Men’s Rights Classix: The Age of Consent is Misandry
If it weren't for this guy, there would be no pedophiles.
Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
Posted on June 18, 2011, in alpha males, antifeminism, beta males, creepy, internal debate, misandry, misogyny, MRA, PUA, rapey. Bookmark the permalink. 890 Comments.
@Nobinayamu Hilarious? Bizarre? Ridonkulous? xD WTFish?
or you can just use XD XD <— that was my own XD not "XD XD" … XD
@Kirby: My sister ran into the whole “religious issues with medical treatment” thing a handful of times during her residency. And we talked about it a lot, to the extent that she was able to discuss it. (No HIPPA violations over here)
Generally, the doctors err on the side of patient care and the child is their patient. They let the chips fall where they may.
But I fall on your side; children are not property. And, again, it goes back to how hard it is to make these sorts laws and discuss consent and autonomy. Extreme cases make bad laws.
Hey Ami, yeah the Lolita stuff was the Other Guy.
And, I’d totally forgotten about “ridonkulous,” thank you very much!
I’m gonna repost this, cause it got scrolled away, and the last sentence got cut off.
“kirbywarp | June 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm
@NWO:
Also this. This annoying habit of yours to ignore a conversation once you don’t have an answer to it, or you turn out to be wrong. I have the feeling that the only reason you responded to me was because Pecunium didn’t ask a question, so you had an easy response.
People will think no less of you if you openly say “you know? You might be right about this. I’m gonna go think about it.” Even MRAL was mature (=_=) enough to say such things. If you leave it hanging, nobody knows what you think, and in a real conversation its horribly rude to just walk off, even if you just say “you know what? I don’t want to talk about this any more.” Its infinitely worse when someone proves you wrong, you disappear, and a thread or two later you make the exact argument that was refuted before. If you want to actually converse with people, prove it. Otherwise don’t be surprised if we devolve into mocking you time and time again.”
@Nobinayamu:
Good to hear doctors take the initiative sometimes. But yeah, these things are tough. In some ways I think a globally recognized “ability to decide” age would be nice, because that would include consenting to nearly everything. You don’t necessarily have to worry about informed consent because even adults don’t always consent to everything while being informed. Its a matter of what information is available, not on how well a person can make decisions.
Nobinayamu
1) The increased average lifespan of human beings
2) The age of consent being 18, across the board and men regularly going to jail for having sex with women under 18 years of age.
3) The word mammography.
4) The risk of breast cancer from mammograms. MAMMOGRAMS.
5) The idea that most of the posters on this board have no objections to adult women having sex with young teenage boys.
6) The idea that feminists created the age of consent laws
7) The notion that feminists are preventing you from forming romantic relationships with 17 year old girls Your utter lack of reading comprehension. When I say that society has advanced in myriad ways since the days when we married of twelve year olds I didn’t say that it’s changed BECAUSE we’ve stopped marrying off twelve year olds. I mean, really, just dumb as a bag of hammers. Or did we decide rocks? Either way, dumb as shit.
9) The idea that we never married off twelve year olds: http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24
1) I’ve shown you just rattling off a few of our founding fathers/men of note even going back a thousand years that people lived as long or longer. The only reason any data shows otherwise is faulty fact gathering. Look at the average age of Europe 1940-45. War skewed the average, the war dead numbers are rounded in that number.
2) Don’t know what you mean.
3) Spearhafoc is the official grammar nazi.
4) MAMMOGRAMS use ionized radiation. Radiation is cumlative. Go run for a check up, Knock yourself out.
5) The law favors women. Feminism lobbys for even more lenient treatment of women to the point of totally disbanding all womens prisons. I’ve given that link before. Your lip service of “caring” means nothing as you garnish the favors granted by the State that feminists have lobbied for.
6) They did, feminism is quite old.
7) If a 16 year old girl who was a real beauty said to me, “Ya know slavey, I like the cut of your gib lets have sex.” Well being no fool I’d say you betcha. Feminists would jail me faster than my no doubt pathetic love making skills lasts.
9) That age of consent was for both boys/girls. Why is it girls were victims? The boys were lucky I guess.
“The only study you could possibly show me of any relevance would have to be.[...]”
The studies I provided and the conclusions they reached were plenty valid. I’ve asked you to give actual scientifically-based research data (from an unbiased source) to back up your claim, and so far you haven’t. You merely saying something doesn’t make it so. I’m not about to waste my time digging up studies to suit your arbitrary criteria while you sit around spouting absurd claims (though I’d be more willing to do so if you actually demonstrated an iota of capability at basic proper debating).
Nobinayamu, you forgot “the age of the earth”, but otherwise, a pretty representative list.
(too lazy to click back and find the comment where NWO outed himself as a YEC o_0 )
Ami, fun times meeting you and Brett today! MANBOOBZ 4 EVAR!
7) If a 16 year old girl who was a real beauty said to me, “Ya know slavey, I like the cut of your gib lets have sex.” Well being no fool I’d say you betcha. Feminists would jail me faster than my no doubt pathetic love making skills lasts.
So much for true love. xD I guess that Sailor Moon Power of Love phase didn’t take xD Too bad… the heart wand was a nice touch XD
@KristinMH I posted about it on the other thread (“Today, Boston, Tomorrow Toronto!”) :3
NWO, first of all it’s “ionizing radiation”, not “ionized radiation”. Second, STFU about mammograms.
All medical tests and treatments, pretty much without exception, carry risks. Anything from mild, self-limiting symptoms (swelling at vaccine injection sites) to miscarriage (1 in 200 for amniocentesis) to death (estimates range wildly, but a not insignificant number of people are killed by anaesthetics during surgery). Doctors still perform these things because the benefit or potential benefit outweighs the risk of harm, you dolt.
But you probably think vaccines are a plot to inject us all with tracking devices and fluoridation is a Communist mind control plot. It’s like talking to a fucking wall.
sarahejones…
“I said SPECIFICALLY there is a power dynamic at play in a relationship between partners of disparate ages DUE TO THE AGE DIFFERENCE. Stop taking my words out of context. Otherwise I’ll have to agree that you’re simply incapable of understanding what “power dynamic” really means.”
I believe by power dynamic you mean one person holding an advantage in some way giving them power.
Again, men don’t think of sex as a means to an end. It is a pleasurable act shared between a man and a woman. If you believe in the acquiring or use of sex as a power dynamic that is your way of thinking, not a mans. So again I ask. Have women have been indocrinated into that way of thinking or do they naturally think of sex as a means to an end? Is sex a means to gain power in a relationship to women?
“If a 16 year old girl who was a real beauty said to me, “Ya know slavey, I like the cut of your gib [sic] lets [sic] have sex.” Well being no fool I’d say you betcha.”
So … it’s been a while since you’ve talked to a 16-year-old who wasn’t a sailor, eh, Subby?
Anyway, since when is doing something that you know is illegal not foolish? (Assuming, since you seem to, that in your state the age of consent is over 16, I mean.)
No, NWO, men don’t think of sex as a means to an end. (Well, some of them do, “men” being a very large category and all, but let’s go with this for the moment.) Men think of sex as an end in itself.
…an end which some of them may achieve by unethical means.
The worry is not so much that older men will use sex to control teenagers, but that older men (people, actually) will control teenagers to get sex.
The sex itself may be simple pleasure (or it may not; manipulation around sex often leads to coercion in sex); the deception and manipulation leading up to the sex, however, is not.
NWO,
1) Being stupid doesn’t make you right. The fact that some people lived to be very old a long time ago does not in anyway prove that ALL people lived to be old. It does not negate the fact that, on average, the life span of humans has increased with time. David and other posters have provided links to credible, researched evidence that supports these facts. All you’ve done is told me how long Benjamin Franklin lived. You’re wrong.
2) Well, you’ve conveniently forgotten. Because you started out by saying that men go to jail for having sex with women under the age of eighteen. When it was shown that in the U.S., the age of consent is 18 in very few states and in most states is 16 or 17 and as young as 14, in a few, you refused to acknowledge your error. In fact, you kept posting scenarios in which, as a result of feminism, you would be jailed for having sex with a 17 year old. Once again, feminism is not preventing you from seeking a romantic relationship with 17 year olds. You’re in Texas a lot -as you keep reminding us- and the age of consent there is 17. Knock your self out.
3) When you a make up a word because you’re too dumb and or lazy to know the right terminology, grammar is not the issue.
4) You’re an idiot who doesn’t know fuck all about how medical radiation works. I don’t need a mammogram yet. As I am at low risk for developing breast cancer it will be another 5 years at least before my doctor recommends that I have mammograms once a year. Again, papr1ka and other posters did a bang up job presenting peer-reviewed evidence as to why you are once again wrong and I will not re-hash it.
5) You didn’t say that the law favored women. Nice back-pedaling. You said that the posters on this board would vilify you if you suggested that women should be punished harshly for having sex with under-age boys and that they would support punitive child support measures for any pregnancies that resulted from such abuse. No posters vilified you for agreeing with me, and no posters have said that I am wrong and that women should not be punished for having sex with under age boys. You are, once again, wrong.
6) The age of consent laws have changed over time but have been on the books prior to women being able to vote and in some cases even own property. You are full of shit. And once again, dead, fucking, wrong.
7) Oh, now it’s 16. First it was 18. Then it was all about how you’d be all about an un-indoctrinated 17 year old, and now you’ve moved the bar to 16. Well, hey NWO: the age of consent is 16 in many, many states. So once again, knock yourself out. As long as it’s consensual, you won’t go to jail. As for your pathetic love making skills, try having sex with women who aren’t hookers. We all perform better with partners who are actually interested.
8) NWO, I didn’t say that we exclusively married off twelve year old girls. Once again, you misinterpret because you can’t read. I said we used to marry off twelve year olds. Of course the laws pertained to both boys and girls. And it was deplorable. All children who were married off barely past pubescence were victims of our formally backwards thinking. And my stance on young boys not being abused is well-documented.
You’re a fucking moron.
You could not tell that difference at the spearhead or a voice for men so I stand by that statement and add they really hate women in general too.
Why don’t they just call themselves what they really are, not MRA’s but anti-feminists. Then their “activism” makes sense.
Good point, Amiangel. NWO, what happened to the pure, pure love? And, you know, the love making? All of a sudden it’s casual sex with a 16 year old you’ve just met?
Hmmm…. 8 and ) makes a sunglasses smiley face. I did not realize that.
@Nobinayamu the funny part is that I posted that info in one of the first 5 comments on this thread I think (or first 10) xD
NWO, you aren’t all men. You’re barely even one man.
I’m going to tell you a real-life story, actually, one in which a power dynamic (shocker!) ACTUALLY EXISTED.
I was 15. He was 21 or 22. Not even 30, but definitely in a different place in life than I was.
He told me that he didn’t like sharing a bed, so I should sleep on the floor. Wood floor with no carpet. Because I was 15, I was a sucker, and thought sacrificing for your man meant your love was particularly true, so I curled up on the floor next to his bed like a dog.
But if you don’t see the power dynamic in that, here’s one that’s directly about sex:
One time, we were having sex, and he couldn’t come, and he just kept going, and it was really starting to hurt me. I asked him to stop, and he started to get angry. His anger didn’t mean the same thing as my anger. If I was angry, I could yell at him. If he was angry, he could yell at me–and he could refuse to give me a ride home from his house miles away from mine, and he could get me in trouble for having sex, and he could cut himself off emotionally at a time when I thought I was in True Love. So his anger had more power than mine, so I let him fuck me even though it hurt like hell, and I even faked that I liked it, just to keep him placated.
THAT’S a power dynamic in sex, yep.
@KristinMH
“But you probably think vaccines are a plot to inject us all with tracking devices and fluoridation is a Communist mind control plot. It’s like talking to a fucking wall.’
http://fluoridealert.org/
Perhaps you should learn a little more about the effects of flouride before spouting nonsense.
Actually maybe you can’t. Flouride makes you stupid. Also flouride allows aluminum oxide to easily bond with brain cells to further stupify you. Amongst a myriad of other good stuff. So drink up ladies Big Daddy says it’s good for ya!
I think the 8) face is awesome! :D It’s like it’s the extra COOL point :3
*starts slow clap for Nobinayamu*
@NWO:
Thank you for actually responding and saying what you mean to Nobinayamu. This is all I ask of you, really. If you want to exceed expectations, start incorperating evidence into your arguments and don’t flat-out ignore evidence presented by others. But this is a healthy first step, as long as you keep it up.
@KristinMH didn’t we just HAVE this discussion about flouride in drinks and overdose today at the meet up? XDDD
@Ami Angel – I know, I missed it.
Sigh, anytime you have interaction between two or more people, you have interaction between people. How hard is that to figure out? The power dynamic is a description of that interaction under certain circumstances. Older people have unequal bargaining power over underage people, due to social rights of adulthood and age as well as due to emotional/social experience. “Is sex a means to gain power in a relationship…” For some people, men and women, yes, as well as the converse (using power to gain sex).
Nobinayamu…
“Good point, Amiangel. NWO, what happened to the pure, pure love? And, you know, the love making? All of a sudden it’s casual sex with a 16 year old you’ve just met?”
In my scenario “she” was offering sex to me. Although I went to jail, I was accountable for her offer/actions.
@NWO ” Although I went to jail, I was accountable for her offer/actions.” No, you are accountable for you own actions. You can say “no” and not have sex with her. Shocking, isn’t it?
“Again, men don’t think of sex as a means to an end. It is a pleasurable act shared between a man and a woman. If you believe in the acquiring or use of sex as a power dynamic that is your way of thinking, not a mans.”
I never thought I’d read anyone stating that male doms and male sadists don’t exist, but Slavey seems to have done it.
NWO:
Seriously?
“In my scenario “she” was offering sex to me. Although I went to jail, I was accountable for her offer/actions.”
You can’t be jailed if someone underaged offers you sex. You are jailed if you actually have sex with someone who is under aged. You are held accountable for your actions and your actions alone.
NWO – If a teenager offers you sex, you say “no,” and I promise you won’t be accountable for her actions. Saying “yes” and going through with it are YOUR actions.
8 frogs were sitting on a log. One decided to jump off. How many were left?
8– because deciding to jump isn’t the same as jumping. 8)
No, darksidecat, NWO can’t say no. Way, way, back when I asked why a man who loved a underaged girl (’cause of course back then it was all about love) can’t wait for her to be of age, NWO refused to answer the question. Which basically means that he can’t wait. Or won’t wait. And he wouldn’t be responsible for his actions because responsibility is merely a vague concept. Like consistency and integrity. They’re words to be hurled at women like invective but have no bearing on his own values and character.
And of course, there are many many states where the age of consent is 16, but NWO will ignore this fact, like all facts. The reason he doesn’t have a sexual relationships with 16 year olds is because evil feminism has indoctrinated society.
I’m sure 16 year old girls country-wide, are filled with sorrow at this missed opportunity and shaking their fists at the sky.
@Molly Ren:
Apparently slavey only knows/cares about consenual loving sex between old men and underaged girls.
darksidecat… As Nobinayamu has pointed out the age of consent has risen dramatically over the last hundred or so years. When will it stop? If you, as a woman, think of sex as a means to gain power or control, what should I think about that?
Even in my little scenario with the beauty 16 year old girl, I wasn’t thinking in terms of “power.” She asked me, I said yes. There was no power dynamic.
@Kirby: “Apparently slavey only knows/cares about consenual loving sex between old men and underaged girls.”
Yah, I know. I have to amuse myself in this thread somehow. ;)
NWO, the age of consent has fluctuated. It’s been as low as 10 and as high as 21. It has not increased steadily without interruption over the years.
NWOSlave: Soon the 80-year-olds will be having all the sex.
NWO, you are not the only person in the world. Even if I believed you -and let’s be clear, I think you’re full of shit- and your little scenario about how NSA, power-dynamic free sex with a 16 year old girl, it wouldn’t be applicable to every man, every where, at every time. Forever and ever, amen.
There are women who treat sex and the power dynamics that are involved far, far differently than I do. The fact that they are not like me, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Are you capable of understanding that everyone is not you?
NWO, the fact that you can construct a situation in which you have totally consensual uncomplicated sex with a teenager (albeit not one who behaves much like a human being) does not mean that it’s a good idea in general.
Read my stories, above–these are pretty mild examples of where it goes when there’s a relationship between an independent adult and a dependent child.
@Molly Ren:
Better yet, since he’s said that consent laws were put in place by feminists, its probably only 80-year-old women that will be having sex, probably with 14-year-old boys.
You know, if trends continue.
I posted this before but this is just too perfect.
It’s fluoride.
“Even in my little scenario with the beauty 16 year old girl, I wasn’t thinking in terms of “power.” She asked me, I said yes. There was no power dynamic.”
Of course you weren’t thinking in terms of “power.” It’s a completely fleshed out, true story of an actual nuanced, detailed loving relationship, and not just some imaginary scenario that you pulled out of your ass to make a point. And of course power is never sub rosa — whenever it’s in play, it’s something that even the stupidest bag of hammers would notice if it existed at all, right, my little bag of hammers?
@Kirbywarp…
“You can’t be jailed if someone underaged offers you sex. You are jailed if you actually have sex with someone who is under aged. You are held accountable for your actions and your actions alone.”
The only part you have right is I will be jailed. If she, the 16 year old beauty “offered” sex, she participated. She initiated. The only reason I go to jail is feminist jurisprudence has declared the nonsense of a power dynamic. I did no coercing, The offer and invitation was hers. I AM accountable for her action by saying “yes” to her invitation.
Does anyone else notice how NWO started with 18 year olds, then dropped to 17 and is now on 16? Adorable.
No, NWO, you’re accountable for your actions by having sex with her. If someone said “let’s steal a car” and you went with them, and helped them steal the car the cops are going to lock you up too. Feminism doesn’t have a fucking thing to do with it.
And, hey, in nearly half the states in the country, the age of consent is 16. How low will you drop the number in your next scenario?
It’s a little sad that for a moment, the thread shifted to what I think is the important thing here (having an honest society discussion about age of consent not just of sex but for all sorts of issues, and in general, when human beings can make decisions about their lives, personal choices, and body, and that this issue is about real young people and their rights, and what their limits should be and when, esp since a lot of the arguments are also used to limit control of their bodies in other situations, and for the same reasons “to protect you from making a mistake/being coerced” and that it’s about that, and not “omg I rly want to f- kids, why can’t I?” :\ ) and now it’s back to “omg it’s all about me, the grown guy and MY desires” -_-;;;
Tho I understand making him look ridic is more fun xD (and as I said, I actually just think this is something rly big and complex that our society needs to look at, not from our current laws as the “default” to disprove, but from an honest discussion and examination of when human beings should be able to decide what to do w/ their own bodies, so I dun mean “WE SHOULD HAVE THIS DISCUSSION NOW ON THIS THREAD”, is just kinda sad.. and hilarious xD)
NWOslave: So, she raped you?
@Nobinayamu
“There are women who treat sex and the power dynamics that are involved far, far differently than I do. The fact that they are not like me, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Are you capable of understanding that everyone is not you?”
Than why should I, or other men, be punished, (literally with incarceration) for the misdeeds of the few? And who has decided this? Your answer has to be your moral guide, your deity, the State.
Oh my god. I concede. You’re actually just stupid. Got it.
Because I continually refer to a SPECIFIC situation. And then you go and apply to all situations everywhere all the time because you think I believe men are teh evilz and all of them everywhere intend to exploit women!!!!1111!!!!1
Shut the fuck up. Seriously. If you can’t grasp the fact that I’m applying the phrase power dynamic to a very specific situation then you’re not worth the time.
NWO:
O__O
No seriously,
O__O
“The only reason I go to jail is feminist jurisprudence has declared the nonsense of a power dynamic. I did no coercing, The offer and invitation was hers. I AM accountable for her action by saying “yes” to her invitation.”
No, you are held responsible for your action of saying “yes”, not her action of offering. If you said “no” you would not be jailed. Also, I’m gonna make this really big and noticeable so you will see it.
YOU WILL NOT BE JAILED FOR HAVING SEX WITH A 16 YEAR OLD IN A STATE WHERE THE AGE OF CONSENT IS 16
Ami’s pointed this out earlier, and it probably deserves repeating. There is a shitload of nuance and gray area and so forth in this situation. If a young girl could knowingly and willingly offer to have sex, in other words, if she could consent, then the age of consent laws should be lower. If she can’t because of her age, then she cannot consent even when she offers sex. But we can’t have this debate with you, NWO, because you so willingly blast through nuance and present black and white scenarios. Any conceding on our part of “well, maybe a 15-16 year old could consent” would be met with a response by you of “feminism just wants to put all men in jail and call them rapists” or some shit.
Nobinayamu
Is this ficticious girl not accountable for the offer she made me.
Ami, that’s what IM and blog posts are for? :P
Actually, I think we’re staying on track a bit better than we have in other threads. Not like that’s saying a lot!
@Ami:
Just noticed your post. Count this as a vote to talk about that stuff if people are interested.
“Is this ficticious girl not accountable for the offer she made me.”
NO, NWOSLAVE, SHE’S NOT. YOU’RE ONLY ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS IF YOU ACT ON THEM.
NWO, you aren’t being punished. If you can attract a 16 or 17 year old girl in a state where 16 or17 is the age of consent (i.e. the vast majority of states and countries) then have at it.
No one is punishing you. Men came up with the age of consent laws over 100 years ago. Take it up with them.
And you can drop that state, deity bull shit now. I read that thread, but I didn’t participate and you don’t know a fucking thing about what I think about religion, morality, or “the State”. You want to live you someplace with no government? Then get your dumb-ass off of my government created internet and take it to the government free paradise of Somalia. I bet the age of consent there is really low.
kirbywarp
There is no grey area. She, the 16 year old beauty, in a state where thats to young, offered me sex. I said yes. Even though the offer was hers. In fact if you want to play the power dynamic game the power to offer or not offer was hers alone. I never coerced or initiated. How in the world was I on the top of the power dynamic?
Damn, you guys were prolific while I was out running errands and doing yard work. There’s like 4 more pages of comments. I’ll never catch up!
Oh, dear, 16 year olds are throwing themselves as NWOSlave now? What did I miss? Are they trying to entrap him with their feminist wiles and get him sent to jail?
Because, NWO, you are an adult. And society has placed you in a position that accords you certain legal rights and responsibilities that she does not enjoy. It is an inherently imbalanced situation. And that explanation doesn’t even cover the developmental differences between an adolescent and an adult. Her brain is still developing; yours is not. There’s a neurological reason behind the fact adolescents often make rash and ill-considered decisions. Nor does your hypothetical scenario acknowledge the reality that an offer of sex can be coerced.
Don’t have sex with that girl, NWOslave, she’s trying to steal your precious bodily fluids!
NWO:
Age of consent laws mean the age at which a person is legally able to consent to certain actions. It doesn’t matter whether they are accepting an offer or offering, if they are below this age, they are not legally able to consent.
Therefore, you were justifiably imprisoned for accepting her offer. She was not legally able to make the offer in the first place. You could have waited one or two years if you really wanted, but if you wanted sex, you were out of luck.
Is this still hypothetical?
Ami, we can change the subject if you want. We’ve beaten this age of consent thing to death. :P
I’ll bring you up to date Plymouth
Radiation doesn’t cause cancer.
Flouride is good for you.
And right now I’m being crucified because a ficticous 16 year old beauty offered me sex in a State where that age is too young. I foolishly said yes, and now I’m going to jail. And it’s all my fault.
No, you fucking titty-baby. No.
She made you an offer. You had sex with her. In your hypothetical, if you did this knowing that the age of consent law in the state that you were in was 17 and she was 16, then you broke the law. If you’re caught, arrested, tried, and convicted you’ll spend time in jail or prison. It’s really pretty simple.
I like to smoke marijuana. I don’t think it’s harmful, I know it’s beneficial for me as it helps me manage my depression (well it did, I am currently free of the wonderful, wacky weed) and I know that it has health benefits for people who suffer from chronic illnesses that cause them pain, decreased appetite and other symptoms. When I purchased it, I tried to do so responsibly from private growers so I could avoid feeling guilty. I disagree with the laws that make its use and purchase illegal and believe that I can point out why these laws are stupid, ineffective, and in some ways immoral.
But if I get caught smoking weed by law enforcement types, they’re taking me to jail because it’s against the law. Period.
Look, no 16 year old who isn’t being trafficked is going to offer you sex, so you don’t have to worry about it. But in the event that it does happen, you are free to say no. Or, you know, do a quick internet search and figure out if 16 is legal in that state.
But for fuck’s sake, stop all this goddamn whining.
Crucified? Seriously? Such a fucking a titty-baby.
For God’s sake, deny her your essence!
@NWO:
Saying you would be imprisoned is equal to nailing you up on a cross and leaving you to hang and die? Right..
@Molly and Ami:
Lets get this ball rolling then. First off, does it make sense to try to come up with what I mentioned earlier, a legally recognized “age of decision?” This would encompass things from sex to drinking. Or does it make sense to talk about each issue individually? For instance, 18-year olds are able to sign for themselves as separate from their guardians, and essentially become independant adults. Should this be the same logic used in consent laws?
Ami, you’re right.
Man, I went out with a friend to relax and what did we do? Spent the entire time reading Manboobz…
Okay, this one is really getting to me, so it’s time for our friend Mr. CAPSLOCKY!
A LITTLE BIT OF RADIATION IS ONLY A LITTLE BIT BAD FOR YOU. A LOT OF RADIATION IS A LOT BAD FOR YOU. A MAMMOGRAM IS ONLY A VERY, VERY LITTLE BIT OF RADIATION.
…And that’s why your ethical duty is to respond to a child asking you for sex the same way you’d respond to a child asking to have candy for dinner: “As an adult, I know better, so it’s my responsibility to not let you have that.”
Sorry David, this might be a bit long.
@Mr. Slave,
“You also “feel” that a man should be jailed if he is 22 while having sex with a 17 year old girl. Right?”
Firstly, Kirbywarp made a good distinction between 17 and 22, and 16 and 30. Secondly, there may be exceptions where someone 22 is on the same level as someone 17, certainly more exceptions than 22 and 16, 23 and 17, 22 and 15, 24 and 17, etc. But a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and it should be a line that prohibits someone 18 years of age from taking advantage of someone 13 years of age.
At 18, you’re pretty well guaranteed to be old enough to have graduated high school; what you do after that is your responsibility. And that makes it a good age of consent for a lot of things (I still don’t get the drinking thing for 19 and 21). So why a four year exemption? First of all, I don’t believe an 18 to 21-year-old should be punished for having sex with a 17-year-old. That’s ridiculous. Furthermore, a 17-year-old dating a 13-year-old is kind of weird, and possibly creepy, especially if that 13-year-old is still in grade school/middle school, but it’s not nearly as bad an 18-year-old high school graduate or possible college student having ‘sex’ with a 13-year-old who is, at most, in hir first year of high school and might not even have started puberty yet. The experience level of the two are completely different, and, yes, there is too much of a power-dynamic.
For the record, I was 21 and when a 16-year-old co-worker of mine attempted to flirt with me in the same manner of a man who was 22. I tolerated the flirting from the 22-year-old, but when the 16-year-old tried it, my immediate reaction was “Eew! You’re a little kid! My younger brother’s older than you!” Wasn’t even something I had to think about. The fact of the matter was he was in grade 11, and I had just finished my second year of college. That said, it would be nice if every case of breaching the age of consent were investigated on an individual basis if one partner was five years older than the other, but I just don’t see that as being doable. It’s difficult enough trying to enforce age of consent laws as they are. Is it really feasible to have a six year exemption for 17, a five year exemption for 16, a four year exemption for 15, a three year exemption for 14, etc.? I don’t think so. Thus, I reiterate: a line needs to be drawn somewhere. If a 17-year-old and 22-year-old are dating, the older partner can wait a year. It might suck, but it’s not that hard, and that year will pass.
So should a man be jailed at 22 if does have sex with a 17-year-old girl? The fact that you call him a man and her a girl is pretty telling of how you yourself see the two, but still don’t see anything wrong with it. Jail seems a little harsh to me, but I think at least a fine is in order, and the same should go if the younger is male and/or if the older is female and/or if either partner is intersex for that matter. A 30-year-old with a 16-year-old? Jail. Absolutely.