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Blogger: SlutWalkers deserve to be raped

From the website of the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the most odious misogynist bullshit I have seen thus far on the topic of the Slutwalks: a post on The Third Edge of the Sword, a blog that seems to go out of its way to be offensive and “edgy,” that takes victim blaming to a whole new level. Here’s the basic, er, argument of the post, which the author has put in giant pink letters so we won’t miss it:

Every woman marching in the Edmonton Slut Walk is publicly declaring herself a slut. This means every woman there desires sex with any and all partners. Any sexual activity you initiate with them comes with implied consent. They cannot say no, and if they do understand all their ‘no’s mean yes. They are all asking for it. They want it bad. Now. From you. Go get ‘em!

Some other highlights:

[I]f you … dress slutty, men are going to stare at you. We’re going to catcall. We are going to tell you all sorts of sexual things we want to do to your body. And if you dress slutty and wave your ass in our face, we will do them. The organizers of this event are not oblivious to this point: what they want is a fake sexual revolution. They want to be able to impersonate sluts without actually being sluts, and that’s unacceptable. If you don’t want to be treated as a piece of meat, don’t marinate and grill yourself and sit perched on a piece of garlic toast. You dress slutty, you show off the goods, you try to get a reaction, you will get one. Hint: it’s not always going to be the one you want. …

The “reaction” he has in mind is rape. By calling rape a “reaction” instead of what it is — a criminal assault on someone, an act of sexual violence, a violation — he of course is attempting to switch the blame to the victim. He spells out his “logic” in more detail:

[W]hen you impersonate a slut we don’t fine you, and we don’t throw you in jail. There’s really only one punishment for dressing like a streetwalker when you aren’t one: you do have to endure the occasional rape. You should really suffer it in silence. Accept the character flaw within you that caused this, and move on. Police and court resources are already busy enough with real criminals: like actual rapists who do nasty things to their niece or the homeless native chick passed out under the bridge, or a conservatively dressed urban professional walking to her car, or a girl out jogging in a track suit. To equate the act of actually violating and raping one of these people with having sex with a girl who’s every square millimetre of public persona screams anybody who wants to can screw me right now is ridiculous.

Once again, this brand of misogyny leads to some conclusions that are pretty misandrist – namely, the notion that men are at heart rapists who can’t control their violent urges:

If you go out on the street in an outfit that would make Britney Spears feel uncomfortable, you do so knowing that your ultimate aim is to make men want you. Well, they want you now. Congrats. Oh, wait, you mean you didn’t understand what that implied? That in the great Bell curve of sexual congress you’ve just pushed everybody on the right-hand side of the -2 std devs line past that imaginary barrier that says “there is no power in the universe powerful enough to stop me from sliding my finger inside your panties”? I call bullshit. You do know. But you want to be a virginal slut, to dress in ways that makes men helpless to their urges but still leaves you fully in restrictive control.

The blogger concludes by arguing that the Slutwalkers are all “lying bitches” because they dress like they wasn’t to be raped, but do not actually want to be raped. Then he makes this lovely suggestion:

If your wife is one of them, I’m very very sorry. Maybe a good rape might make her a little more manageable around the house.

Now this post is an atmittedly extreme example of a misogynistic response to the Slutwalks. But the basic “logic” of this blogger’s would-be argument is essentially identical to that of many MRA and other “manosphere” pieces I’ve seen on the subject, the main difference between them being that this guy embraces the logical conclusion of his argument — that Slutwalkers deserve to be raped — while the MRAs who make essentially the same argument (and fling the same sorts of insults at the Slutwalkers) make a show of saying that they don’t really think the Slutwalkers “deserve” it. And maybe they’ve convinced themselves that this caveat means something . But in that case the extreme reaction that manosphere misogynists have had to the Slutwalks – the insults thrown at the Slutwalkers, the “jokey” references to rape, the prurient sneering – makes little sense. If you argue that women are “asking for it” when they dress like “sluts,” you’re essentially saying they deserve it. You’re making the same argument this guy is making, but pretending you aren’t.

NOTE: The graphic above is taken from the official web site for the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011, which took place a week ago. Here are some pictures of the march.

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Posted on June 11, 2011, in antifeminism, evil women, misandry, misogyny, MRA, rape, rapey, reactionary bullshit, sluts, threats, violence against men/women. Bookmark the permalink. 612 Comments.

  1. Titfortat what they mean is that you don’t realise your privilege until someone points it out. If you went with me through airport screening I would point out that I would be the one who would have to go behind a curtain for a “special screen” while you did not. That’s you being a bit more privileged.

    That fresh tomato you have left out because you don’t like the taste. I know people who couldn’t afford to even buy a tomato. That little bit of food left over would be scraped of and eaten.

    Privilege is not realised until someone points it out. That’s what they are trying to say.

    That and “men often can do stuff women do that is stereotypically not a male gender role”.

  2. Titfortat what they mean is that you don’t realise your privilege until someone points it out(Avicenna)

    I understand that. What I have been trying to point out(unsuccessfully) is that some feminists use the “white male privilege card” as a weapon to say that we have it better ALL of the time. Some imply that because of this so called status we dont understand what it is like to be oppressed. I am saying that I dont agree with that outlook.

  3. “What I have been trying to point out(unsuccessfully) is that some feminists use the “white male privilege card” as a weapon to say that we have it better ALL of the time. Some imply that because of this so called status we dont understand what it is like to be oppressed. I am saying that I dont agree with that outlook.”

    Who are these feminists? No one in this thread is saying that. I think you might just be creating a straw feminist here.

  4. Heehee Snowy

    Also, having bad things happen in your life is not oppression. If you walk down the street in Dangerous Ghetto A and get mugged, that is not oppression, that is a sucky thing you had happen to you.

    Getting pulled over by the cops and “checked” to see if you stole your BMW every week is.

  5. I think at this point, we are in the “child support is just as bad as rape” territory. Minus Cold’s directness, of course.

  6. T4T: sexist, because I have sex? Because I notice (sometimes) the occasions in which the possibility of sex shows up? That’s a funny definition of sexist.

    As to my reference to “prowess”, I think you are reading into it. Note, for example, the interpretation you seem to be putting on that comment. Did I say it has gotten me laid? No. Have I said anything about my being a better lover because of having been an au pair no. Have I, actually, said anything about the specifics of my sex life in my comments on manboobz (feel free to cite them, if you think I have)

    I observed that an aspect of the gender dynamic is affected by what I did, in a way that isn’t affected when a woman does it. And that, you call sexist?

    I’m 44. I’ve been having sex for some time now. In that time I’ve learned a fair bit, and observed a fair bit. Sex, as a topic has come up while I’ve been engaged in the conversation, I’ve taken part. Somehow that’s sexist (in tone… whatever you mean by that).

    So… (not that I really expect an answer, given the way you don’t actually answer the questions generated from your little bits of passive aggression) is your definition of sexism?

  7. T4T I understand that. What I have been trying to point out(unsuccessfully) is that some feminists use the “white male privilege card” as a weapon to say that we have it better ALL of the time. Some imply that because of this so called status we dont understand what it is like to be oppressed. I am saying that I dont agree with that outlook.

    Citation needed. Strawman. Vague (some imply… really? And the lurkers support you in e-mail, I am sure).

  8. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant

    Obviously men are seen as unique for childcare, because they rarely do it. It’s the same way female soldiers are seen as unique. Its not indicative of “privilege”.

  9. MRAL: Read for content.

    Also, there are more women soldiers (as a percentage) than there are male caregivers. They are far from unique. If you are curious you could try joining the Army. Of course you would have to accept that women get to order you around.

    But what I said stands… if a woman has a child who is crying, she gets dirty looks and sometimes actual insults. When it happens to be a man with a child who is crying he gets supportive help.

    That’s privilege.

  10. Also, having bad things happen in your life is not oppression.(Poster)

    Getting beaten consistently for years is just a “bad” thing I guess. Its definately not oppressive, right?

  11. That was not the example you used Tit. So stop with the whining.

  12. No, Titfortat, getting beaten consistently for years in the context that you have described is not oppression. And stop it with the “woe is me” olympics, please. I, for one, am not impressed. If being beaten consistently for years is the worst thing that’s ever happened to you, you should count your blessings. Honestly, I didn’t want to say this, but you’ve been pushing it.

  13. T4T: Depends on context. Then again, you keep ignoring all the people who say privilege is a contextual thing. Being white doesn’t get you much privilege in Kenya, or India, now. It used to.

    Privilege is like being part of the Old Boys Network. It’s how people like George Bush manage to fail upwards, all the time. He had a huge amount of privilege. It’s sort of like the huge flaw in DKM’s argument about how all the ills of the Western World (as he sees them) are the fault of making it a bit less privileged to be white, and male. Never mind that almost all of the people who made the decisions to outsource jobs, erode manufacturing, stagnate wages, engage in CDFs, CDOs, and Securitised Mortgages (or, to go back a a bit, the Derivatives which wiped out Barclay’s, or to go back a bit further, the Saving s and Loan Scandal, or the Crash of 1929, or the bigger crash of 1870) were almost all white males.

    Those paragons of brains.

    How does it come about that… with all this brilliance that he says men have (thus justifying privilege) all those failures happen?

    But I’m digressing. I’ve been a minority white. It didn’t get me much… on the street. But in school it did. I was presumed to be on the “college track”, and the black and brown kids (even when in the majority) had to, “prove themselves” to get out of the vocational track.

    So yeah, had people who wanted to beat me up, because I stood out. That was a place where my privilege didn’t help me. But it doesn’t mean I didn’t have it.

    (Oh yeah… could you please define sexism, so I know what you mean by it, lest I offend unintetionally?)

  14. “But what I said stands… if a woman has a child who is crying, she gets dirty looks and sometimes actual insults. When it happens to be a man with a child who is crying he gets supportive help.
    That’s privilege.”

    Think of this scenario: A person has a flat tire and is standing on the side of the road trying to change the tire. Men are more inclined to stop and help a woman than to help a man. (I’m not making this up, totally. I slightly remember a study which came to this conclusion.) Would you call that privilege?

    In both cases (crying child, flat tire) the person gets help because the helper assumes the person is not capable of fixing the problem on his/her own. And in both cases this assumption is based on the gender of the person. So the privilege of getting help comes with the price of assumed incompetence.

  15. I see what you are saying, Thomas, but there is another factor at play here — and that’s the factor of the default sex versus the helper sex. According to the traditionalist view as I’ve experienced it, if men are believed to be incapable of doing something, then the solution is to have women do it and lower the standard for men. I touched upon this briefly: a man is considered a good father even if he barely does any child care. And that’s not relatively good — a father who gives his children only a modest amount of attention is nevertheless considered an equally good parent, as good as the mother, who is expected to devote all of her free time and sacrifice her career to be considered good. In other words, the belief that men are incompetent at child care doesn’t lead people to conclude that men in general are terrible parents, but to lower the bar for being considered a good father so much, that merely bringing home a paycheck is considered sufficient in most people’s minds, certainly in the minds of MRA’s. When it comes to chronically ill children, a man would be considered a hero if he merely does not leave, whereas the idea of the mother leaving is unthinkable.

    This paradigm doesn’t translate to tire-changing. Many consider women inherently inferior drivers (although practice does not support the bias) — but this belief in the inferiority of women does not lead to a favorable double standard, where a woman is considered an objectively excellent driver merely for getting from point A to point B without crashing the car, whereas a man must be a stunt driver, an engineer and an auto mechanic rolled into one in order to be considered merely as good as the woman, whose measure of excellence, again, is merely getting from point A to point B.

    So once again, I hate to be a pest here, but in all honesty, I can’t agree that the “privilege” of having men stop and help you change a tire (usually in exchange for sex or money, anyway) matches the privilege that men who care for children get in the form of sympathy and assistance.

  16. Given that I suspect child abuse is being hinted at here, I think one of the privileges ppl tend to neglect (either b/c ppl think it’s a given, or that anti-oppression tends to focus on adults, and ppl grow up) is that adults have privilege over children. Children aren’t taken seriously, they are expected and assumed to be less capable, they are less able to command respect from adults, and there’s a clear power differential, in social, economic, authority and often physically. :\ Being a child and suffering from abuse, whether emotional or physical, doesn’t mean that other aspects of privilege/oppression dun exist (just like having experienced rape doesn’t mean that cis or white privilege doesn’t exist, it’s not suffering olympics -_-;; can we PLEASE stop it w/ the trauma olympics?) but it is an example of a privilege/oppression power dynamic at work, and a horrible one :( (and other oppressions can intersect w/ being a child and make things worse or increase the risk of that child). :| But it’s about power dynamics that exist irl w/ real ppl, not some theoretical “i have it worse than you” race to the bottom :\

    Also on the vein of adult/children. I find it interesting a lot of what ppl say are “privileges” of oppressed groups, is kinda like saying children are privileged over adults. :\ “Well children don’t have to work and are fed and taken care of” (ignoring that when it intersects w/ class, this may not be the case).. only if the child has a responsible and non abusive parent. :| The child is dependent on the good will and responsibility of adults. Kinda like how some ppl think that in the past women had it great having few rights and “taken care” of by her father or husband. :\ Or a child has privilege b/c if they cry ppl might listen. Or not. Child could be seen as spoiled. If the child is listened to, it’s b/c we see children as weaker and less capable, we need to take care of them, they are more vulnerable, and if they cry, we feel sympathy cuz we see them as more fragile, and fear for them. Or we see them as manipulative, emotional, and need to grow up. :\ Being treated as a child is not a privilege. So treating adults as children is not privileging them, no matter how much we sometimes wish “boy would I want to be treated like a child, I’m sick of working a 40 hour work week, I wish I could sit back and relax” b/c the dynamics of such a relationship are far more complicated and extend far beyond just that one situation (“I have to work to survive, a kid doesn’t” “I’m expected to change my own tire, a child isn’t”). :\

    And plz let’s cut the oppression/trauma olympics out :(

  17. I apologize for speaking about child abuse so distantly and academically. This is personally extremely triggering for me, and right now I can’t deal w/ it and the oppression olympics/trauma cage match thing is exacerbating this :\ So I distanced myself when writing about it. ):

  18. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant

    Whatever, Pecunium. I’ve never been in the army so I don’t know. But that’s not the point. There are a whole shitload of areas in which women aren’t common, and thus, receive more attention and likely praise for their uniqueness. That’s also privilege, and I have no reason to believe it’s any less common than the male privilege you cite.

  19. MRAL:Whatever, Pecunium. I’ve never been in the army so I don’t know. But that’s not the point.

    Actually it is the point. You have this imagined view of the world, and it’s based on shit you think&dag;. It’s not just in this topic either. Your lack of experience, combined with your absolute sense of being correct is screwing you over.

    &dag; as with, “I have no reason to believe it’s any less common than the male privilege you cite., in which you believe it to be true with neither facts, nor experience, to support your position.

    DMK believes women are overeducated, and underqualified. He says they aren’t competent etc. It’s right up there with your definition of, ‘privilege” as being ‘women aren’t common” so they get treated special. It’s nonsense.

  20. Amused

    Come on over and let me give you a taste of something for a little bit and then look me in the eye and tell me Im not Oppressing you. Oh yeah, when Im done I will tell you to “count your blessings” I was gentle. You are a gem for sure.

    Oppression

    1. the act of subjugating by cruelty, force, etc or the state of being subjugated in this way
    2.the condition of being afflicted or tormented
    3.the condition of having something lying heavily on one’s mind, imagination, etc

  21. Tit: If memory serves, your mention of beatings is in reference to you being abused when you were younger. And no, that’s not oppression, it’s just (ugh, ‘just’) abuse. My parents used to beat the crap out of me, and my mom had a ton of abusive behaviors that were screwing me up before the physical abuse started happening on the regular. I wasn’t being oppressed because, like privilege, oppression is systematic benefits/abuse that happens to a majority of people in the affected demographic due to prevalent attitudes in their society. It’s not oppression every time something bad happens to someone, it’s not privilege every time something good does.

    I understand that. What I have been trying to point out(unsuccessfully) is that some feminists use the “white male privilege card” as a weapon to say that we have it better ALL of the time. Some imply that because of this so called status we dont understand what it is like to be oppressed. I am saying that I dont agree with that outlook.

    Well why didn’t you say so in the first place? If you start arguing against a point that nobody here has made or mentioned without saying what you’re arguing against, people are going to make the ludicrous assumption that you’re trying to refute the points of people who are actually here.

  22. Feyline

    Oh course your parents Oppressed you. They did it by abusing you.

  23. @Feyline actually there is a power oppression/lack of privilege dynamic going on w/ child abuse as I wrote in my above comment :\ but like other oppressions, it’s existence and it’s effects doesn’t mean other privileges dun exist as well (as you said :3 ) :\ (like a common cry from transphobic radfems is that cis privilege doesn’t exist b/c they’ve been raped as cis women, or white privilege doesn’t exist b/c they face sexism or job discrimination as women)

  24. Hey, T4T, ever gonna define sexism?

  25. Pecunium

    Im working on it. I do recall a reference to your ‘endowment’ but for the life of me Im not prepared to dig all the way through your comments. Im sure you remember it though.

  26. Titfortat – Some imply that because of this so called status we dont understand what it is like to be oppressed.

    Whoa! I don’t know who these “some” are but I would never say that. You’re a white male – that makes it harder for you to see your race or gender privilege. But those are only two possible types of privilege and I don’t know enough about your past to know what other privilege you had or did not have. There’s class privilege, ableism privilege, religious privilege, age privilege. This list is not exhaustive. And even if you have every kind of privilege in the world it’s still possible to have empathy and pay attention to those who don’t have the advantages you have and understand, to some degree, what it means not to have all the advantages you take for granted. Heck, if I didn’t believe that I wouldn’t even be bothering to try to explain this.

  27. You recall incorrectly, and you have now made the accusation, so provide the link.

  28. Nope, I dont, link or not.

  29. Plymouth

    Thanks for your time and thoughts.

  30. You support the accusation, or it’s admitted false.

  31. Definately support. Too lazy to dig up the dirt. So, guess what, youre off the hook if I dont have evidence.

  32. No evidence = no support.

  33. I remember your face, good enough for me. ;)

  34. T4T: What? Have you got a sequitor for that?

    By the way… I even more want to see your definition of sexism, if you can 1: imagine a non-existent comment from me about my, “endowment” (and why, one wonders, is that what you decided to imagine?), and 2: such a comment was, “in tone” sexist.

  35. Tit4Tat: “Come on over and let me give you a taste of something for a little bit and then look me in the eye and tell me Im not Oppressing you. Oh yeah, when Im done I will tell you to “count your blessings” I was gentle. You are a gem for sure.”

    Get over yourself. I have an alternative proposition for you: come on over and try raising a severely ill child, and then look me in the eye and tell me again how horrible your life has been. I’ve heard enough of your self-pitying bullshit about you being oppressed by beatings. Boo-fucking-hoo. I’ve known not only beatings, but also rape, fraud, totalitarian repression, severe long-term illness and being a mother to a severely autistic child. On that last one, if I could trade his illness for me being beaten every day for the rest of my life, I’d do it without batting an eye. And I say that as someone who knows what that’s like. So shut up already about your tragic childhood. Seriously: enough.

    A “gem”? Man, you are clueless. And self-centered to the point where it borders on narcissism. Get some perspective.

  36. Ami: Ah, I see what you mean. Missed your comment before. I was starting to fume and skimmed down to reply to T4T; seeing an experience I’d also suffered through (though possible under different circumstances) being used by someone to try and guilt trip (or something) people who were trying to correct his flawed notions of how privilege works made me kinda pissy. Your reasoning is much sounder than mine.

    T4T: In light of Ami’s comment (yours wasn’t helpful; repeating something another just argued against without no effort to make your case probably isn’t going to make your position any clearer), I do have to agree with you that my abuse constituted a form of oppression. But the fact remains that your privilege doesn’t disappear when it isn’t immediately in effect any more than your legs (assuming you have them) disappear whenever you sit down.

  37. Amused

    Things just became extremly clear. This is the reason why I dont want feminists such as yourself trying to talk equality and justice for all. You keep up the good work for yourself and your like minded friends.

  38. Because they see through your misogynist bullhockey?

  39. Elizabeth

    Damn, you got me. I didnt think you could see that I was a woman hating, rape apologizing, in denial privileged white male. All those benefits that I derived from being born white with testicles seemed to have clouded my vision. To infinity and beyond, I now see the world is mine to take. Geez.

  40. Oh by the way Elizabeth, that is a very nice name. I was a little leery using it as a middle name for my daughter but I figured seeing that it was great name for my granny I put my hate for her aside and went for it.

  41. Tit-again with the pseudo attempts to be friendly-you do realise that most of us find it creepy right?

  42. Elizabeth

    I thought you were smarter than that. Sarcasm, thick.

  43. I need to scrub with a wire brush. Uck.

  44. Titfortat: So, it seemed like you were grasping, at least a little, the idea that when people talk about a “privilege,” they’re not saying that everything’s going to be perfect in every way for the person who has it, and shitty in every way for the person who doesn’t. And I could swear you said that you didn’t deny that white privilege and male privilege can exist, at least sometimes.

    And it also seemed like you were very on board with the idea of kyriarchy — which is a fancy word for what I’ve been calling intersectional privilege. After all, you brought kyriarchy into this discussion.

    But now you’re back to “All those benefits that I derived from being born white with testicles seemed to have clouded my vision. To infinity and beyond, I now see the world is mine to take.”

    I … I don’t get it.

  45. Bee

    Go back and re read and try to view the comments directed at me from my perspective. All of them. You then might get an idea of why I was sarcastic in my last couple of posts to Poster and Amused. If you then cant understand my frustration so be it. Mind you, even the fact that you think Im just grasping and not trying to have a legitimate thought makes me cautious with your feminism also.

  46. You are not frustrated, you are angry that we do not accept your premise that since you had bad things happen to you, you are oppressed and therefore privilege does not exist for a white male heterosexual such as yourself.

    Your examples are shoddy, your rebuttals are paltry and your attempts to be “friendly” are not sarcasm, they are creepy.

  47. Bee

    You just got a taste of what I mean. Elizabeth gave you an example. I never said privilege doesnt exist, I just dont agree that it exists as much in my favour as others want me to believe. Kyriarchy at least attempts to put a name to an overall issue, rather than gender specific.

  48. T4T: I don’t give a rat’s ass what you believe. And I know the reason you don’t like feminists like me — because women are, of course, small children living in pink palaces, and you get to mansplain life’s hard truths to them. About how you aren’t privileged and how what happened to you is the worst thing that any woman could ever imagine, living in her pink palace that doesn’t exist. Your sanctimoniousness won’t fool me, and I don’t think it fools anyone else either. Not only are you clearly sexist, entitled, and hypocritical, you are also a coward — attacking people’s word choice and relying on vague insinuations, rather than saying what you want to say and defending it.

  49. Amused

    I get you, I really do. I know the energy, been there done that.

  50. MRAL: kinda late to the thread so you might see it, but I cannot resist.

    women aren’t common, and thus, receive more attention and likely praise for their uniqueness

    In my experience, having been the first/one of the first/one of the few women in male-dominated areas (that are NOT the army and NOT computer science but HUMANITIES for crying out loud–because of my age! I was the ONLY woman Classics major in my first university) does not in fact lead to praise, or good attention, but harassment, bad attention, claims of affirmative action benefitting me (I went into classics after history because history dept. head told me that I’d only get a job because I was a woman, and I’d be taking it away from a man), and at that point (early 1970s) sexual harassment was, as Gloria Steinem, has explained “life.”

    And I’ve read accounts of women at West Point and women in computer science and yeah, NOT the praise, not the glory, not the positive attention–quite the opposite.

    Again: you don’t know shit about what you are talking about, so why do you keep claiming things that you know nothing about?

  51. Men's Rights Activist Lieuteant

    Well then the same could be said of men in female-dominated areas like nurturing or lower-grade teaching or anything else. You can’t have it both ways, my poor hypocrite fymynyst.

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