Two atheists get in an elevator
So here’s a hilarious atheist joke for you all:
Two atheists at a conference get into an elevator at 4 AM. The dude atheist, apropos of nothing, invites the chick atheist to go to his room with him. The chick atheist, who’s never even spoken to the dude before, is creeped out by this. (She says no.) She mentions the incident in a YouTube video. A shitstorm erupts in the atheist-o-sphere because, like, how could she possibly call an atheist dude a creep and aren’t women treated worse in Islamist Theocracies?
Then Richard Dawkins says,
Dear Muslima
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.
Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so . . .
And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
Richard
In a followup comment, Dawkins tops that bit of hilarity with this:
Rebecca’s feeling that the man’s proposition was ‘creepy’ was her own interpretation of his behaviour, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me.
Damn. That joke didn’t turn out to be really very hilarious at all. Maybe I told it wrong?
In any case, as you might already know (or have gathered), this whole thing actually happened over the past weekend. The atheist chick in question is Rebecca Watson, a popular blogger who calls herself Skepchick. The conference in question was the Center for Inquiry’s Student Leadership Conference. The part of Richard Dawkins was played by, well, Richard Dawkins. (You can find both of his comments quoted here.)
The incident has been hashed and rehashed endlessly in the atheist-o-sphere (and even out of it), but I think it deserves a tiny bit more re-rehashing. Mainly because it illustrates that some really creepy, backwards attitudes can lurk deep in the hearts of dudes who think of themselves as enlightened, rational dudes fighting the evils of superstition and, yes, religious misogyny.
The strangest thing about the whole incident is how supremely mild Watson’s comments on the creepy elevator dude were. Here is literally all she said about him, in passing, in her video (transcribed here):
So I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’
Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner.
That’s it. That’s the whole thing. You would think that most guys would be well aware that accosting a woman you’ve never met before in an elevator at 4 AM is, you know, kind of a no-no. But, no, Watson’s comments suddenly became an attack on male sexuality and men in general. One critic put up a video lambasting Watson, ending it with the question:
What effect do you think it has on men to be constantly told how sexist and destructive they are?
Never mind that she didn’t, you know, actually do that at all. Nor did she even remotely suggest, despite Dawkins’ weird screed, that creepy dudes on elevators were somehow equivalent to genital mutilation or the general denial of women’s rights in Islamist theocracies. She merely suggested that guys might want to think twice before hitting on women who are alone with them in an elevator at four in the morning. Pointing out the creepy behavior of one particular dude is not the same as calling all men creepy.
Now, the atheist movement tends to be a bit of a sausagefest, pervaded by some fairly backwards notions about women. (Prominent atheist pontificator Christopher Hitchens, you may recall, seems to sincerely believe that women just aren’t funny. Not that he’s exactly a barrel of monkeys himself.) But some of the most vociferous critics of Watson have been other atheist women – including the one I quoted above.
Watson responded to this in the first of several posts she wrote about the whole weird controversy:
I hear a lot of misogyny from skeptics and atheists, but when ancient anti-woman rhetoric like the above is repeated verbatim by a young woman online, it validates that misogyny in a way that goes above and beyond the validation those men get from one another. It also negatively affects the women who are nervous about being in similar situations. Some of them have been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted, and some just don’t want to be put in that position. And they read these posts and watch these videos and they think, “If something were to happen to me and these women won’t stand up for me, who will?”
In a followup post, she noted:
When I started this site, I didn’t call myself a feminist. I had a hazy idea that feminism was a good thing, but it was something that other people worried about, not me. I was living in a time and culture that had transcended the need for feminism, because in my world we were all rational atheists who had thrown off our religious indoctrination so that I could freely make rape jokes without fear of hurting someone who had been raped.
And then I would make a comment about how there could really be more women in the community, and the responses from my fellow skeptics and atheists ranged from “No, they’re not logical like us,” to “Yes, so we can fuck them!” That seemed weird.
Watson began hearing from other women in the skeptic/atheist community who’d met far too many of that second sort of male atheist.
They told me about how they were hit on constantly and it drove them away. I didn’t fully get it at the time, because I didn’t mind getting hit on. But I acknowledged their right to feel that way and I started suggesting to the men that maybe they relax a little and not try to get in the pants of every woman who walks through the door.
And then, as her blog garnered more attention, she faced a virtual invasion of creepy dudes being creepy:
I’ve had more and more messages from men who tell me what they’d like to do to me, sexually. More and more men touching me without permission at conferences. More and more threats of rape from those who don’t agree with me, even from those who consider themselves skeptics and atheists. More and more people telling me to shut up and go back to talking about Bigfoot and other topics that really matter.
She didn’t shut up.
So here we are today. I am a feminist, because skeptics and atheists made me one. Every time I mention, however delicately, a possible issue of misogyny or objectification in our community, the response I get shows me that the problem is much worse than I thought, and so I grow angrier. I knew that eventually I would reach a sort of feminist singularity where I would explode and in my place would rise some kind of Captain Planet-type superhero but for feminists. I believe that day has nearly arrived.
Go read the rest of her post. Despite the creepy dudes and the misogyny and Richard Fucking Dawkins’ patronizing little screed – which led Watson to a moment of despair much like that of virtually every movie hero(ine) at the end of act two in the story arc – Watson ends it fairly hopeful. It’s kind of inspiring, really.
Posted on July 6, 2011, in creepy, feminism, hypocrisy, misogyny, oppressed men, patriarchy, rape, reactionary bullshit, sexual harassment, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,701 Comments.
I’m guessing the context is pretty self evident.
Nope. Wouldn’t care.
All women should wish to avoid making men uncomfortable.
isn’t that what you were just saying above? o_O did i call you a misandrist? xD
and that’s… mordred right? the guy who everybody was thinking is a poe troll? xD
Wow Spearhafoc, being such a stickler on grammar sure doesn’t transcend in anyway to telling the truth.
Context is not important.
I haven’t followed the discussion closely but nobody can deny that there was some serious misandry in several comments here and they were not called out by anyone other than MRAs.
If anything, that confirms the need for MRA because feminism is clearly insufficient for gender issues.
I thought some of Mordred’s comments were pretty misandric, but I was asleep at the time and by the time I woke up the conversation had moved in.
So, if it’s misandry, it should be misogyny when regendered, right?
All women should wish to avoid making men uncomfortable. Therefore, no women should do what elevator girl did.
I agree. Women should avoid taking actions that make men uncomfortable, unless there is a compelling other reason to do these things. (“I want to get laid and think it works like this” is not compelling.)
“Because just because you don’t believe in God doesn’t mean that you don’t think that you’re entitlted to man’s time, attention, and bodies.”
I’m NOT entitled to a man’s time, attention, or body.
“I would not be because I would be too busy laughing at her but that is my reaction and I am not Ms Watson.”
Laughing who does something awkward is impolite (and sometimes dangerous), but does not indicate hatred of their gender.
What the fuck is it with women who think men automatically owe them every courtesy in every possible situation? What a bunch of whiny, entitled babies.
THOSE PARTICULAR women who think they’re entitled to men’s attention are whiny and entitled. However, not all women think this.
The poor dear, her life must be fucking ruined. How dare he talk about her at all on his own blog, the nerve.
If a woman had skeeved on a man like this, I would defend his right to talk about it.
So yeah. It’s not coming off all that misogynistic regendered.
@Ami Angelwings
If you’re going to claim intelligence, please act it. You damn well I said that as a regendered version of what was said here in the comment section.
You would have no trouble leaping all over these type of comments had they been directed at women by MRAs. You also have no problem with endorsing or remaining silent about these comment directed at men. You’re a hypocrite.
Okay so the context in this case would be that a man was approached at 4am after giving a speech about sexual harassment w/ men in an elevator by a woman who he believed had heard the speech, she asks him to have sex, he says no… then he mentions briefly in his vlog that this is a creepy thing and women shouldn’t do that in that context. right? :]
and then he gets jumped on by ppl about how he’s wrong to say that and defending her…
and then in context, an argument breaks out and that stuff comes out…?
(cuz again, you are taking different lines from different ppl xD at least David attributes to who said what and links to the context)
I’d be fine w/ it. In fact I’d understand it. xD In the same way I understand it here. (tho I don’t agree w/ Mordred.. I think his rhetoric is v simplistic -_-)
do you believe that I should act differently? o_O
you tell ME what I think? :D
Also I was wondering, do you think the women here are LYING to you about what they think or are just naive and dunno what they think as well as you do :] Cuz you seem to know what we believe, but I’m wondering if it’s cuz you think we’re NAIVE and don’t realize what we’re thinking, or we do and we’re lying to you :3
Nobody would care!
So here’s my regender:
Are you saying that if a woman hits on a man in a way he finds threatening and unwelcome, he shouldn’t talk about it?
Or that there is no way a woman could ever hit on a man in a threatening or unwelcome way?
And.. let the NWO attacking the Rodeo cat begin! xD (so basically this is ultimately about me xD )
what do you believe I think about this situation? o: you seem to not believe a thing I’ve said here…
so you tell me! xD
Holly’s breakdown works rly great too xD Even out of context.. yeah xD THOSE PARTICULAR WOMEN? yeah xD
So wait… let’s avoid this tail chasing.. NWO, what do YOU believe? :] What do YOU think about this situation? :] (let’s start w/ that)
This is NWO’s whole thing about not revealing what he believes as usual, and just needing, desperately, to prove to the world the evil he knows lurks in the heart of Ami, isn’t it? xD
So does NWO just think I don’t REALIZE I hate men, or I just won’t admit I do.. and why am I lying if I do? o_O
Ami, yeah, that would be the whole “If you answer one way, you’re admitting I’m right and I win but if you answer another way it means you’re lying and I’m right and I win” routine. Most people who use this line of argument actually think it means they’re a superior intellect. Most people who have an IQ above that of a room-temperature avocado realize it’s just a fancier way of saying “I know YOU are, but what am I?”.
you know NWO, somebody once threatened to rape you on this blog, and I defended you just as harsh as I would elsewhere, didn’t back off even when they tried to justify it, and told them that you shouldn’t threaten or even joke about raping or wanting somebody raped. xD
That’s the big misandrist ol me!
(even on this thread, I’ve been stating my views about how I think it’s overblown both from ppl who said she’s basically accusing a guy of rape (nobody called that out o_O) or that feminism wants the guy accused of rape (again no call out.. I think the whole “tacit consent!” in a busy comment thread can be rly problematic, I’m not saying it SHOULD be or that b/c no MRA said nething about it therefore it means they believe it xD ) and ppl who are comparing it to sexual assault or etc…
But then this isn’t rly about me xD It’s about the me that NWO knows is there and needs to reveal to the world xD
Oh great sage Ami.
Ummm, my question wasn’t answered.
The comments from this post that I regendered would cause you to jump all over an MRA who said them about women. Do you really want me to copy your comments from previous posts about virtually identical comments.
I’d like to know why, in the spirit of equality which feminism is all about, you didn’t jump all over those nasty comments.
Surely you can’t expect me to answer you questions while you refuse to answer mine.
I’d really like to hear your explaination of why you didn’t say anything about those nasty comments.
Oh, and of course I’d like all of you opinions as well. Since none of you so much as peeped a single sylable against those nasty comments. It’s almost like a case of accepting misandry as a natural part of life.
Please illuminate me, or mock me, or just go off about snowcones or something equally irrelevant.
I think that’s always the funniest thing to me xD it wasn’t just that I defended an MRA, it was I defended NWO, the guy who HATES me, and I’m the ONLY one who did even in the face of the fact nobody agreed w/ me xD
Also me and Kirby stood up for him when Pecunium wrote that v violent thing about him… xD
But yeah I’m evil and vile and stompy! XD
ohh ohh do I get to be #1000?? Do I do I?
The comments from this post that I regendered would cause you to jump all over an MRA who said them about women.
I JUST ANSWERED xD
NWO, I answered your question in detail above, addressing each of the questions and explaining why, in regendered form, they were not misogynistic.
Scroll up a bit.
Plymouth gets comment #1000! The crowd goes wild!
Come on people, I can’t do this all by myself. Make some noise. Something.
I’d really like to hear your explaination of why you didn’t say anything about those nasty comments.
If they had been regendered, would you have spoken up against them? o_O
I’m confused whether you think i SHOULD or shouldn’t (like which way do you want me to go? o_O )
So… NWO believes.. what… about this? o_O And does he believe that if an MRA said those comments they would be wrong and he’d be speaking up against them? He said if an MRA said those, ACCORDING TO HIM, it’d be Manboobz material and be there… but I haven’t seen him call out any Manboobz material… by his logic it means that he’s fine w/ the comments AND ALSO fine w/ the regendered of them xD
@Holly and I agreed w/ you xD But NWO doesn’t care about you (or honestly what I say) he cares about revealing how evil I am to the world and “defeating” me.. xD I’m Moby Dick and he’s Captain Ahab xD
Weirdly (because I don’t get hit on often) I was once hit on by a woman who made me very uncomfortable. Despite being told repeatedly that I wasn’t interested, she insisted I go home with her. In the end I ran away (seriously *ran*) – and she actually chased me down a busy street yelling that I was selfish.
It was an awkward situation. But the thing is, at no point was I scared that she was genuinely going to hurt me. Even though I’m not a tough guy, it never crossed my mind that I was in physical danger. She was drunk, and very unreasonable, but apart from the awkwardness it wasn’t that big a deal.
And that – my dear NWO and any other MRAs who may be reading – is male privilege. The chance to experience something like that and be confident that however weird it gets, you’re not going to get raped.
(And yes, I know women *can* be physically dangerous, and that men *can* get raped by women. But what I’m saying is that it’s so unlikely that even when being chased down a road I could find it kind of funny rather than frightening.)
Graham – There’s a secondary and very relevant bit of male privilege in your story.
You’re saying the woman made you “uncomfortable”, that she was “very unreasonable” and that you literally ran away from her.
Dollars to donuts you aren’t going to be beset upon by women saying you were the jerk in this situation and you should have given her a chance.
And to clarify for the slower members of her audience–Graham, she was the jerk in this situation and you had every right to feel uncomfortable, every right to get yourself out of that situation by whatever means necessary, and every right to talk about it.
You’re a jerk Graham! Why didn’t you give her a chance!? She was prolly rly nervous, or.. at the very least she meant well! >:O
also *hugs* :]
Er… “our” audience.
Is NWO going off trolling for interactions w/ Ami and other ppl that he believes proves what a terrible misandrist I am or something? xD
Hopefully these will be more than one line things and he’ll provided links to the whole thread too xD
I rly AM his white whale xD
Jeez, Graham, don’t be a jerk! You should have given her a chance!
(Oh, wait, I’m not a woman. Never mind.)
Wow. I really missed out on this thread…over a thousand comments and counting.
This illustrates why Manboobz needs a forum.
@Papr1ka and it’s gonna keep going as long as NWO hasn’t “beat” me xD so I suspect we’ll be close to 2000 soon at this rate xD
it’s not even ABOUT this issue neways xD (which I think has been mostly settled now :] at least since most of the hyperbole and misinformation is done :] )
You’re a jerk Graham! Why didn’t you give her a chance!? She was prolly rly nervous, or.. at the very least she meant well! >:O
Yeah, she was probably just social awkward and desperate. Cut the girl some slack, why don’t you? If she’d looked like Brad Pitt, you’d have been all over her, right?
Holly Pervocracy, your explanations are hollow.
If a man trys to tell a woman how to act you will be the first in line to scream about owning a woman. It’s not like I haven’t heard your screed before. You’ve scream misogynist at comments that are literally carbon copies of this. You’re telling me if I had made those same comments you would have defended my right to make them. Even you can’t belive that, but here you are defending them because a woman said them. Or someone from you holy faction.
Ami Angelwings, you would call out everyone of those comments/have called out comments that are pratically identical as putrid hate. Not this time, why? Because the same as Holly, they were made by a woman, or someone from your faction.
You reserve the right to dictate a mans actions so that no woman will ever feel any discomfort ever. Yet no man may dictate a womans action lest he be trying to own her sexuality. Which means any dissagreement is unacceptable if it causes discomfort. Are you sure women aren’t perfect? I mean if you want the right to never feel discomfort and always be considered right?
I think I pointed this out yesterday, but what’s with the Brad Pitt stuff xD Like… they use Megan Fox not Cindy Crawford.. so why are we still using an actor from the 90s as the epitome of male hotness in 2011? XD
MRAL: “Are women allowed to be rude”?
Allowed by whom?
Define “rude” first.
When I moved to Texas, I was considered a rude horribly Yankee though at home in Idaho or Washington I’m considered fairly shy and nice. I didn’t change; the definitions of rude and politce changed on me. And that’s nothng compared to how the faculty who are from New York or New Jersey aer seen by the native Texans!
Pecunium: I know the history and meanings of “politically correct”–my point is a whole shitload of people who use it don’t, and use it simply to shut down people, becuse it is widely perceived as derogatory because of Rush and CO–and that’s how MRAL used it, while complaining about “USian” being…derogatory!
I’m now asking him to define rude–and I’m pretty sure based on his earlier posts that I think women are justified in being what he calls rude to him.
You’re telling me if I had made those same comments you would have defended my right to make them.
Yes. But you don’t make those same comments. You make…
Well, honestly, you make comments indicating delusions about what feminists think. You could run an entire Bizzaro Feminist Movement with the things you insist feminists believe–no matter that you’ve never heard a feminist say them.
(I think you’re also really bad at reading, and don’t understand the difference between moderate disapproval of particular behaviors and total disapproval of all behaviors.)
Graham is objecting to a woman’s actions. We’re not jumping all over him. She was inappropriate and he’s in the right.
Thing is, I was attracted to her – (well, before it got really weird) – and the only reason I refused to go home with her was that she had a boyfriend. Because I was young and my ethics were strong enough that that mattered.
But yes, Holly, you’re right. If anything all this story will lead to is a bunch of MRAs chanting “SEE? All wimmin are teh rapists!!”
@Holly Pervocracy
Well am I making a Bizzaro Feminist Movement comment now. Your still just making excuses. I could go back and get those comments and their authors so that you can chastise them for their poor behavior.
A sign of good faith about feminist inclusive equality would go along way, lest I feel uncomfortable.
Hey, the other day on my bike someone cut me off! I was going straight and they made a right turn in front of me and cut me off! I don’t even know whether they were male or female – they were in a car, they went by fast, I didn’t see. An ex-roommate of mine had this happen to him and the results were much worse – he ended up with a shattered jaw and several missing teeth. And you know what, I went of facebook and complained for a few seconds about how a lot of drivers can be idiots and I wish they’d watch where they’re going. Does that mean I think every driver should have 100% perfect awareness and not be allowed on the road unless they pass a test that says they do? Do I think I have a right to entirely car-free roads? No! It just means I was kinda cranky about almost being injured and I’d like it if people paid a little more attention.
Also, I am looking forward to having that bike overpass finished so I can get across the freeway without having to sit at that particular light :) But there will be others…
Good job Plymouth. Mockery and dismissal. An excellent tactic.
Hi everyone.
Wow… this thread just got epic… What is NWO going off about now? I’ve tried to read through some of the new comments and I still don’t get it… It seems we’re talking about how, fundamentally, if Watson’s comments were regendered, suddenly the entire feminist movement would be up in arms about how misandrist [he] was? Is that what’s happening?
It really sucks catching the tail end of these conversations… :P
NWO, everyone who comments here is well aware of your inability to engage in intelligent and honest discussion. Mockery and dismissal is frankly more than you deserve, and you should be grateful you get even that.
Good job NWOslave. Obliviousness and missing the point. An excellent tactic.
Who am I mocking? That was a true story. Am I mocking myself for not wanting to get my jaw shattered? Am I mocking my ex-roommate for getting his shattered? Am I mocking drivers for sometimes being unaware? I’m confused.
@Plymouth:
You’re making a decent analogy, and NWO thinks you are mocking him because he doesn’t actually read people’s comments, just skims them for key words and structures. Apparently.
Oh Plymouth. How naive you are. Clearly by voicing your irritation at bad drivers, you are expressing your wish to thoroughly control all others who access the road and dictate their every action. Obviously a person cannot vent reasonably about something annoying that happened to them ever. Pffffft.
/end sarcasm.
Seriously though, that sucks. I’m sorry that happened to you. On the 4th while driving home from a cookout, my fiance and I saw people tailgating the freakin’ crap out of an ambulance! People can be such assholes on the road =/
@Graham,
Wow, so she had a boyfriend and yet you were supposedly the selfish one for not sleeping with her? That’s messed up.
Maybe you should have been more frightened. That’s bunny-boiling behavior right there.
…which, I believe, is the female analog to being called a creep.
It was supposed to be an analogy. Oblivious drivers make me uncomfortable because they threaten my safety and that of my friends. When this happens I complain about it. I would like the situation to improve but I don’t expect it to ever be perfect.
Papr1ka – People drive like assholes around ambulances. (Former EMT.) We would joke about the siren switch being the “dumbass button.” And we got into an accident when one person pulled in front of us from the oncoming lane for no apparent reason on a steep hill in heavy traffic. Fortunately, no one was injured and the damage to both vehicles was minor, but I still think she was a dumbass.
I don’t think every woman is a dumbass. I don’t think women should never drive. I don’t even think that woman was the worst person ever and a horrible monster and should be stripped of her licence for life.
I just think that particular woman, taking that particular action, was pretty much a dumbass.
Dang.. did NWO up and leave? Why is it that whenever I start commenting recently, the trolls vanish? Is my pink bubble-gum body and hat made out of fire too imposing for them? How are they not excited that they get a fresh chance to prove their point to somebody who hasn’t gotten embroiled in long derails?
Do they just really hate making their point in a manner that isn’t completely based off of mocking responses and long series of rhetorical questions?
Plymouth, you just don’t want to admit that the driver was the real victim here.
kirbywarp, your flaming hat strikes terror into the hearts of MRAs everywhere.
(And yes, that line will be appearing in the next story.)
That’s crazy. I’m not used to seeing drivers behaving so poorly around emergency vehicles, so I had no idea it was that common at all.
@Johnny Pez:
Hooray! ^__^ Can’t wait to read it :D
Me and Holly apparently represent all of feminism now xD *high fives Holly* (oh did you see the card I made of the Pervocracy btw Holly? :3 )
And what’s the point of even asking me and Holly questions when you basically said that our answers were wrong and you told us what we believe xD So again… what’s the point? Shouldn’t you just answer FOR us? xD
And are we lying or just naive? o_O Like I’m confused.. are you saying “You two don’t know yourselves! You WOULD act like this in the exact same context w/ the genders flipped!” or are you saying “you know you would and you’re LYING!”
The whole “don’t make me fetch comments” thing reminds me of something that happened to me and a friend when I was like 13 xD And a security guard stopped us outside of a store after he bought something and accused us of stealing, and we said we didn’t, and he said he saw us stealing, and my friend showed him the bag and receipt and he’s like NO NO I saw you stealing something else! then he said “don’t make me check the security video!” and we said, go ahead, we didn’t steal nething, and he said “no no I’ll check!” um sure… go check “no I’m SERIOUS, I’ll go check the video, you think I won’t, but I will!” and we said again then go ahead and check it! and he said finally “fine, you get off this time, but I’ll be watching you”
xD
@Johnny Pez:
Hooray! ^__^ Can’t wait to read it :D
My hat is rather fabulous, isn’t it?
@Johnny Pez Kirby will be getting a facelift in terms of the card art… my idea is he’s not a Darknyss minion but he works FOR them…. like a mercenary :3
crap.. double post.. Make that triple! Bwa ha ha ha haaaa!
@Plymouth wow that sucks >:| what a jerk driver… I’m glad you’re ok tho! :D (and yeah… what was w/ NWO’s response o_O if there was ever proof he doesn’t actually read things before responding to them xD)
“Have flaming hat, will travel.”
Hmm… cuz I’m bored and this has come up as an issue (somebody fwded a protest mail to me, I hadn’t even known it happened xD ) … what do ppl think of FIFA banning the Jordanian and Iranian women’s soccer teams from the Women’s World Cup (going on right now.. Canada had a rly terrible showing -_-) for wearing headscarves while they play? o:
Oh, I can expand the biking analogy further! Like men, oblivious drivers are mostly not malicious (though there are a few who think bikes don’t deserve to share the road) just clueless. Drivers are in a position of power – much more likely to injure bicyclists than the other way around. However, like women, bicyclists can totally also be clueless and cause drivers to get into accidents too! Like women, it’s inappropriate to tell bicyclists they can avoid all potential for injury by just staying home and not biking.
This is fun! Did I miss anything? I can also think of a couple of places where the analogy breaks down…
Ohh, also, like women bicyclists do make more of an extra effort to be aware of their surroundings and avoid the most dangerous intersections (neighborhoods).
It makes me happy when I see those “share the road” signs that try to remind cars that there are bicyclists around. Rebecca’s video struck me as being kinda like a “share the road” PSA.
Appropos of bicycles.. and not much else…
I haven’t corrected grammar in a while.
*Not bad grammar, per se, just poor writing. Although, I suppose that could be said for all of it.
**I know what you’re trying to say, but it’s just horribly worded. This is bad, even for you.
A lot of HTML here. Hope I don’t screw it up. Preview button, David?
Graham, that is terrible and sounds like something happened to my best friend (he was offered a lap dance and ran out of the room so fast he was home in about two minutes.) *bag of chocolate hugs*
And CB, earlier in the thread I said that when women act in a creepy way men call it being a psycho. But I would term it boiling bacon because that is just WRONG behavior!