Two atheists get in an elevator
So here’s a hilarious atheist joke for you all:
Two atheists at a conference get into an elevator at 4 AM. The dude atheist, apropos of nothing, invites the chick atheist to go to his room with him. The chick atheist, who’s never even spoken to the dude before, is creeped out by this. (She says no.) She mentions the incident in a YouTube video. A shitstorm erupts in the atheist-o-sphere because, like, how could she possibly call an atheist dude a creep and aren’t women treated worse in Islamist Theocracies?
Then Richard Dawkins says,
Dear Muslima
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.
Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so . . .
And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
Richard
In a followup comment, Dawkins tops that bit of hilarity with this:
Rebecca’s feeling that the man’s proposition was ‘creepy’ was her own interpretation of his behaviour, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me.
Damn. That joke didn’t turn out to be really very hilarious at all. Maybe I told it wrong?
In any case, as you might already know (or have gathered), this whole thing actually happened over the past weekend. The atheist chick in question is Rebecca Watson, a popular blogger who calls herself Skepchick. The conference in question was the Center for Inquiry’s Student Leadership Conference. The part of Richard Dawkins was played by, well, Richard Dawkins. (You can find both of his comments quoted here.)
The incident has been hashed and rehashed endlessly in the atheist-o-sphere (and even out of it), but I think it deserves a tiny bit more re-rehashing. Mainly because it illustrates that some really creepy, backwards attitudes can lurk deep in the hearts of dudes who think of themselves as enlightened, rational dudes fighting the evils of superstition and, yes, religious misogyny.
The strangest thing about the whole incident is how supremely mild Watson’s comments on the creepy elevator dude were. Here is literally all she said about him, in passing, in her video (transcribed here):
So I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’
Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner.
That’s it. That’s the whole thing. You would think that most guys would be well aware that accosting a woman you’ve never met before in an elevator at 4 AM is, you know, kind of a no-no. But, no, Watson’s comments suddenly became an attack on male sexuality and men in general. One critic put up a video lambasting Watson, ending it with the question:
What effect do you think it has on men to be constantly told how sexist and destructive they are?
Never mind that she didn’t, you know, actually do that at all. Nor did she even remotely suggest, despite Dawkins’ weird screed, that creepy dudes on elevators were somehow equivalent to genital mutilation or the general denial of women’s rights in Islamist theocracies. She merely suggested that guys might want to think twice before hitting on women who are alone with them in an elevator at four in the morning. Pointing out the creepy behavior of one particular dude is not the same as calling all men creepy.
Now, the atheist movement tends to be a bit of a sausagefest, pervaded by some fairly backwards notions about women. (Prominent atheist pontificator Christopher Hitchens, you may recall, seems to sincerely believe that women just aren’t funny. Not that he’s exactly a barrel of monkeys himself.) But some of the most vociferous critics of Watson have been other atheist women – including the one I quoted above.
Watson responded to this in the first of several posts she wrote about the whole weird controversy:
I hear a lot of misogyny from skeptics and atheists, but when ancient anti-woman rhetoric like the above is repeated verbatim by a young woman online, it validates that misogyny in a way that goes above and beyond the validation those men get from one another. It also negatively affects the women who are nervous about being in similar situations. Some of them have been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted, and some just don’t want to be put in that position. And they read these posts and watch these videos and they think, “If something were to happen to me and these women won’t stand up for me, who will?”
In a followup post, she noted:
When I started this site, I didn’t call myself a feminist. I had a hazy idea that feminism was a good thing, but it was something that other people worried about, not me. I was living in a time and culture that had transcended the need for feminism, because in my world we were all rational atheists who had thrown off our religious indoctrination so that I could freely make rape jokes without fear of hurting someone who had been raped.
And then I would make a comment about how there could really be more women in the community, and the responses from my fellow skeptics and atheists ranged from “No, they’re not logical like us,” to “Yes, so we can fuck them!” That seemed weird.
Watson began hearing from other women in the skeptic/atheist community who’d met far too many of that second sort of male atheist.
They told me about how they were hit on constantly and it drove them away. I didn’t fully get it at the time, because I didn’t mind getting hit on. But I acknowledged their right to feel that way and I started suggesting to the men that maybe they relax a little and not try to get in the pants of every woman who walks through the door.
And then, as her blog garnered more attention, she faced a virtual invasion of creepy dudes being creepy:
I’ve had more and more messages from men who tell me what they’d like to do to me, sexually. More and more men touching me without permission at conferences. More and more threats of rape from those who don’t agree with me, even from those who consider themselves skeptics and atheists. More and more people telling me to shut up and go back to talking about Bigfoot and other topics that really matter.
She didn’t shut up.
So here we are today. I am a feminist, because skeptics and atheists made me one. Every time I mention, however delicately, a possible issue of misogyny or objectification in our community, the response I get shows me that the problem is much worse than I thought, and so I grow angrier. I knew that eventually I would reach a sort of feminist singularity where I would explode and in my place would rise some kind of Captain Planet-type superhero but for feminists. I believe that day has nearly arrived.
Go read the rest of her post. Despite the creepy dudes and the misogyny and Richard Fucking Dawkins’ patronizing little screed – which led Watson to a moment of despair much like that of virtually every movie hero(ine) at the end of act two in the story arc – Watson ends it fairly hopeful. It’s kind of inspiring, really.
Posted on July 6, 2011, in creepy, feminism, hypocrisy, misogyny, oppressed men, patriarchy, rape, reactionary bullshit, sexual harassment, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,701 Comments.
My addition to the How Not To Be Creepy instruction manual:
11. In general, unless you are hiring a sex worker or in a milieu expressly dedicated to casual sex (something like the sex club from Eyes Wide Shut), you will probably have to get to know a woman before you have sex with her. This can be as simple as a few sentences back and forth followed by “So…?” *suggestive eyebrows* or it can be multiple dates, depending on what both of you are looking for.
When you are holding this/these conversation(s), TALK TO THE WOMAN LIKE SHE’S A PERSON. Don’t sit there thinking “What can I do to get her to have sex with me?” Listen to her and respond appropriately. Have a genuine interaction with her, even if it is very brief.
(Seriously, every non-creepy proposition I have ever received has followed this rule. Even when they do it makes me a bit uncomfortable, because it’s awkward turning people down, but at least it doesn’t make me feel like an inconvenient obstacle blocking some guy’s access to pussy.)or.
Slave
Besides your mental illness issues and because you are not blood Uncle Victor would have a party with you.
Can you picture that like I can?
@darksidecat that’s why I’m wondering what he means by “harm” xD I suspect he doesn’t mean “no bad exps ever” I think he means “has not been violently raped”
I’d say “give him a blowjob, right then and there,” but I don’t think that would be quite enough to satisfy Slavey.
A permanent position in the guy’s harem, perhaps?
I think the reason NWO gets such a reaction out of us–even out of me, even when I know it’s really no use at all, is that he hits the Emmanuel Goldstein Zone perfectly.
That is:
“Goldstein was delivering his usual venemous attack upon the doctrines of the Party – an attack so exaggerated and perverse that a child should have been able to see through it, and yet just plausible enough to fill one with an alarmed feeling that other people, less level-headed than oneself, might be taken in by it.”
(George Orwell, 1984)
Everyone–shit, even MRAL and Ion–know NWO is wrong, but he’s just sincere enough in his wrongness as to stir this sense of worry, this sense that he shouldn’t go unanswered.
He’s not convincing anyone of anything–he’s not even trying to convince anyone of anything, most of the time–but he’s a great troll in terms of sheer reaction provoked.
NWO doesn’t hit nething w/ me xD I just want him to elaborate on his worldview to put it all out there so I can see it cuz I suspect it would be hilarious xD
@ Holly
This leads me to repeat a question I asked when the possibility of either unmoderating or permanently banning Silly was raised: are the thread derails by trolls a bug or a feature?
Ami – That’s good. I might be losing perspective; sometimes I see what he writes and think “oh god, what if someone, somewhere, actually believes this?”
But even he doesn’t believe most of what he writes, so yeah.
MRAL vs NWO would be something I’d watch xD (i’d be cheering for MRAL, esp after he admitted that upon new information his conclusion about Skepchick has changed, even if it’s still kinda negative, it impressed me a lot :3 So if you’re reading MRAL *thumbs up* )
Actually I wonder what would happen if a troll happened to be on the “side” of something we agree w/ xD
I remember once in my former comics blogging life, 2 of the worse trolls got into it about abortion xD And one of them who was pretty bad happened to be on the side pro-choice and he used the analogy of “if you mix salt and water it is a new substance and cannot be separated and so it’s like a mother and her fetus” and I was like -_-;;; okay shut up.. stop helping
xD
Ami, do you have a better term for it? It’s a silencing tactic that’s meant to threaten and instill fear in an entire population of people. It’s not the same as a bomb, obviously. But it is a form of terrorism.
“the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. ”
Yup. Terrorism.
Anyway, weird views like the MRAs don’t happen in a vacuum. They don’t just wake up one day and say “I’m going to treat women like they exist for my pleasure.”
I would say it’s a perfect storm of seemingly harmless things that add up to that detestable conclusion.
For instance, the geek fallacy that “friends should accept me as I am.” In other words, they would feel ill used if expected to live up to standards of etiquette and grooming. Perhaps wrongly quoting that old story about the man who offers his borrowed fancy coat to be served in his place. “Eat, master, eat!”
That’s how you end up with guys who think that a woman should love a man just for existing, rather than expecting more than basic human decency to get them going. They balk at the truth that “love isn’t enough.”
Johnny Pez – I think the derailing on this blog is what makes it so special. We wouldn’t be a family without elephants and Magyck and all-caps kindergarteners and snowcones and whatnot.
However, I’m not sure if we need trolls–or at least, trolls as consistently hateful and annoying as NWO–to make this happen.
yes, there is no reason to not be worried about being attacked
or raped
or killed.
Yep, no reason to feel fear.
@Johnny Pez yeah… is it rly worth it? xD esp since at this point it’s just a feature for one person’s amusement (me) xD
I was thinking this while bike riding today… if every thread just turns into the NWO goes after the rodeo cat for 500 comments show… is that rly fair to every other person here? xD
I find him amusing. Occasionally.
@Fuck MRAs I dunno… but terrorism is a v strong word for many ppl… :\ I don’t disagree that it’s an attempt to frighten/upset/terrorize ppl into backing off… having had first hand exp w/ it.. (I have to say having vegetarians threaten to murder and rape me b/c they think I’m supporting the eating of animals is rather ironic)
it’s def harassment… hrm.. are there any in between words? o_O
Ami, you are his nemesis, but even if you weren’t here, he would still show up. And as Holly notes, he has an uncanny ability to provoke responses. He’s a very good troll.
Okay then maybe David should re-open this xD
Magyc card derail:
Ami, there’s one obvious Man Boobz commenter missing from your deck of cards. Can you guess who it is?
XD
I’m not sure about the in-between words. I just know that there is a purpose behind what men like that do, and that it’s working.
I did one of MRAL tho.. and he’s by far the most important Man Boobz commenter… who else could I have missed? xD
and I know I still have to do Nobby and Pecunium… xD Nobinayamu doesn’t have one yet… tho I dunno if she wants one :| Sarahejones doesn’t have one… tons of MRAs still dun have one :\ I want to make one of Pixie… and I need to redo Kirby… Zombie needs his own card… F MRAs might be a hard one to make w/o the swear word in the name :| (i’m trying to keep it clean.. that’s making it hard to put in shit test xD)
@Kristinmh
but at least it doesn’t make me feel like an inconvenient obstacle blocking some guy’s access to pussy.)or.
For some reason, I initially read this as “access to the pussy jar.” I was thinking, “Ooo, The Pussy Jar would be a good idea for one of Ami’s cards.” ;)
Ahem.
@Johnny Pez
Ami, there’s one obvious Man Boobz commenter missing from your deck of cards. Can you guess who it is?
I think I know who you are talking about. XD
oh and you! I mentioned you BEFORE but suddenly you slipped my mind :(
i’m sry sry sry! I have an idea for you alrdy :3
Cap’n B, you’re reading my mind. XD
Ami, I know I’m not a popular poster here so I wasn’t expecting to have a card made for me. If you do want to make one, you definitely have my permission to remove the F word or change it however you see fit.
There really ought to be a MONEY card.
Do you have any other names you are known by (that you do not mind being associated w/)? :3
Ayla… There is AT LEAST one other commenter named Ayla on feminist blogs who isn’t me, but has been confused with me before, which is partly why I didn’t use it when I picked a name here.
I don’t get any other hits for that name here though, so maybe I should switch.
Hmm…
Johnny, how broadly should we hint at this? XD
Cap’n B, I’m sure it’ll come to her. After all, it’s someone she knows quite well. XD
XD
Ami, I think there’s someone else on here that posts a lot that you’re not thinking of. Someone very close to you… XD
As to the trolls being a bug or a feature, I think playing with trolls is half the fun, I just wish we got more trolls *besides* Slavey. He’s persistent, but he’s also very one note.
I also wanna see what we can do when we actually stay on topic. Hopefully the forum will make that possible?
Well now this is an interesting comic
We’ve seen briefly what happens, lots of interesting discussion happens :3
You know I got you 2 meant (now you 3) way before when Johnny first mentioned it xD
*what you 2 meant
XD
Speaking of xkcd, this one was apparently the comic that helped start the chain of events that led to the Schrodinger’s Rapist essay, and very pertinent to the current discussion as well, in that this is probably how the people who are anti-Rebecca view themselves:
http://xkcd.com/642/
Ah, well, we can’t put anything past you, Ami. XD
After reading this thread, a few points about public behaviors, politeness, courtesy, etc.
The small town I grew up in, anybody who was in public greeted everybody else on the street (granted, there might only be one or two other people). EVERYBODY no matter what age disparity or gender difference (there were degrees of polite greeting–from a smile and nod, to a “hello,” to stopping and talking a few moments–and even more). But the courtesy was to everyone.
Big cities–people don’t do that (no time, too many people–all jammed together).
Men who complain that women snoot them for public gestures of courtesy (won’t reply to greetings, are the “omg I hate men who open doors” strawfeminist, etc.) Iand I’m not even talking actual catcalls and propositions here, just what I was raised to call polite in a small town where most people knew everybody (or the even smaller town my parents were born in where you not knly knew everybody, you were related to most of the poeple who had lived there more than one generation in some way).
The question I have for them, given what I’ve observed, is how widely that public courtesy is extended to people who are not in the category of “perceived to be young and attractive female whom I might get to ask out”: i.e. other men, and women who are a decade or more older, up to the women who might be your grandmother! Because if you’re only being courteous to the small category of “acceptable for dating purposes and maybe sex” females, then you’re not being courteous. You’re not being polite. You’re being self interested .
If you (as I have seen) dash ahead in a most notable way to open the postoffice door for a sweet twenty-something and then let it slam shut in the face of the 70 something women (in one case my mother), then you ain’t no way polite, courteous, or even a decent human being.
“Because if you’re only being courteous to the small category of “acceptable for dating purposes and maybe sex” females, then you’re not being courteous. You’re not being polite. You’re being self interested .”
THIS! A thousand times this!
I actually think I mostly DO follow the “advice” NWO gave about responding to random men who approach me. I’m pretty confidant, haven’t experienced any of the serious sexual harassment or assault of the type a lot of people here talk about, and seem to somehow magically have some sort of “go away” vibes that mean people don’t fuck with me. But even that has limits. I’m still aware that I am smaller and weaker than the average man and I’m at a disadvantage against even a similar-sized person who happens to have a weapon or a group of people. So I still take reasonable precautions to protect my safety. Acting “aloof” isn’t one of them though – last I checked nobody avoided a mugging by aloofness.
Should a woman, who has never been harmed by a man feel afraid or creeped out if a man approaches her, no matter the circumstances?
I’m gonna respond to your stupid-ass question with a story.
I’ve never been assaulted on the street. I’ve never been the victim of a theft or mugging (yet! Knock on wood). But that doesn’t mean I can’t tell when it’s a real risk.
One time in middle school, a friend of mine and I were waiting for the train (major metropolitan area light rail). We were two nerdy-looking kids, sitting alone on the bench, talking about ancient Rome. Suddenly, a group of five or six girls, probably about our age, came by and stood around us in a semicircle, talking loudly and obtrusively. Then one of them took out a donut, took a bite, and then ripped off a piece and threw it at us. She took another bite, ripped off another piece, and threw it at us.
I got mad. I bent down, picked up one of the pieces, and threw it back at her. She shouted at me. I stood up and was head and shoulders above these girls. It was an intense moment, watching her calculation of the situation change. She moved to shove me. I almost shoved her, but my friend held me back.
A guy, shorter than me but stockier, wandered up. He was clearly part of the group.
“Didja touch her?” he asked.
“No,” I said.
“Good,” he said. “I woulda fuckin killed you if you touched her.”
“Well, that’s why I didn’t touch her,” I said, ever the master of witty repartee.
That seemed to satisfy him, and we all got on the train together. They sung deliberately obscene songs and laughed raucously, but the real threat was over.
The thing about that story? The whole time, I was terrified. I knew some shit was going down. Looking back, they were probably trying to pick a fight in a very specific way: have the girls act aggressive but non-violent, goad me into making the first move, and then feel justified when the guy in question responded violently. At the time, though, I had no idea what was going on. But it was clear to me that *some shit was going down,* that these people had designs on me not in my best interest.
So no, NWOsilly. You can’t ask that question with “no matter the circumstances.” It’s all about the circumstances. In that situation, it was a gang of mostly women. In another, it could have been mostly guys. But when someone’s talking about being creeped out, they’re not usually talking about particular people at all. They’re not talking about something that can be captured by a photograph, or a four-word sentence. They’re talking about a situational awareness, and that awareness deserves to be respected.
Does someone’s maleness figure into that awareness? Maybe. Who the hell knows? But this idea, that somehow prior victimization is necessary in order to feel fear, and that the sensation of creepiness can be divorced from context, are both stupid. They don’t hold true in my own life.
I wish I could answer your question with a clear “no.” But really, it’s too incoherent to deserve such an answer. Your question ignores what discomfort is about.
I know! I know who doesn’t have a card!
Hey, Captain Bathrobe, get out of Johnny Pez’ brain, please. A woman needs her privacy!
Plymouth: It is interesting to bring up aloofness, because if that’s what the privileged males are talking about, then they seem to be conflating two of their silliest complaints:
1. The whole Schrodinger’s Rapist thing, which I’ve probably singlehandedly worn out the name of in this thread alone
and
2. Annoyance at a woman who is unreceptive to male attention, even well intentioned
And that, I believe, is the rub of it all. They are upset that any given attractive woman could be unreceptive to their attention.
So there you have it, privilege deniers who are still tuned in: If you are even the least bit put out that a woman is not receptive to your attention, that alone makes it not well intentioned.
Hey, Captain Bathrobe, get out of Johnny Pez’ brain, please. A woman needs her privacy!
Sounds more like he’s in your brain, Bee. :)
“And that, I believe, is the rub of it all. They are upset that any given attractive woman could be unreceptive to their attention.”
Well, and also not attractive. That might be even worse, ’cause she should be grateful, the sow.
Captain Bathrobe, I’ve taken up residency here in the Pez brain. It’s made out of candy, and there are basenjis! It’s amazing!
I’m never gonna leave. You can’t make meeeeeee!
Yeah, that’s covered under the “average women are just as bitchy as the good looking ones we want” argument in their official playbook (the “Shaming Tactics” thingy.)
*gets a hose* Hold still Pez
I’ve actually been approached by a guy about my netbook xD I THINK he was hitting on me, but who knows xD
I was sitting at a Starbucks drinking coffee, I noticed he kept glancing at me… then he came up to me and started to chat me up and said he’s never seen a “laptop that small” (it’s a netbook and an older one I got on discount xD) and that what kind is it, etc etc.. and I said that I actually had no idea (which is honest, I didn’t buy the comp, I bought it off a friend) and then he stared at me, and I looked confused… and then he left o_O
I didn’t think he was creepy… I was just confused xD I literally had no idea what to say next xD
Another time (in my big XXL male hoodie that everybody seems to like xD ) a guy came up to me at night and said I’m rly beautiful and wants to get to know me better and was super hitting on me and I was about to walk away (he was a geeky looking Asian guy) but I thought “you know, I think ppl this brave should be given a chance”… so I gave him my email addy :3 Apparently my voice when giving him my email addy screwed things up b/c then he emailed me “are you a dude?” xD So I guess maybe I’m not helping ppl xD
“DON’T HIT ON HOT GIRLS THEY MAY END UP BEING TRANS WOMEN!” xD
but yeah, it has a lot to do w/ all sorts of factors, incl where I am, what I’m doing and how I feel xD sometimes when I’m out grocery shopping… I just.. *gasp* want to shop! xD so I will just say “sorry” and go back to shopping xD
Geez…I dunno why NWO finds it so hard to understand that being approached by a stranger in a dark parking lot is intimidating. Personally, I don’t care if it’s a man or a woman doing the approaching, in situations like that I am pretty uncomfortable, unless the person in question is a child or something. But even so…what if the child is….a vampire? =O
The bottom line is, we aren’t mind-readers. You can’t automatically know if someone is coming up to you to ask for directions or steal your wallet. Hope for the best, but wanting to be prepared for the worst is not a bad thing.
As for being approached by dirty or foul-smelling people: sure, maybe the person just got off from working at a rough job. But maybe they’re intoxicated, and therefore, potentially adding to the unpredictability factor. It’s not unfair if someone feels a little creeped out in these scenarios, even if/when they do end innocuously.
But even so…what if the child is….a vampire?
Vampires I can deal with. I just don’t want to see those two little girls from The Shining.
Paprika: did you read that xkcd comic I linked a few posts back? The reason some guys (not MRA trolls like we have here, but more well meaning ones who honestly don’t understand) don’t understand it is because they identify with the comic rather than thinking that a woman has every right to not want to be bothered randomly, even if well intentioned.
Speedlines:
Gah, those two little kids were creepy! The scariest part of the movie, imo.
Caseymordred:
I’ve seen that one before. It’s funny in a sad way. We’re not all sitting around here discussing how men should never approach women ever, just that men shouldn’t approach women and expect a response that is perfectly tailored to their intentions.
We’re not all sitting around here discussing how men should never approach women ever,
I am.
So… which kind of shotgun should I use when a man approaches me? xD or is a chaingun better? o_O How about the BFG? has nebody had any experience w/ that?
Ami
I’m to bed, leaving you with a big hug. There will always be assholes in life your better them them.
I cannot get past the comment on page three or so that said she was acting like a 5 dollar whore by being in the elevator at 4 am. There is no excusing this kind of justification. How is this possible?
I mean better them then you… David must get an edit bar.
I know what you meant Kave :) *hugs* ty :3
Erl137’s story reminds me of one of my own.
I went to grad school in a fairly walkable town, and went on foot or by bike to campus fairly often. On one particular day, I was walking while listening to podcasts and I passed through the middle of a group of four girls who were apparently from the local high school. I was walking much faster than them and consequently pulled ahead by perhaps a quarter to a half of a block.
A little while later, I felt a certain feeling of proximity behind me and perhaps heard a stifled giggle over the sound of my podcast, so I looked back to find that one of the girls was directly behind me and giggling, and the other three were some distance back, also giggling. The girl that was directly behind me ran back to the group, and they commenced to further giggling. I was a bit unnerved, but I looked at them quizzically and continued walking.
Continue on another half block, and I feel that sense of presence behind me — this time I did a snap turn to walking backwards aaaand… same thing again, one of the girls is right behind me looking like she just ate the canary. This time I say “What the hell do you think you’re doing?” at which point there was much insulted dignity and jeez-you’re-weird-I-weren’t-doing-nothing-wuz-I? from them but they surely did stop following me.
It probably would have been different had it been four high school boys or if these particular girls had a more distinctly aggressive demeanor, but the basic pattern of evaluation and response (wherein transgressive options are most surely on the table) is basically similar. I’ve been harassed/annoyed by both men and women — certain forms of annoyance, such as the aforementioned real-time book report maneuver, are essentially gender-neutral — and men and women viewed in the totality of the circumstances have both given me cause to be concerned for my personal safety.
It’s not, in less wordy words, an engine meant to solely deliver cruel oppression to innocent men. I am aloof and rude to a wide variety of people.
“and I know I still have to do Nobby and Pecunium”
Wait, wait, I get two cards? I should be annoying more often!
Anyway, I’m sorta regretting saying we should let NWO back in. I mean, did his blather really add anything to the discussion? A few pages, perhaps, and a really revealing comment from unreal man, but other then that all I saw was crazy talk and dishonest arguments.
Oh, also @Ami, I forgot to mention this last night, but when I play magic my favorite color, by far, is blue. Did you pick up on that, or just a hilarious coincidence?
hilarious coincidence xD
Sigh, I need to adapt my writing style to the post comment medium. I think essays do not quite work.
As far as what gun for men approaching women, aside from the fact that of course they should be locked away in dungeons beforehand that the question might never come up, I kind of vaguely have an eye on the Ruger Blackhawk. Completely impractical but awesome.
What about recipes? My adopted home state of Colorado seems to have a candidate, if it can be successfully adapted from the cow…
*gives firebee hugs*
did you see my card of you? :3
I have a card??
Wait, is it seriously getting close to my bed time and there’s no giant discussion to keep me up? Quick, where are the trolls?
And not NWO, I’ve taken to skipping his posts unless they’re completely necessary to get the context of other people’s comments.