Blogger: SlutWalkers deserve to be raped
From the website of the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the most odious misogynist bullshit I have seen thus far on the topic of the Slutwalks: a post on The Third Edge of the Sword, a blog that seems to go out of its way to be offensive and “edgy,” that takes victim blaming to a whole new level. Here’s the basic, er, argument of the post, which the author has put in giant pink letters so we won’t miss it:
Every woman marching in the Edmonton Slut Walk is publicly declaring herself a slut. This means every woman there desires sex with any and all partners. Any sexual activity you initiate with them comes with implied consent. They cannot say no, and if they do understand all their ‘no’s mean yes. They are all asking for it. They want it bad. Now. From you. Go get ‘em!
Some other highlights:
[I]f you … dress slutty, men are going to stare at you. We’re going to catcall. We are going to tell you all sorts of sexual things we want to do to your body. And if you dress slutty and wave your ass in our face, we will do them. The organizers of this event are not oblivious to this point: what they want is a fake sexual revolution. They want to be able to impersonate sluts without actually being sluts, and that’s unacceptable. If you don’t want to be treated as a piece of meat, don’t marinate and grill yourself and sit perched on a piece of garlic toast. You dress slutty, you show off the goods, you try to get a reaction, you will get one. Hint: it’s not always going to be the one you want. …
The “reaction” he has in mind is rape. By calling rape a “reaction” instead of what it is — a criminal assault on someone, an act of sexual violence, a violation — he of course is attempting to switch the blame to the victim. He spells out his “logic” in more detail:
[W]hen you impersonate a slut we don’t fine you, and we don’t throw you in jail. There’s really only one punishment for dressing like a streetwalker when you aren’t one: you do have to endure the occasional rape. You should really suffer it in silence. Accept the character flaw within you that caused this, and move on. Police and court resources are already busy enough with real criminals: like actual rapists who do nasty things to their niece or the homeless native chick passed out under the bridge, or a conservatively dressed urban professional walking to her car, or a girl out jogging in a track suit. To equate the act of actually violating and raping one of these people with having sex with a girl who’s every square millimetre of public persona screams anybody who wants to can screw me right now is ridiculous.
Once again, this brand of misogyny leads to some conclusions that are pretty misandrist – namely, the notion that men are at heart rapists who can’t control their violent urges:
If you go out on the street in an outfit that would make Britney Spears feel uncomfortable, you do so knowing that your ultimate aim is to make men want you. Well, they want you now. Congrats. Oh, wait, you mean you didn’t understand what that implied? That in the great Bell curve of sexual congress you’ve just pushed everybody on the right-hand side of the -2 std devs line past that imaginary barrier that says “there is no power in the universe powerful enough to stop me from sliding my finger inside your panties”? I call bullshit. You do know. But you want to be a virginal slut, to dress in ways that makes men helpless to their urges but still leaves you fully in restrictive control.
The blogger concludes by arguing that the Slutwalkers are all “lying bitches” because they dress like they wasn’t to be raped, but do not actually want to be raped. Then he makes this lovely suggestion:
If your wife is one of them, I’m very very sorry. Maybe a good rape might make her a little more manageable around the house.
Now this post is an atmittedly extreme example of a misogynistic response to the Slutwalks. But the basic “logic” of this blogger’s would-be argument is essentially identical to that of many MRA and other “manosphere” pieces I’ve seen on the subject, the main difference between them being that this guy embraces the logical conclusion of his argument — that Slutwalkers deserve to be raped — while the MRAs who make essentially the same argument (and fling the same sorts of insults at the Slutwalkers) make a show of saying that they don’t really think the Slutwalkers “deserve” it. And maybe they’ve convinced themselves that this caveat means something . But in that case the extreme reaction that manosphere misogynists have had to the Slutwalks – the insults thrown at the Slutwalkers, the “jokey” references to rape, the prurient sneering – makes little sense. If you argue that women are “asking for it” when they dress like “sluts,” you’re essentially saying they deserve it. You’re making the same argument this guy is making, but pretending you aren’t.
NOTE: The graphic above is taken from the official web site for the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011, which took place a week ago. Here are some pictures of the march.
Posted on June 11, 2011, in antifeminism, evil women, misandry, misogyny, MRA, rape, rapey, reactionary bullshit, sluts, threats, violence against men/women. Bookmark the permalink. 612 Comments.
@firebee:
Don’t worry, I wasn’t trying to contradict you or anything. I was just bringing up another point I thought was complementary to yours. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.
Oh, no problem, I think it’s also a good point. It strikes me as utterly bizarre, some of these arguments, when I think of them contrasted against my father or any of my boyfriends or my BFF (lol) or most of the men that I work with. Seriously? If men were really as described, it’d make sense to lock them up in advance.
Sorry Kirbywarp, you were misunderstood, and you’re a man… that means off to the gallows for you! XD
Ion, I don’t think it’s any of your goddamn business who is a survivor, or mentally ill, or an Aspie, or not straight, etc. By asking such a question, you delegitimze all of their (our) experiences and reactions. Why does it matter if I am bi, or mentally ill, or an Aspie, or a Martian, or blue? What does that have to do with my experiences? Not a whole lot, really.
@AbominableSnowPickle: here here.
An answer to the questions Ami and I posed would be nice.
@firebee that is something… if men were animals, like the rape apologists always say, and w/ their “if you wave meat in front of a wolf” thing… and so therefore they can’t help themselves… then they should be treated like animals… animals dun get trials… they dun get benefit of the doubt, we understand they can’t help it, but animals that assault humans get put down (or flown back into the wild, away from society) -_- That’s not what I believe. B/c I believe men are human beings. But apparently that’s what these ppl believe, they even make wild animal analogies that dehumanize and demean men >_:| Sometimes I think we need “I believe in men” t-shirts. :)
@sarahe: I’m waiting for his answers to your questions too…they’re very important questions!
@Ami: If men act like wild animals, does that mean we can put down rapists? <–Sarcasm here…damn, I wish the internet had a sarcasm font! I would totally wear an "I believe in men" shirt, and possibly bumper sticker as well^.^
I need to remember to stop using the >_:\
I love how I said that and then FORGOT NOT TO USE AN ANGRY FACE! xDDD
NEWAYS
@AbominableSnowPickle Here here x 100000000! Exactly >:3
@Ami: thankees! I’ve been lurking here for forever (since before David moved the site to WP), and recently decided I didn’t want to be a silent observer anymore^.^
FYI: It’s “hear, hear”.
I thought it was… but I got confused from the way it was spelt here xD Luckily I’m female, so spelling isn’t important for me! :D
Of course it isn’t, Ami! We ladies are perfect pretty princesses who can do no wrong! <—Did I get that right?
So wait, if women are princesses, are men the gallant knights who slay the evil ogres that imprsoned them, or the evil ogres?
Well, some of them are the evil ogres…and the manginas are the gallant knights, or something like that. That seems to be how it’ll separate out.
Ion’s response indicates that he is annoyed at being proven wrong and just can’t admit it, so instead of refuting our responses he implies that we’re either gay/bi/trans, rape victims, aspies, or have mental health issues. Not that that any of those would make the person wrong anyway.
I am straight, and lucky enough to have never been raped. I also dont have asperger’s syndrom or any mental health issues. I still believe blaming a victim for not preventing their rape somehow is wrong and backwards thinking.
You seemed like a decent guy Ion when you asked your first question, generally curious about women protecting themselves by dressing modestly. This is a common attitude and I actually dont think it implies that the majority of people who think it are misogynists or trying to excuse rape, just very misinformed. A great thing about Slut Walk is that it corrects otherwise decent people’s misconseptions about these issues. I do my part in correcting people when the topic comes up. But if they reply by implying that I’m mentally unstable, am being too “emotional” or something, then I think they’re being an ass on purpose and still want to keep holding their views even when the facts have proven them wrong.
and reading about people’s experiences with rape and assault is extrememly sad. I’m so sorry to each one of you who had to go such horrible ordeals. It must be really tough listing to these assholes constantly fighting tooth and nail to pin blame on victims.
Men are like the treacherous and evil Federation, always thinking that if we decloak, it means we’re asking to be fired upon. Those jerks! And they don’t get NO CROSSING THE NEUTRAL ZONE MEANS NO. Manginas are the humans who see the truth and join the Feminist Star Empire! >:3 And the WHINING too about how they dun have cloaking privilege -_-;; Blame yourselves and your silly treaty! The Patriarfleet hurts men too! xD (also Armas, he hurts everybody… that jerk… >:| )
Man, I’m so happy to have another bee here. Hi, Firebee! *waving and jumping up and down*
We bee folk have to stick together, yanno.
Oh! I wanna be part of the Feminist Star Empire!
You’re like a magic card tribe! :D
Maybe you’re like slivers :O
Firebee 2R
Creature – Bee
All Bees gain +2/+0 as long as Firebee is in play.
1/2
I really like that responsibility post-it completely shows why one should never assume the victim bears any responsibility.
Ami, you forgot the flavor text! >:(
“What’s worse than being stung by 1000 bees at once? Being stung by 1000 bees at once while on fire!”
I knew you’d have my back Kirby xD It’s part of my female privilege, always having a geeky guy there to fill in my missing flavour text xD
Why do you call people like that fine officer who gave great advice rape apologists? If he said not to drive a mortorcycle without a helmut, that would be good advice, right? Would he be a motorcycle accident apologist? If he said not to leave hundred dollar bills hanging out of your back pocket because it’ll probably get stolen. I’d say more good advice. Not an apologist of some kind. So why, in this one realm of all crime is he an apologist?
@NWO:
“The Slut Walk protest movement was originally sparked in January 2011 after a Toronto police officer’s suggestion that women could avoid being sexually assaulted simply by not dressing like “sluts.””
source
That wasn’t good advice. He said that if only women didn’t dress so sexily, they wouldn’t get raped. But of course, what women wear don’t actually affect how often they are raped. Amazing, but true. So not only is it bad advice, it’s incorrect.
You just don’t listen at all, do you Slavey?
/delurk
“All Bees gain +2/+0 as long as Firebee is in play.”
“What’s worse than being stung by 1000 bees at once? Being stung by 1000 bees at once while on fire!”
Yay! I’m so proud of my bee heritage. Thanks, kirbywarp and Ami!
*buzzes off*
The Rothchilds (not to be confused with the Rothschilds) controlling your life? Well, you were just asking for it by calling yourself a slave.
Bees, the only creatures for whom the phrase “Buzz off” isn’t an insult. :D
He gave terrible advice NWOaf..
I know where it started and I know what he said. Once again, damn good advice.
I’ll be in Atlanta sometime next week, (oh fucking joy) and the area is a shit hole. If I told you, “hey buddy I wouldn’t walk too far south because you might not walk back,” you’d shake my hand and thank me for the good advice. Right?
So this fine officer pretty much did the same thing. He gave great advice in order to avoid a bad situation. Shake his hand, thanks for the great advice.
Subbie, given your amazing tendency to be wrong about pretty much everything, I’d be more likely to do the exact opposite of whatever you’d advise.
You don’t listen at all, do you NWO. Here it is again, in all caps.
WHAT A WOMAN WEARS HAS NO EFFECT ON HOW LIKELY SHE IS TO BE RAPED
Keep putting your fingers in your ears, slavey, its about the only thing you can do these days.
Ok speedliners, my advice to you is take out a loan and walk thru downtown Chicago waving it around. But don’t take that advice.
He’s a Toronto police officer. That means he’s working for the government of Soviet Canuckistan.
Why are you defending an agent of the New World Order?
Don’t you realise that feminists aren’t actually against him? It’s all a ruse to misdirect free-thinkers like yourself from important matters, like the disappearance of Thora Birch. Seriously, what happened to her?
Just because you say the way a woman dresses and acts has no relevance doesn’t make it true kirbywarp. You might want to believe that, but that clearly isn’t the case.
@NWO:
Oh man, you got me. I guess there is clearly no evidence to suggest.. oh… whoopsie.
(Link is a page on google answers, which provide a bunch of links to different studies from different states)
I have a question.
A woman who’s dressed in an attractive manner gets raped. Do you think the rapist has any responsibility for what happened or was it all her fault? What percentage of responsibility do each party get?
And of course I borked the html. My point still stands, I think.
Once again, damn good advice.
Amazing how a man decides what is the best advice for women.
Let’s all give the patriarchy a hand!
Ok speedliners, my advice to you is take out a loan and walk thru downtown Chicago waving it around. But don’t take that advice.
Hey, I did that last weekend! I got elected Mayor.
Just because you say the way a woman dresses and acts has no relevance doesn’t make it true kirbywarp. You might want to believe that, but that clearly isn’t the case.
“clearly” = what I have pre-decided is the truth, regardless of firsthand statements, facts, statistics and citations that might demonstrate otherwise.
Oh, I see what you did there! You advised me to do something, then you advised me not to do it, so that way I’d actually do it! What a clever little sub you are.
Ok Kirpywarp, what would you think of a study from Utah State University (which is what you gave me) that says most rapists don’t remember what their victims were wearing. And they cited nothing as evidence, I’m mean just nothing. They just made a statement and that was their evidence. The other cite you gave bogged my comp down and gave me an error message.
Now if I gave you a cite like that what would you say. You’d laugh in my face. Here’s the evidence, a typed statement about 10 words long. Well I guess I’m convinced.
I, for one, welcome our new grammatical overlords.
@NWO:
So… yeah, bout that evidence.. See, the problem here is that you’ve formed your opinion, and are unwilling to consider you may be wrong. The problem? Common sense can get things absolutely, horridly wrong. You live in a bubble of experience, unaware of what goes on outside of it. What seems to be true in your bubble is not necessarily true of other bubbles, or indeed of all of them combined. This is why studies and citations are so damned important; they are people’s attempt to step outside of their bubble to see the world as it truly is. You are interested in truth, aren’t you?
I am going to be backing everyone up here on Ion’s comments. Why does it matter? Cis, straight, neuro-typical people who have never been assaulted get very passionate about this stuff, too, you know. And you know, it really isn’t your business, these kinds of things.
NWO. Even if, which I don’t think is true, but I’m going to indulge you for the sake of argument, EVEN IF women are more likely to get raped based on what they are wearing, IT DOESN’T MATTER.
I have an immutable right to dress in terrible, tacky, skanky clothes. It is other people’s right not to rape me.
I know you will never understand this because you think women’s sexuality is expressed in how she dresses and not in, you know, how she has sex. But it’s true. I have a right to live my life unmolested. No matter what.
Oh crap the grammar nazi is here.
At the risk of being a bit offensive…
By all means, throw me in the briar patch — do let’s make the motorcycle helmet argument. I would be perfectly happy, were it feasible, to do the equivalent for what I tentatively plan to wear to the Slutwalk — that is, to add an object to my outfit which serves, statistically speaking, to mitigate the effects of an attempted rape at the time that it occurs just as a motorcycle helmet mitigates the effect of a motorcycle accident at the time when it occurs.
Mine comes in .40.
Not that this is anything close to a feasible solution to the rape problem either. The Slutwalk in my area is located somewhere that would make it very difficult to do that, many people do not have sufficient interest in the required tool to become proficient in its use, shooting is kind of an expensive hobby, and people still do not have a responsibility to fight (or attempt to fight) attackers off or be held responsible for being attacked.
But let us by all means call the bluff: “Take precautions even if they limit your life substantially, take precautions even if they don’t actually work”? Fine. Attempted rapists will be shot; survivors still exhibiting hostile intent will be shot again. Happy now?
I corrected my own grammar. Now answer my question.
NWO, can you link to any document that verifies that dancers are regularly on the stages of strip clubs?
spearhafoc, normally I am lurching about, acting all Grammar Zombie;
so thanks for picking up the slack while I’ve been out building a deck.
At the LEAST we should be able to insist that the repulsive trolls maintain a basic level of command of our common language.
Sorry, that was supposed to read “dancers are regularly raped on the stages of strip clubs?” Can you, present any evidence to support that assertion?
Ok Sarah. Should anyone have something stolen, be mugged, murdered, embezzled? Should there be war? How about poverty? Maybe car accidents, (drunk drivers)? Maybe fighting?
Well guess what? Those things DO happen. A lotta that stuff YOU can avoid by avoiding being certain places and doing certain things. Pretty good advice, huh?
@NWO
The first (and only) link I gave you contained a bunch of different links, some to pdfs, some to websites. The pdf cited a federal study which was, unfortunately, unnamed. So… here’s one (link to pdf). Basically, the study found no correlation between clothing and rape.
that says most rapists don’t remember what their victims were wearing. And they cited nothing as evidence, I’m mean just nothing.
well, most zombies would say that it supports the notion that what women wear has nothing to do with their being raped. You know, logic.
It says 404 page not found Kirbywarp.
Huh.. dunno how that happened, go to this link.
http://www.ncur20.ws/presentations/14/1474/paper.pdf
Oh crap the grammar nazi is here.
oh you crybaby. perhaps if you weren’t so bad at it, it wouldn’t bother you so much.
It’s NEARLY as amusing as his posting vintage fashion photos in response to your tripe, and it seems to irritate you more, so YAY.
Still haven’t received an answer, Slavey.
Kirvywarp, the article you gave me was from the Dept. of Psychology, Georgia U, headed by a feminist, with the opening intro of, “In today’s society, women have more legal rights over their own bodies then at any other point of American history,”
I decided to read no further. And really, can ya blame me?
@NWO:
Yes? Yes I can? Because you can’t argue with data, only methodology or interpretation. So, are any of these things horribly wrong?
Hey. NWO. I hate you. I really, really do. I’ve argued THIS EXACT POINT with you before.
You are a vile person, and I think I genuinely wish you ill. And I’m a really nice person who dosen’t wish ill on most people.
This is no longer amusing to me. I’m going to go make egg salad and cry.
Answer my question, damn it!
Spearedhafoc I find you quite tedious. Stick with your official postion as grammar monitor and the occasional rothchild not to be confused with rothschild schtick.
Should anyone have something stolen, be mugged, murdered, embezzled? Should there be war? How about poverty? Maybe car accidents, (drunk drivers)? Maybe fighting?
O this is rich.
So it is the fault of people being mugged that they got mugged.
It is the fault of murder victims that they got murdered.
It is the fault of war casualties that they were killed while a war went by.
The other ones are kind of stupid. Car accidents? how someone drives does contribute to car accidents, but sometimes not. A drunk driver doesn’t always hit another drunk driver, so the other one is at fault because what, she made the poor choice of not avoiding driving while the drunk driver was out?
Yes, bad things happen you toad. Rape is a bad thing, and happens when a BAD PERSON, the rapist, finds a victim and an opportunity and NONE of that has anything to do with whether the victim is a slut, or dressed provocatively or is a feminist.
Howzabout we agree on this? Rape is a crime, the person who commits it is a criminal.
Spearedhafoc I find you quite tedious.
I confess this made me chuckle. “Tedious”, indeed.
Are exotic dancers routinely raped on the stages of the clubs in which they dance?