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Arms and the Men's Rights Movement

Democracy is not a First-Person Shooter

Good news, ladies and manginas: Apparently some MRAs don’t think it’s time to go out and start shooting people. At least not quite yet.

Some background: In recent days numerous MRAs have taken up the cause of a man named Thomas Ball – who burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. Ferdinand Bardamu of In Male Fide has declared him “a martyr for the cause of men’s rights, a casualty of feminism’s stripping one half of the population of their humanity.”

Before killing himself, Ball wrote a long manifesto outlining his grievances and suggesting that the time had come for men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses,” describing  the inhabitants of such buildings as “[c]ollaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War … So burn them out. “ (He offered specific advice on how best to do this, including tips on how to select the proper bottles to use for Molotov cocktails.)

All this has inspired some in the MRA to start talking ominously about violence. On The Spearhead, W.F. Price has responded to this talk with a piece suggesting that the time isn’t quite right for the MRAs of the world to take up armed struggle. Not just yet, anyway. As he puts it:

It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. …

We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. … Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Obviously, the flip side of this argument for delay is a justification for killing people if these “grievances” aren’t dealt with in the way that those in the MRA would like. Price’s reference to the American Revolution is an interesting one, because of course the central issue of that struggle was, you know, taxation without representation. The colonists couldn’t vote out the king if they didn’t like his policies. In case anyone has forgotten: we actually do have the vote now, which was kind of the whole point in the first place.

Of course, many of Price’s readers are a bit more impatient than he is. In a comment that drew (last I checked) more than 40 upvotes and only two dissenting downvote, Taqman took issue with Price’s call to delay the armed struggle:

Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.

They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.

The ironically named Firepower, meanwhile, took a little swipe at Ball’s own actions, but didn’t challenge his advice for the rest of the men of the world:  

What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.

 Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.

Jean Valjean suggested that political action was pointless — due to all those damned women who vote:

No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.

Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.

Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) — you knew we were getting to him, right? — expressed his profound disappointment that more Spearheaders weren’t willing to embrace a violent solution:

Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too?

And he made the argument personal, explicitly denouncing, by name, the judge he claimed had “criminally abused” him with his rulings:

Judge [name redacted’s] life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. …

And, like Ball, he declared judges to be essentially treasonous:

These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.

There is more to Nolan’s comment(s) than that, but to get into it would require going down the rabbit-hole into his particular brand of crackpottery, which seems to involve him setting up his own courts to try judges he doesn’t like. (I frankly don’t understand his belief system and don’t care to.)

Now, it should be noted that a few Spearheaders actually objected to Nolan’s violent talk. But the last I checked, the comment I just quoted had more upvotes than downvotes. W.F. Price took more flak for suggesting men wait a little longer before taking up arms than Nolan did for, well, you saw what he wrote. That tells you a lot about The Spearhead, I think.

EDIT: Added quote from Ferdinand Bardamu; removed similar quote from The Spearhead.

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The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

darksidecat,

“My mother also hit me, emcee, and it was abuse. Your mother’s actions were also abuse. Ball’s actions were also abuse. Stop trying to normalize violence against children. The fact that abuse is sadly common does not make it okay.”

Repeating that does not make it so. I am grateful to my mother for what she did. She raised a better man than most. Actually, she raised several good men. Out of 20 of the guys I grew up with, there are 4 left – 3 raised by her. (Maybe if Anthony Weiner had been hit, he wouldn’t have turned out to be such a shit, you know?)

Why can’t you guys deal with the idea you’re a bunch of doctrinaire pussies, demanding the rest of us be like you because it means your nonsense goes unchallenged, whether it makes sense or not?

That admission would make life so much easier.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Jesus, Pec, you’re dumb:

I never said you called her pathetic – I said “it’s pathetic women support me”. Another lie.

Are you still claiming there’s no photo there? Another lie.

Like I said, it’s like a compulsion around here. You all are simply incapable of telling the truth.

Another one is not addressing the topics. C’mon, Pec, tell me there’s no photo on my blog again or admit you lied.

Somebody here is going to admit to being a liar – I came to win.

AndrewV
9 years ago

I would suggest you guys drop it at this point.

All I see is an argument. No discussion. No exchange of viewpoints. And the argument has degenerated to the “Is so” and “no you” stage.

I do not see how either side could even “agree to disagree” by now.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Crack… I didn’t poke around enough to figure out that your handle is a stage name too. My error. Then again, I’d didn’t pretend to know your background from your posts here. I never said anything about where you grew up, or what, “your world” was, or wasn’t like.

So, Mr. Dixon… you were in the Navy. What was your rate? Did you pull a 4 and out, or extend a bit. I mean this was the 80s, Reagan was spending money on the military like a sailor on leave. Lots of room in there.

But I understand, being in the service isn’t something everyone can hack. But since you are so proud of your hitch, using it to try and show people how tough, and manly you are with your time in the service (Snowy, dear, I’m a military vet from South Central, Los Angeles.) perhaps you’d care to share your exploits, tell us what deeds of personal valor you did.

You must have some, right? Because it’s part of the credentials you tied to wave in our faces…

Or not. I know lots of vets who posture. Who make veiled references to being in, and let the implications people have about it try to cover what was, for most people, esp. in peacetime, just a job; one that comes with room, board and clothing.

And before you get your knickers in a twist yes, I know that being on shipboard is a pain in the ass, and there are hazards that come, just from being in the Navy (since that’s what you did), but really, esp. in the early 80s, being a seaman wasn’t all that special; certainly not in the, “living where violence is common” dept.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Then again… when were you in the Navy?

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

o_O

He came to win… xD I’m amused XD

so he shows up, insults everybody… some ppl are v nice to him, even if he believes it’s misplaced… he insults everybody again… every person who tries to engage w/ him he responds w/ insults.. you’re an idiot, you’re stupid… or childish xD and you’re not addressing his points! which are… that we’re idiots, and can’t be engaged w/ xD

i think this is another troll that’s dancing in the end zone while everybody else is playing hockey xD

He’s in over the line… he’s not waiting..

xD

and yus I believe I will continue to destroy the world w/ my new age ttlly not related to tarot evil hate cards of Magyc doom xD

Pecunium
9 years ago

Dixon… I didn’t say anything about her being pathetic. I said you were, “pathetically grateful”

The pathetic modifies grateful, which is a quality of yours. This is the sort of things which makes me say you aren’t all that good with language.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@AndrewV yeah that’s what I see too xD it’s not like nebody’s going to convince nebody else to change their definition of abuse.. .also now it’s just everybody calling each other a liar xD

Pecunium
9 years ago

Dixon… I didn’t say it wasn’t there, I said I didn’t see it.

So, no, you can’t make me admit to something I didn’t say.

Now… how long were you in the Navy? What was your rate? How much sea-duty did you pull?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@The Crack Emcee:

“Somebody here is going to admit to being a liar – I came to win.”

You’ve already lost. I’ve been following along here, and this is the only stuff I’ve seen that is you making an actual point, and not violently leaping on other posters for not reading your mind after you communicate badly.

1) Thomas Ball’s daughter was not abused. You were hit consistantly as a child, and that certainly wasn’t abuse (and anyone who says otherwise is a liar), so therefore she wasn’t abused.
2) We are invested in “new age culture” as evidenced by mentioning yoga and creating magic cards.
3) We have no right to complain about feminist issues, because your wife killed three people and you fared badly during the ordeal.
4) One female author has come to the conclusion that men actually have it worse than wome, so therefore it is true.
5) Feminism only exists because men allow it, and since men are opressed by feminist policies, men will soon put an end to feminism.

So yeah.. To paraphrase yourself, “saying you weren’t abused doesn’t make it so.” Worse, saying that violence against children isn’t abuse it to normalize violence against children, which you seem to think is just dandy. Nobody here is “invested in new age culture,” and the yoga that some posters do probably has no more relevence to new agey woo than magic cards do. Playing the victim game does nothing to prove your point; sure, you went through terrible stuff with your wife, but to say that therefore women shouldn’t complain about systematic mistreatment in society is just plain retarded. A lot of women here have shared stories about being raped and or assaulted. Does this make them right, and make you wrong?

You can find individual women who think MRAs are exactly correct, and you can find men who think Feminism is a noble cause (I am one). So what? You can find people who swear up and down they’ve been abducted by aliens. Doesn’t make them right. We provide evidence for our claims, you provide bluster. Finally, in terms of feminism only existing because men allow it, citation woefully needed. If I say that the movement would have never started if men controlled its outcome, you would counter by saying that some men wanted women to have equal rights. This would play into your narrative without you ever having to prove it true in the first place, like how creationists say everything is evidence of a creator, though they never prove the existance of a creator in the first place. So first, prove your claim.

This conversation has gone downhill, with you making vauge statements, then tearing the throat out of posters who dain to disagree or contradict you. That’s not winning an argument, that’s getting wrapped up in a pointless debate about what was said, not what is.

@AndrewV and Ami:

Well, I can try, anyway. Consider this a last ditch effort to combat a troll. *shrug*

Pecunium
9 years ago

And what are the details of your wife again? She killed three people? When was this?

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

Dammit, now I”ve got “In the Navy” stuck in my head.

Pecunium
9 years ago

And was it your actual mother, or your foster mother who was beating you?

Pecunium
9 years ago

Speedlines, it could be worse. I’ve seen some that would be worse, and recently.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

In the MRAvy!

Since his condition is that he’s not leaving till he “wins” and I dun think nebody’s going to agree w/ his definition of “not abuse”.. I suspect this is going to end w/ him declaring victory or that he’s proven what dumb clods we are, and then flouncing xD

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Pec,

Crack… I didn’t poke around enough to figure out that your handle is a stage name too. My error.

Wow – the first concession on the entire thread and it’s between two vets. Gawd, I love people with integrity. Good job, Pec. You didn’t address saying I had no photo, but whatever. You’re trying.

As far as the rest, sorry, but you are the one hiding behind a handle – not me – so feeding you information that you want to possibly beat me over the head with would be silly. (Just like feminism!) I’ll take your concession as my trophy, thanks.

Dixon… I didn’t say anything about her being pathetic. I said you were, “pathetically grateful”

Really? Ann Althouse is a feminist Democrat who voted for Obama and has roughly 800,000 visitors to her blog a day. I get a significant bit of her runoff, and we enjoy each other’s company because we’re both free speech advocates who insist on integrity. I have raked her over the coals countless times, as I’m doing you all here, but she handles it like an adult – not in the bullshit, cowardly, and deceptive manner you guys engage in. And, yes, I am grateful for her support. If that’s “pathetic” then I want to know what your claim not to have seen my photo on my blog is.

Ami,

“so he shows up, insults everybody… some ppl are v nice to him,…”

Lying about my mother, and condescending to me, is not being “nice.” You are cruel beyond belief, partially because of how you go about it: you think you have plausible deniability, which – with most idiots – you probably do. But I’m unique – I demand accountability, and will hold you to what you say. You are not “nice,” you are insulting and cruel, which is how I found this blog to begin with:

The cruelty that exists here was pointed out to me by others.

I guess they’re all crazy.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Ami Angelwings: Cruel Beyond Belief xD (fact or fiction)

sry i have to add “Fact or Fiction” after I say “beyond belief” every time just cuz of that stupid show in the 90s xD

tho now I do get it… since even to the feminists here, I’ve been giving hugs and sympathy for trauma they’ve shared.. I’ve apparently been cruel to everybody O_O;;

Ami Angelwings: Vile Cruel Demon of Evil Cat Land

Pecunium
9 years ago

Concession.. not really.

Funny thing… that, Integrity.. You said I was stupid, clueless, etc. because when I looked at your blog I didn’t click through to other places (and avatars…. anyone can use anything as an avatar), and so I was a sorry excuse for a vet.

You could have done the same for me. The link is right there on my handle, and that handle is what I use most places.. It links to a lot more details about me than are on your blog.

So, we have a disparity of integrity… but hey… keep telling yourself how you “won”.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Wait… wait.. so ppl are actually pointing out to you how cruel, specifically *I* am? 😀

rly? 😀

like do they go “omfg Manboobz was bad before but have you seen this awful Ami chick, she’s like queen bee alpha evil bitch face of doom! she’s like every cheerleader you hated in high school ROLLED INTO ONE! she’s sarah palin, hilary clinton, the borg queen, the T-X and dark phoenix put into a blender w/ a sprinkling of lindsay lohan in for good measure!” ? 😀

like do the MRAs rly point to me and go *POINT* AMI IS THE VILEST OF THE VILE ON THAT SITE AND THAT’S SAYING A LOT!? Have you SEEN her cards!? xD

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@Pecunium, yus he’s not rly clicking on our handles to find out about us either xD

tho if i’m being cruel here, it means my entire blog is filled w/ just pure cruelty… so that might be like looking into hell xD.

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

“Ami Angelwings: Vile Cruel Demon of Evil Cat Land”

I think you need to make another card.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Ami,

tho now I do get it… since even to the feminists here, I’ve been giving hugs and sympathy for trauma they’ve shared.. I’ve apparently been cruel to everybody</i.

Changing the subject, to how you've engaged others, doesn't change shit about how our interaction went down. Why can't you guys stay on point? Is everything a dodge, a lie, or another opportunity to change the subject? Where's Plymouth? Can't tolerate being held to the issues? So, ZOOM, she's gone, baby, gone! You guys have no – NO – integrity.

Pec,

You could have done the same for me. The link is right there on my handle, and that handle is what I use most places.. It links to a lot more details about me than are on your blog.

Did I question your service? Did I suggest you were less than you stated? Then why would I be look you up? You’re back to making no sense, Pec. I really don’t think this is a healthy environment for you:

Like Ami, with her “magic cards,” you guys live a life of delusion.

But, in case you haven’t noticed, I’m really into breaking that shit.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Like Ami, with her “magic cards,” you guys live a life of delusion.

XDDDD

rly? like you’re not being sarcastic right? you believe this? 😀

If so… I want to know more XDDD srsly :3

(& apparently I changed the topic by being on topic XD but then that’s what a CRUEL PERSON DOES XDDDD )

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Ami,

“yus he’s not rly clicking on our handles to find out about us either”

Same question to you: why would I? It is the crowd here who claimed I’m all talk, I’m not what I seemed, I’m a bluffer – whatever. I called you liars.

Now that it’s been proven that I’m a real person who stands by his words, you have to look for new angles – anything but admit you’re liars.

Shit, at this point, if I were to look up your profiles, I would have no reason to trust them because you’ve proven yourselves to be such liars here. I, on the other hand, am exactly as I’ve presented myself, and have been for years:

Get used to it.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Dixon: You made assumptions about our lives; Said we didn’t know about violence, etc. Said I wouldn’t be willing to say the things I’d said in real life. Here, I’ll help you out…

Oh – and one more thing – I was thinking about this line again, and I think it explains you perfectly:

““People who talk, are generally more bluff and bluster than actual bully-boys”

In your world, people don’t hit, so of course you can lie, be condescending, irrational, etc. – you have no restraints on your behavior – which is the way you want it. You scream “abuse” at anything that could get in your way.

You didn’t take any time to see if the person (i.e. me) who said that might have some ideas about the things you said weren’t “in [my] world.”

I am asking questions about the things you’ve said. You graduated high school in 1980. You say you graduated from San Francisco City College in ’84. So you are boasting about a 2×6, and talking about how much time you spent “seeing the world”, so your rate, and the time you spent on WesPac, or MedPac is relevant.

Also… I can’t find any references to your being married. Makes me wonder.

You say you’re mother raised you, but your public biographies say were you were taken in by foster parents. I was just wondering which of those two was the one who wasn’t abusing you when she administered beatings, ‘when she felt like it”, with boards and suchlike.

Just trying to put the pieces together.

Pecunium
9 years ago

But Dixon: I did click on your profile. You made fun of me because I didn’t do it as thoroughly as you thought I ought.

But you didn’t have the integrity to return the favor, even that much. You didn’t have the “drive to win” to do it a little better than I did (to late now) and show me up.

So you are whistling in the dark, because the thing is, you (nor we) get to declare victory, the other people who look at it will judge one set of actions, and words, against the other, and make a judgement. They are the referees and umpires.

I’m not really worried about the objective observers. I’ve got a pretty good idea of how the two sides of the actual arguments (as opposed to the rhetorical posturing) play out.

In the meanwhile, carry on.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I’m a lying liar who lies AND I’m cruel xDD This gets better and better xD

Also he ttlly dodged Kirby xD

I need to go or I’ll be late for a shopping date xD But plz elaborate on what you meant about me and my cards 😀 Your obsession w/ them rly intrigues me, and I want to know more 😀 (do you want to know more? *clicks yes*) :3 I’ll be back to read it 😀 (or am I lying? :O )

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Geez, I thought this thread was dead.

The Crack Emcee: Sorry that I read the story about your mother’s behavior as you saying “Now THAT’s abuse.” You didn’t say that you were abused as a child, and I shouldn’t have assumed that you needed sympathy for your story. However, regardless of your situation and how you feel about it, I can’t support an adult hitting small children in the face for any reason. But that’s just me. And also the law.

Sorry also if I misunderstood the point you were trying to make by bringing up your murderer wife and her female friends who supported her. I still don’t quite understand the point you were trying to make with that detail-light story, but I don’t need to, I guess.

Re. this quote: “My wife had never been hit and she killed three people. Hmmm. One could gather that a childhood without clear limits leads to a sense of entitlement that can be harmful to others. ”

What makes you assume that hitting a child is the only way for a parent to establish clear limits or raise a child without a harmful sense of entitlement? My parents taught me to respect other people, and I was never hit — in the face, anyway. (I got the occasional spanking.) But I’ve met many men in prison who were (what they identify as) abused as young children, presumably for “valid” reasons. Cigarette burns for asking questions. Lashes with a belt for not going to bed when asked. Now, the last time I made an assumption, you didn’t like it. But I gotta say that to me it looks like one can’t draw the clear line you’re trying to draw between extremely harsh punishment of a child and that child’s grasp of clear limits as an adult.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Pec,

You didn’t take any time to see if the person (i.e. me) who said that might have some ideas about the things you said weren’t “in [my] world.”

Again – why should I? That’s a cute trick you play there, switching between “our,” “we,” and “I” when it suits you:

Dixon: You made assumptions about our lives; Said we didn’t know about violence, etc. Said I wouldn’t be willing to say the things I’d said in real life. Here, I’ll help you out…

You’re sure to get me that way, that’s for sure. I mean, little ol’ me can’t be expected to do a search for every profile I encounter in this group pile-on of a clusterfuck, can I? So you’ve got me: I didn’t look for you, I didn’t look for Ami, I didn’t look for Plymouth, or Pez – but you, alone, did look for me and then claimed there was no info – including no photo – you gonna be a lawyer when you grow up? Because you’re GOOD. That Pec, boy, he’s a regular Perry Mason, that guy.

I am asking questions about the things you’ve said. You graduated high school in 1980. You say you graduated from San Francisco City College in ’84. So you are boasting about a 2×6, and talking about how much time you spent “seeing the world”, so your rate, and the time you spent on WesPac, or MedPac is relevant.

Ha-ha! Man, you guys LOVE to live off of your assumptions. I am a well-known artist/musician, as well as a vet, so when I say I’ve “seen the world,” I’m not just talking about a 4 year stint in the military.

Also… I can’t find any references to your being married. Makes me wonder.

And you’ve GOT TO HAVE IT, don’t you? Anything but deal with the issues of this thread. You know now I’m not a liar, you know I don’t hide behind a handle, but somehow, you will try to get the information you think will bring me down, right? Now even my marriage is questionable?

Dude, you’re a vet – you’re supposed to be better than this.

Just trying to put the pieces together.

You lie. I’ve engaged in enough of these dialogues to know what you’re up to – this is an attack to try and cover for your own lack of integrity and the wrong-headed assumptions you and the other idiots here tried to project onto me. Don’t bullshit me, dude. Keep it simple, stupid, huh?

But Dixon: I did click on your profile. You made fun of me because I didn’t do it as thoroughly as you thought I ought.

But you didn’t have the integrity to return the favor, even that much.

for the last time – I’m not questioning your service, your marriage, none of that. It is you who decided I hide behind a handle, etc. I’m serious, this place isn’t healthy for you, because you’re not dealing from the top of the deck, which – again – is exactly what I heard about this joint. As a vet, you’re supposed to be better.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

One more thing:

if you were “just trying to get the story straight,” you would get out of that stupid defensive crouch, stop trying to find dirt to attack me with, stop questioning what I’m telling you (since it all seems to check out when you do find it) and just ask me something without a challenge behind it. many of you have lied to me, insulted me – whatever you can – while I am here, alone, taking you all on.

If you, Pec, are different, as a fellow vet, then why don’t you act like it?

That’s how normal, non-crazy or deceptive people go about things.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Crack:

You should probably look at my previous post, where I actually try to get the story straight. You don’t seem to interested in that, just attacking others. Amazing.. Its like you aren’t really being honest here!

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Amazing.. Its like you aren’t really being honest here!

Now, kirbywarp, that’s just unpossible! No troll has ever been dishonest! I know for a fact because they all tell me so.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Crack:

“stop questioning what I’m telling you… and just ask me something”

And you wonder why we don’t take you seriously…

Pecunium
9 years ago

You have this wild hair up your ass that 1: I’m not playing fairly. I made a statement, you tried t apply it t everyone. That’s the switch. I’m just trying to keep your attacks aimed at the rightful targets. No one else here said you were more bluff than action.

And 2: Being a vet doesn’t make anyone a paragon. I’ve treated you at least as well as you’ve treated anyone here. Specifically, you accused me of not knowing what violence was. Of not living in a world where people respond to being offended by hitting people. I told you that was wrong. I looked at your blog. I didn’t bring the things I saw there to this discussion. I limited to what you said here. I looked at it to see what sort of things you write. I was trying to see if this was some specific hot-button topic.

And I didn’t see much to impress me. No clever turns of phrase, no real insights. What I saw was more of the same. Also, to be honest, what I saw was some dishonest use of quotation. You imply (by juxtaposition) that the people talking about your music, are talking about your blogging.

It’s your biography here that I look at when talking about your naval time.

He maintained contact with his dad, though, and the two connected strongly through music; the only “modern” musician the elder Dixon had any time for was Frank Zappa. After getting a G.E.D. from Grant High School, in North Hollywood, Dixon joined the U.S. Navy and traveled the world before attending San Francisco City College for a few years, and settling into the city as a struggling artist and political agitator.

Traveled the world before attending San Francisco City College for a few years.

That bio is only a couple of words different from the LAWeekly article seven years before:

The Crack Emcee was born Louis Troy Dixon 37 years ago in Los Angeles. His mom, from a wealthy Negro family in Chicago, broke it off with Charlie Mingus in order to hook up with Troy’s dad, Alvin Troy Dixon, a drummer with various L.A. jazz bands in the ’50s and ’60s. The couple divorced when Troy was 2, and he lived with his father for a few years — with Maya Angelou as his baby sitter and jazz great Eubie Blake as a frequent visitor to the home. Eventually, Troy was taken in by a foster family, and grew up on 78th and Western in South-Central; Ice T lived half a block away. He maintained contact with his dad, though, and the two connected strongly through music; the only “modern” musician the elder Dixon had any time for was Frank Zappa. After graduating from Grant High School in North Hollywood, Dixon fils attended San Francisco City College for a few years before dropping out and settling into the city as a struggling artist and political agitator. He eventually went on to work with industrial agitators Consolidated and Franti’s cult band the Beatnigs.

So, you spent, “a few years” and dropped out., but your facebook page says you graduated in ’84. It’s a two year school, and you’ve said you traveled the world before you went there. You graduated from Grant in 1980.

So you spent a few years between 1980, and 1984 at San Francisco City; before you graduated, or you dropped out. In that time you also joined the Navy and traveled the world.

It’s not that I want think you a liar, it’s just that what you’re saying has some anomalies. As an interrogator I was trained (and trained others) to spot anomalies. Now I’m just trying to clear them up.

So, was it the mother who divorced your father who was beating you? Or the foster parent? How long were you in the Navy (and where did you go). Did you graduate SFC, or not? How long is “a few years”.

Why hasn’t your wife been mentioned in any of the readily findable information on you? When did these three killings take place?

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you used it all up by telling us things that don’t match other things.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Bee,

The Crack Emcee: Sorry that I read the story about your mother’s behavior as you saying “Now THAT’s abuse.” You didn’t say that you were abused as a child, and I shouldn’t have assumed that you needed sympathy for your story. However, regardless of your situation and how you feel about it, I can’t support an adult hitting small children in the face for any reason. But that’s just me. And also the law.

Another concession – I’m starting to like you guys! – and one of the points of me being here is to say the law should be changed. Kids belong to parents – not the state, not feminism, and not you, no matter how you feel about hitting children. They are not yours.

What makes you assume that hitting a child is the only way for a parent to establish clear limits or raise a child without a harmful sense of entitlement?

Do you see what you did there? It’s in the words “the only way” – which I never said. A parent should have the right to bring up their child without the rest of you sticking your noses in. You guys have already made enough wrong assumptions, just on this thread, that the point why you should butt out couldn’t be clearer. It’s not your place, you don’t know what’s going on, and your values aren’t others. You can’t be right in this – yet you support and impose laws that enshrines such behavior as mandatory – and then attack and smear anyone who says “No” – including even the dead. Yeah, you should be so proud.

I’m not attacking you now, Bee, but only trying to make the point:

There’s nothing “good” about this. The guys you mention in prison are not the norm and guess what? They’re in prison, so of course it’s Mom and Dad’s fault. It can’t be theirs, right? Guess what? Most of them “didn’t do it” either. You buying that?

I respect your concessions, and thank you for them. I want the all-elusive “common ground” as much as you do, but I will not be toyed with. That’s what I’m known for online, and – just as I have my detractors – I have many, many supporters and friends. I hope we can get closer from here, and want you to know I will do my part when we speak, to remember the honesty you’ve come at me with here.

Take care – it’s a jungle out there,…

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

I could be wrong now
but I don’t think so!
Cause it’s a jungle out there
it’s a jungle out there

duh duh da da!!!

Wow, did you write that song? You really are a musical genius!

dan
dan
9 years ago

Crack

It’s a bit of a stretch for you to accuse people here of dishonesty, when you’re accusing your wife, [NAME REMOVED –DF], and the guy she seems to have left you for, [NAME REMOVED –DF], of the murder of three people, without volunteering the rather crucial information that this is your belief, which may or may not have merit, rather than a substantive fact backed up by criminal proceedings, or even disciplinary proceedings for medical malpractise. That would be the normal, non-deceptive way of broaching things.

Now I’m not saying that you’re wrong – it’s quite possible that they may be responsible for deaths due to their pseudo-scientific quackery, but it’s going to take much, much more than just your say-so.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Crack: There’s nothing “good” about this. The guys you mention in prison are not the norm and guess what? They’re in prison, so of course it’s Mom and Dad’s fault. It can’t be theirs, right?

So why is it that Ball isn’t to blame for what happened. That’s what you said at the beginning, this wasn’t his fault.

He hit his daughter, her lip was split, and from then on out he quit.

That’s what he did. It’s kind of embarrassing, he did 21 years in the Army, but he wasn’t willing to own up to his actions. He could have done the counseling. He could have faked it, mumbled the magic words and been back with his kids.

He could have been honest, and looked at the situation and evaluated the merits of hitting a four year old for acting like a four year old. He didn’t. He let his wife down. He let his kids down. He let himself down.

If you look at my earlier comments about this, I’ve said he got a slightly raw deal. He shouldn’t have been charged with DV. I don’t know that being charged with child abuse (or endangerment) would have been better, but he was wrongly charged.

He did commit battery. If some slaps someone else, that’s a crime. If you’re not in a place where people are, “looking in their beer” when a fight breaks out, you are going to have to explain to the cops.

If you hit someone else’s kid, and split their lip, you are going to be talking to the cops. If a babysitter is putting the kids to bed, and splits their lip, they are going to be talking to the cops.

Ball isn’t special. He should have been talking to the cops.

But you don’t think so. You want to make excuses, and say, “it wasn’t abuse”. The only way that flies if if one’s own children are somehow not protected from parents doing what would be a crime if anyone else did it.

That’s not right.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Pec,

You are comparing what I’ve said directly, to an online bio, to what reporters write – which do you think is more accurate? You’ve got the broad outline of my life, so – if you’re not just continuing to try and jack me – why is any of it so important to you? (And must I separate quotes about my music from the rest of my endeavors? Why? It’s my fucking blog.) I owe you nothing. But, but, but,…I am not an asshole (as you seem intent on being) so here’s when my wife’s murders were finally discovered – almost 3 years after I knew about the first one – and the authorities asked for my help:

http://themachoresponse.blogspot.com/2008/10/i-was-married-to-murderess.html

And here’s when it started breaking into the news.

Satisfied?

Pecunium
9 years ago

Dan: thanks.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Dan,

Not only have I provided the links you see above, but I can also show you when [NAME REMOVED –DF] lost his medical practice. The case is not over.

And I am not a liar.

Continuing to try and prove otherwise will get you nowhere.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Pec,

Are you seriously comparing a parent striking his/her child, as a disciplinary measure, to a bar fight?

Really? Really?

Pecunium
9 years ago

Dixon: Who wrote the second one? The one that’s pimping your music? Why is it so close to the one from seven years earlier?

As to keeping the one realm separate from the other.. if I were to use stuff reviews of my poetry to show how great my writing about torture is… that would be dishonest. I see that all the accusations of murder… are in your blog. That your wife ran off with a new age guru explains the focus of your rants, but it doesn’t prove murder.

Where is the arrest? Right, she’s in a foreign country. Where is the extradition request (recall that Polanski couldn’t come out of France because if he did he’d be arrested). There was the guy doctor in France who was wanted for murder in Pennsylvania. That was one murder, and the managed to get him.

Where is the police report, the autopsies? The, you know, evidence?

You came in here, all piss and vinegar, got it splashed right back in your face and then you whine about it? Right manly behavior that.

You want to make claims.. fine. Back them up. Outside sources, not just your accusations. Talk is cheap, evidence is required.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

The guys you mention in prison are not the norm and guess what? They’re in prison, so of course it’s Mom and Dad’s fault. It can’t be theirs, right? Guess what? Most of them “didn’t do it” either. You buying that?

Well, the guys I was working with admitted their crimes and (with varying degrees of success) accepted their responsibility for their actions. That was part of the program, in fact — it was a restorative justice program, where they had to not only take responsibility for their crimes, but also learn about and accept the impacts of their crimes. So, a group member would, for example, not just bear responsibility for the woman that he raped and killed, but understand that that woman had relatives and friends who loved her, a community that was shocked and scared by the crime, that his own family and friends were impacted, that the person who found the body and the police who were called to the crime scene were impacted, etc. And I guess that’s where I’m coming from. None of these guys ever said, “Y’know, if my mom hadn’t burned me with her cigarette butts, I wouldn’t be here.” But I can see that every action has its consequences, and when you’re talking about people who have committed crimes, by and large you’re also talking about people who have been victims themselves. It’s a self-perpetuating thing. And of course that doesn’t excuse anyone who’s committed a crime. It just gives alternative justice folk like me another goal. Not just locking people up once they’ve committed a crime, but trying to get to the beginning of the vicious circle.

I’ve kind of gone beyond the scope of what you were talking about. Thanks for your response. I appreciate it. I disagree with you about some things — this is one of them: “Kids belong to parents — not the state, not feminism, and not you, no matter how you feel about hitting children” — but appreciate the conversation.

Aw crap. I was going to end on that note, but I have to clarify: I don’t think kids belong to me or the state, or their parents. Parents have parental rights, not property rights. Those parental rights are very, very important, and the state must protect them, but children are vulnerable, and vulnerable people should also be protected. To analogize, if my bed-ridden grandma moved in with me, and I started punching her in the face whenever she asked me for a glass of water, I think the police would be right to remove her from my care. Even though she’s MY grandma. The analogy is a little off, since kids are not elders, but I feel like there’s a fine but important line between flat-out mean-spirited mistreatment of people who are not able to protect themselves, and punishment, teaching, and establishing boundaries. And the state has the right to step in where people have stepped over the line.

dan
dan
9 years ago

Crack

I’ve read the DNA articles from last year – he was acquitted at a tribunal in Wissembourg of the charge of delaying the diagnosis and treatment of his patients.

The Crack Emcee
9 years ago

Pec,

There’s a lot of stuff that gets lost in these types of conversations – I got of school with a G.E.D., for instance, so I didn’t graduate in 1980 as you assumed. As I said, none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand, which my experience does inform:

Even in a divorce that involved murders, and cults, etc., I was treated as the bad guy – with accusations of wife beating (which my wife got creamed over) – which should make any man consider what family law is really all about.

Dan,

I repeat: none of this is over. There are things happening, on both sides of the ocean, which still are to be revealed.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Does anybody else feel their hope for humanity slipping away? Its one thing to come on a blog relating tradgedy, its another to misrepresent wild accusations as fact. I feel sorry that I ever felt sorry for this guy… -__-

dan
dan
9 years ago

Crack

The problem that I have is that you start off with the statement: “And finally, my wife killed three people, the first being her own mother…” at 7.00am on 25th June.

You follow up with “My wife had never been hit and she killed three people…” at 10.24am this morning

And now we’re discussing whether the guy that she left you for was responsible for two deaths that, as far as I can determine, according to a pretty skimpy report in Nova, is a charge that he was acquitted of in October last year.

We’ve drifted to the point where there’s no mention of your ex-wife now, let alone murder.

Once again, I’m not saying that you’re wrong – doctors get away with shit – but we’re a long way from where we started.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Dixon: Are you seriously picking only one of those points as salient?

And then expecting me/us to think that refutes the rest?

You say you want to be treated “fairly”. I asked direct questions. I asked them quite awhile back; from pretty much the very beginning. You didn’t answer them, but accused me of being, “defensive.

When discrepancies were pointed out you blamed other people for them. Fine. Clear it up. Answer the questions.

You seem to hold different standards for Thomas Ball than you do for other people. He was the victim; his blame of others was justified, but people who say they didn’t do something you disapprove of… they are just lying.

So… lets look at some of your past hits: Some of the conversation from Althouse on getting married.

The Crack Emcee That’s what I mean about selfish and shallow: just because you want to redefine it doesn’t mean you can.

a·buse (-byz)
tr.v. a·bused, a·bus·ing, a·bus·es
1. To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
2. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
3. To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
4. To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
5. Obsolete To deceive or trick.

“To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.”

mal·treat (ml-trt)
tr.v. mal·treat·ed, mal·treat·ing, mal·treats
To treat in a rough or cruel way; abuse. See Synonyms at abuse.

You are arguing that smacking a four-year old, hard enough to split a lip, isn’t maltreatment, nor ill-use. That it is ( to look to the first definition) a proper use of the four year old.

You’ve not convinced me (I can’t speak to anyone else) that striking such blows to a four year old, isn’t maltreatment, and abuse. That doesn’t mean I think all corporal punishment is, ipso facto child abuse.

But you are the one who goes on about words having meanings, and individuals not getting to make them up as they like; to make them fit a philosophy. Well we are using the word as it’s defined. Show some integrity man, practice what you preach.

If you’d like to try explaining what the specific aims of a parent are in such a circumstance, and how they tie into a program of character building, and moral formation, feel free. Be sure to back it up with more than just, “it’s what worked for me”, because that’s not gonna cut it.

Show your work.

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