Stare me up, stare me down
That bitch in the white boots -- what the fuck is she staring at?
Women truly are devious creatures. Over on MGTOWforums.com, a young fellow named Deano exposes yet more evidence of their accursed misandry: the dreaded stare-and-sneer!
Let’s let him explain:
[M]any women have trouble making eye contact when they approach a man who they know to be perfectly harmless and friendly. As they come within the range where a male acquaintance would simply look you in the eye and nod or say “Hi”, our female friends will stare down and sneer as if you’re a giant slimy turd they cannot bare to look at.
I confess I haven’t run across this so much, but let’s take him at his word: this happens ALL THE TIME! What’s even worse, those pretty princesses often do this even after you’ve spent the whole morning Going Your Own Way helping out cute girls in case this might lead one of them to give you a blowjob.
You may have just gone out of your way earlier that day to fix her hairdryer or carry something heavy up 10 flights of stairs but all of that is forgotten when she sees the opportunity to show what a sulky little bitch she really is.
But Deano is ready for them.
I like to point at the spot they’re staring at as I walk past – as if I have some special powers to direct their gaze. I don’t do it all the time, but it can be piss funny especially when other guys watching are in on the joke.
In your face!
Surprisingly, the story got a bit of a mixed reaction from the other fellows over there. Stonelifter, a true blue MGTOWer, responded with a terse:
I don’t have female friends
Dr. Poon, a medical doctor Going His Own Way who for some reason seems to have specialized in the ickiest parts of a woman, was a bit more supportive:
It is counter-intuitive, but you are doing everything right.
NEVER avoid a woman’s gaze, let HER break the eye lock first and look to the side or to the ground. The establishes DOMINANCE on your end and SUBMISSIVENESS on hers.
LivingFree has a simpler approach:
I usually avoid looking at them during passing. I dont want to give them any impression I value anything about them.
Exactly! That’s why, whenever I spot a girl, I run and hide in a bush. Totally puts them in their place.
I am glad I gave up that whole feminism thing yesterday. I am learning so much about these foul creatures I used to worship.
EDITED TO ADD: I found the picture above here. I added the little red arrow.
Posted on July 1, 2011, in evil women, I'm totally being sarcastic, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, MGTOW paradox, misogyny, nice guys. Bookmark the permalink. 246 Comments.
And we were taking about Dworkin and Farrell. This thread disintegrated pretty quickly, actually.
Anyone … have any fun plans for the weekend?
I have to go visit family in San Diego-which means it is a half fun.
Wish I could take my car so I could run away during the day and go spend the day at the beach staring with longing at the ocean.
I’m terrible at eye-contact. It makes me feel uncomfortable, to say the least. However, I’ve found that looking at various points on the face (eyebrows, mouth, nose, etc) in succession works pretty well. Whenever I mention my eye contact issue to someone, they say they didn’t notice.
I think, in Luke’s ideal world, the accused gets a walk, but the accuser gets put in custody, just in case.
I’m seeing a screening of Terry Gilliam’s Brazil on Sunday. I love that movie.
And all I’m saying is that we can’t (well, we *can*, but probably shouldn’t) jump to conclusions one way or another until the powers that be within the court system are finished with their work.
Nobody is saying that a ‘person immersed in feminist dogma’ should be responsible for determining whether or not there is reasonable doubt, so when you said it in a response to me it gave the impression that you were suggesting that either I or others on here are, in your eyes, unreasonable due to some sort of…immersion in feminist dogma. Thank you for clearing that up =p
Ah, I was confused. You, in fact, never stated the above. I apologize.
woot! I love it when parties agree on something! *turns cartwheels*
No special weekend plans, but I may be making a home visit to a couple who are looking to adopt a rescue basenji.
right! I am off! <3 Wish me luck! I will try to get pictures! :3
“@Hippodameia Like any great leader, I delegate.”
XD XD
I like the shirt in the photo you posted.
San Diego and “Brazil”? How international! I’ve never been to/seen either. Both sound like great fun!
Anyone wanna switch with me? I’ve got finals! Anyone? Anyone?
Plymouth, I understand your frustration, but I don’t think this is off-topic. Rape culture is a multi-tentacled monster, but it’s still all one thing. I think we both know why random women on the street don’t make eye contact with random men… some of the men will take it as an invitation. And it’s impossible to know beforehand which men are like that, and which are not.
The MGTOW’ers, MRA’s, PUA’s, “Nice Guys”, “Involuntary Virgins” and general SOB’s are not unaware of this. But because they want to blame women coming and going, they pretend that it’s easy to sort out the assholes from the genuinely good men (which they of course believe themselves to be) just at a glance. So of course, it’s the nasty, stuck-up bitches who pretend that making eye contact is dangerous… when it actually is. QED.
Brazil isn’t actually set in Brazil – it’s a dystopian future (sort of) movie set in England – but it uses the song Brazil as a Leitmotif.
Great movie. Highly recommended.
Mediumdave, I agree with you that issues surrounding eye-contact are a part of rape culture, but I think Plymouth’s complaints are legitament. The discussion got de-railed into rape apology issues that we have already talked about to death, and that have absolutely nothing to do with eye contact.
So, Plymouth, I’m sorry!
And bee, are you sure you want to switch with me? I have to work this weekend. D=
Huh. Well, I’m not going to apologize, but if others wish to drop this topic, fine by me.
Dave: in my experience, the guys who complain about women being cautious are misusing “innocent until proven guilty” to mean “women are morally obligated to assume the best about me sight unseen, and to do otherwise is akin to a false accusation.”
So that’s why they act like the Schrodingers Rapist thing is some sort of collective false accusation. Instead of actually trying to understand why women feel that way.
Good luck, Ami! Have fun! Rock the wings!
Yep, such as our friend Eo- uh, the guy who changes his name every week. Another round of that would be too tiresome to contemplate. :D
sure Bee, what is the topic of the final?
Personally, I refrain from making eye contact on the street because eye-contact is basically an accusation of rape*. I mean, eye contact encourages men to hit on me and we all know that hitting on someone is just one step removed from having sex with them so by making eye contact with me he’s basically having sex with me so if I have eye contact back I’m letting him rape me! And I’d only let him do that if I planned to accuse him of rape so I can lock him up for life.
There, did I manage to tie the topics together?
*not intended to be a factual statement
You put it better than I did, Plymouth. :D
Hmmm…. I have weekend plans, and could also use some advice myself. My co-habiting boyfriend is running an L5R game this weekend, and I’m mostly looking forward to it. The only thing keeping me from completely looking forward to it is the fact that one of his friends is kind of an asshole to me. He makes really cutting remarks, and I only come up with a good comeback when it’s too late to say anything. I know my boyfriend would listen to me if I said I was sick of the comments and disinvite this guy, but they are really good friends. And my boyfriend just moved from Massachusetts so we could be together, and hasn’t made many new friends, and he’s been friends with this guy for years, so I kind of don’t want to fuck up his social life. Further complicating matters is that my boyfriend works for this guy’s wife. It’s not a job he enjoys, and he’s currently looking for different work, but for now, he’s there.
You would do really well at it, Elizabeth. *wink, wink*
Sarah, you would also do better than me at the final. Although I can’t assure you that you’d still have a job after I was done! I don’t feel like doing nothing these days, but sitting in the garden pulling weeds and reading shit on the internet.
Yeah, Spear, I love me some Brazil, too. Great movie.
Victoria, I don’t have any good advice for you, but I know who would:
http://captainawkward.com/
I doubt she’d be able to get to you in time for it to be of use this weekend, but this sounds like it;s an ongoing thing. Send her a note!
@Bee: “I don’t feel like doing nothing these days,”
So you feel like doing something? And sometimes it is ok to just garden and read…
Is the final on sex or gaming? Because otherwise I’m not sure I’d be any good. I feel like you are implying something, but I really don’t know what….
Lady Syrus, I would talk to your boyfriend’s friend about it! He sounds like he’s not a bad person, honestly. I suspect he thinks he’s just lightly teasing you, and that you don’t mind. If you tell him it hurts your feelings, he may very well feel bad and stop! And trying can’t hurt, even if it’s not an innocent misunderstanding. I think it should be your first step before you doing anything else at all. *nods*
@ Sarah: I don’t know, this ‘teasing’ has involved stuff like calling me ‘sloppy seconds’ or saying that the only reason some guys (guys I respect and who respect me) are friends with me is because of my tits. Even still, I think calling him on it would be the best way to get him to stop. I’m trying to think of the most politic way to go about actually bringing it up.
@ David: I just might! I’ve got Capt. Awkward on my blog reader and I do enjoy what she writes. This is probably right up her alley.
Oh man, yeah. That’s pretty harsh. I would still definatly talk about it with him. He might still not realize how hurtful he’s being. That’s not an excuse, but he still might stop if you ask nicely! We both know that gamer boys are really oblivious.
And I bet your boyfriend would much, much rather have you talk to him about this issue then have you suffer in silence.
Or you could try challenging him to an iaijutsu duel. DEFEND YOUR HONOR, WOMAN!
Hell no, Scorpion all the way! ;)
Sarah! Well, I feel like doing nothing, basically. No studying, no notes, no research, no grammar. I’m worn out from school, and now I’m kind of in half-ass summer school, and it’s like I just paid $8K to suck ass. So, you’d do better than me because you’re smart, but also because at this point I feel like anyone* would do better than me!
*Well, not just anyone. You know what I mean.
Victoria: I don’t have any good advice, but as for what I’d do in your shoes — probably either stay away from him or just say something short but to the point the next time he said something to me. Just something like, That’s rude, and I can’t talk with someone who’s being rude to me. Excuse me.
I’m not really good at confrontation, though! I just like to participate in Q and A.
Aw, *hugs* for bee. I am sure you are rocking more then you think. When I was in school I always thought I was absolutely sucking ass at everything, but I still manged to do alright. (I mean, I also still managed to drop-out, but that’s another story altogether…) And I’m glad you think I’m smart, but school and I have a terrible track record! I have confidence in your ability to ace this final, because you’re smart too. <3
Victoria — send it! It’s perfect for her — it’s a relationship question, a social awkwardness question, a work-life question, a dealing-with-douchebags question. It’s got everything!
‘Sloppy seconds’?? That’s a nasty thing to say! I’d probably tell him that he needs to shut the fuck up and stop saying RUDE things to me, because I don’t like getting angry. Grr. (cracks knuckles)
How is it your bf is friends with this turd, when he talks to you like that? :/
Sigh… I hope that you can put the kibosh on that shit quickly and easily.
Victoria: calling someone “sloppy seconds” is not on, and it’s teasing, it’s packed fat with passive-aggressive asshole behavior. The next time he does it, ask him if he really meant that and tell him how rude he’s being.
Has he said this in front of your boyfriend? Does he think it’s teasing? Job with his wife or not, he should definitely back you up.
@ Doctress:
Yeah, the ‘sloppy seconds’ comment actually stunned me into silence long enough for the moment to pass before I could come up with a good reply.
As to the bf, this friend usually doesn’t say those things when he’s around (my bf and I were long distance for awhile). And telling my boyfriend, “Your friend was mean to me!” sounds too much like tattling to me.
I don’t see it as tattling, your bf would probably want to know if this guy was being assy to you. I would want to know if one of my friends was being a dick to my husband.
I can definitely see the whole tattling (nobody likes a snitch! j/k) thing- but, as a person who has been mischevious yet harmless since kidhood, I always felt like that word sort of shamed kids out of telling someone if they were really being bullied and stuff, you know? Your bfs’ friend sounds like a p-a (I second that one) turd and a misogynist. I would tell the bf, because if this dude only says that toxic shit when he’s not around, he KNOWS that he’s being an asshole, and thinks he’s cute and getting away with being a dick to his friend’s gf. I’d waste no time in stopping it. Hopefully your bf will support you in this- shit, he’d better, I think! Damn.
And what’s it? L’esprit d’Elescalier? That thing where you have an awesome comeback like way after they’re gone? Hate that! But, I am well-versed in the Snappy Comeback. Usually, a direct ‘you neeed to shut the fuck up’ works fine, at least as an opener.
Yeah, I know my bf would take my side in a heartbeat, which is one of the reasons he’s so awesome. But I don’t really want to come between him and his friend at the same time.
@Doctoress–or a good “sloppy seconds? like your mom?” might shut the guy up. But then I too am from the “shut the fuck up” school of communication and rhetorical studies when faced with asses like this.
One last thing, and I’m pissing off…
I wouldn’t worry about trying to be politic or anything like that. Nasty toxic behavior like that can be acceptably called out as nastily as it was dealt, I think. Cuss him out and make him squirm. Preferably in front of the bf, so he can see his ‘friend’s’ true colors.
Well, the problem then is that you’re switching the slut-shaming from her to the dude’s mom, so that makes another problematic thing.
The STFU is also saying ‘I am ordering you to shut up, because you are not worth anything more than that. Also, you are inferior to me since you are so rude and nasty.’ And then go back to talking with the grownups, you know? Kind of dommy, I guess, huh? I should work at a dungeon- where is one in this town? lol
I said I was going and I’m still here! FLOUNCE! LOL
I also like to say ‘YOU are working on my LAST NERVE.’ It makes toxic little boys think twice. Hee!
I’m sticking with the “I’m actually shocked you’d say something so rude to me” response. Although maybe it doesn’t work as well if he’s done it before. Maybe just something like “Y’know, just because you’re always rude doesn’t mean it’s acceptable” before turning on your heel and leaving. Then again, like I said, nonconfrontational here.
Sarah: Thanks for the hugs! I need hugs and coffee and a good cry and a tutor and and and. I think I’ve given up a little in one class. I’m gonna try to rock out a superstar final project for class number two though. In a bit… I think.
“Y’know, just because you’re always rude doesn’t mean it’s acceptable”
That’s a good one. If he says anything unpleasant tonight, I might use a variation on that line. Since my boyfriend and I are the hosts, leaving is less of an option tonight.
Thanks for all the advice! I’ll let y’all know if anything happened. Sometimes he’s perfectly civil and nice.
I dunno, I think it’s pretty confrontational to say those kinds of things to someone. So, I feel like I’d want to establish very clearly that I feel attacked. I mean, if I wanted to be less harsh, I would say something like what you said- or, maybe ‘That is a disgusting thing to say to me, and I REALLY don’t want you to talk to me like that again.’ I just like to swear, I guess. It’s so lyrical. :P
Good luck Victoria, and Godspeed! :D
/sends assertive and positive vibes
Good luck, Lady Syrus! I agree with everyone here! Especially because he dosen’t do this in front if your boyfriend, I think hew knows he’s being an ass-face, and so you should hold him to task for it! Bullies thrive on shame and silence! (Scorpions do too, for that matter. >_> *dosen’t actually play L5R, just knows a bajillion and a half people who do*)
And, of course, Bee! If anyone wants/needs hugs I am always happy to provide! It’s ok to sometimes just need to vent and cry. If you want to I can give you my aim or something so you can vent in a more private space, if you’d like! ANd I have faith in your ability to rock these finals! <3
Re: Eye contact.
Other people have said this before in the thread, but it really is a cultural thing. I spend most of my time split between the southeast US and New England. In the south, I make eye contact and smile with pretty much everyone person I pass on that street. That’s just what you do here. If you don’t already know someone, you rarely get more than a hello-nod unless you take further steps to actually talk to the person.
In New England, I never make eye contact on the street. People don’t really do that there. If you do, it is seen as a big gesture – usually either as kind of invasive or as an invitation to get hit on.
*sings* ‘It must’ve beeeen love, but it’s overrr noooowwwww.’
So, an interesting tidbit about the situation in France. In France on is presumed guilty (in law) as soon as one is arrested. Expect that in this case, from the get-go, the French press, and public figures, have all been saying he has to be presumed innocent.
Just an interesting factoid.
@luke,
By your contention that rape is only rape when force and violence are used, children are not raped when adults offer them candy if they allow the adults to do whatever they want to them; employees are not raped when bosses threaten them with firing if they don’t submit to their bosses’ sexual demands; people aren’t raped when unconscious or otherwise incapacitated; people aren’t raped when they are in the middle of a sexual activity and ask their partners to stop, but their partners continue; a person isn’t raped if someone else pretended to be hir partner while the lights were out and had “sex” with hir. And I could go on. You’re an idiot.
On eye-contact, for fuck’s sake, this is how my experience as a woman goes:
Have a casual conversation with a man you don’t know?
He thinks that entitles him to turn the conversation to try and make you agree to have sex with him.
Smile at a man just to be friendly?
He thinks that entitles him to a conversation with me.
Accidentally smile in a man’s direction?
He thinks I smiled at him.
Accidentally make eye-contact with a man?
He tells me to smile.
Avoid making eye-contact in order to avoid all of the above?
Well, apparently now I’m a “sulky little bitch”.
Fuck off! We can’t win, can we? Literally nothing we do is good enough for these assholes, and I wish it were limited to MRAs, but unfortunately it’s not.
Note: I’m sure there are plenty of men who do not behave that way, but for me most men I encounter in the above scenarios do, and it wears on you after a while.
luke123: This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no “reasonable doubt” in the mind of a “reasonable person” that the defendant is guilty. There can still be a doubt, but only to the extent that it would not affect a reasonable person’s belief regarding whether or not the defendant is guilty.
That, my dear boy, is called a trial. The accused retains the (legal) presumption of innocence, pending a jury (or judge if the accused waives the right to a jury trial), weighing the facts presented by both sides (this is called an adversarial system) and comparing the evidence against the law, and deciding which set of facts is more likely to be true than not.
I heard that crap before. Except it was (white) dudes whining that other furriners in Nipponland weren’t making eye contact/saying hello on the street. Strangers, mind you. Eye contact was def a nono there, although I paid attention to my surroundings well. Which meant I could always tell when people were staring. It isn’t unique to Japan, but they do love to stare at obvious foreigners. And being a girl meant I got an extra lot of it.
When talking about it, (white) guys would always tell me I should just stare back. It was really hard to get them to even listen to me–staring back would be an invitation. If I stared, well, I’ve explained well enough the stuff that happened to me there without staring. Guys just don’t get that for some reason. Read any of those “how to tell she’s interested” articles and they’ll say eye contact eye contact eye contact!
And if you do make eye contact they don’t look away, either. Tried it a couple of times. Even with making angry faces and a double bird flip. :/
Anyway, I hate eye contact. Prefer to look at someone’s mouth when they talk. And on the street? Forget it.
@Bee, I understand the feeling, somewhat. As I am the budget master, and because I think my only borderline lower middle class lifestyle is luxurious, I made two semesters worth of living expenses last the whole year, so I really can take the summer off. Of course, I can’t work for pay, because I have to make lots of money or basically none in order to have medical care. So I am being a lazy shut-in this summer.
I think this might be my themesong for the summer…
Bee-it is on history or the law?
Because if it is the law, I know a very narrow set of it.
@alex
My point is that not every sexual contact that is disliked by a woman should be called rape.
There are varying degrees, and rape historically meant that violence is involved.
Feminists want to change the meaning of words to make everyone questioning their claims or any scepticism be called rape apologism, and rape culture, thus watering down the meaning of the word.
see here: http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/
Are you 100% sure that you never did any of the things in that list ? Don’t lie! If you did you are a rape supporter you know.
So.. wait.. I’m confused… WHICH female blogger represents all of feminism now? o_O;;
My point is that not every sexual contact that is disliked by a woman should be called rape.
Which kinds should not be? o_O
or if you dun want to list those.. what specifically should be? :] and what do you believe feminists think should be rape? (dun link to general lists.. or claim that some blogger is ALL of feminism xD this is about the worldview you’re working from, so we can be clear :) you’re asserting things, you are reacting as if ppl are misinterpreting you :\ so to clear things up, what is your worldview? :] )
Elizabeth: Law. And I know nothing! And I don’t know how to take exams! This is bad.
Darksidecat; You’re smart! I was going to take the summer off, or at least just do my volunteer work, but after two weeks of vacation I thought, I’m going to get really bored, so I’d better find something to do, and … ugh. Need to work on that impulse control.
How does he decide which bloggers represent “feminism” and which don’t? o_O Do I? xD
Women don’t refer to every sexual contact they dislike as rape. The phrase you’re looking for is “sexual harrassment”. A cynical person might think you were deliberately conflating the two terms, but I am a stranger to cynicism, so I’ll just assume that you’ve never heard of “sexual harrassment” and have only the word “rape” to describe the vast array of unwelcome sexual advances that women are routinely subjected to.
I think anything that involves non-consentual sexual violence should be called rape.
The non-consent should be clear and proven.
Non-consentual sex without violence is a form of sexual assault, but not rape.
Of course one could argue about definations, but it just bugs me that if I am to believe some things I read from feminists, everything they somewhat dislike is rape or a consequence of rape culture or what have you. If you follow that thinking then, yeah everyone is a rapists and a rape victim, and the words just become meaningless.
“How does he decide which bloggers represent “feminism” and which don’t?”
Well good question. How do *you* decide that ?
I don’t claim that any single blogger represents all of feminism o_O
You are linking to single bloggers while talking about what feminism believes, that is why I’m wondering :3
Ami, was it Luke who claimed that Man Boobz was a subsidiary of Feministe, or am I thinking of someone else?
That was NWO xD He said David was funded by Feministe xD
I swear, one day we’re gonna run into aliens who link to Stormfront and other sites and will be like LOOK WHAT YOU HUMANS BELIEVE xD
That’s why I made a card about Feministe.. xD Mount Boobz will be IN Feministe xD I was thinking… that maybe it’s not a great name tho :\ should it be M’an Bo’obz.. or maybe in reverse… Zbo’ob Nam or something :| Anybody have preferences in what sounds like a more fantasy thing for the evil mountain cave where the Darknyss rests? :]
(this applies to Luke too xD he didn’t answer my angel wings or clothing question before :\ but I’m an equal opportunity kitty :3 )
That reminds me of a SF story by, I think, Arthur Clarke, about treelike aliens who get their idea of what humans are like based solely on the first one they meet . . . who happens to be a lumberjack.