Stare me up, stare me down
That bitch in the white boots -- what the fuck is she staring at?
Women truly are devious creatures. Over on MGTOWforums.com, a young fellow named Deano exposes yet more evidence of their accursed misandry: the dreaded stare-and-sneer!
Let’s let him explain:
[M]any women have trouble making eye contact when they approach a man who they know to be perfectly harmless and friendly. As they come within the range where a male acquaintance would simply look you in the eye and nod or say “Hi”, our female friends will stare down and sneer as if you’re a giant slimy turd they cannot bare to look at.
I confess I haven’t run across this so much, but let’s take him at his word: this happens ALL THE TIME! What’s even worse, those pretty princesses often do this even after you’ve spent the whole morning Going Your Own Way helping out cute girls in case this might lead one of them to give you a blowjob.
You may have just gone out of your way earlier that day to fix her hairdryer or carry something heavy up 10 flights of stairs but all of that is forgotten when she sees the opportunity to show what a sulky little bitch she really is.
But Deano is ready for them.
I like to point at the spot they’re staring at as I walk past – as if I have some special powers to direct their gaze. I don’t do it all the time, but it can be piss funny especially when other guys watching are in on the joke.
In your face!
Surprisingly, the story got a bit of a mixed reaction from the other fellows over there. Stonelifter, a true blue MGTOWer, responded with a terse:
I don’t have female friends
Dr. Poon, a medical doctor Going His Own Way who for some reason seems to have specialized in the ickiest parts of a woman, was a bit more supportive:
It is counter-intuitive, but you are doing everything right.
NEVER avoid a woman’s gaze, let HER break the eye lock first and look to the side or to the ground. The establishes DOMINANCE on your end and SUBMISSIVENESS on hers.
LivingFree has a simpler approach:
I usually avoid looking at them during passing. I dont want to give them any impression I value anything about them.
Exactly! That’s why, whenever I spot a girl, I run and hide in a bush. Totally puts them in their place.
I am glad I gave up that whole feminism thing yesterday. I am learning so much about these foul creatures I used to worship.
EDITED TO ADD: I found the picture above here. I added the little red arrow.
Posted on July 1, 2011, in evil women, I'm totally being sarcastic, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, MGTOW paradox, misogyny, nice guys. Bookmark the permalink. 246 Comments.
I find it hard to look at people in the eye-I have reasons for it and it has to do with not very nice stuff that has happened in my past.
So this guy’s whining is just that…whining.
Yeah, good grief–avoiding making eye contact with people, especially men, in public, has a whole host of reasons, but it’s rarely if ever about dissing TEH MAN.
And “I shall show my power over you by pointing at THAT spot” magical thinking—OK!
+100000 points to stonelifter, for having some self awareness and honestly stating what is true of everyone on that thread.
“will stare down and sneer as if you’re a giant slimy turd they cannot bare to look at” Shit, even I know that is not friendly body language being described right there.
“its more the eyes face and hair that i notice the body is next though heh. im going to go stare at marisa and anyone be damned if they dont like it ” Congrats, ratslicer, you clearly are not talking about friends either.
“all of that is forgotten when she sees the opportunity to show what a sulky little bitch she really is” You are not that person’s friend, Deano.
It’s interesting, because I’ve found that when i look a strange man in the eye, there’s a high chance that he’ll take it as permission to say whatever he likes about my looks, what i’m wearing. and what i’ll be doing that night. Usually, i just don’t want the fucking aggravation (I hate catcalls and the like; they make me uncomfortable) so I just WON’T make eye contact. I’ve found that taking out my cell and pretending to text or something is a really non-awkward way to do this.
Maybe I don’t make eye contact too much in public, because living in a big city that meant inviting all sorts of batshit into your life.
If they really are unable to go their own way, which they seem to be, I have two suggestions for them:
1. Don’t name your movement after an action you are unlikely to take. It just makes you look dumb.
2. How about joining the organization that I just made up, Men Understanding That Everything’s Not About Them. MUTENAT. And then doing that.
Yeah, Stonelifter at least seems to be doing it right. I picture him locked in his room, away from the world of women, lifting giant boulders and crying.
Whaterulookinat Hellkell?
PFKAE, nothin’, just mindin’ my own business!
Hmmm, I wonder if these women also spit on Deano. I’ve heard that’s quite popular amongst the kids today.
I have been known to *stare over my bifocals in professorial manner* online in certain communication contexts.
Because, um, well, LOOK OVER THERE QUICK! *sneaks away*
I tend to not look people in the eye. I don’t care what sex they are, male or female, doesn’t matter. Studying other people’s faces unnerves me, not so much that it wigs me out but enough to make me uneasy. It’s like looking at portraits whose eyes move. But that’s just my own personal reaction; it doesn’t have a thing to do with anybody else.
There are two things about this which strike me as peculiar. The first is that Dr. Poon is right: looking down or to the side can be interpreted as a signal of submissiveness. It doesn’t have to be a signal of submissiveness but it can be: isn’t that, all things considered, what Deano wants? So why can’t Deano just interpret a downlooking woman as a woman who is overwhelmed with Deano’s awesomeness and walk away satisfied? What prevents Deano from doing that? Why can’t Deano take a lesson from Dr. Poon?
The second is: what alternative does Deano propose? Would he like it better if some rumbustious chick were to staple him right in the phiz with her gaze? Would that make Deano any happier? Somehow I doubt it…
Looks like the MGTOWers have as much talent for attracting bitchiness from women as Andrea Dworkin had a talent for attracting rape and abuse from men.
How do they do it ?
Having grown up in a small town, being friendly and frequently making eye contact is just a habit of mine. As some posters have already pointed out, it might not always be the wisest sort of behavior when living in a large or dangerous city (since it can attract the wrong kind of attention), but I didn’t get any trouble for the period of time that I lived in Cleveland.
Either way, I don’t see the whole eye contact business as a matter of being rude versus being polite; it’s either something you’re accustomed to doing or something you aren’t, and as long as you aren’t heckling anybody there’s not really a wrong way to go about your own business in public. I don’t see what the big deal is for these guys…as MRA’s, is it on their agenda to support legislation enforcing perky, friendly eye contact at all times from females they pass on the streets? o_O
Reductio ad Andrea Dworkium. Luke123 wins!
*tweet!* Penalties called on luke123 for false equivalence and rape apologism! Fifteen yards, first down.
Everything female dominates their lives and dictates their behavior. Reactionaries.
Sorry, MGTOWers, for any perceived slight.
That is just the way my face goes, when I’m thinking the thoughts, in my head, about my complicated life, which, most likely, has very little to do with you.
If we are acquaintances, please feel free to say something “perfectly harmless and friendly,” such as, “Hey, there,” if it is important to your self-esteem that I acknowledge your presence.
But please refrain from performing this maneuver more than once a day, because it annoys me to greet people I have already greeted; unless we’re going to proceed to an actual conversation more interesting than my previously mentioned thoughts.
I appreciate your understanding in this matter.
Hide
When I don’t value someone AT ALL, I know that one thing I really like to do is talk about the specific ways I will hold my body when I walk past them. I mean, THAT will CERTAINLY show how very LITTLE I care about that person.
I think Deano is expecting something like this because he’s just so super awesomely Going His Own Way that all the wymynz want to steal his man-seed and money.
I personally look down because if I make eye contact there’s a reasonable chance it might end in someone hitting on me and I am so over that. :(
Dworkins rape stories don’t stand up to scrutany though.
Do you know about the theory that she secretly got off on rape fetish fantasies but was so conflicted about it that she somehow convinced herself in her own mind that it all really happened to her ?
Even Stoltenberg didn’t believe her anymore in the end.
I can make eye contact. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. More often than not I don’t. Why? Because a lot of people, men especially, feel it’s an invitation to do more than look. Just this morning, I was heading out on my run. I made eye contact with a neighbor, who I had not yet spoken to. I was starting to jog to warm up, and in spite of my clearly being busy, decided to yell something very, very lewd at me, and make kissing sounds. I have plenty of other anecdotes where I made eye contact- and it was no come hither gaze- and I got unwanted attention.
But you know what will definitely not make me make eye contact with you? Creepazoid behavior like making big pointing gestures at where I’m looking instead of your creepy ass.
cynickal:
$MONEY$
Andrea Dworkin was weird. Therefore, feminism is bad.
You would think that these MGTOWers would relish the fact that women don’t make eye contact with them, rather than disparage women for it. After all, if women don’t make eye contact with them, they won’t then feel a need to have to interact at all with women and can quite blissfully continue to GTOW.
In a word, yes. When they say “smile!” on the street, we’d have to, because gawd forbid we be having anything other than pleasing some random dude going on in our headspaces.
“Andrea Dworkin was weird. Therefore, feminism is bad.”
Feminism name is badly tainted by some truly disturbed figures, who have not been massively and publicly denounced.
There a reason why someone who doesn’t want to be associated with the wrong things would call his movement ‘National Socialism’, for example.
The last sentence should read ‘would not call his movement…’
Double negatives… :-/
Hey gang, did you know that famed MRA Warren Farrell has written articles about why sexually touching your children is a good idea? Just thought I’d let you know!
Bee, seriously? Gross!!
YMMV, luke123. If you wish to disregard the many times in Andrea Dworkin’s earlier life in which she was raped, because allegedly later in life, while having health problems, she mistakenly believed that she’d been assaulted… you are free to. But that would make you a smug asshole. And you’d still be making a false equivalence with her and the MGTW’ers.
And Godwin’s to boot! You’re on a roll, luke!
Honestly, I don’t even get what these guys are bitching about. Women won’t make eye contact? This is a tragedy? Huh? I mean, if they were bitching about not getting poon after fixing the hairdryer or whatnot, I could at least sort of relate in that it sucks to not get sex when you were hoping for sex. But I seriously don’t get why they need to make a federal case out of a lack of eye contact.
“I like to point at the spot they’re staring at as I walk past – as if I have some special powers to direct their gaze.”
… That’s like waving at someone and, when they respond in kind, thinking you have the power to control their arm.
The only time this has ever happened to me was that one time I stalked that girl for a few weeks. The sneers I got from the other girls when they figured out what was going on told me right quick that I was not doing the right things to get positive female attention. Luckily by the time we got to high school most of the girls seem to have forgotten about it.
Snowy: Unfortunately, yes.
Or, more accurately, when he was interviewed for an article about incest, he talked about why parents touching their children sexually is often good, and was writing a book about the same.
Not that it matters to this conversation, of course. I just thought we were sharing juicy tidbits about gender-issues writers.
Wow. As if I wasn’t paranoid enough about dealing with people.
I think some people need realize that not everyone deals with interaction with strangers and acquaintances in the same manner. Some people are more shy than others, myself very much included in this, and making eye contact with someone who isn’t a friend is really difficult to do for me. Even if I really want to talk to and interact with someone, it can take awhile to even work up the nerve to smile or say hi, especially when I’m alone. And it’s not just with guys, it’s EVERYONE. It has nothing to do with being submissive or any other bull crap or thinking someone is out to get me. I, as well as some others I know, sometimes just have a hard time interacting with those we don’t know… I’m not going to go to therapy to change it either… I’m fine the way I am and I don’t live to feed anyone else’s ego… / rant…
First time commenting here. I read lots though :)
Oh GROSS! Pass the brainbleach please.
Why, thanks, Bee, and yes, I had read about that a while back. But why are MRAs not massively and publicly denouncing him as the truly disturbed figure that he is instead of massively and publicly promoting his works?
“But why are MRAs not massively and publicly denouncing him as the truly disturbed figure that he is instead of massively and publicly promoting his works?”
Because he’s their hero!
See? That totally burns my buns! I mean I go and fix my female friends hair dryer and she totally doesn’t put out! And by “fix” I mean “break beyond all possible hope of reparing” because I’m pretty inept at anything beyond the most basic ‘Guyvering of things.
And by “female friends” I mean “I have no female friends because I keep breaking their stuff and expecting sex”
What were we talking about anyway?
Wait… really? Warren Farrell? He always seemed like one of the vaguely sane ones…
First sensible thing you’ve said in this thread, luke! Now why is he their hero? Could be that parent-child incest is a terrific way of exploiting an unequal relationship and asserting control. For guys who see their children as possessions to be used, rather than as human beings with rights, that’s magic. Ergo, Warren Farrell, MRA hero.
“Vaguely” sane being the operative word, ozy. :(
Because wanting the sexes to be treated as equals is exactly the same as willfully murdering over 11 million people.
@mediumdave
Maybe you should ask the catholics. They seem have a lot of experience in that area.
Oh, ha ha. Deflection, five yards.
Be serious or don’t bother, luke.
Yes, that much is obvious. Funny, though, that they blame feminists for society’s suspicion of men who are/want to be in close contact with/vicinity of children, when it’s one of their very own heroes that advocates indulging in the behaviour for which men tend to come under such unwarranted scrutiny.
Hey. Hey guys. I have something completely off topic to tell you. I just wrote the first part of my Magyc fanfiction! =D
http://sardoodledum.livejournal.com/6457.html
Also, it has taken me a long time and a lot of effort to learn how to make appropriate eye contact. I’m still working on it, really…
Looks like French presidential candidate Strauss-Kahn was set up by political rivals. The rape allegation was a fabrication. The “victim” had already used a fabricated rape allegation in the past for personal gain:
“Prosecutors said the woman admitted lying in her application for asylum in the United States and that she had been a victim of a gang rape, providing details of that attack. She cried when she first told prosecutors about the rape but in a subsequent interview, she admitted the gang rape never occurred. She said the fabricated account on the asylum application was made with the assistance of a man who “provided her with a cassette recording of the facts” so that she could memorize them.”
The false accuser also had numerous bank deposits into a hidden account, and numerous phone calls using two secret cell phones, just before the false accusation.
The evidence of a political set-up is mounting.
Feminists have made rape into such a one-sided issue that a man accuse of rape is ruined for life, even if it is later shown that it was a set up. The false accuser will certainly never be prosecuted, and in all likelihood will continue to make a living off of this false accusation for years to come.
So, what are the odds that Christine Lagarde will gracefully step down and allow DSK back into the IMF? She has already begun implementing her feminist agenda of tying IMF bank loans to compliance with the feminist agenda of gender dominance. Only in a gelded world can the head of the IMF publicly blame the world financial meltdown on masculinity:
“Founding fathers … Founding fathers not mothers, notice. Regrettably there was no woman at the table at the time”.
Can you imagine a man who blames women for the “Great Recession” elected to head the IMF, with a bigoted sentence like this:
“The world can no longer afford expensive entitlement programs for women … for women, not men, notice: 73% of all Medicare/Medicaid dollars are spent on female beneficiaries, while the majority of contributions are made by men.”
It sounds to me like they’re not talking here about the random-person-on-the-street thing, where avoiding eye contact seems relatively reasonable. Especially in large cities. I simply CANNOT make eye contact with every person I pass while walking from the train to work because there are too many of them!
I do generally look up though if I’m not lost in my thoughts and if I see a familiar face I’ll nod in their direction, assuming they’re also looking at me at the same time. If they pass close enough by I’ll say “hi” and if I know them a little bit better than just a totally-in-passing acquaintance I might stop to exchange a little “how are you”. Sometimes I’m sure I miss people though, it’s totally not personal. I kinda think this is how most people operate around city spaces. I don’t really notice a lot of people walking along staring at the ground. I dunno where these guys live, maybe it’s just an odd local custom.
@Spearhafoc: Only because the feminist strategy relies on keeping men alive for as long as possible. The holocaust wouldn’t have happened if the Nazis could just divorce the Jews and drain their Jew banks for child support.
Only in MRA-land is “men make more money, but women are more likely to need state assistance!” proof of female privilege.
Mr. Zarat, what on earth does that have to do with anything?
Furthermore, I don’t really believe what you’re saying. Prove it, with citations.
Second, even if it were true, one instance of false allegation don’t prove a trend. Feminists aren’t trying to make rape a one sided issue. It is already a one sided issue! It is the rapists fault for raping. End of story.
False allegations aren’t rape and are a separate issue. That I don’t believe is actually endemic.
I know many people who have been sexually assaulted. Most of them don’t press charges. I don’t know anyone who has been falsely accused, with or without charges. I don’t know anyone who has done the false accusing.
Can you provide me with reliable stats on the number of false rape accusations?
@ Zarat:
Yeah, I read the same New York Times article you did. For one, it did not mention false allegations, just that it seems as though the accuser was up to some shady shit (mostly along the lines of drug dealing).
Newsflash: Women who are up to shady shit can still be raped. And it is still wrong.
I guess that would be the downside of a forum. I have a feeling we’d be just inundated with un-facts like that comment.
The DSK allegations looked fishy from the start, and come at a very convenient time for political opponents. And, yes that does make you wonder.
I have not seen evidence however of Ms. Lagarde having some anti-male agenda for the IMF. In fact there are some feminists who think that DSK would have had more women friendly policies then her, him being from the left and she being from the right.
And the connection between the two points is…?
He’s personal friends with French President Nicolas Sarkozy who has both defended him and aided his defense funds while offering him asylum in France, free of prosecution. How is that ruined for life?
Care to post this agenda? You seem to have it memorized. I’m sure Christine Lagarde’s appointment had nothing to do with her support for those feminist regimes in China and India
But thanks for the derail. Jeebus you are a complete moron.
Well yeah. He and his supporters are talking about still having him run as the Socialist Party’s candidate in the primary, so clearly his life is over.
I don’t know. If this is a political set-up, it was inexpertly masterminded. And there is, of course, all that inconvenient physical evidence to ignore. If she made it up, bad on her; she should be punished. On the other hand, if it’s another rape that won’t be prosecuted because it can’t be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, because she’s not a perfect person — well, it’s fucking disappointing, that’s all.
Here from the Reuters article:
They also discovered the woman made a phone call to a jailed man within a day of her encounter with Strauss-Kahn in which she discussed the possible benefits of pursuing the charges against him, the paper said.
The conversation was recorded. The man was among a number of people who had made multiple cash deposits, totaling around $100,000, into the woman’s bank account over the last two years, The New York Times said.
The woman initially said Strauss-Kahn assaulted her and she then cowered in the hallway outside his room until he left and she felt safe to seek help. Now, prosecutors say, she admits she cleaned a nearby room and then returned to Strauss-Kahn’s suite to start cleaning before reporting the incident.
So knowing the above, the following scenario looks most likely:
Aware of his reputation, her criminal friend conspired with her to have her seduce DSK and then press charges against him. She waited until he left to make it look like he fled.
Oh, and Sarah: I love your story! Between you and Pez (and David, of course — sorry, David!), my summer reading’s set!
And again — I am in love with Ami’s cards, from which all amusement flows.
Rawr xD
I too have a lot of difficulty looking ppl in the eyes :\ Not even strangers (w/ guy strangers I tend not to do it b/c if they’re alrdy looking at me, and I look at their eyes, they almost ALWAYS sidle up to me to hit on me -_- and besides, i hate making eye contact -_-) w/ ppl I know too :\ I dunno why.. it’s not me trying to be rude.. I just find it v… difficult to llook at ppl in the eyes or face.. I generally stare around their facial area so I dun come off as being weird or nething.. but if I’m not looking at somebody it doesn’t mean I’m not listening :\ in fact it’s often easier for me to listen if I’m not making eye contact :| I dunno why this is :(
Also I think a lot of that is in their heads :\ Sometimes I wonder if there’s a lot of low-self-esteem going on w/ some of these ppl and they’re reading everybody’s body language as being hostile :\ I know that *I* do this a lot :( therapy has helped me a lot in this respect, as have the reassurance of my friends, but I’m always sure that ppl are going ot dislike me at the drop of a hat :\ cuz I have big trust issues (ppl who know my past history know why) and I’m always sure that I’m gonna say something wrong, do something wrong.. and I’m always reading ppl’s expressions and tone and b/c of my self-esteem issues and fears, I’m also often reading it wrong :\ If somebody doesn’t smile, or suddenly stops smiling, or is generally happy, but isn’t,… I start panicking.. omg… did I say something wrong? Do something wrong? Am I about to lose a friend? Are they going to turn on me? Am I not safe nemore? (in a book about EDs I have, a woman who was abused as a child expresses similar views, and how that related to her having an ED to try to get some control cuz she was always worried she had none, that everybody else had the control cuz she was 1 wrong word away from being “not okay” w/ them)
And of course, usually it has nothing to do w/ me :\ Ppl have bad days, or they just didn’t smile, or they didn’t feel like being super excited, or they’re busy, or worried, or they have something on their mind, something happened I didn’t know about… or that’s just how they are… tehre’s a billion different reasons… but b/c I’m scared and worried and their friendship is important to me, I panic.. and then I MAKE IT ALL ABOUT MYSELF (essentially) where every thing that must be up about them has to be hinged on me, something I did, something I said, or didn’t say, or shoudl have said :\ and then things tend to go downhill from there.. and what USED to happen when I was a lot younger, was that quickly, I’d end up ending the friendship, just b/c I’d be so scared, and it was safer to not have nebody have the CHANCE to betray me or hurt me :\ Things became v all or nothing :\ Either I felt I was “okay” in their eyes and I felt safe and etc, or they were a danger to me, that I was imperfect in their eyes, that I was “flawed” and soon they would realize what a bad person I was, and then when I dun expect it they’ll hurt me…
and once that ball starts rolling (besides that sometimes it would make ME freak out and I’d start apologizing ALL the time for things I hadn’t done, and begging them to forgive me, then starting to not trust what they said.. or thinking I just made myself look pathetic so therefore I made myself MORE flawed… digging the hole basically :\ ) it usually ends at me just cutting them out of my life in order to feel safe :\
Luckily I’m in a much better place (tho I still do get like that sometimes, but my friends know and they help reassure me :] and I’m starting to trust ppl more and have more confidence.. the confidence thing helps a LOT, cuz you start realizing that you ARE a worthwhile person and you’re not living on the edge of a string w/ everybody ready to hate you)
but when I read some of the stuff from guys like this it rly feels familiar to me and similar :\ That they feel like they’re living on the edge with every person they interact w/, who are all rdy to turn on them on a dime, and they’re over-analyzing every facial reaction, every tone in their voice, trying to see when the person realizes what a pathetic person they are :\ (I’m not saying they ARE pathetic ppl, I’m saying how they feel.. that they’re worried ppl will KNOW, that a woman is ready to sneer at them and see a pathetic wretch… :\ ) It’s like a lot of these guys and the whole “alpha/beta/omega” thing.. they’ve alrdy put themselves down in self-esteem, they’re SURE they’re a beta/omega and that at ANY MOMENT some woman is going to realize that.. and they won’t be safe, they won’t be okay :\
And like.. therapy helps.. and confidence… and good friends :] and slowly you begin to realize that most of the world isn’t focused on you, and ppl have their own lives, and their own feelings, and sometimes they’re not focused on you at all when they seem suddenly unhappy or stressed :\ not everything is about you :\
Just once, I would like to see a case show up in the news where the default MRA position is not ‘she’s lying’ or ‘she was asking for it.’ I would like to see MRAs condemn rape, rapists and people who defend the idea that anyone other than a rapist is responsible for rape.
Tell you what, I’ll write up a condemnation of Dworkin when you write up a condemnation of rape.
Also.. kwestchun… should I wear wings to the trans march? :D
When men ever become incapable of staredown and sneering, then they might have room to talk. Otherwise, we really can’t tell women what to do, now can we.
So, I have a desire to keep myself around until I can dispose of myself?
In what alternate universe does anything in that sentence make sense?
Rape is bad, when it actually is rape.
Rape is rape when actual violence or force is used.
When a women has sex and decides after the fact that she didn’t like it very much, it’s not rape.
They also discovered the woman made a phone call to a jailed man within a day of her encounter with Strauss-Kahn in which she discussed the possible benefits of pursuing the charges against him, the paper said.
Were I the victim of such an assault, and were my attacker a person of importance, I, too, would want to weigh the pros and cons of pressing charges with a friend.
The money deposited into her account? Yeah, that’s totally shady, but is certainly not evidence of some sort of scheme to make DSK look bad. What, they magically knew ahead of time that DSK would stay at the hotel where this woman worked, that he’d be leaving when she was on shift, that her shift would have him cleaning his room, that she would succeed in seducing him and then be able to spin it as rape? Jesus, if you want to get DSK caught in a sex scandal, wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just pay a few prostitutes to stage something?
My theory is that the money in her account is probably from drug sales. It’s not beyond the scope of my imagination to think that maybe hotel cleaning people sometimes might sell drugs to their clientele. But raping a drug dealer is still wrong.
Ami:
YES! Wings all the way!
I, too, am pro wings!
How does luke123 tell the difference between a woman who was “really” raped and a woman who just felt like spending six hours at the hospital getting questioned and having a rape kit done because she regretted having sex with a guy, I wonder?