwly…”
Oh yeah, take that!, tiny hedgehog.
Nobby, that was my Facebook pic for a long time. Great minds, etc. Of course, who doesn’t love a giant rodent? (A: Dumb people.)
Oh my god I reached the end of the thread.
Though by the time I finish typing this it probably won’t be the end of the thread any more.
xD You might either want to ban NWO or me. xD or both! XD
1,300 comments… Alright, I think we all know what must be done. Manboobz’s first 2,000 comment thread! Where’s the thread fodder?
grumble grumble. Bee’s got something better than a tiny hedgehog, apparently, and I can’t see that, either. grumble pout
Well I’m not banning YOU!
And the last time (the only time, I think) I banned NWO, I missed him. He went and commented on another blog, the cheater! And I hadn’t even banned him, really, just put him on moderation.
*huge hippo yawn* Well, I need sleeps. Wake me when we reach 2,000! *trots off for zzzzzzs in a bed of grass*
How can we get to 2000 comments? drink more coffee! write short comments! more cut pics!
Damn, I type too slow. That was for Ami.
*cute
@Molly Ren: Piker!
Oh crud! Let’s try this lil nugget of cuteness again.
I miss my hedgie, though. He died a really gruesome death, but lived a very adorable life.
@Bee: the ears! the ears! I’m so sorry about your hedgie, you must miss him very much.
I do! Well, it’s been a long time, but he was a cute little cranky guy with a funny personality.
Not that anyone asked, but he died after I took him to the vet’s, and the vet let a non-vet (I think he was a student) take care of him. He had a little infection, but he hadn’t eaten or drank much, so the vet student wanted to give him IV fluids to keep him hydrated. He obviously wasn’t used to working with small animals, because he handed the hedgie back to me in a towel, bloated like a water balloon and sopping wet. He died a few seconds later. And then they charged me.
That was so sad! Why’d he have to go that way?
Oh Bee! That’s awful! I don’t know what to say. Hugs for you.
Aw, Bee, that’s terrible! Poor little thing.
awwwwwwwwwww D:
*BIG HUGS TO TEH BEE* D:
*hug hug hug hug hug*
How sad/infuriating. Good exotics vets are notoriously hard to find. I’m on number 4 for my birds.
Aw, thanks, Magpie, David, and Ami! XD
He was a good hedgie.
Ugh, good luck, Fuck MRAs. I hope you find a great one!
@kirbywarp
I think I was like your friend, like, “Huh, that’s true. Me too.” But I’d never really TALKED about this stuff with anyone, male or female, because it was just part of life, like a constant buzzing noise in the background. Maybe you aren’t always consciously hearing it, but you still have to raise your voice and turn up the volume up on your TV.
Bad metaphor? I dunno; it’s a weird thing to explain. I am glad there are guys who are willing to make the effort to listen and try to understand anyway.
Just a little note: Due to a little mixup on my part, I posted a post announcing that the manboobz forum is up. This post was supposed to go up about 10 hours from now. Oops. So I kind of spoiled my big surprise. Since I’ve set up the forum so that I have to approve new members, it sort of doesn’t make sense for it to go up right now, since I am about to hit the sack.
I’ve unpublished the post.
So let’s just keep this between us for now. BIG SEEKRET!
Oh, and Darksidecat and a few others who were wondering: there is a sort of workaround for the gender issue.
I so would not pay if my vet negligently killed my pet. Then again, I have always taken pets to my mom’s vet, a guy with a solid half century of working in a rural farming area (he stopped doing large livestock a few years ago due to his age), and I can’t really imagine him letting something like that happen in his office. And we had a pit bull that liked to try to eat porcupines and had to be put under anesthetic to have quills removed from her throat on several occasions (some dogs can’t seem to get the whole “don’t bite a porcupine” thing and do it more than once, my sister has a lab-rotweiler mix now that is a porcupine biter), as well as a variety of other high risk pet needs. One of the techs cut a dog’s toe while clipping its nails and he told the owners they did not have to pay (after sterilizing and stitching the cut for free), I can’t imagine what sort of jerk kills someones pet by their own negligence and then asks the owner to pay.
My poor little rat died of a severe seizure when he was three and half (that is a senior rat), so I sympathize. I felt so guilty because I could not do anything for him but pet him and watch (he was blind from a very early age, so touching him let him know I was there). My vet told me that it had probably been an aneurism or a previously asymptomatic brain tumor and that he knew I had been taking good care of my rat (I had just been in with him a month earlier about his teeth) and that my only problem with him had been over-spoiling (I got scolded for my rat being too fat, even for his huge size, and was told to make him exercise more and give him less treats). But I felt like I had been neglecting him because I was really sick and had not been giving him as much attention as usual. Granted, this still meant two regular playtimes and feeding him baby cereals and other baby food from a spoon to make sure he ate enough food because of his teeth problems. I had him from the time he was about ten days old (my sister got him from a pet store out of pity, but, as usual for her and pets, I was the one who ended up bottle feeding him from a syringe until way past the time when he should have been weaned, which was probably why he was three times the size of most pet rats) and I was devastated. I ended up having a multi-hour screaming fight with my mother and taking the next three days off from school.
Anyway, it’s times like these that I want to make yet another list. Like, “You might be a misogynist if,” but with things that might not immediately seem obvious.
After all, like many racists and sexists, they think that only conscious bigotry is bigotry.
Great advice, since NEVER in the history of time has anyone ever used a ruse such as pretending to need assistance, let alone feigning a disability, in order to prey on the good-heartedness of others and lure them into a compromising, or even deadly, situation. I’ll bet the folks here would be hard pressed to think of one…JUST ONE…person who did that.
And woe betide the woman who heeds your “common sense” advice, as the Manosphere busies itself ripping her (and, by extension, all women) to shreds for being so utterly stupid to have not known any better.
I think I understand what the MRA trolls are saying when they mean that.
It’s basically a very poorly worded way of saying “You should be careful, but of actual bad guys, you should read our minds and know that we are Nice Guys(TM) and to do otherwise means you believe that all men are rapists.”
It’s no less stupid, but hopefully that’s more clear than their way of saying it.