Be Aggressive! Be, Be Aggressive!
Go Bobcats!
Recently, in the comments to my Secret Life as a Group of Women post, our old friend evilwhitemaleempire offered this intriguing theory as to why I started this blog:
Your just a runt.
You put up that picture of Charles Altas so folks will think your not.
Your entire adult life has been about coping with the aggressive sexual displays of bigger, taller, more attractive men by throwing anti-male grenades at them. That’s why your a feminist. … you support the false rape/harassment industry because it acts to jail all those better men you can’t compete with.
You and your mangina ilk are what you have always been since high school. Nerds who think they can win the cheerleader if they can get the football captain jailed as a rapist.
I can’t fault his logic here, though evil here is making several incorrect assumptions that call into question his conclusion. One, I don’t actually support sending innocent men to jail on false rape charges, even if they were the captain of the football team in high school. Two, even in high school, I was never interested in the cheerleader type; as a nerdy alternative-music-loving slacker guy, I was much more interested in the girls who listened to The Jam rather than Journey. Also, the high school I went to was basically a high school for nerds; even the cheerleaders were a little nerdy. We didn’t have a football team; our basketball team was legendary for the length of its losing streak, while our chess team, meanwhile, racked up victory after victory.
But enough about my high school. The key point here is that manosphere dudes have somehow managed to convince themselves, despite massive evidence to the contrary, that sexual attraction is a very simple and straightforward thing: men want cheerleaders and Hooters waitresses; women want jocks and thugs. These are iron-clad rules, and apply to everyone, including the nerdiest of nerds and the feministest of feminists. (By everyone, of course, I mean cis heteros; manosphere dudes have no real theories about lgbt sexuality, and tend to forget it exists.)
So evil assumes that I (and presumably the rest of the feminist guys out there) have adopted feminism as a way to get into the pants of the cheerleaders who wouldn’t date us in high school. On the flip side, manosphere dudes often assume, bizarrely, that feminist women are all secretly obsessed with boning thuggish jocks.
In reality, of course, people tend to be interested in and attracted to people basically like them: gym rats go for gym rats, nerds for nerds, goths for goths, lawyers for lawyers, and so on, and so on, and scooby dooby doo.
To illustrate this point, I’d like to present some relevant anthropological data, in the form of video footage of the “aggressive sexual display” of one “alpha male” of a certain subspecies of homo sapiens. You will notes that this mating dance has attracted the attention of a female of the same type — and not a feminist. Unfortunately, as far as well can tell from the video itself, the dance did not result in successful copulation. In the end, our subject finds himself competing against the aggressive display of another male of the same type.
Posted on May 1, 2011, in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. 220 Comments.
Oh, I think you can fault his logic. There isn’t any.
It’s fascinating from a psychological POV: the animosity and admiration for big,tall,attractive men who make aggressive sexual displays directed at smaller,shorter,less attractive men.
The MRA obsession with footballers and cheerleaders is making me fear that “Glee” is for real. Tell me it isn’t so, America.
The links are working now.
Two, even in high school, I was never interested in the cheerleader type; as a nerdy alternative-music-loving slacker guy, I was much more interested in the girls who listened to The Jam rather than Journey.
Wait wait wait.
Are you seriously saying there was a time when Journey was… cool?
That might be your most outrageous assertion yet.
I just lost all interest in sex for the next 100 years. My future husband blames EWME.
I’m so glad you’re back up and running. I used those links you had on the left side of your page frequently. Will you be maintaining those link lists here? I’m completely unfamiliar with this format.
Oh, never mind, David. I realized that I was on Mobile view. I can see you have them here. Still love your blog and check it daily!
I’ve noticed that EWME lends itself to the pronunciation “Ewwww, me.” I think this may have unconsciously influenced EWME’s choice of a pseudonym.
You take that back Aydan! Journey is really cool!
I never really understood the whole “I am a jock/nerd/preppie” thing the USA seems to have. Do people really think that brains and physical ability are mutually exclusive? Just because you play D&D doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go out and kick a football around.
And no… I never had any cheerleaders. I feel like I missed out.
It’s not a matter of ability so much as self-identifying with a particular subculture. Self-identifying as a nerd doesn’t mean you aren’t athletic, it just means that you tend to socialize with other self-identifying nerds, as opposed to the self-identifying jocks.
So, wait, why would Dave want to date a cheerleader who just had her former boyfriend (presumably the quarterback) put in jail after falsely accusing him of rape?
I think EWME saw Revenge of the Nerds and decided that it was a cautionary tale about the dangers of refusing to defer to one’s social betters.
The jock/nerd/cheerleader stereotypes never really fit my school, either. There were “popular” kids, but the rest of us weren’t dying to be them or be friends with them–we didn’t even dislike them particularly. We just had our own friends that we liked better.
No one cared about cheer (except the kids in cheer). And the real star kids weren’t athletes: they were the concert choir. Nor was there a stigma attached to pretty much any activity: sports, drama, band, and choir were all big things.
(This is cboye, BTW, now restored to my preferred handle and gravatar. I realize this move is immensely more convenient for me than for Blogger users, though.)
We had the house system I suppose…
What? I went to a Harry Potteresque school! (I was from the house with the green house colours making us slytherin… Red/Yellow/Blue/Green are the traditional house colours in most schools that have them. But in the modern era competition is “not encouraged” so the system is dying out.)
I think the only stigma we had was the kid who was scared of needles and turned out to be scared of spiders and earthworms. We even tolerated the kid who fainted during a dissection because he fainted in a manly way (No bending of the knees. It’s a Terry Pratchett joke).
IMHO any damn fool can throw a rugby ball (and by extension do any sport) but real talent is rarely rewarded in high school society. No one was interested in my violin skills in school. Uni changed that!
Glad to see you’re spending your time fighting your fellow feminists, Futrelle.
I have the same shoes as the dancing bandana guido…
And a very similar build…
I find the whole jocks/nerds dichotomy rather strange to begin with. A lot of times, people aren’t 100% that particular identity, nor do they always keep the same identity. The only place where it really fits is high school; identities there tend to be more black and white due to the developing brains of teenagers.
I’ve known “nerds” that like to play football and “jocks” that love science fiction. When a person becomes an adult, usually they expand their experiences. I just find it odd that someone would keep thinking that everything is like high school, and think that everyone else thinks the same way.
Hey, we were going over this exact topic in Sociology of Gender last week!
Part of the common definition of masculinity is “macho”: toughness, violence, risktaking, willingness to get in fights. EWME is doing a classic patriarchal move by insulting David’s gender performance instead of his arguments. This is despite the fact that “whether David is manly” is completely unrelated to “whether David is a good person” or even “whether David is right.”
I thought the jocks vs. nerds thing was just on TV or in movies. My high school never had that division. Our football team captain was also in the drama club and liked to do musicals. The three captains of the cheer-leading squad were all in National Honors Society.
Are there really schools where the TV stereotypes come to life? Because that would explain a LOT about MRAs…if I grew up in a TV-high school I’d probably be a twisted, bitter husk of a human being too.
Evil’s comment made no sense. Your just a runt what? Have I been spending too much time around English majors, that I can no longer communicate with the internet masses?
The strangest part of this whole assertion (and there are many strange parts, such as the implication that if you’re a scrawny nerd, then the misogynist things you quote from MRA sites… aren’t real quotes any more? ) is the idea that the mythical false rape accusation industry selectively targets stronger and more attractive men.
If I were going to false-rape-accuse a guy (and I’m really, REALLY not inclined to, because that’s horrible and makes no sense and would gain me nothing and stands an excellent chance of ruining my life), I’d go for a weak, meek one with few friends. That seems like a much easier target. Everyone’s already biased against wimpy nerds and they don’t fight back much. False-rape-accusing a popular, strong, attractive guy seems much more difficult.
So really, you’re just shooting yourself in the foot, Futrelle, when you advocate for… um, for rape to be treated like a violent crime that deserves investigation upon accusation and carries a punishment upon conviction.
Yeah, the thing about the jocks I knew: I might have thought they were attractive, but I sure didn’t want a relationship with them. My ‘type’ is creative, intellectual, and nerdy, because that’s how I like to see myself. Oh, and wearing a fedora. Fedoras are hot.
Has anyone’s school anywhere matched the stereotype?
Mine not only had a really bad football team, they tended to have scars from being shot.
You think if women were running a grand conspiracy to use false rape accusations to remove men from the dating pool, they would not target the attractive ones…
Moving on to high schools, my high school did bullying, though I was not a target. It was a very, very small school (think less than 30 graduates a year-and it was the public school) and I hit puberty early and had anger problems as an adolescent. So, I had a reputation pretty set in by the time I was in my late teens and people did not touch me.
Sports was considered a marker of social status for boys, and academics was seen as girly. We did not have football (American football, for the rest of you, we had soccer), because the equipment is too expensive. Cheerleaders were not popular as they tended to be the leftovers from the girls who could not make the field hockey or basketball team and were not bright or good at art. Generally, pretty or weak boys who were genuinely nice tended to be sheltered by the more academic groups of girls (the girls who took art, the yearbook club, the honor society-yes, that last was virutally all girls). One particular basketball player picked on the boy who was the favorite of all of the girls and ended up so unpopular with the girls that he had to go out of county to find a date for prom. The boys who got hit hardest by bullying were generally those who were not good at sports and were not sweet to girls. Oh, and the stoners/weed dealers tended to defend their own buddies too. The stoners and sweet boys who were bad at sports tended to date the academic girls, and the sports boys mostly dated the girls who did sports (one of the stoners infamously joined art class to get more girls and ended up going to art school on full scholarship despite being a C student). For girls, bullying tended to be more verbal abuse and also tended to rest on one’s being unpopular amoung the girls.
Hey, maybe the guidette is a closet feminist! With incredibly dancing skillz! O_o
Anyways, hilarious post.
Congrats (?) on your move, David. It’ll take some getting used to… might you be changing the color of the page and tinkering and stuff? The white is kinda harsh… there’s my input. Love your blog, read it almost daily. I Facebook the shit out of the really heinous posts. Keep being you, Charles Atlas! ;) xoxo
I went to one of those schools that pretty much matched the stereotype. Then again, it was in a monied Chicago suburb, and we were all still kind of basking in a John Hughesian afterglow. Did art mirror life or did life mirror art? Dunno.
Anyway, after having a long chat with my boyfriend last night about the various ways that most commenters on MRA/MGTOW sites try to dehumanize and other women, and basically prove that women are all like each other and in no way like or even understandable to men (the STD thing, the obsession with thugboys and women’s imaginary obsession with such, and the “hamster” trope), I may have to eat my words. Somewhat, anyway. It appears that when they’re not trying to make women seem like some completely alien species, MRA/MGTOW enthusiasts are busily trying to fit everyone, man and woman, into the box that holds them and their sexual desires. Everyone must be like me and want more or less the same things I do! Because … my imagination is just that bad!
I mean, I guess I understand why a guy who is unsuccessful sexually would want to bolster his self-esteem by telling himself that it’s nothing he does, it’s just that these crazy, hot babes who he is designed to be attracted to (Darwinism explains it! No man has ever been attracted to any woman over age 26 or over 120 pounds!) are crazy and only want thugboys. I mean, none of that’s true, but I can definitely understand the appeal of justifying your failures in that way, at least for a time.
(I guess I don’t understand it that well, though, because I still don’t understand the default-hatred-of-women bit, but whatever.)
Hey, at least you’re not a group of women anymore! Phew! Damn women.
Oh no… did my comment get eaten…? Doy. Oh well…
I noticed that Futrelle neatly skirts the question of how his actual personal status. I’ll give you the answer.
Futrelle is an omega. The difference between betas and omegas is that betas are usually accepted by alphas. They won’t get as much action, but they are permitted to run in the alphas’ circle and thus can utilize this foothold to more often score with beta women and perhaps even an occasional alpha woman. So, in the end, it’s not TOO bad to be a beta- you get action, and though you’re not dominant, you can always succeed in other areas of life (financially, etc.)
However, omegas- again, such as Futrelle- lack even this outlet for their sexual frustrations. They are completely shut out sexually, unless they want to stoop to female omegas (fat chicks). This is the kind of person you feminists flock to as a leader. Is there a status below omega? There should be.
Ah, that just goes to show how fiendishly cunning David is! He’s used his feminist mind-control mojo to convince Ew-Me that he’s not a group of women to disguise the fact that he really is a group of women! We’re beyond the looking glass, people!
I don’t understand the hamster thing. These MRA people mention it a lot, but where does it come from and what does it mean?
The new format is already better. We’re on comment 16 and we’re still talking about the hilarious quote, and not disproving the point “feminists invented divorce in order to slaughter male fetuses.”
Hey everyone, just approved a big batch of comments here. I have the blog set up to send comments from new commenters to moderation, so if it’s your first post here that’s what happened. I think it determines newness from IP addresses, so if you’re posting from somewhere else from where you usually post you get moderated. At least I think that’s why some of you who have already posted here are getting stuck in moderation.
What “Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant” said is satire, right? It has to be.
Graham: I don’t understand the hamster thing.
You would no doubt get a different answer from an MRA, but here’s how I understand it. MRAs have noticed that women do something that is very similar to what they know as “thinking” and “reason.” However, they know that women are subhuman and thus are not equipped for actual thought. So they have likened this activity instead to a hamster running on its wheel, which seems a more suitable description for the behaviors of such a simple creature.
MRAL: You do realize that no one outside of the MRA/MGTOW lobby actually thinks about people in those terms, right? Categorizing people by their perceived worth using Greek letters and psuedoscience is pretty much reserved for you bargain shoppers of easy-to-swallow ideas, and ignored by everyone else.
Personally, I’m an epsilon female. Because I’m really really short.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon#Math_and_science
Also, I love how “fat chicks” are the lowest of the low, that even the least desirable man wouldn’t consider dating. This is, of course, a bunch of hateful bullsh*t, which in no way corresponds to real life.
But given that the MRA/MGTO crowd probably think anyone over a size 8 is disgustingly fat, their contention that there are just not enough dateable women to go around makes a twisted kind of sense…
Ooh! And I forgot to mention that I am undoubtedly an “omega” by the “woman who is not skinny” standard. And…I’m in a relationship. Huh.
I assure you I am entirely serious. I know it’s hard for you wishy-washy everyone’s a special snowflake feminists, but you can essentially boil down men into the alpha, beta, and omega categories. Alphas have their pick of women, and usually choose the most attractive and charismatic- the “alpha female”. Beta men can occasionally utilize their wiles and proximity to the alphas to perhaps “fool” (for lack of a better word) an alpha woman into thinking he’s an alpha man and thus obtain some action. However, it is rare for a relationship to develop along these lines because eventually he will be outed as a beta. Thus, beta men are found in serious relationships with beta women- who may still be attractive, just not gorgeous. Thus, as I said before, being a beta is not an intolerable position.
And of course, the omega men and fat chicks are left out in the cold. They could hook up, but omega men usually find abstinence more appealing than degrading themselves with a fat chick.
I also disagree with the use of those crazy terms to categorize people. At least, as much as a cis-gendered heteronormative recipient of class privilege from the kyriarchy can do so. And don’t go ableist on me either! :P
Also, isn’t the omega man too busy fighting off crazed mutants to worry about dating anyway?
@Ion: As someone with a mental health diagnosis I don’t find your use of the word “crazy” ableist. MRAs fit the definition. I don’t. I’d rather have them associated with the word anyway. So soldier on, I suppose :)
Are the MRAs assigning themselves military ranks now? Because the General beat them to the punch a long time ago.
MRAL: Okay, I’ll give you the serious response that your post doesn’t deserve.
You’re just making unsupported assertions here. Aside from suggesting that we’re all stupid or emotional or whatever to “get it,” you don’t provide any evidence, not even anecdotal evidence, that this is true at all.
Other people on this thread have shared personal experiences, which point to what common sense would also indicate: People mostly get together with other people who have similar interests and attitudes. There is no one type of guy (or girl) that every girl (or guy) in the universe wants, any more than everyone has the same favorite food or movie.
And, dude, in real life people are not divided into discrete levels. You’re thinking of Brave New World again.
@MRA thingy:
Urk. I was gonna write a serious response, but four paragraphs later I realized that everything about you is so wrong one could write a novel on the order of the dictionary that would be as informative and as tedious. Alpha, Beta, Omega yadda yadda are not real distinctions; they do not exist. They are terms invented wholly to put the blame of not being happy in relationships from “I don’t know how to communicate/empathize/sympathize/enjoy the company of a woman” to “I am born a certain way, and therefore its not my fault I don’t get any.”
There are no Alpha males out to get you poor Beta and Omegas, and your classification of the whole human species solely in terms of attractiveness (and YOUR version thereof) only shows how obsesssed you are with one very VERY tiny aspect of your life.
Go outside and get some fresh air. Go hiking, build little models of ships, write some goddamn poetry for fucks sake! Just don’t come whining about how you personally can’t seem to click with the people around you, and therefore there is some evil conspiracy of hot people aiming to keep you enslaved.
Your shallow and narrow view of women (and men) doesn’t give you some useful insight into the human condition; it just makes you blind to what is really the problem with your relationships. YOU!
Man, I’m getting really cranky these days… I’m gonna go look at some cute pictures of kittens.
Katz, weak and/or deluded people (such as feminists) don’t like to THINK of themselves as in terms of the Greek hierarchy, but it’s all there. “Hooking up with people of similar interests” is just code (knowingly or unknowingly) for settling at your level. Band geeks hooking up with band geeks? It’s likely that you’ve probably got two betas. Hot athletes hooking up with cheerleaders? Really, it’s just alphas. Stoners? Likely a case of an omega and a fat chick. You understand me now?
Yes yes MRAL, because the only thing that matters is having high status and apparently no fat.
Okay, let me paint a picture of Futrelle, it’s very easy, he’s a stock omega. Not knowing the guy at all, here’s a projected profile:
Age: 23
Height: 5’6
Weight: 135 or so- skinny but not too skinny
Hair color: Brown, but with black “streaks” in his hair to give him “individuality”.
Futrelle grew up in a solidly middle class town, probably borderline upper-middle class. Likewise, his family was well-off but not rich. Suburbs, I would guess… maybe suburbs of Boston? He probably wasn’t bullied per say, but simply ignored. Tried to make friends, especially with the opposite sex, and they were put off by his glasses, high voice, acne, and general awkwardness. Before college, his acne cleared up and he got contacts. He hoped to reinvent himself as an alpha or at least a beta, but unfortunately, his nerdiness and lack of social skills remained, shunting him immediately down the status ladder into omega territory. Futrelle was angry, very angry, and directed his rage at the alphas that had socially isolated him. Usually his abnormally developed writing skills, he took the fight to the internet, and we see Man Boobz a result of his sexually frustrated toils.
I bet I was pretty close.
Also, your little diagram falls apart when one looks at me-according to you I am an omega because I am not skinny.
But my intelligence makes me a beta. Then my life’s work makes me an alpha. So which am I? Or am I an alphabetaomega? Or are you full of crap?
I suspect it is the latter.
Correction, after your last post, I know it is and was the latter.
Honestly? Not to be rude, but since you’re fat, you’re an omega. The levels are flexible, but not that flexible.
@MRAL:
Lets move past your high-school notions of hierarchy and look at the real world, shall we? Who is more of an alpha, a renowned boxer or a respected college professor? Who is more of a beta, a rock musician or a tech guy working behind the scenes at a fortune 500? Are the guys working in a factory omegas because they have shitty jobs, or betas because they have jobs at all?
As I recall, Oprah had some big stink about weight, where she gained a lot then lost it. Did she undergo some grotesque metamorphasis from alpha to omega, then back again? Is your outlook on life so simplistic that you think that not only does attractiveness determine ones place in society, but it somehow (presumeably) sums up their entire potential and worth?
Grow up.
(I really need to stop now.. My poor heart…)
But unlike your level of intelligence MRAL-I can lose the weight.
You shall always be stuck in omega level intelligence.
Age: 23
Height: 5’6
Weight: 135 or so- skinny but not too skinny
Hair color: Brown, but with black “streaks” in his hair to give him “individuality”.(Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant)
Are you serious? This could have described several of the MMA fighters on the UFC card last night. Oh, and by your definition they would probably be Alpha.
The Greek hierarchy is only relevant in terms of social and sexual success (and, of course, they are often interrelated). There are of course ways to be respectable and successful outside of the Greek hierarchy. As I stated earlier, a beta can take solace in the fact that he can always be financially successful, artistically exceptional, or some other variation thereof. It doesn’t stop him from being a social and sexual beta, but in other aspects of his life, he can be dominant. As for the boxer/professor comparison, well, it depends on how they conduct themselves socially and sexually. A boxer is probably younger, taller (this is huge with men, I forgot to mention… height is a big deal) and better looking, and thus more likely to be an alpha. But if it’s a hot, charismatic prof, the prof may be a bigger alpha.
It is okay Kirby-he never even noticed that I said I was not skinny (which apparently is the only requirement for a woman to be an alpha) not that I was fat.
And he also has not denoted what constitutes a fat person-is it a size two, eight, ten, twenty? Is it someone who has a high BMI or just a lot of extra pounds for what is “ideal” for a person’s height?
I do find it interesting how it all does boil down to Clique’s. Nerds and Jocks or whatever else people like to use to make them feel connected.
No, a woman must be HOT to be an alpha (thin and facially attractive).
A skinny woman without exceptional looks is probably a beta (of course, there are internal beta levels, generally determined by the level of attractiveness and, in small part, level of social charisma of the woman).
Being fat immediately dumps you into omega category, no matter what. This sounds, harsh, but I didn’t make the rules, I just report on the facts.
That makes you the Mike Damone of the world of high school cliques Tit.
Anyway I just dropped by to expose Futrelle for the snivelling little omega that he is. Now you can’t pretend you don’t know.
Ah Elizabeth you never shy away from the insult do you?.
@PosterwhoimprettysureisstillElizabeth
Actually, I didn’t catch that till you pointed it out. Clever. :P I think its more to do with the fact that when somebody says “I am NOT skinny”, it usually is a euphamism.
It’s starting to look, as MRAL’s position becomes more clear, that the Alpha/Beta/Omega labels are simply a means of saying who’s hot and who’s not. Any other derivatives (that Alphas are out to get Betas) are simply baseless assertions and conspiratorial hand-waving.
Sorry for the entirely unrelated, but we have emoticons?!?!!? :) :D :P Awesome!
Again MRAL-as Kirby and I pointed out-it is illogical to base the level a woman is at on only her weight.
Oprah, one of the most powerful women in the media, once went from being 238 to being 160. Then she went back to 200. I have no idea what she is now. She is one of the alpha types except when she is heavy? Does your little theory add in the fact that weight is something that can be lost and gained? Is a recently pregnant woman (who still has the weight from her baby) an omega because she has not lost the weight?
Do you see how this is a stupid thing to claim yet? Oh wait, forgot I was dealing with omega level intelligence. Never mind.
For women it kind of is who’s hot and who’s not. For men, it’s more complex- an intersectionality of strength and height and attractiveness and social charisma, who can be the most well-liked and get the most pieces of ass. It’s possible to succeed outside the system but the Greek system is the most common avenue to success.
I think alphas actually like betas, because they affirm their superiority. This is why the higher-level betas often run with alphas and utilize this advantage in order to get alpha ass. On the other hand, alphas and betas have an almost pathological hostility toward omegas. They like to cockblock and torment them constantly- see the root of Futrelle’s anger.
Men’s rights acknowledge this system (unlike dreamland fymynysts) and understand the pain it causes many men. This is why MRAs embrace Game, that which can level the playing field somewhat, but surprise surprise, the femibitches don’t like Game, because then they have to give up some of their power. Feminism is at its core pure undistilled selfishness.
@Posterwhosooni’lljustbecallingElizabeth:
Of course, even if MRAL’s little Greek hierarchy (as if that lends it any credibility) is soley for the purpose of sexual preference, he obviously haven’t heard of the BBW kink. (If I have it wrong, I’m sorry. I’m not googling it. Just a personal preference.) Even “fat chicks” get some lovin.
MRAL:
I said it last time. You have not provided a speck of evidence of any kind that anything you say is true; you just assert loudly that it is true and we just don’t want to believe it.
In the interests of illustrating why this is stupid, I’ll present an alternate theory that we’ll call the psychic theory of attraction.
Some people are psychic. They are attracted to other psychic people because of the power of their awesome psychicness. They also look down on people who aren’t psychic. They’re successful through judicious use of their psychic powers. You think of them as attractive because they’re using their psychic powers to make you think that.
You just don’t know there are psychics because you’re a non-psychic loser. They never talk about it or write anything about it down because they can communicate psychically and there’s no point in sharing the fact of their awesome psychicness with a loser like you.
There are thousands of websites that have BBW porn videos showing that plenty of people are not limited to those three categories Kirby and that plenty of overweight women are able to get somethin’ somethin’.
A model is only as useful as the predictions it can make. Some models may be able to make startlingly accurate predictions in specific cases, but fail generally. While those models may be useful (in the specific cases) they cannot be accurate views of reality.
My guess is that many people can’t grasp that last point, which is why you have people like MRAL proposing a model that, while it may be very accurate in his (my presumption) experience (otherwise he wouldn’t believe it), obviously fails in the general case. Thus it CANNOT, no matter how much positive evidence is presented, be an accurate model of reality.
The whole idea that a “beta” individual can be “dominant” in some other area of life besides the social/sexual as a consolation prize made me think about something.
The reason self-described “betas” and “omegas” are unhappy is that they view some form of “dominance” as the goal. And that’s just silly.
When I enter social or sexual relationships, I don’t do it to win some kind of power game; I do it to be happy. I am an “omega” by the standard MRA classification, since I’m chubby. Because of my tastes and the circles I run in, my life experience is more like that of a “beta”; I can make friends and get dates, but I have to work at it.
But you know what? I have a great circle of friends, and a great relationship. Which means, as far as I’m concerned, I have achieved the ultimate social/sexual success: getting myself to a place where I’m happy.
The fact that someone hotter, thinner, and more charismatic than I am could have achieved all this bit less effort, or could have ended up with a girlfriend who is “higher status”, is completely irrelevant to my life.
I think a lot of beta/gamma/delta/epsilon dudes could benefit from a similar outlook.
Perhaps more relevant than the BBW phenomenon:
http://love.twowholecakes.org/
Overweight and obese women so sometimes have a tough time on the dating scene, but most still get laid and most end up getting married. Anyone who claims that no self-respecting guy would date a fat chick is denying reality.
@Lovlace:
Thanks (?) for the link. The problem we’re dealing with is that these people are oblivious about reality. They simply take their own desires and project them upon everybody else. This is probably why MRAL is so dissatisfied with his relationships (I’m being generous here). He has no notion of what his partner may desire, and therefore cannot be a desirable person.
I’m sure MRAL will be horrified to see “fat chicks” dating, and will just dismiss it as “omegas” getting what they can. What an insidious and perverse idea that distorts reality and therefore cannot be disproved.
MRAL appears confused about his stupid dogma. Stoners are badboy thugs, aren’t they?
Also, in my experience, my personality has gotten me at least as much laid as my 20.1 BMI. I’m fairly funny, socially awkward, intelligent, nice, geeky… and that’s what gets me laid, not my looks. If I’m in a situation where personality is irrelevant, I get no sex at all.
And I don’t know about you guys, but I could care less about strength, height or social charisma. Give me a skinny androgyne with some eyeliner… mmmmm.