“traditionalists are MRA’s”

No, they are criminals and misogynists which David the feminist clearly points out. In this article the despicable mgtow goons happen to have their facts right.

I’d have sex with frat boys… and Kirby… maybe at the same time… >_>;;;

“I’d have sex with frat boys… and Kirby… maybe at the same time”

If you have an STD I am sure kirby would be all over that.

Developers! Developers! Developers!: Given the general nature of this site and it’s stated objective of mocking misogynists, I think you have a bit of confirmation bias going on. You are purposefully going out and seeking misogamy. As a result, you mange to find quite a bit of it. However, you also miss all that you can’t find.

If he can’t find it, of course he misses it. That’s a tautology.

But, moving on (because the tautological problem isn’t really significant): I’ll ask you the same thing I ask everyone who says that (i.e. the problem is Dave/we ignore the non-whack-a-loon MRAs): Where are these reasonable advocates for the rights of men? Who are these people who are seriously addressing (without hatred and and bile) the structural problems they see in the present system?

Speak for yourself… I like Alphas xD That’s why I’m w/ Kirby xD Me and him were talking last night and we realized there’s actually a lot of alphas (both men and women) on Man Boobz XD

XDDD

Wait. so he *won’t* sleep w/ me unless I have an STD? xD

Kirby! You lied to me! >:*O

Kirby: at the risk of TMI… you have tentacles, just sort of short ones. Use your fingers,and wiggle them a lot.

You can sort of fake it with the more obvious/traditional appendage, just work on the various combinatorial aspects of hip-flexion and rotation: bonus points if you can get wiggling fingers involved.

@Ami:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my sexual preferences, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not want to catch an STI or STD and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.

Sadly the rest of the quote doesn’t really fit…

@ozy:

Eh, I’d probably be a little squeemish, sadly. But hey, that’s what protection is for, right?

@Pecunium:

Well, I am tall, with long limbs… *ponders*

@ozy:

Eh, I’d probably be a little squeemish, sadly. But hey, that’s what protection is for, right?

Wait. WHAT? >:|

FUCK YOU OZY it’s ON! >:O *cue the hair pulling*

Developers!x3, A question: Do you also go to sites that specifically are designed to talk about knitting and explain to them that they appear to be going out of their way to look for examples of knitting patterns and yarns and things to knit, and thus their vision is clouded by confirmation bias by always finding things to knit and missing out on all the things they cannot knit? It just strikes me as an odd concern for someone to have — Hey, your specialty blog is FOCUSED ON ONE THING! It fails entirely to preserve the majesty and scope of the world at large!

And yes, as Pecunium suggests, please feel free to link to MRA sites that aren’t misogynistic, if that’s your concern. Believe me, we ask that of everyone, and we always get steered to the same old misogynists.

@Pecunium
Rights of men? How about the ACLU (sometimes) and the EFF. Addressing the problems with the current system? Given my ideological stance, I’d say the the Heritage foundation does that.

Even within the manosphere, there are a couple of blogs that fit that criteria.Like Dalrock or for that matter Gerep.

Must I continue?

@OZY:

I THINK IN ACTUAL LIFE SHE IS QUITE TALL YOU SHOULD UPDATE YOUR MENTAL IMAGE

@OZY AND AMI

NOW NOW GIRLS NO NEED TO FIGHT THERE IS PLENTY OF KIRBY TO GO AROUND (I AM STRETCHY SO IT WORKS)

s/To/Do/g on that last post.

Darn typos…

YOU DON’T COUNT YOU ARE A KIRBY STEALING B-

crohet? now you’re talking!

@ozymandias42

DUMBASS HAS A POINT

I DON’T REALLY WANT TO CALL MYSELF AN MRA BECAUSE THE MRAS SEEM TO THINK THAT BEING A MASCULIST MEANS BEING OPPOSED TO FEMINISM EVEN THOUGH THAT IS MADE OF STUPID AND FAIL

Young lady, I’ll have you know that I play the cello, not the bass. However, I will freely admit to being rather dumb.

The thing point I’m trying to get at is opposing feminism is not the same thing as misogamy. I like traditional gender roles. I feel it is my duty to sacrifice for my (hypothetical, future) wife and family. To say that this idea is misogamy is like saying that volunteering at a animal shelter is a sign of a hatred of cats and dogs.

I feel it is my duty to sacrifice for my (hypothetical, future) wife and family.

That’s all well and good, Dev, but would you hunt the mammoth for them?

@Rutee it’s (blockquote) (/blockquote) but w/ angle brackets instead > < those ones…

Developers: The ACLU, the EFF, and the Heritage Foundation aren’t Men’s Rights’ organisations, and while they do have interest in issues which affect people’s rights, they don’t meet the criteria I asked about, nor even the problem you complained of, you complaint that Dave is not looking in the right places was in response to this statement (I say this, because you quoted it:

>Once again, if there are a lot of MRAs out there who do reject misogyny that I’ve somehow missed, please tell me where they hang out. So far the only “moderate” MRAs anyone seems to mention are Glenn Sacks, Pele Billig, and a tiny handful of others.

Gerep… Lessee:

There are times when I feel I have truly fallen through the rabbit hole. Now is such a time. Women apparently feel that the new frontier of empowerment hinges on their ability to dress like brothel workers and demand others respect them for their bad taste and attention whoring. For this women are marching: to look like the best lay a gold-mining saloon could offer; as in, not obviously diseased.

This is your idea of reasonable? Just because it was written by a woman doesn’t mean it’s not hateful of women who step outside of the roles (largely gender defined) she thinks they ought to inhabit.

She does this sort of thinking in a general way on other subjects. I’m also not seeing her writing about Men’s Rights’ qua men’s rights’. She is by and large writing about things she thinks are places/ways in which the overall culture is, “failing” and much of that is related to issues which she sees feminism as driving, (e.g. Mother’s don’t rely on police to do the job of a father)

Her Mission statements are:

The Lost Art of Self-Preservation (for Women)

The Truth

Life isn’t fair. Being alive doesn’t entitle you to anything. Women are ensuring their own downfall with their selfish behavior and short-term outlook. Men are bigger than women, stronger than women, and more violent than women. For the past half century our legal system has acted outside their interests, and men have taken the vast share of economic hits in this most recent “recession.” A backlash is coming. The pendulum is starting to swing back. What are you going to do to prepare for it?

She says her target audience is her 9-year old niece

So I don’t really think she counts as an MRA either; hostile to feminism, and somewhat misogynistic, but not relevant to your specific complaint.

Dalrock is in the same sort of boat. He’s a traditionalist who is blaming feminism for what he sees as the downfall of society. He has a view of what things should be, and some less than equitable ideas about the sexes: This insight doesn’t come from a manosphere related blog, but straight from downtown hamsterville. , isn’t really impressing me that he sees men and women as being equal.

That he is willing to append this to one of his entries *I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the story. Either way the basic lesson is true whether the parable itself is.

He is appending that to a piece in which he purports to be explaining fundamental differences between the sexes; a piece in which he says, The attitude this story represents is part of what I think defines being a man. Since feminism has taught us to not see men as different than women, most men have probably internalized this as what it means to be an adult. However, while men are being taught that it is essential to finish what they started and accept the consequences of their own choices (and boasts), women are often taught to be frivolous so as to never be unhappy, and to reject adulthood. One of the more frustrating parts of feminism for men is finding out that most women never really intended for men to take them seriously on it, at least on the hard parts.

So, I commend you for being willing to offer up examples, and will grant they are not as horrid, in their wording, as the entries Dave mocks (which may be why he doesn’t mock them), but I don’t agree that they are 1: actually advocating for men (they are advocating for a social model, in which men and women aren’t actually equal), nor that they aren’t actually misogynistic.

Developers: The thing point I’m trying to get at is opposing feminism is not the same thing as misogamy. I like traditional gender roles. I feel it is my duty to sacrifice for my (hypothetical, future) wife and family. To say that this idea is misogamy is like saying that volunteering at a animal shelter is a sign of a hatred of cats and dogs.

And you are allowed to like that. I have no problem with your wanting to do those things. I hope you find a partner who meets your needs, and whose needs you meet as well.

I don’t care that you have those beliefs. I don’t care if the dolts on the Spearhead think all women are stinky-pants bitches whom they would be glad to dance on the graves of. I don’t even care that NWO is six-kinds of obsessive idiot.

So long as they don’t go around making pronouncements about how the world ought to cater to those beliefs. If, and when (which is pretty damned often) I reserve the right to point and laugh.

DeveloperX3, Bee sort of already said this, but this site focuses (mostly) on misogyny, not the MRM per se. A lot of the people I write about are not MRAs at all. But the misogyny in the MRM tends to be fairly entertaining and/or horrific, as misogyny goes, so I tend to write about it a lot.

Fair enough. So, to confirm that I have this right, not everyone in the ‘Boobroll’ is an MRA or part of the MRM, so therefore I have to cast a narrower net if I want to find a significant number of these folks who reject misogyny? I the Traditionalist Conservatives are not included? If so, fair enough.

I can’t get onto NiceGuy’s forums since most of the boards are members-only, but let’s try a little piece from the main site, shall we?

I’m NiceGirl. Why did I make this site, if I’m Nice? Because: Ameriskanks (mostly) Suck*. (“Ameriskanks” means “North American males” obviously.) And yes, they ‘re horrible beyond imagination. Don’t shoot the messenger. It’s actually a good thing for me to come out and say this- our biggest critics are our truest friends because they show us how to improve ourselves. In this case, I’m giving an entire gender the criticism it needs to improve itself.**

Did you ever notice that only a man can talk about the superiority of his own sex without getting booed or scolded? Did you ever notice there is no shortage of excuses and tolerance whenever sexist speech or behavior comes from a man? And did you ever notice that any man who claims to be concerned about “inequality” usually manages to studiously ignore (or angrily deny) the inequalities that favor him?
These types of observations ought to raise a number of ugly questions about men, and yet these types of questions are seldom asked. Why?

Eventually, our heroine moves to Japan where she soon discovers that Japanese men are wonderful and inherently superior to their vile counterparts in the West! Not content to just hate American Men by herself, she talks about it for hours on a date with a random guy:

“This is how American dudes reflexively think, Ryoutaro. I’m not kidding you. And this is so deeply ingrained in their heads, they think that hitting or hurting women is perfectly fine. They do not give women’s lives or emotions the same level of value that they would impute to their own. And they even consider men’s wages and career opportunities to be more important than women’s lives. In fact, a man’s hurt feelings are considered more important than whether a woman lives or dies! That’s how sexist they are. They don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. You’ve seen the movie Titanic, do you remember the principle of ‘men and children first’?”

“Yes.” Ryoutaro nodded.

“Why not ‘children and men first’, eh?” I shrugged quizzically. “Why not? Well, that gives you a clue as to how western men see themselves in the pecking-order. They simply come first. Even before kids.”

“Soo…” He frowned.

“If the Titanic were to sink today, do you think that any men would volunteer to go-down with the ship?” I snorted. “Hell no. They’d all pretend to be pregnant, or start crying ‘poor me! I’m a poor widdle man!’ And after they got back to land, they’d immediately restart demanding equal treatment at work. And this reversal in behavior would occur without any pause or reflection whatsoever. That’s how they act!”

“What would you do if you were on the Titanic?” He asked.

“Today? And if I heard the crew calling ‘men and children first’? If that happened, I’d grab the nearest 25 year old man and toss him into the icy drink. Then I’d sing and laugh as I watched him drown. If I’m gonna die, I’ll take at least one of them with me. Tee-hee-hee.” I smiled evilly. “No fucking way should anyone be chivalrous whenever North American dudes are involved. But for you, Ryoutaro — I’d certainly give you my seat on the lifeboat.” I smiled sweetly. “In an instant.”

“Oh, thank you!” Ryoutaro put his hands on his cheeks and pretended to blush.

Devoloper, you should mention that traditionalists are a fringe group that are rejected bu the majority of the mrm… ot perhaps you are a sick puppy idk.

Kirby

“Kirby

“When you strip away the obfuscatory language they use to describe these rights, they turn out to be:

– The right of fathers to avoid providing financial support for their children.
– The right of fathers to have unfettered access to their children, no matter how much of a threat they might pose to those children.
– The right of husbands to prevent their wives from divorcing them.
– The right of ex-husbands to maintain control over their ex-wives.
– The right of men to prevent women from terminating pregnancies that they have donated sperm to.
– The right of men to rape women with impunity by creating an impossibly high burden of proof for rape victims who file charges against their attackers.”

Then you wonder why people think the average feminists are assholes and lying liars. Feminist like you teach them

So, I’m allowed to what whatever I want, so long as I don’t acctually get it? Like it or not, the feminists, the PUAs, the (misogynist) MRAs, and even the egalitarian ‘Men’s Rights Activists’ are all making it harder for me to find a partner “who meets your needs, and whose needs you meet as well”.

I should damn well hope so. I should hope the number of women who fall into ‘traditional’ gender roles drops once they stop being enforced so heavily.

Yeah, we’re both trying to change the world to suit what we consider as ‘more correct’, but what you consider correct is apparently for women to be stuck with no choice. If you accept that humans should have choices in what they do, and that women are humans, your system’s worse, period. And if you don’t, I don’t give a shit about your opinion.

@Ami: Thank you kindly.

Ozymandais

Another arm chair expert.

Masculism like the mrm, and the two over lap greatly are opposed to some aspects of feminism, misandric, gynnocentric and feminist jurisprudence where its hostile to legal equality and are compatible with others, equity feminism for example.

You have so much to learn but you wont lean it here, assuming you are genuine, but your participation here draws that into question.

You should read some books about masculism and hang out with some MRAs.

All you will get here amounts to being brought to a football match and kept in an area of the stadium where there is a drunk and rowdy group and told that groups defines the whole sport.

Do mras and masculists tend to think that the majority of feminists are assholes and lying liars?

Yes.

Watch Kirby show us how feminists help people to come to that conclusion.

“What distinguishes MRAs in particular is, as their name states, that they believe men are entitled to certain rights. When you strip away the obfuscatory language they use to describe these rights, they turn out to be:

– The right of fathers to avoid providing financial support for their children.
– The right of fathers to have unfettered access to their children, no matter how much of a threat they might pose to those children.
– The right of husbands to prevent their wives from divorcing them.
– The right of ex-husbands to maintain control over their ex-wives.
– The right of men to prevent women from terminating pregnancies that they have donated sperm to.
– The right of men to rape women with impunity by creating an impossibly high burden of proof for rape victims who file charges against their attackers.”

@Everyone – I read this page without reading the 100ish comments before it. Srsly lol.

@Darksidecat – If you go back far enough, we’re probably* all of African descent

(*as far as I can tell, the out-of-Africa theory has more going for it than any other, but it’s also not a debate I follow closely)

So, yeeeah. “Pure race” is BS. Genetically speaking, it’s a blip on the genome, not really much of a difference at all. Also, race has interestingly flexible categories, if you look cross-culturally and across history…people (where I am, anyway) tend to view it as essential and fixed, but where we draw racial lines is super arbitrary and actually has very little to do where someone’s ancestors are from.

@Developersx3 – Okay, here’s what bothers me about the traditionalist stuff. You’re view of what is “traditional” seems to be stuck in the last century. In the vast expanse of human history, I’m not sure there’s anything that traditional at all about, say, the 1950s.

Though gender roles of some kind are fairly ubiquitous across history, exactly what those were are how they are viewed has changed, and varied between groups of people.

Also, while I respect your opinion and desire for a particular type of marriage and lifestyle, it is directly oppositional to the lifestyle I want to have, should I ever get married. I don’t know that your views make you a misogynist (I certainly would not be comfortable calling you one) but it does give me this knee jerk reaction of, well, for lack of a more eloquent term, fuck that.

If gender roles become less strict, women still have every right to choose to have “traditional” (let’s call it modern-traditional) marriages. I don’t really have any problem with a woman choosing a modern-traditional marriage, if that’s what she wants. If you’re happy, good for you two.

But I have a really, really big problem with anyone trying to impose that on me. If I have to choose between a modern-traditional marriage and a life of being single (including single parenthood, should I get to a place where I feel I have the sufficient energy and resources to be a mother). Because I have no interest in a relationship with someone who just wants to sacrifice for me. I want a relationship that values equality and compromise. I want a partner who will take just as much time out of work as I do to raise our child.

You say that gender-equality feminism is making it harder for you to find the sort of woman you want. Maybe feminism brainwashed all the ladies into thinking they want equality and autonomy. Or maybe most women actually want equality and autonomy.

I do hope you find someone you are happy with. But I am uncomfortable with the implication that social rules should force more women to be the sort of people you want to marry.

You said: “The way I see it, advocating for inequality (or, perhaps more accurately, a recognition that gender heterogeneity as being perfectly normal and good)”

1. Define normal.
2. Explain why it is good.
3. Provide sources for any generalizations (“most women,” “most men,” etc).

624 comments — musta been a good night people!
Ami: Thanks–I did not realize that link was to the SCUM manifesto–skimming too fast and not clicking on links.

But I woke up this mornng thinking, wow, he had to go back to 1970 to find something he could regender to ‘prove’ how vile feminists are (well, he might know it was from 1970!). But still–apparently the spew David links to is posted regularly on MRA sites–not on current feminist blogs (tough I’m sure one could still find some major extremsts).