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Kate Beaton confuses the Reddit Men’s Rightsers

 

From Hark, a vagrant. I photoshopped a little.

Hark, a vagrant, as I may have noted many times already, is pretty much the most hilarious comic in the world at the moment.  So recently the comic’s creator Kate Beaton got together with some of her cartoonist pals and did a bunch of cartoons featuring a gang of superheroines called the “STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS.”

Someone linked to them in Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit. Take a look at the comments.  The cartoons seem to have, well, confused the Men’s Rightsers just a little bit.

 

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Posted on June 29, 2011, in feminism, funny, MRA, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 203 Comments.

  1. Victoria von Syrus

    His therapist is probably onto something….

  2. Ion is always so in a rush to prove to everybody he’s not fooled and how smart he is (and has no sense of humour xD ) xD

    I honestly wasn’t thinking of ‘proving’ anything. I thought it was pretty obvious, I mean someone called “Feminist Mai” shows up out of nowhere with an angry rant? Right after Victoria’s challenge to NWO about writing a feminist satire?

    As for ‘no sense of humour’, eh, it’s subjective. If you mean the brand of ‘humour’ employed by yourself, Bee, Kirby and a few other ‘regulars’ here, I would agree.

  3. @Ion, boring and passive aggressive does not equal nice. Who gets labeled as a “bad boy” vs a “normal guy” is usually far more about social stereotypes than about an evaluation of unethical or cruel behaviors.

  4. I never used the word “nice”. I said “cheerful, normal guy” versus “brooding asshole”. I don’t know about social stereotypes, those seem pretty self-explanatory to me…

  5. I find it amusing that most of the ppl helping MRAL were straight men and queer women, but the conclusion is of course that it’s all about hetero attraction xD

    Also that he’s jealous of MRAL XDDD (mind you he’s been jealous of the attn I get too xD so this could be par for the course XD)

    @David but if MRAL gets therapy that means everybody will stop thinking he’s so smexy! XDD Like.. you.. and Pecunium.. and Kirby…xD I of course will always think he’s smexy XD

    Best. Theory. Evar. XD

  6. @Darksidecat actually it’s about a combination of dart board throws and Ami’s fickle feelings day to day xD Like right now.. you’re a bad boy XD Even tho you’re not a boy! Oh wait, now you’re a bad cucumber! xD

    Hmm… now I have an idea XD I think I’m gonna make a chart of Ami’s guyrarchy rankings XD Watch it be the most accurate thing evar XD

  7. Also that he’s jealous of MRAL XDDD (mind you he’s been jealous of the attn I get too xD so this could be par for the course XD)

    Ami, you’ve been uncharacteristically nasty lately (not to mention wrong on this account – only an insane person would be jealous of MRAL). I guess it really cheesed you off that I uncovered your obvious sockpuppet before you could have fun with it. But the “all y’all haterz r just jealous” line is weak even for you. XD XD

  8. o_O i’ve pointed out your jealousy before XD this isn’t the first time you’ve been this way o_O

    I am amused you’re using the symbol of teh Ami tho XD

  9. I love the cookie one.

    Lawl @ MRAs’ pathetic attempt at “understanding” the material.

  10. Whenever a troll snaps they seem to break into the XDs thinking it bugs ppl as much as it bugs them XD MRAL did it.. NWO did it… now Ion xD Teh Rodeo Cat gets to all XD

  11. Hrm… I’ve eaten (finally -_- stupid compulsive exercising :( ) now I feel bad :\ You did mention that you didn’t “get” the humour here that much :\

    I didn’t mean for you to feel like somebody was being “nasty” to you :\ I was just amused :) (like I am now XD ) by your reactions, stuff about MRAL and the theory xD that’s all… :\ But I always feel bad when it seems like I’ve hurt someone… so I’m sorry :]

    *BIG HUGS* :D

  12. I wasn’t aware that a couple of mild comments equal me “snapping”… whatever makes you feel better, I guess. I’ll just leave you to your crazy, then, and back away slowly. From what I’ve seen, you don’t really need other people to keep yourself entertained anyway.
    XD XD :P

  13. o_O that was weird…

  14. @Ion, someone could be “cheerful” and “normal” (the latter term, btw, is all about matching certain social expectations) and be and asshole or be “brooding” and be a good person. Cheerful vs brooding, shy vs outgoing, tattooed vs non-tattooed, weird vs normal, smart vs not so smart-none of these things tell you whether a person is a bad person or a good person. They tell you something about a person’s character, and maybe you happen to like to spend time with cheerful rather than brooding people, but these traits do not tell you whether someone is a good or bad person.

  15. Posted before you put up the last comment. Don’t worry about it, on the scale of being flamed, your stuff is barely a blip. I was actually more amused than anything that you’d describe me as ‘jealous’ or ‘snapping’. It’s like being attacked by a puppy. :P

  16. darksidecat: So what you’re saying is that women are attracted to dark, brooding assholes only when they realize they’re actually good on the inside, and are repelled by cheerful normal guys when they know they’re really not so good? Not my experience, but to each his own. I guess my former roommate who slapped his girlfriend around, treated her like a servant and cheated on her multiple times was really a good guy on the inside. And the chubby guy who was in love with her but she completely ignored must’ve been some kind of monster. Women have such penetrating insight into men’s souls.

  17. @Ion, again, the brooding is disconnected from the bad behavior (abuse and cheating), and the chubbiness is disconnected from any good behavior (none in particular is mentioned). You are linking things that really have nothing to do with each other. Are you honestly trying to suggest that cheerful clean cut people do not commit abuse? Because that is flat out nonsense. People who look like this http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=610&q=goth&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&wrapid=tlif130943396769510&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi are not automatically more likely to be abusers than people who look like this http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=610&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=preppy&oq=preppy&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=undefined&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=58402l59928l0l8l7l0l1l1l0l207l894l1.4.1l6 If anything, the latter will be more likely to get away with abuse because they are treated with less suspicision by many.

  18. Yeah, Ion, darksidecat is right. Manners do not equal morals.

    You can be perfectly polite to someone in person and arrange their murder behind their back. (There was a lawyer in my hometown who did this – upstanding citizen, pillar of the community, great networker, seemingly nice guy. He hired a hitman to murder his wife.) You can be rude and gruff to someone and later give them money to pay for their cancer treatment.

    It’s also possible to be a rude person as well as a bad person, but the connection is incidental, not causal.

    Of course, it’s great if you can be polite in person as well as moral in your actions, but not everyone has the same social capacities. If you have to pick only one, go with the second.

    Call it the one good thing I learned in Catholic school. XD

  19. Also abusers and psychopaths are often very charming. From Jon Ronson’s The Psychopath Test:

    “I don’t know. Maybe it is because I really want people to like me. So I learn how to please people. I never disagree with anyone. I make them feel good so they like me.”
    “Isn’t that a weakness?” I finally said. “Your desperate desire to have people like you. Isn’t that a weakness?”
    “Ah no!” Toto laughed. He animatedly waved his finger at me. “It’s not a weakness at all!”
    “Why?” I asked.
    “I’ll tell you why!” He smiled, winked conspiratorially, and said: “If people like you, you can manipulate them to do whatever you want them to do!”

  20. Feminist Mai almost got me, nicely done. I was wondering if we’d been reading the same site for a minute.

    I really don’t think MRAL qualifies as a dark and brooding bad boy that women are lining up to fix. He got good advice that just about anyone with his problems would get here until he proved himself to be a violent squirt.

  21. And the chubby guy who was in love with her but she completely ignored must’ve been some kind of monster

    Ah yes, these stories about Bitches Who Love Jerks always have the shy, unconventional hero she unfairly shuns because, you know, women!

    Why was the chubby guy in love with her? I mean, she’s a fucked-up broad who has a thing for psychopaths, right? Why wasn’t he in love with the chubby girl who he hangs around with and thinks of as ‘just a friend’? Oh, right: because people you want to fuck ought to have lower standards for sexual partners than you do. /eyeroll

  22. Lets see… goth boys are broody. Most of the one’s I’ve met aren’t assholes (perhaps a bit overwrought and full of themselves, but most of them were also pretty young, so).

    Frat boys are usually cheerful. A lot of the one’s I’ve met are assholes. They are pretty young too, but oddly enough a large number of them seem to keep that youthful trait, while the goth types get less broody.

  23. I like the detail-lite anecdote as evidence that an experience shared by two men and one woman is proof of How Life Is. I guess as long as we’re doing that, let me share that, in my experience, self-proclaimed nice guys, and guys who hang around waiting for the implosion of a relationship so that they can get a little something afterwards usually aren’t all that nice, and can even be downright nasty. The only time I was ever stalked was by a “nice guy.”

    So, it makes me a little curious about the details about these people you’re using as an example. The chubby guy was chubby and in love with your roommate’s girlfriend, but was he also this guy? And while I can’t guess as to the girlfriend’s mindset, I will point out that guys, too, fall in love with cruel people who cheat on them. The myth that this is a key female trait seems to overrely on our society’s patience for listening to heartsick self-appointed Nice Guys.

    All that aside, I’m happy to hear that Ion specifically dislikes my sense of humor. Phew! The Bee’s still got it! Ha cha cha cha!

  24. Well, Bee, I’m think you’re g-damned hilarious. But your humor is like mine. So.

  25. I’ve lost count of how many “cheerful” people I’ve met who’ve turned out to be total fakes. They usually have deep emotional problems that they’re hiding, or they’ve gotten sucked into the cult of Positive Thinking. I’d much rather deal with grouchy people; at least they’re less likely to be in denial about anything. Plus, if they turn out to be decent folks I’m pleasantly surprised, and if they’re bona fide assholes I can write them off without feeling like I’ve been hoodwinked.

  26. Thanks, filetofswedishfish! Right back atcha! We can both be proud that Ion just don’t get us. That’s gotta be a good thing.

  27. Kes, I like: http://www.gabbysplayhouse.com/?p=1457

    On female heroes, this is a great deconstruction of the costumes: http://rosalarian.tumblr.com/post/2325861377/dressed-to-kill
    (I think it’s already been posted here)

  28. Hellkell: seconded that MRAL is not “dark and brooding bad boy” as I understood it (though I supposed that could be my age). DBBBs=do not talk about all their problems in great detail. They LOOM and GLOOM and are MYSTERIOUS and BROODING (NOT talking) (trying to avoid broody chicken joke here).

    The whole emo “let me talk about all my problems” masculinity where angsty younger men (edited ‘boys’ out for ageism on my part) talk about all their problems–NOT what I see as DBBB.

    Ami, do we need a DBBB card????????????

    This game is INFECTIOUS!

  29. Oh, classic DBBB: Heathcliffe.

  30. Heathcliffe is the template from which other DBBBs are based!

  31. Don’t forget Mr Darcy

  32. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byronic_hero

    The Byronic hero. “mad, bad, and dangerous to know”

    The Byronic hero typically exhibits several of the following traits:
    Cunning and able to adapt
    Cynical
    Disrespectful of rank and privilege
    Emotionally conflicted, bipolar, or moody
    Having a distaste for social institutions and norms
    Having a troubled past or suffering from an unnamed crime
    Intelligent and perceptive
    Jaded, world-weary
    Mysterious, magnetic and charismatic
    Seductive and sexually attractive
    Self-critical and introspective
    Self-destructive
    Socially and sexually dominant
    Sophisticated and educated
    Struggling with integrity
    Treated as an exile, outcast, or outlaw

  33. Wow, that sounds like Dr. House…

    In which case, I totally admit it, I want bad boys! They never exist in real life, but I have a pretty good nice guy :D

    I think a dealbreaker is the smart thing. Coming on and whinging about how women own 65% of wealth and only fuck 10% of men and are general lying, conniving bitches, is not a good way to attract women. This is not the same as being a little bit rude but also intelligent, charming and handsome.

  34. Here’s some more flipside on the subject: Heroes treated like Heroines

  35. ION: My abusive partner was cheerful, chubby, nerdy and very likable. He wasn’t broody or “bad,” at any point, yet he still almost killed me. And guess what, he wasn’t at all abusive at the start – Funny thing, abusers don’t start out abusing you! It’s almost like you fall in love with someone who treats you well, and then the abuse creeps in, leaving you having to deal with strong feelings and the memory of when things were good… Oh wait, us crazy bitches just don’t know what’s good for us. Sigh.

  36. @Hellkell ty :3 Too bad it got scrolled over to the other screen xD

    @Bee I always love it when trolls go all weird about our humour xD Personally I lurve our humour! :3

    I’m always a little wondering what these anecdotes are supposed to tell us o_O That WE’RE bad ppl? xD That other ppl are bad ppl and we should shout at them? XD That are part of the female hive mind we should send telepathic txt msgs to the other hot women in the world telling them to date the “correct” ppl? xD (I also think sometimes outside of the anecdotes there’s a lot of projected schadenfreude going on too, where ppl ASSUME that somebody’s b/f/g/f must be a horrible person/bitch and that they’re a “bad boy/girl” simply b/c it’s easier to cast yourself in the role of the loveable loser, than just another person in the great dating history of the universe xD )

    Personally, if I like bad boys, I guess Kirbywarp is a bad boy xD Which he so ttlly is xD (also shouldn’t we all be falling in love w/ NWO or the other dishonest/verbally abusive/etc/etc trolls? xD and shouldn’t they all be falling in love w/ me? XD )

    I think I’ll stick w/ bad cucumbers and thug parsnips… xD

  37. Yay Zhinxy is here! :D

    *hugs Zhinxy* :3 also *big big big comforting hugs* :(

    Zhinxy is awesome tho, she’s mah BFF :3

  38. Do I want to see a thug parsnip Magyc card? I fear for my sanity. Some concepts should remain concepts.

  39. Ah yes, these stories about Bitches Who Love Jerks always have the shy, unconventional hero she unfairly shuns because, you know, women!

    Bit hostile there. Did I hit too close to home? In my experience, women who repeatedly fall for assholes and ignore good guys really, really hate when someone points it out.

    Why was the chubby guy in love with her? I mean, she’s a fucked-up broad who has a thing for psychopaths, right?

    Because she was otherwise beautiful, smart, and fun to hang out with. Even I liked her. She just had a thing for strong, dominant guys (which is what this guy appeared to be at first, before he turned into an aggressive bully). Neither chubby guy nor I ever did anything to undermine the relationship though. I did talk to the boyfriend a few times about his behaviour and he basically said it was none of my business and I should stay out of it. They eventually broke up after he started hitting her.

    Why wasn’t he in love with the chubby girl who he hangs around with and thinks of as ‘just a friend’?

    Um… because there wasn’t one? This is not a hypothetical case you know. But FYI, my experience with the so-called ‘chubby girl’ was that her standards are equal or even higher than those of the ‘hot girl’ because she’s looking for someone to raise her social standing. So it might not have helped…

    Oh, right: because people you want to fuck ought to have lower standards for sexual partners than you do. /eyeroll

    Ok, that just came out of nowhere… too bad a great majority of the women I’ve wanted to fuck (and did) would be considered far from conventionally attractive.

    And I’m really tired of people trotting out that terrible xkcd comic. I like to respond with this. :P

  40. Thanks, filetofswedishfish! Right back atcha! We can both be proud that Ion just don’t get us. That’s gotta be a good thing.

    I do. There’s not much to ‘get’. But what there is, is childish and obnoxious. But it pretty much fits with that I’ve seen of the infantilization of Americans in general – from using words like ‘veggies’ or ‘hubby’ among adults, to ‘lolcat speak’ to trying way too hard to be ‘cute’. As I said before, it’s like the Flanders family on meth. Bleah.

  41. Victoria von Syrus

    I retract what I said earlier about Ion. Apparently, all I did was remind him that he needed to troll harder.

  42. @Victoria von Syrus basically xD he’s touchy today xD (watch)

  43. And I’m really tired of people trotting out that terrible xkcd comic.

    Wow. If you’re sick of that comic, just IMAGINE how sick I am of people saying shit like women are attracted to dark, brooding assholes, and are repelled by cheerful normal guys?

    Cuz 1. It’s largely not true, and 2. It’s true to the same extent that men are also attracted to assholes. And 3. It’s a myth created largely to make men with few redeeming qualities feel better about not being able to bed the hottest women they know, with the side benefits of (a) putting all women as a group on the defensive, and (b) making all women as a group look like the evil alien bitches men with few redeeming qualities would like to pretend they are.

  44. But it pretty much fits with that I’ve seen of the infantilization of Americans in general – from using words like ‘veggies’ or ‘hubby’ among adults, to ‘lolcat speak’ to trying way too hard to be ‘cute’.

    Okily dokily, Ion. Wev.

  45. ” It’s almost like you fall in love with someone who treats you well, and then the abuse creeps in, leaving you having to deal with strong feelings and the memory of when things were good…”

    My ex and I were really good friends, like soulmates, and he was widely considered as a really nice guy. Like, he’s funny and popular and he’s not conventionally good looking. He justified his treatment of me because I dated another guy over him awhile before.

    There was never serious abuse imo, but he did insult me a lot, especially quietly in public when other people were there. It was always in public, like he could show off to me that he was untouchable because people liked him, including my friends. They never knew the extent because it was all whispered or sneaking pinches and scratches. Also sometimes I used to say something, try and be funny or whatever, and he would give me this incredulous look and go “What the hell are you talking about? Are you STUPID?” and I would be less hurt than embarrassed in front of other people.

    We’re not friends now, but the last time I saw him at a party, after we hadn’t spoken for years, we spent the entire night talking and he was exactly like he had been when we were friends. I still feel like we have a ‘connection’ or something that I don’t want :(

  46. Wait, “veggies” is a sign the world is going to hell?

  47. Awfully widespread for just a myth, though isn’t it? I especially liked the song lyrics section.

    Should we make a side-by-side list of the “nice guy” characters and the “bad boys with a dark side” and see which of them have more female fans swooning? I wonder how that would turn out.

  48. :( *big huge supportive hugs to Magical Laura* :\

  49. Victoria von Syrus

    Since when is TV Tropes a credible source?

  50. Oh btw, if ppl didn’t read it yet (cuz I just read it and I need to promote it xD )

    http://johnnypez9.blogspot.com/2011/06/out-of-night.html

    Pez has his 3rd Magyc short story out and it’s hilarious xD (and fun! :D )

    I esp like the exchange between Julia and the flight leader XD “your game is off” XD

    Can’t wait for more cameos :D (i’m curious about ppl’s interpretations of David, I find his card the most fascinating, maybe cuz it was the one that actually gave me the idea on how to shape the world xD )

  51. Oh and I just realized, David’s the ultimate bad boy xD

  52. Hmm. Since TV Tropes now represent reality, I guess MRA’s ought to stop bitching about the Incompetent Man/Competent Woman thing in sitcoms. After all, if it’s on TV it must be true.

  53. Ion, you’re aware that lots of men are attracted to women who are jerky awful assholes? (I mean, Megan Fox is apparently a bit of a snooty bitch, and that doesn’t stop a lot of guys (and probably even some lesbians) from obsessing over her.) Also, plenty of gay men are attracted to broody dickbags.

    No demographic group has a monopoly on poor romantic/sexual judgement.

  54. I live in the UK (Ion’s in Scotland right?). I didn’t think saying ‘veggies’ was American =/

    Thankyou for hugs Ami, many back to you :)

  55. David, I actually think Megan Fox is pretty cool. I loved the way she talked really frankly about what a sexist asshole Michael Bay was to her, and she has said some really important stuff about bodily autonomy.

  56. Wow, @Ion is going for the old “WAAAH GIRLS- EVEN FUGLY GIRLSS!! ONLY LIKE JERKS” complaint. That’s the best he’s got? Really?

    What @Bee said is accurate, that particular whinge is just garbage ‘nice guys’ use to make themselves feel better about women being able to see through their false “nice” exterior.

    I have known lots of genuinely nice guys who have female partners. My anecdotal evidence trumps Ion’s TVtropes page.

    TVtropes….. LOL!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEJQqUN2buE

    ….MRAs posting Kate Beaton, meanwhile, is HILARIOUS!

  57. But she walked right past that poor boy with the flower!

    Yeah, maybe she was as bad example.

  58. Ion: Awfully widespread for just a myth, though isn’t it? Likes Scots are all cheap? Or back men have huge penes? Or Jews are all moneygrubbing?

    I mean those are all widespread beliefs, so they must be true.

  59. new card! :D

    @Laura yeah o_o I have SO many friends in the UK and Australia xD and they all talk pretty much the same.. xD

  60. Ion, you’re aware that lots of men are attracted to women who are jerky awful assholes? (I mean, Megan Fox is apparently a bit of a snooty bitch, and that doesn’t stop a lot of guys (and probably even some lesbians) from obsessing over her.) Also, plenty of gay men are attracted to broody dickbags.

    No demographic group has a monopoly on poor romantic/sexual judgement.

    True, but according to commenters here, that just doesn’t happen to women! And if it does, it’s because the asshole actually has a heart of gold. And nice guys are always monsters on the inside. Or something.

    Trollin’ MRAs: wow, hostile much? did I hit a nerve? I’ll take a guess and say you weren’t invited to many parties…

  61. Not all fantasy is aspirational. I love reading Stephen Kind novels but I wouldn’t want to live there. Why would romance-based media be any different?

  62. Ion: Awfully widespread for just a myth, though isn’t it? Likes Scots are all cheap? Or back men have huge penes? Or Jews are all moneygrubbing?

    I mean those are all widespread beliefs, so they must be true.

    Well, they had to start from something, didn’t they? Why do some stereotypes endure and spread but not others? Couldn’t there be a grain of truth in them?

  63. And I’m really tired of people trotting out that terrible xkcd comic. I like to respond with this.

    OMG, isn’t that the Onion article that big thinker Marky Mark took as absolutely serious?

  64. Victoria von Syrus

    When I played Dragon Age II, I had my PC get into a relationship with Anders, which would be about the worst idea ever in real life – but it’s kind of cool in a video game. ‘Cause there’s a difference between fantasy and reality. In fantasy, people like to think they are so unabashedly awesome and caring and powerful that they can magically heal people’s issues and angst – like the male fantasy of rescuing a damsel in distress and then having her love you forevers. In reality, someone usually ends up in the ER and someone else ends up in jail.

  65. Yes, Ion, it is true that all widespread stereotypes have a grain of truth to them. Like the one that Asian women have sideways vaginas? Partially true. They are actually at a 45 degree angle.

  66. Pam: well, it’s at least as serious as the xkcd comic, isn’t it? Funny how feminists and white-knights always pull out the comic, though, but never talk about the article except to dismiss it.

    (sorry about the multiple posts, a lot of people keep replying to this stuff.)

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