Arnold Schwarzenegger’s adultery: Blame the bitches!
Non-stop fun indeed!
Poor Arnold Schwarzenegger!
Picture the scene.
It’s January 1997. Arnold’s in a good mood, sitting in his den, paging through the latest issue of Variety. He chuckles to himself. Fuck the critics! Jingle All the Way is putting asses in the seats of the multiplexes of America, and that means money in the bank to the Terminator.
Suddenly, he hears the door to the room click shut behind him. It’s that devious maid again, with her wily, sexy Latin ways! “Que pasa?” she says, running her hands through his hair. He’s still not quite sure what that phrase means, exactly, but it seems to have a hypnotic effect on him, and his penis. He pulls the maid to him.
The next minute and a half are a blur. “Curses!” he mutters to himself, as he realizes that, once again, the wily maid has lured his hapless penis into her vaginal cavity. But it’s too late. The penis has released its precious load. “Me han robado tu esperma,” she hisses. “¿Dónde está la biblioteca?”
This, give or take a few of the details, seems to be how the author of the Rebuking Feminism blog imagines the events that led to the birth of Arnold’s love-child 14 years ago. Yep: in his version of events, it’s the women – both the maid, Patty Baena, and wife Maria – who are responsible for Arnold’s indiscretions:
Maria Shriver should have known better than to let any half way decent looking woman spend so much time in the house. The whole ballgame changes when a man reaches Arnold’s status. Women come begging to be f***ed by you. Women practically disrobe and spread when guys like Arnold walk in the room. I’m sure he abstained plenty of times but women like this maid wait for her opportunity when in such close proximity.
It’s tough, I guess, to be a freakishly huge, fabulously wealthy alpha male who wants to fuck everything in sight. But tougher indeed to be a beta:
As is quite common with the type of situation that took place with Arnold, I’m sure this little whore took her prized bastard back home to be raised by her oblivious, committed, and cuckolded beta male husband.
Some people might say, hey, isn’t Arnold partially to blame for cuckolding that little whore’s cuckolded beta male husband? No. It’s important to remember: he’s a victim too, and obviously not responsible for the sexual activity that Mrs. Baena lured him into with her fiery Latin vagina.
Maria may now file for divorce. The only people to end up completely fu*ked here will be the two men…Arnold for engaging in adultery (and the price only men have to pay for it) and the man that was cuckolded by his adulterous whore wife and will have to pay for it as well. Men bear liability to women on both sides of the equation. Men have no rights.
Now all Maria and Patty need to do is sit back and collect the cash. Ka-ching-gle All the Way!
EDITED TO ADD: The author of the post has added a response to my post as a addendum to his original post. The gist of it:
Arnold and his impropriety was not the intended focus of this article. I take it as common knowledge among my readers that what Arnold did was obviously wrong. This was not the point of the article.
The point of this article was to illustrate how adultery is supported by law on one end (the female end) and not supported by law on the male end.
Posted on May 22, 2011, in antifeminism, bad boys, beta males, evil women, I'm totally being sarcastic, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, precious bodily fluids, sex, sluts, vaginas. Bookmark the permalink. 674 Comments.
Arnie, everyone here already knows that it was women who didn’t want the vote, but that doesn’t matter. That icky part of history must be rewritten so men can be oppressors. Hatred must be maintained.
Seriously, you are just dumb as a box of hair, aren’t you?
Nobody’s going to pick on this bit of statistics fail?
We have a 50% divorce rate which means there is a 50% chance of this happening to me.
Why not just say those guys were good and noble, but you slave, your a worthless piece of shit that should’ve been aborted. That I can accept.
Ah, we agree on something at last.
“I already went over this before, the reason divorce rates are down is because marriage rates are way down. ”
Cite needed.
And also, who cares if marriage rates are down? How does that hurt you? Especially if you don’t want to get married? Marriage has never, in the history of humankind, guaranteed anything other legal rights. It doesn’t guarantee happiness, respect, or children.
NWO, you might want to point that marxists.org link out to Arnie here, as the piece there was by a socialist opposed to women’s suffrage. Arnie, how does this happen if socialism and feminism are the same thing?
Also, NWO, no one is saying you should have been aborted. If people here dislike you it is because of what you say, not who you are.
Oops. I guess I spoke too soon. Well, NWO, *I* don’t think you should have been aborted.
Actually, Dave, I was being tongue-in-cheek. I really don’t think NWO should have been aborted. Just so we’re clear.
Okay, let me go over this step by step for the clueless (aka Arnie):
1) at conception, the people own their respective gametes.
2) If the fertilized eggs are outside of either progenitor’s body, they belong to both equally (see cases of IVF disputes)
3) If the fertilized egg is inside of the progenitor, that pregnant person has the sole right to abort
4) If the fertilized egg is inside of a third party, that third party has the sole right to abort (see surrogacy cases)
5) After birth, the progenitors have equal rights and responsibilities (or should, surrogacy and “birth mother” laws can get wonky).
6) After birth, neither progenitor has the right to financially abandon the infant if the other takes custody, barring the other’s consent.
But, wait a minute-where does that bit number 4 and 2 come in? The egg provider has no more rights than the sperm provider if the embryo is not inside of them? Yes, that is the case. And someone who provided neither egg nor sperm has the right to abort other folk’s embryos? Yes, that is the case. As a matter of law, the right to abort is conditioned on being the pregnant party, not on being the egg provider (i.e. bio mom). Granted, in practice the large majority of cases involve the egg provider being the pregnant person, but it is the pregnant status that grants the right, not the egg provider status. So, to point out the obvious, the right to abortion does stem from the fact that the fetus is within the person’s uterus. But why does this give the pregnant person the sole right to abort?
1) Pregnancy causes permanent physical changes (see for example forensic anthroplogists’ methodolies to figure out how many births a skeleton delivered).
2) Pregnancy carries a substantial risk of death, serious injury, scarring, and/or other injuries.
3) Pregnancy can not only be dangerous (see 2), but can also be uncomfortable physically (e.g. things like morning sickness) and emotionally (imagine you have something in your guts wiggling around like an alien larva).
4) Pregnancy carries social risks-pregnant people are discriminated against in employment opportunity and educational settings (these can also be disrupted by pregnancy and delivery as well) as well as in social settings.
5) Giving birth is generally painful-it requires, you know, labor or major surgery.
6) Pregnant people are generally subject to invasive medical prodecures throughout the pregnancy, certainly including but not limited to issues surrounding the delivery itself. (Ever had a dude stick his hand up your genitals while you poop yourself in front of a whole room of people-because my mom has)
7) Pregnant people are expected to bear the costs of supporting the pregnancy, such as medical expenses, housing, food, water, etc.
8)Pregnant people have the fetus literally living inside of their guts.
It should be pretty apparent, then, that pregnancy imposes additional burdens on the pregnant person, even if we were to assume the pregnant person would be allowed to abandon the infant at birth (which, face it, is the exact opposite of how most cases work in real life), that the non-pregnant people are not subject to. Considering the gravity of these burdens, the pregnant person has the right to early termination of the pregnancy.
Now, let me address the core complaints of the obstinate (aka NWO):
1) We do not care about life. Seriously. Cockroaches are alive, tumors are alive, lice are alive, sperm are alive, plants are alive. Really, life is not what we care about, it is personhood.
2) Persons have thoughts and emotions. This is the necessary feature, not having “unique DNA”. Tumors have unique DNA, monozygotic twins do not. Yet we know the former is not a person, and the later is two people.
3) Fetuses do not have the brain development needed for such thoughts until rather late in the pregnancy (this is disputed, but the smooth frontal lobe at 15 wks puts 95% or so of abortions before it is even a serious question).
4) Okay, let’s suppose that fetuses are people. That still does not get you what you want. We do not require any other person, even negligent people, to allow use of their bodies or organs without consent by another. If I hit person B with my car because I was driving drunk, I would not be legally required to give B my kidney so B could live, even if the kidney fails due to my reckless behavior. B is certainly a person, and it is even my “fault” that B is in the situation (I do not think this is comparable to sex, but I am allowing the opposition the strongest possible sensible argument here), but not only am I not required to give B my blood or organs, I am legally protected from being forced to do so. The fact is that no other person has this right that you purport a fetus has-to nonconsensual use of another person’s organs. Voluntary rescue is not a counterpoint, because your opponents are perfectly fine with the fact that some women elect to donate their wombs’ use temporarily, just as people are fine if some people donate their kidneys, but not if it is forced.
OMG Supernatural Love!! (I am so pissed at Comcast, they totally fucked up our installation at our new house and we missed recording the season finale on our TiVo!)
/end off topic
So to the whole abortion thing…
When it comes to reproduction biology made men and women unequal. That’s just how it is, nature’s a bitch. So, ya know, it sucks that women are the only ones who have to go through pregnancy or abortion but that’s the way it is. And we can argue until the cows come home about whether a fetus is a human life but it is most certainly not a SEPARATE life – if it was we could just take it out and continue incubating it in a nice soft little fluid-filled pod for a few months until it was ready to be born. I’m sure someday we’ll have technology that can do this at which point men’s and women’s rights in regards to fetuses will become more equal. In the meantime, don’t blame feminism for the inequality – blame biology. For fuck’s sake, I sure as hell wouldn’t have designed it this way if anyone gave ME the choice! I would have started out with pods first thing!
Hmm, I think the avian species call them eggs :)
To your list of risks of pregnancy, DSC, I would add post-partum depression, which my wife had after both our sons were born. It’s the primary reason we’re not having any more.
@darksidecat
Excellent use of State law which is the only thing that gives you that “right” and clear your concience. In the end abortion = death, becuase the product of a succesful abortion is a dead person. After an abortion the woman is as whole as she ever was, no part of her is dead. Therefore, not her body.
In the second part of your screed you list all the many things a woman does. Thank you once again. Ladies be sure to tell your fathers what peices of shit they are for doing nothing in the way of support, care, finances, worry, ect. I’m sure they’ll be pleased to hear it.
The final part of your lecture is simply to ease your concience of the murder you commit or support. Unless you can produce a live child roughly 9 months after conception that person is dead.
NWOSlave – Uh, how exactly did we go from “pregnancy does a bunch of crappy things to women’s bodies” to “fathers are pieces of shit”? Quit it. Seriously, just STOP PUTTING WORDS IN PEOPLE’S MOUTHS!!
For the record, my dad is pretty awesome.
@Plymouth…NO he’s not, here is the list of who does what. He bore no inconvience, worry, burden, finance or care. Love. Nothing.
1) Pregnancy causes permanent physical changes (see for example forensic anthroplogists’ methodolies to figure out how many births a skeleton delivered).
2) Pregnancy carries a substantial risk of death, serious injury, scarring, and/or other injuries.
3) Pregnancy can not only be dangerous (see 2), but can also be uncomfortable physically (e.g. things like morning sickness) and emotionally (imagine you have something in your guts wiggling around like an alien larva).
4) Pregnancy carries social risks-pregnant people are discriminated against in employment opportunity and educational settings (these can also be disrupted by pregnancy and delivery as well) as well as in social settings.
5) Giving birth is generally painful-it requires, you know, labor or major surgery.
6) Pregnant people are generally subject to invasive medical prodecures throughout the pregnancy, certainly including but not limited to issues surrounding the delivery itself. (Ever had a dude stick his hand up your genitals while you poop yourself in front of a whole room of people-because my mom has)
7) Pregnant people are expected to bear the costs of supporting the pregnancy, such as medical expenses, housing, food, water, etc.
8)Pregnant people have the fetus literally living inside of their guts.
Also to add to your lists of who has the right to abort, Darksidecat :) Pregnant men have the legal right over their own bodies and whether to abort or not (and yes still are considered legal men too, so any laws that apply to men also apply to them, but there is no law that says men cannot abort fetuses in their bodies :) ) Just to again hammer home the fact that it’s about body autonomy, and it is just incidental that almost all pregnancies are carried by women, it’s not a conspiracy :) (Ami’s razor: the truest explanation does not require convoluted and often self contradictory feminist conspiracies xD except when it comes to dinosaurs…)
And Plymouth, that sucks :( The finale is on tonight for us! :O Too bad I can’t invite you over to catch it D: I wonder what will happen to Cass :\ He wun be back for the next season :(
NWOSlave – Please go learn some BASIC LOGIC and then come back and talk to us.
“Group A did a bunch of stuff that group B did not” does not imply “Therefore group B did nothing”.
BASIC ELEMENTARY LOGIC. Are you, like, 4 years old or something?
Yeah, I’m still not reading “father’s are pieces of shit” in what DSC wrote.
I’m a father who loves his boys more than anything. I did not, however, carry them in my body at any point. Nor did I have to pass them out of a small bodily orifice. Nor did I have to let them chew on a very sensitive part of my body in order for them to feed.
My wife did all those things. Yet it does not in any way negate my contribution to caring for or loving my boys. Both/and. See how it works?
When I hear a list of things women have to go through during pregnancy, my first reaction isn’t “goddam women think fathers aren’t worth shit!” My first reaction is “Whew! I’m glad I didn’t have to do that!”
Then I go change another diaper, because that’s something I can do. That’s what I consider being a real man.
Maybe NWOslave is so angry because he’ll never be able to have a baby?
I’m sry :( I empathize completely about the not knowing your family history and etc :\ cuz that’s my family history too :( One giant black hole before my parents’ families fled their homes and their country b/c of evil ppl and an evil regime and any family left behind they dunno what happened to :( It’s awful :( And I often feel left out when ppl discuss their long family histories also, so you’re not alone :] I’m so sry you have that sort of tragedy in your family history too :\
Not being able to have a biological child isn’t an excuse for becoming a member of the abuser’s lobby. If it’s about babies, he can always adopt one or go foster one or volunteer with kids.
^ I am all for that :D I always advocate ppl to volunteer and to help out :) There’s so much guys can do to help other guys (if they dun trust women to help men and they dun want to help women) :) Volunteer is one! Help at a community centre, or youth shelter :D There’s so much talk of boys w/o male role models here, but there’s also lots of men here who care about it and can go and be those role models that they are concerned boys lack :D And they can help boys grow up to be aware and avoid the pitfalls that they talk about and are concerned about :) Arguing ideology and working for a better future is one part of activism, helping the present and real ppl who are suffering & reducing how awful things are even if it’s just for one single boy is another part :D
@ami, pregnant non-women were included in most of my list of points, only two sidenotes used the phrase “women” or “mom” (three if you count the fact the mention of my specific mom).
@NWO, I did not discuss mother’s raising children either in my abortion bit, and I explicitly made a statement that the pregnant person considered is not necessarily the biological or intended mother. Nothing about emotional attachments and worries about the potential infant was discussed on either side. Think about the surrogacy case again-the surrogate is the pregnant person with the right to abort. The intended mother and intended father have equal status and equal potential for emotional attachment to the fetus. To go back to my car example, your argument is basically “well, B’s family member is emotionally hurt, so the family member should be able to forcibly chop out your kidney”, but that is not something we allow in issues of bodily autonomy. Shit, I could be a violent and bizarre person who chopped out B’s kidneys and ate them Hanibal Lecter style and they still would not have that right to use my organs without my consent.
Sidenote: While many fathers are absolutely wonderful and loving parents, you picked a bad example with me, NWO, because my father is an abusive, alcoholic, narcissist crackhead. He called my sister while she was in labor to whine about his headache from a hangover and put a girlfriend in the hospital last year with three broken ribs, a broken jaw, and several missing teeth. Right now, he is in jail for DUI, reckless endangerment, and destruction of property because he almost ran over a guy and crashed his car into a house. Not precisely a shining jewel of humanity. “He bore no inconvience, worry, burden, finance or care. Love. Nothing.” is basically his standard operating procedure with all humans, except himself. Not that my mother was ever parent of the year either, but self centered sporadically abusive neurotic actually edges out “are you quite sure this guy isn’t a psychopath?” My older sister was the person most responsible for raising me, and, I feel as if this needs explained to you, she did not bear any of the pregnancy burdens on my list either (at least for me, she has two kids now).
oh ok i missed that :) I didn’t mean to imply that you didn’t care btw, it is just important to point out and am glad you put it there :D
[ break rule re NWO ]
1: You are worse than anit on the basic principles of logic.
2: Murder is the killing of a legal person.
3: Fetuses are not legal persons.
4: Your religious beliefs (which I infer from your screeds at Holly about how she can’t be, “moral” and accept legal abortion; esp. because she goes to some form of religious study) are immaterial at law (unless you think religious law should have weight, in which case… well that gets really messy).
5: Your religious beliefs are not universal. I infer you are some form of christian. Do you believe in transubstantiation? Are you a trinitarian? Are you an Arian, or a Nestorian? Do you have some aspects of Manicheaen beliefs? How do you feel about infant baptism? Are you a millenialist? If you are you dispensational? If you are dispensational are you pre, or post-millenialist in your dispensationalism? Can women be ministers? Priest? Deacons? Do you accept an episcopacy? A presbytery? is anyone able to read the scriptures and interpret them, or is there a formalised system of instruction?
That list just touches the surface of the differences which exist in Christianity. It doesn’t go into Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Voudun, Santeria, Wicca etc. (all of which are practiced by enough people in the US to merit consideration.
6: Life isn’t sacred, not in the way you are talking about it. We toss human life away all the time. We don’t fund healthcare. We have wars. We engage in capital punishment (Which the Catholic Church actually condemns more harshly than it does abortion; not that the bishops in this country seem to care). We starve children because their parents can’t find work (and then add insult to injury by blaming the parents and calling them “welfare queens”).
Life in this country is talked about as if it were this all-important thing, and hypocrites like you use abortion as a club to beat people with.
Screw that. I think living people matter more than not-yet-people. Maybe the fact that I spent a whole lot of time killing people for a living (16 years in the Army, and a stretch in a war zone) has made me callous, but I felt that way before i joined up (I was 25, so it’s not like I was completely wet behind the ears).
Hell, the religious groups in the world used to not care. It wasn’t until the 1880s that churches got down on abortions. Prior to that getting one before “quickening” (the time at which the fetus starts to move) was just fine.
I’ve gone over the ethical questions. I’ve looked at the logic of the arguments, and I have yet to see an honest one. One that doesn’t equivocate, or end up with, “but think of the children”, while also saying'; out the other side of it’s mouth, “ignore the woman.”
So you want someone to say it… I will. If it’s killing, it’s killing. We do it all the time, and the questions aren’t if or when but whom. That being the case I’ll choose to kill an incoherent fetus over the “inconvenience” it might cause to an aware, adult, person.
If that bothers you, if it angers you, if it offends your “wa”, and gives you a case of butt-hurt.
I
Don’t
Care.
/break rule on NWO
Also I was trying to make it clear b/c I know a lot of ppl tend to assume gender even if you’re using neutral terms when talking about pregnancy :(
I’m a cis-gendered bisexual woman. There’s a very good change that at some point, I will to raise a child with another uterus-haver. Maybe I would get myself knocked up; maybe my partner would. I’m comfortable with both options.
If my partner were the one who carried the pregnancy, zie would have the right to abort at any time, and I would be okay with that. If I got cold feet, or the relationship dissolved, I would be okay with paying child support.
The idea that the pregnant person–and zie alone–gets to decide the fate of the pregnancy seems totally fair to me.
So does the idea that if two people make a mutual decision which leads to a pregnancy, then they should share the responsibility for any resulting children.
In practice, applying both these principles does disadvantage those without uteri. But since reproduction is an inherently unequal situation, it is still the least unfair compromise.
“To not have to be relegated to those roles if we don’t want to be and be able to pursue any career from coal miner to computer programmer as we wish”
Why don’t men have the choice to stay home?
“To have the right to our own bodies, to use them as we most desire, with neither legal nor social interference.”
Why don’t men have rights to our own bodies and the fruits of it’s labor?
“What more do women want? How about equality.”
What is this even supposed to mean?
Arnie: I’m having a hard time figuring out what needs “fixing,” in your opinion.
Well, I just think that men should be needed as part of the family and not stripped of the right to our property, our children our bodies and the fruits of it’s labor.
I just wish women had commitments, responsibilities. accountability and reciprocal obligations.
http://rebukingfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/05/save-turnips.html
“Why don’t men have the choice to stay home?”
They do. Or at least as much as any woman has.
“Why don’t men have rights to our own bodies and the fruits of it’s labor?”
We do.
“Abortion is not about “absolving oneself of responsibility” although I am sure that financial factors are major considerations in many abortions. A woman could choose to give birth and give the child up for adoption if that was all it was about.”
“For a Childfree person like myself, abortion is about not wanting to accept the permanent and often devastating medical effects of pregnancy and childbirth.”
Abortion to you is about avoiding the medical effects of pregnancy and childbirth??? What about how conception affects your life or the life of the father? Shouldn’t abortion be about this rather than simply a means to avoid continued pregnancy? I just don’t understand who you see abortion or lack of abortion as something that only affects women?
“MRAs seem to define egalitarianism in reproduction as “men get to make all the final decisions regardless of what everyone else wants or who has to deal with the consequences, including children.”
Male abortion is not about having the final decision, it is about having one in the first place. No one ever said women could not have their own choice in the matter. What you are afraid of is that male choice will be a type coercion that affects your full power to decide over not only your life, but the child’s life and the life of the man. You are afraid that if a man had a choice in the matter it would affect yours.
Actaully, Arnie, most of the feminists I know would love to see more rights for fathers. And in some European countries fathers get just as much time off with their babies as mothers do. And I don’t think any mother – whose child’s father is a good father – would begrudge him the time home with his child.
As for rights to your bodies? What aren’t you getting?
“I’d say “chivalry” ranks a distant third. And at least in the case of my great-grandfather it was his choice to stay behind. Many men did get into the lifeboats, and as a fairly famous guy in first class he could have gotten onto a lifeboat if he had so chosen.”
Men were trained as chattel then as we are now. Our lives, welfare, safety, protection and provision is less important than a woman’s. Well it is a lie. Women’s lives are not more important than men’s.
“You are afraid that if a man had a choice in the matter it would affect yours.”
Uhm… Yeah actually. Since a woman’s body is the one that takes the full brunt of a pregnancy and a man’s doesn’t. Sort of makes the decision to abort or not much more important to a pregnant woman than the guy who got her pregnant…
Arnie: They do. I’ve done it. I’ve been the stay at home partner. I’ve been a primary caregiver for a child.
What makes it hard to do that is idiots like NWO, and (to be honest) you, spouting nonsense about how women run the world and the system is unfair to men.
No one is stripping you of rights to your body, etc. You want to avoid the risks of supporting someone who is dependent; because you didn’t work to prevent them becoming dependent, then do that.
If you don’t, well, you chose to have sex; you knew the risks.
The reason we see abortion as being, when all is said and done, about the woman in the equation, is because she (disproportionately… really disproportionately; as in life and limb at risk) bears the burdens. Then, if the dude bails, she bears most of the monetary costs as well.
You complain about how, “a man can’t walk away.” Well look at the stats, lots of men do walk away. The walk away when the find out she’s pregnant. They walk away when she files for divorce. They walk away when they’ve been paying child support and they want to spend that money on a new girlfriend.
Then, some of them, just to be assholes, find the money to protest when their ex (and the kids they’ve been refusing to support) wants to move to have a better life. All of a sudden they have the money to contest that, and say they “need to be a part of my childrens’ lives.”
So yeah, on the books a guy is on the hook. In real life, not really.
How not really? So not really they had to pass a law saying one can’t get a passport issued/renewed if one has a federal order for back child support.
Laws get passed when some group is committing a breach of the common good. That law means there are a lot of people reneging on child support. Since men are usually the non-custodial parent, that means men are usually the ones refusing to pay child support.
“The captain must have been a woman. You know, women driver, amirite?”
“Totally, totally right.”
A woman would have never been captain because a woman would have never been aggressive enough to build a ship in the first place. Male aggression forged the way for that ship to be there in the first place. Male aggression forges the way for all of us and all women can do is complain that men are aggressive.
Yes, no women have ever been captains or the forerunners in human innovation. And yet, even with this logic? Men are the marginalized gender.
Okay, let me go over this step by step for the clueless (aka Arnie):
“1) at conception, the people own their respective gametes.
2) If the fertilized eggs are outside of either progenitor’s body, they belong to both equally (see cases of IVF disputes)
3) If the fertilized egg is inside of the progenitor, that pregnant person has the sole right to abort”
Sole right??? No one ever contested her sole right to abort, what is contested is the equal male right to abort. The choice to abort in most cases has nothing to do with the consequences of the pregnancy process but rather it is done for lifestyle choice as to the ramifications of conception of an unwanted pregnancy.
Again, no one ever said that women should not have the right to abort. What was stated is that men should have the right as well.
Arnie: “You are afraid that if a man had a choice in the matter it would affect yours.” No, as a man I’m not, directly affected by this.
As a moral being, I care. That sort of careless coercion, is reprehensible. The whole myth of the “sperm stealing woman” is bizarre. I’ve seen a lot of custody fights, and the thing I see in them is, 1: they start because the guy decides it’s not his responsibility to support his kids.
2: It’s hard on the woman (and the kids)
3: Child support payments are never enough to make up for the loss of income that comes of being a single parent.
4: The kids suffer. The guys gets hassled. The courts let him get away with refusing to pay.
Those are moral wrongs. Those are moral wrongs done (by and large) by men; to women and children.
Someone has to decide on the issue of bearing to term. There is only one person who can (ethically) be given that choice. The pregnant person (who will be a woman, until, and unless, men can get pregnant [hey, didn't "Ahnuld" make a movie about that?]).
You can’t get pregnant. That means you don’t get to decide. The same way I don’t get to decide about you donating a kidney; even if the person who needs it needs it because you did something intentionally harmful to them. The courts can’t even make it a quid pro quo (give the kidney and get out of jail).
You want to be sure you never have a kid. Get snipped, or stick to your hand. Otherwise, you may be responsibile to the child. Not the woman. The child.
She is responsible to it too, and she’s going to pay a lot more than you ever will.
So, deal with it.
“Again, no one ever said that women should not have the right to abort. What was stated is that men should have the right as well.”
And again, I totally agree. Men who get pregnant should have the right to abort.
Arnie: I begin to think you have never read any history, nor yet known any women.
Queen Elizabeth. Hathupset. Cheng Shi
Women are not fundamentally inferior to men. And… the captain of the Titanic, didn’t build it. Didn’t design it. Didn’t actually sail it. He was in charge of a bunch of people (from the “black gang” to the helmsmen) who did the work.
He was a manager.
Arnie: I’m repeating my question: At what point in the pregnancy is the “male right to abort” terminated?
Questions for you Arnie.
What did your dad pay in child support? What was the reasons given for your dad to be denied parenting you? (the legal ones)
How do you feel about your mom? What did each of your parents say about each other?
“Why don’t men have the choice to stay home?”
They do. Or at least as much as any woman has.
No women will not allow this. Women will not marry men who are less successful than they are to begin with. Most all women do not plan on having a man stay home while they are the more successful breadwinner nor does their biology prefer this.
“Why don’t men have rights to our own bodies and the fruits of it’s labor?”
We do.
No we do not as it is mandated that men perform labor for women and give them the fruits thereof or be placed in a cage. You call this control over ones body?
@spitfire…Heres what you said
“Uhm… Yeah actually. Since a woman’s body is the one that takes the full brunt of a pregnancy and a man’s doesn’t. Sort of makes the decision to abort or not much more important to a pregnant woman than the guy who got her pregnant…”
Here again is the problem. When a man and woman have a child the man will go out and work very hard to ensure her comfort. He does this as an extra effort, a concious choice do ensure the wellbeing of both her and his child. Her pregnancy is not a concious effort, its a biological function, she doesn’t suffer any discomfort by seeking it out. Also women aren’t suffering from the major discomforts from day one, none of them know they’ve concieved. If women “knew” they concieved there would be no such thing as a pregnancy test. They’ll only know without a test by multiple missed periods or they begin to show, which is after months. It’s only very late in the pregnancy that any discomfort is felt, and there was no effort into acquiring this discomfort.
Thank you for the sympathy, David and others. I clutch my children tight at night grateful to have them. Some of my neighbors perished, and others don’t know if their loved ones are alive or dead. I know my house can be rebuilt but you can’t get people back. I’ll be fine with time and perhaps some crisis counseling.
I want to reiterate that both men and women in my city have been working around the clock to help each other find shelter, clean clothes, medical care, and food. I have never seen such an outpouring of compassion from so many people. A nearby town’s senior class donated all of their senior trip money to Red Cross relief efforts. People have bought new toys for my kids to cheer them up. They needed that after the traumatic experience of huddling in a basement closet while your house above is blasted by an F4/5 twister.
This past week has really shown me how most people are generally good. Altruism, self sacrifice, and unconditional love come naturally to people. When disasters occur, you would never believe the ordinary men and women around you can so quickly step up to the plate and become heroes. The MRA’s are too pessimistic about human nature, believing women are out to get them somehow. The truth is that many of those women, as well as men, would risk their own life to help them in a crisis.
“Uhm… Yeah actually. Since a woman’s body is the one that takes the full brunt of a pregnancy and a man’s doesn’t. Sort of makes the decision to abort or not much more important to a pregnant woman than the guy who got her pregnant…”
No one ever said which is more important. Women can abort if they want to…and so can men.
“No one is stripping you of rights to your body, etc. You want to avoid the risks of supporting someone who is dependent; because you didn’t work to prevent them becoming dependent, then do that.”
“If you don’t, well, you chose to have sex; you knew the risks.”
And what risks do women bear in divorce?
And men DO have the right to abort! :D Ppl who are pregnant have the right to their bodies and to that pregnancy (this isn’t even about legality, it’s just the ability of ppl to control their own bodies, abortion law exists to limit and control and ban abortion, not to allow it, b/c without the state, abortion would be de facto allowed (look at Canada) ) :)
But if it helps for ppl who are concerned about the law, male abortion is abs legal, and men who get pregnant have the exact same rights as women who do :) (and women who can impregnate others have the same rights as men who do as well) :)
Unfortunately some ppl carry children and others do not… :( who can abort is about reality, not ideology… unfortunately we aren’t at the point where most men can carry their own children :(
Maybe one day! :D
Arnie: re men at home. You are wrong. I was the stay at home partner. I made less money. I looked after the animals, and the garden. I cooked the meals, and did the housework.
I am entering a new relationship on much the same terms.
The previous one lasted ten years. We are still close. I am (with my fiancée) going to spend time with her next week. Why? Because she wants to meet my fiancée, and I want to see the snakes and the horses again (before I move 3,000 miles).
You have a mistaken idea of what “women” want. Mostly because you have a mistaken idea of what women are.
Men can’t abort, unless they are pregnant. What men can do (and often, usually; in fact) get away with, is abandoning the children
Trying to call it something else doesn’t change what it is.
*offers Kendra e-hugs if she wants them* :(
“Arnie: I’m repeating my question: At what point in the pregnancy is the “male right to abort” terminated?”
At such point that a woman’s equal right to terminate ends.
Arnie: What risks do women bear in divorce (with children)?
Lesee… Ex-husbands who refuse to visit the kids (or who jerk around with visitation schedules).
Ex-husbands who refuse to pay child support
Loss of income, because they don’t get promoted because they have kids.
A harder time dating because lots of men don’t want to date someone with kids.
Extra expenses, because they are the primary provider for the children (again, because child support payments don’t cover the real cost of rearing children).
That’s the basics.
The guy… maybe he has to pay support, but if he skips the odds of getting caught, much less having to pay all of it… slim to none.
Uhm. Yeah. You tell all the women who have issues with their bodies (not the way they look, real, actual problems with the way it functions) that they didn’t suffer from having a child. (Oh wait, you are!) And yeah, ALL men go out and work hard to ensure that the woman has extra comfort… only they don’t. Which is why we’re having this conversation. Sure, some of them do. Most father’s do in fact, but there are still a significant amount that don’t. Then there’s the fact that some women continue working until they have their child because they can’t afford to do otherwise.
As for Arnie’s silly comment about women risking things in divorce? Yeah… None of them ever get the raw end of the deal *eye roll*
And I agree with Ami, at some point hopefully men can carry a baby to term. Then they can choose to abort or not. If you want the right, start supporting the research. It’s out there.
@Ami Angelwings…No Amy, before State intervention abortion was unlawful. Under constitutional and common law ALL human life was represented from the moment of conception. We hold these truths to be self evident that everyone has the right to LIFE liberty and the persuit of happiness. The right to life, the very first right has been usurped by the State.
Fairly certain the reason why Roe v. Wade went the way it did was because under constitutional law it says NOTHING about fetuses being full persons with full rights to life.
Hmmm Holly vs NWOslave for the MBZ World Championship
And Pecunium vs Arnie for the MBZ North American Championship… in a … cage match! :D
looks like a good top of a PPV card :D
Just need a name for the PPV now…
@spitfire…And all women don’t allow a person the right to live, which is worse?
@spitfire…Than no one here is a full person because you have the exact DNA you started with.
YES! I knew he was reading my posts >:D
XDDDDD
(also it’s hilarious how you adore the state so much when it’ll enforce laws you want, and a worldview you want xD)
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS >:D
Abortion and a woman’s body is irrelevant. Abortion is inconsequential besides the emotional trauma on both sides. Sure, she can abort or not abort for any reason again no one said “who gets to decide”. What is consequential is conception brought to term.
MOST ALL abortion decisions are not made for health issues they are made based on the later element listed above. In this case being that abortion is about aborting responsibility and ramifications of conception men have the equal right to do the same. A woman can choose to abort during the same time period alloted.
Men have just as much right to walk away as women have the right to force men into conception. Legally only one half of this picture exists which is forcing men to conceive. The other half is not in law yet but it should be. No one should have control over a man’s body and his right to conceive or not conceive a child.
@Ami Angelwings…I want no State. The State does nothing for me.
Arnie: Does that end date take into account the practical aspects of obtaining an abortion?
I don’t think a fetus gets the same rights to life as a person who has already had 12-40 years of life in the world. Sorry.
@spitfire…That much is clear, The unborn have no rights. They are by LAW completely at your tender mercy.
That was the alley-oop folks xD
go for it xD
(xDDDDDDDD )
I am currently in a relationship much like the one Pecunium describes. I actually know quite a few men who make less than their partners.
“What did your dad pay in child support? What was the reasons given for your dad to be denied parenting you? (the legal ones)”
Not sure but it was enough to where food, good food was tight. I don’t know how he did it but somehow he would come up with money to buy me a toy. He worked really heard to have a toy for me when I came to see him. He lived in a virtually empty apartment. He had a stereo and a bed. We ate macaronni and cheese and other cheep garbage. His money went to my mother or they would put him in a cage.
He was always worried about finding more work because he worked in garage door repair per job. There were no reasons for revoking his rights to fatherhood, men are denied parenting by default. The role of the father is not father it is visitor and as such the visitor in the child’s life is afforded 4 days a month to visit. He is lucky because eventually he made himself a successful business and is no longer poor.
“How do you feel about your mom? What did each of your parents say about each other?”
I feel fine about her. Never any bad feelings. I love my mom. My father never talked bad about my mother once. My mother would talk bad about my father and so would my step father. My father is one of the warmest, kind hearted and loving people I know. He has a HUGE heart. He is so kind loving and warm it can be described as even naive or innocent. He did not deserve what happened to him.
When I was in 5th grade my mother and step father moved half way across the country. My father only saw me once a year. I always knew that when I got old enough I wanted to live with my father. I did that when I reached 7th grade. I told my mother.