>The Ladies Auxiliary of the Ladyhaters Club
>
 |
| Women in groups: Always trouble. |
One of the strangest places in the burly world of Men’s Rightsers and MGTOWers is The Spearhead’s Shieldmaidens forum. And no, I am not making that name up. It’s a forum, essentially, for women interested in being a sort of Women’s Auxiliary to a bunch of guys who are all about hating women.
Given that such a role – trying to help dudes who don’t much like you or your whole gender — is a bit of a tricky one, the forum moderator Hestia has written a long introductory post explaining just what new gals should and shouldn’t do to support their menfolk. It’s kind of a masterpiece of doublespeak. Let’s look at some of its highlights.
Hestia starts out by warning the ladies that these rough men sometimes talk in a rough manner:
As this is a male environment, us girls can expect styles of communication that we might not use ourselves or readily relate to. For the purpose of this post, I will call all of this “locker room talk”. … Topics and expressions women may find crude are likely to occur and generalizations about women (or white, western, whatever) used to adequately get a point across. These differences, while bothersome to some women, are not wrong in and of themselves and are not reason to shame men into expressing themselves differently. As women in the locker room, we are the ones who need to look the other [way] and make accommodations; not the men for whom this website is for.
In other words: the guys here may call you sluts and whores and worse, but really, that’s your fault for being here in the first place, so don’t complain.
Welcome aboard!
Hestia continues:
We must also respect this place as one of the few politically incorrect sanctuaries that men have in today’s misandrist world. … We should not be bullying men into saying, “yes, indeed not all women are like that!” to appease our own egos. … This is sacred male friendly ground and should be treated as such. … We are but guests on this website and must know our place and respect certain boundaries for the sake of the men here and for the work towards gender peace.
Hard to be more abject than this. So how have the menfolk responded?
It appears that not too many men actually read the Shieldmaidens forum, but among those who do, the reaction has been a little less than enthusiastic. Our friend GlobalMan, one of the more excitable Spearhead regulars, basically tells her (and all women) to fuck off entirely:
I have voiced my opinion many times women should be banned all together from here. They are contributing nothing and they are taking up a lot of time and energy of the stupid young men who do not realise that women are just attention whores who won’t actually do anything at the end of the day. ….You women pretty much fuck up everything you stick your nose into. And you never, ever tire of fucking things up for men under the delusion you have ‘something to contribute’. You don’t. Get over it. You pop out babies. That is your one and only ‘claim to fame’ and it used to be enough for a man to love a woman for her whole life and to provide for her and the kids. Now it is not. So you women need to ‘act like men’ and suck it up.Indeed. If women had any class at all you would leave of your own accord and let the men sort out what you refused to. The only posts from women here should be ‘Men, please tell us what to do’.
A fellow calling himself Diogenes offers his two cents:
That Hestia has to write this thread proves that indeed women who come to this board do exactly that which she complains against. They have such a cozy and male-coddled life that they are shocked when some men rightly express their scorn and foul language towards their attitudes and manipulative behaviour. Women BREED misogyny because all they do is constantly manipulate and get the attention and protection of men by trying to look sexy all the time. Every time a man turns his head towards a pretty lady, she knows she is being looked after and will be rescued by a man if ever her poor little ass does something stupid. They are CHILDREN at heart. One female college student mentioned to me how according to her “every girl” has gone on dates just to get free dinners. How much more proof do we need that women are NO GOOD WHORES?
I guess that’s some of the “locker room talk” Hestia was warning the ladies about.
Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the inside of a locker room, but I don’t remember much of the talk in the locker rooms I’ve been in revolving around the no-good whorishness of all women. I think that might be because most men are not in fact hateful assholes who think all women are NO GOOD WHORES.That’s just a theory though.
–
If you enjoyed this post, would you kindly* use the “Share This” or one of the other buttons below to share it on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, or wherever else you want. I appreciate it.
*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.
Posted on April 18, 2011, in antifeminism, antifeminst women, MRA, oppressed men. Bookmark the permalink. 266 Comments.
>Man, I am on the fence about the whole feminists vs MRAs thing, but even I find that shit repugnant and scary. Both the women and the men.
>@HollyDon't forget, In Mala Fide is filled with "giant racists too" thus producing a two headed attack on attractiveness to women (Sexist and Racist) Sure there maybe women who are racist too but you are better off chatting up women on the Stormfront. Ironically they are quite likely to like the whole "I am a dumb thug, hear me smack bitches and whine loudly about the darkies" attitude that a lot of MRAs have. They have the same "if women don't like me there must be something wrong with them" attitude.
>NWO has just demonstrated that he knows as little about Marxism as he does about feminism, the law, history, anthropology, or any other part of reality.PS NWO, we have already debunked most of the claims you have just made on other threads. Sheer volume of ridiculous crap does not make it worthy or profound.
>I am not a feminist either. I just think that the MRAs are giving the rest of the men in the world a bad name and that women should be treated as equals to men. Don't worry Avicenna, most feminists are quite aware that reactionary misogynists aren't representative of all men…I do have to say, though, this is the second time in three days that someone has said "I'm not a feminist… I just want women to have equal rights." Leading me to ask–which is it? If you want women to have equal rights… well, that's feminism, in a nutshell. Maybe you don't agree with specific policy positions associated with feminism, like, say, mandatory paid parental leave, but that doesn't make you a not-feminist. It's like saying, "I'm not a supporter of the Civil Rights Movement, I just think black people should be able to eat at any restaurant they like, and vote freely, and not be denied housing or jobs because of their race…" What's stopping you from identifying as a supporter?
>Wasn't Ion flouncing on another topic? Why is he still here?
>I don't want to sound like a pop psychologist, but I wonder if Hestia and the other "Shield maidens" have codependent personalities. They are blaming themselves for the misogyny on the Spearhead website. I would not be surprised if they have been in abusive relationships and so they think that being put down and insulted is normal, or that they deserve it just for being women. I sensed that the posters Globalman and Diogenes are narcissistic with a strong sense of entitlement, as in entitled to beautiful, meek women to dominate. Narcissists tend to be attracted to codependents with low self esteem. The Spearhead moderators quickly ban moderates who could acts as a voice of reason, and so these unhealthy people are around only other unhealthy people. They get caught up in their little world/cult together and don't realize how far they have strayed from normal.
>Ion-you did not come on here with any sort of basic respect you claim you have for any person. You came on here spoiling for a fight and got one. And now you are claiming "well since you reacted the way I demanded, not only are you stupider than I, you also are terrible man haters."No, they are perfectly normal people who stood up for themselves. Forweg-that is not feminism they are reacting to. In fact, what Globalman said is essentially the same thing that Aristotle said about women over two thousand years ago. The difference being that Aristotle said it in more refined language and was more accepting of the role women had to play in society. Nor has anything feminists have put out in the past 150 years the equal to anything those two said. A little from the two women you constantly cite as proof all feminists are evil misandrists perhaps-but they were thoroughly refuted by mainstream and even most of the fringe feminists. You not only do not refute them, you excuse their misogyny as if they have just cause to feel that way.
>I don't read NWO posts, I just read Holly. All the content and 100% more humor.Also, yes, you always have a right to challenge a restraining order with a hearing.
>Or they genuinely believe that modern women have lost something intricately feminine that defines them.
>Ion-you did not come on here with any sort of basic respect you claim you have for any person. You came on here spoiling for a fight and got one. And now you are claiming "well since you reacted the way I demanded, not only are you stupider than I, you also are terrible man haters." No, they are perfectly normal people who stood up for themselves. May I suggest you are really stretching the definition of "perfectly normal". My basic respect went out the window when I saw how people were talking here. Tell me, was SallyStrange "standing up for herself" when she called T4T an 'idiot loser' for disagreeing with her – politely, I might add? Was ginmar "standing up for herself" when she was ranting and cursing like a lunatic? I suppose making the umpteenth statement about "flouncing" (there's that original insult again) or "inflatable dolls", those fine folks were just "standing up for themselves?" Give me a break. Oh, and lest you keep assuming I see myself as some kind of victim, trust me, I'm not. I simply gave as good as I got. It's actually been pretty fun. :)
>On the nuclear submarine thing – if a woman feels it's her calling to serve on a nuclear submarine, and wants to take birth control to eliminate her periods, she should be able to. Maybe she's post-menopausal. Maybe she's had a hysterectomy. Maybe she's willing to take the risks. Maybe she'll use the Diva cup, which is reusable. Birth control is getting better and better, it's possible.
>Acivenna-why do you think it is sexist to admire someone's good looks? Generally if a person gussies up they are seeking admiring looks and that goes for men to. Being polite is also not sexist (in other words, holding the door open for someone or helping a little old lady with her groceries-notwithstanding Terry Pratchett's belief that little old ladies can carry double or treble their own weight-is just being mannerly.)
>@NWOslave:About your signature:Men are Imperfect Women. Men are Broken.Men are the burgiousse oppressor class.Women are the peasant victim class.Man =Bad.Woman = Good."Burgiousse" is not a word. I suspect what you mean is "bourgeois." If you want to be taken seriously, anywhere (not just by feminists), it's a good idea to use proper spelling.
>The idea is that feminists often speak in incredibly confusing ways using "waffle" (scientific term for using big words when simple ones suffice). It's an idea that we are trying to make the most difficult of subjects as easy as possible to read while a lot of feminist theory is very complicated. I find this difficult to follow. You don’t like using big words when small ones will suffice, therefore, not a feminist? This only follows if you assume that a.) it’s true that those big words really are 100% replaceable with smaller ones and b.) all feminists are in agreement that only the big words will do. I don’t think either of those is the case. It's simple "genders are equal except on nuclear submarines" (It's unfair to request women to take the pill for long periods of time to completely eliminate their periods. And indeed there is a side effect of hormonal drugs in that they can cause depression particularly if using the higher dose COCPs as I have some experience with a friend whose condition improved significantly after being moved onto low dose COCPs with the placebo period.)Again, this doesn’t really follow, without certain assumptions. Assumption a: you have to cease menstruating in order to serve on a submarine. Assumption b: there is, and never will be, any medical advances that will allow women to do so without debilitating side effects. Assumption c: all feminists agree that… what? Women should be able to serve on a submarine, AND menstruate all over everybody while they’re on board? I agree that I am a "bit sexist". This is a sexist society. We are all “a little bit sexist,” just as we are all a little bit racist. Only fools and bigots proclaim "I'm not sexist/racist AT ALL!"
>Ion-Sally was calling him what he is. He has, on more than one occasion, acted exactly like that. He is no different then NWOslave with the sole exception he does not use the kind of language that NWOslave uses. Ginmar has her/his reasons for being the way s/he is. I do not always agree with the reaction (like with Kave) but I also think that most of the time, s/he is correct in the tone used.Also, the word flounce is a pretty accurate description of the way you were acting. Kind of like when Cartman flounced off saying "screw you guys, I am going home."
>…Continued from previous post…When I see a pretty woman I get distracted.So don’t we all (or substitute pretty whomever, according to preference). Feminism doesn’t ask you to stop experiencing distraction thanks to physical attraction. It only asks you to keep your penis’ opinion to yourself unless you’re actively trying to strike up a romantic relationship with a particular woman. I carry shopping, hold open doors and so on. People say it's patronising, I feel awkward not doing it. You may want someone to have equal rights but the idea is that traditionally men are expected to behave a certain way and a lot of women expect that.That’s just politeness. I open doors for anyone and carry shopping if it’s necessary, regardless of gender. Whether it’s “patronizing” or not is something only you can know. Do you do it because you regard women as inherently weak? No? Then it’s not patronizing regardless of what someone else may think. As far as what behavior is expected by SOME (clearly not all) women–So the fuck what? Some men expect me to simper and giggle and flirt whenever I speak to them, regardless of the situation, and judge me negatively when I don’t. Are you saying that you aren’t a feminist because some women aren’t feminists, and will judge you negatively for not opening doors for them? I mean, that doesn’t make any sense in the first place, but when you add in the fact that feminism has fuck-all to say about the desirability of opening doors or carrying things for people (only about making assumptions of strength or weakness based on gender), the illogic of this train of thinking becomes undeniable.Would it be a bad thing to lose any of this?It would be a good thing if you could lose your unexamined and inaccurate assumptions, yes.Would life be so much worse if marriages turned into indian ones where both sides sit down and plan out a wedding as if they were planning the invasion of Poland rather than the guy attempting to pull of some harebrained scheme to surprise the woman? Trust me the second way is far better than the first.Bit of a non sequitur here. Arranged marriages vs. love marriages? Certainly a question feminists grapple with, but ultimately the only truly feminist goal is to make sure that every woman AND man who enters into such agreements does so informed and of his or her own free will. …Not all the old ways are bad.Agreed, so let’s be more judicious and deliberate about choosing which old ways we get rid of, and which ones we preserve.
>About T4T–he may not swear much, but his rank dishonesty is far more uncivil than 1,000 "fuck"s could ever be.
>…Continued from previous post… If this is a double post, please ignore–I think it got eaten the first time, for no discernable reason. Avicenna was speaking:When I see a pretty woman I get distracted.So don’t we all (or substitute pretty whomever, according to preference). Feminism doesn’t ask you to stop experiencing distraction thanks to physical attraction. It only asks you to keep your penis’ opinion to yourself unless you’re actively trying to strike up a romantic relationship with a particular woman. I carry shopping, hold open doors and so on. People say it's patronising, I feel awkward not doing it. You may want someone to have equal rights but the idea is that traditionally men are expected to behave a certain way and a lot of women expect that.That’s just politeness. I open doors for anyone and carry shopping if it’s necessary, regardless of gender. Whether it’s “patronizing” or not is something only you can know. Do you do it because you regard women as inherently weak? No? Then it’s not patronizing regardless of what someone else may think. Some women expect that behavior? So the fuck what? Some men expect me to simper and giggle and flirt whenever I speak to them, regardless of the situation, and judge me negatively when I don’t. Are you saying that you aren’t a feminist because some women aren’t feminists, and will judge you negatively for not opening doors for them? I mean, that doesn’t make any sense in the first place, but when you add in the fact that feminism has fuck-all to say about the desirability of opening doors or carrying things to people, the illogic of this train of thinking becomes truly apparent. Would it be a bad thing to lose any of this?It would be a good thing if you could lose your unexamined and inaccurate assumptions, yes.Would life be so much worse if marriages turned into indian ones where both sides sit down and plan out a wedding as if they were planning the invasion of Poland rather than the guy attempting to pull of some harebrained scheme to surprise the woman? Trust me the second way is far better than the first. Bit of a non sequitur here. Arranged marriages vs. love marriages? Certainly a question feminists grapple with, but ultimately the only truly feminist goal is to make sure that every woman and man who enters into such agreements does so informed and of his or her own free will. …Not all the old ways are bad.Agreed, so let’s be more judicious and deliberate about choosing which old ways we get rid of, and which ones we preserve.
>Incidentally, for some reason my username is showing up as Sally Lichtenstein instead of Sally Strange. I don't know why. Neither is my real name, so I don't really care. Just letting people know, in case they're confused.
>You know, I always wondered, what is it about periods that makes so much of a difference as far as sewage disposal goes? I mean, guys still have to pee and poop, and if somebody gets sick, the mess has to get cleaned up. What makes it so easy to dispose of that waste, but so difficult to dispose of period byproducts? Is it a matter of having to clean the bathrooms a little more often, a matter of guys not wanting to be tainted by girly stuff, or what?It confuses me, and if somebody else has more insight, I'd be happy to hear it.
>Ion, on the other hand, is one of those people who wouldn't have anything to do with the Civil Rights Movement, because, "That Malcolm X is so ANGRY! And that MLK fellow is a communist." IOW, argumentum ad hominem, without even using accurate ad hominems.
>"RAnting and cursing like a lunatic"? Hey, asshole, you're the one who comes up with these elaborate posts about—-what was it? Bars, bullshit, and booze? You get what you give. You gave complete and utter hostility and then you whine because women aren't sucking your cock. You flounced. You're still here. No backbone, I guess.
>Elizabeth, you tell me exactly what you thnk of this little creation of Ion's and then tell me what's wrong with my response to him. Ion: Weird, every time I had enough of a feminist's nonsense and announced I was leaving, they'd triumphantly call it a 'flounce' and take it as a sign of victory. Maybe I should do the same? Nah. But don't go, I have the first part of the script for you!SCENE 1 – Outside a Sleazy Bar, Nighttimeginmar: What do you mean I'm getting kicked out! This is a blatant example of the patriarchy keeping a woman down! I swear you'll pay for this!!!Bartender: Sorry lady, no more drinks until you pay your tab. You want me to call you a cab or what?ginmar: OOOH, sure, I'm just a helpless woman who can't call her own transportation! Good thing there's a strong man here to take care of me! Isn't that right? You make me sick! *vomits on sidewalk*Bartender: What? Look, I just meant you're in no condition to drive and-ginmar: Spare me your -BLEARGH- mansplaining! -ARGLBL- You sexist *cough* *cough* small-dicked *hack* bingo card *splutter* MRAs *cough* loser!Bartender: Whatever, lady. You're on your own. *walks back inside*ginmar: That's right, you're just another loser who can't handle a strong woman like me! Ughh… now where did I park… *smacks into streetlamp* Aha! A phallic symbol placed here by the patriarchy to oppress women! I'll get you too, don't you worry *stumbles away, muttering*more tomorrow if I don't get banned :)Ion's nothing but an MRA asshole, and people tend to forget just how much shit he's pulled. I won't. And if people don't like the way I respond to the little cockpuller, then too fucking bad. BAn him or nail him, but don't expect me to tolerate his shit.
>The US is moving towards having women serve on subs but there is of course opposition but that seems to be more about "well we never did it that way before" then anything based on women not being able to serve. And if there were issues with mixing the two, why is it not possible to have all male and all female crews?
>Oh yeah, that was a time when ginmar said she was leaving but came back to rant some more! She didn't stick the flounce! lol. Also, check out her response to me even before I wrote that.Incidentally I'm quite proud of that script. I think it reflects reality, as art should. :P
>I did say that you were correct on the tone Ginmar in most cases-and Ion certainly fits in with those cases.He also has been going too far with the sleazy "Oh do not tell anyone about our love affair" comments. Ugh. It is a very repellent way of being dismissive and sexist all rolled into one big ball of yuck.
>It does not reflect reality or the way women, drunk or not, really act Ion.It reflects what you think women are like though. And that reflection is a poor one.
>I'd rather have one ginmar watching my back than a dozen like you, Ion. Even if I fucked up I could count on her to tell me to my face what I'd done wrong. With you or anyone like you I'd have to constantly worry about getting hung out to dry or outright shanked in the back for breaking some unwritten rule of being a Real Man.
>"You not only do not refute them, you excuse their misogyny as if they have just cause to feel that way."Nobody made any excuses. They are responsible for their own words. But it's still important to understand what caused them to feel the way they do.Mr. Nolan has many times told his tale of woe. If he is to be believed, feminist laws caused him to lose his children and his finances. I have no reason to not believe him."I am not a feminist either. I just think that the MRAs are giving the rest of the men in the world a bad name"You know what? Due to recent events, I'm starting to agree with this sentiment, for entirely different reasons.The MRA movement is becoming so bloated with racists, nationalists, pick-up artists, and "man up" idiots that it's losing its purpose. Combating feminism is an entirely necessary and justified goal, but when my "allies" are nearly as repulsive it's difficult to associate with them. All of these parasitic hangers-on need to be eliminated before men's rights can advance.
>I don't subscribe to many of Ion's points of view, but give him his due- that "Andrea Dworkin Leaves the Bar" scene is actually pretty funny.
>Thank you kind sir! I'm working on a second scene, gathered quite a bit of inspiration around here these past few days. :)
>I didn't find it funny… perhaps because I recognize that it doesn't reflect any sort of reality except the twisted version inside Ion's head.
>Frankly, I don't see HOW you could find it funny unless you DO subscribe to Ion's viewpoints.
>Nice use of shaming tactics to drive people away. "If you're not with us, you're against us!" Too bad it's so transparent.If someone else finds it funny, will the terrorists have won?
>@forwegThe MRA movement is becoming so bloated with racists, nationalists, pick-up artists, and "man up" idiots that it's losing its purpose. Combating feminism is an entirely necessary and justified goal, but when my "allies" are nearly as repulsive it's difficult to associate with them. All of these parasitic hangers-on need to be eliminated before men's rights can advance. Yeah, guys! Can't we go back to hating women, like we did in the old days?
>@forwegY'know, not telling you how to live your life or nothin', but when these are the kinds of people your movement is attracting, (in your words "bloated with") it may be time to just step back and take the timefor some frank introspection.
>Ion, I think you're missing something important here… that is, that you really SHOULD be ashamed of yourself, for being such a total jerkwad. Hating women is something that normal people view as shameful. Kind of like people are (somewhat) ashamed to admit they are racist. That's why you get people like that Orange County Republican sending out blatantly racist emails and then claiming, "But I'm not racist!"
>Forweg, I am impressed that you choose to distance yourself from the most fringe elements in the MRM. People like that aren't going to sell their ideas well to the mainstream. I think it is disturbing that there are so many radicals and extremists on websites like the Spearhead. Even the moderate stuff there is too extreme, in my opinion. If those people toned down their anger and hatred, maybe they could better express their problems.I have read Peter Nolan's life story, and agree that if it is true, it is sad for him. However, that does not justify his decision to rant and rave against all women like he does. Have you seen this quote of his? Look for his quote near the end of the comments section on the link I am providing. His bitter divorce is not an excuse for such violent rhetoric. Notice that of the Spearhead readers, only three have yet given him a thumbs down, yet 37 gave him a thumbs up. http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/02/22/the-high-road/Ion, I don't think there was a "you're with us or against us" argument used. I think it's true that if someone got a kick out of that bar story, they probably agree somewhat with it. That seems like a reasonable assumption, and not any kind of "shaming tactic". Those shaming tactics are simply arbitrary debating rules used by people that don't want to hear valid criticisms of their opinions. Sometimes people should feel shame, if they are expressing ideas other people find abhorrent.
>"How dare you reply in kind to our attacks! You're just a mean poopoohead who hates women!"Yawn.
>Man, I am on the fence about the whole feminists vs MRAs thingNo you're not. This faux voice of moderation form of trolling is extremely common, dude. You're not some relentlessly rational observer, you're not above the conflict, you're not a lone voice of reason. And making false equivalences between MRAs and feminists doesn't make you a moderate.
>I have plenty of reason to disbelieve Mr. Nolan's account. So do you-Mr. Nolan is what we call a Constitutionalist or a Sovereign Citizen. He refuses to recognize any authority beyond his own over him. That means that regardless of who thought the law up, such as the founding fathers (who no one can claim were a bunch of feminists), he will not follow the law. So if he lost his kids, it was very unlikely it had anything to do with any kind of child custody laws and more to do with his refusal to follow any law period.
>trip:It's not trolling; it's the fallacy of the golden mean. Someone who wants to be fair and open-minded may think that they're not being open-minded if they disagree with everything one side says.The problem, of course, is that it's perfectly possible for someone's opinion to be completely wrong, and compromising between a view that's provably false and a view that isn't is not being fair, it's being stupid.
>"No, they are perfectly normal people who stood up for themselves"Perfectly normal people? ahahahaha Being a feminist zealot makes you far from normal.As it seems, no feminist on here is normal as they keep constantly screaming at men about how they are somehow the privileged class and this invisible imaginary patriarchy is to blame for all their problems. When you ask them to prove it, they direct you to what some other nutter feminist said and explain that just because another feminist said so, it's undeniable truthhhh I tell ya. And about the privilege crap, riiight. There are more women employed than men and men have to do all the most dangerous and dirty jobs. Not only that, political correctness favours women when it comes to gender issues.Seriously, more than anything, all I see from the feminists here is a disturbing mental illness.
>So far we have:NWO – "WHARGLBLARG!!!! mENZ GETz TOO TELLZ U WHO UR LEdERSz R!!!"Forweg – "I get to tell you what you can be offended by"And Ion "I get to tell you what's funny."Sadly, I was hoping for more analysis in Sheldmaidens and their codependencies.
>"Forweg – "I get to tell you what you can be offended by""Hahaha. Feminists and projection are peas in a pod, as usual.You know, I'm a pretty self-absorbed guy. I remember talking about myself a lot here, but I don't particularly remember telling others what to be offended by.In fact, it's not a behavior I normally engage in either. Strange.Oh, wait. Memory loss must be another perk of the patriarchy. Wow, it feels awesome to be given so many magical abilities in life just because I'm male. Cool beans.
>Elizabeth, I agree about Nolan. And given the sort of nonsense he believes in and promulgates, I can't trust a single thing he says on any subject, including himself. He has zero credibility.
>Nick, do not let easily found information impede on your worldview. "There are more women employed than men…" "Women comprised 46.8 percent of the total U.S. labor force [in 2009] and are projected to account for 46.9 percent of the labor force in 2010."(from the US department of labor http://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/main.htm)Women are 50.7% of the US population.(from the Census Bureau http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html)Ah, reality, it is a harsh mistress…
>Those guys tend to be really nasty and loud in court-at one point, one of the ones who showed up here locally had to be gagged because he refused to be quiet despite repeated requests during his trial. Security also had to be increased because these guys no qualms about getting violent with anyone.
>Wow Darkside Cat, you may have proved me wrong in that point. Considering that the US department of Labor also indicates that the wage gap theory is NOT due to discrimination against women must be true also. As the same source (US department of Labor)has something that's in your favourable opinion.Speaking of the awful males being so privileged and all, I forgot to mention that it's a fact (I won't bother looking up the stats as it's well known) that most homeless people are men.
>Mr. Nolan is what we call a Constitutionalist or a Sovereign Citizen. He refuses to recognize any authority beyond his own over him.And yet he is quick to preach that women should have no sovereignty nor autonomy of any kind, that they should be the chattel property of men and LOVE it because it's for their own good. Yep, no yoke around his neck, but if you're not a penis-bearer then, by golly, you'd better have a yoke around yours!!Relayed a story at (I believe it was) the Spearhead, about how he had to lock himself in the bathroom in order that his wife (now his ex) not feel his wrath over her refusing him sex when he wanted it… thought himself a hero for doing so. Yep, can't imagine why any woman would want to ditch that self-described "perfect husband and father".
>Most homeless individuals are male-families are usually headed by females. SourceAnd just because I am nice sometimes: The Statistical Abstract of the United States for those of us who live in the US is an excellent place to start when looking for stats. This is Australia's. Enjoy…
>Elizabeth and Pam, that is some scary stuff Peter Nolan believes in. He calls himself a Sovereign? Then his majesty needs to look around and realize he has no territory or people to rule. In the US, people like that are thrown in prison for tax evasion and harassment. I could only imagine how awful women would live if he actually had jurisdiction over real people in the real world. The more I learn, the more I feel sorry for his ex wife. I don't blame her for refusing to have sex with him. His side of the divorce story makes him out to be such a victim, but why would a helpless victim advocate mass violence against strangers?
>Ion whines about shaming language while he trots out his pathetic little fantasies—and calls me Andrea Dworkin. Flounce, Ion, flounce. Aren't you supposed to be gone? Jeez, are all MRAs as petulant as Scott Adams? Because that's who Ion is acting like.
>you know what, I'm tired of the fucing MRM claiming that all feminists are bad because of andrea dworkin so, I'm going to give the MRM a couple of other feminist quotesEvery time we liberate a woman, we liberate a man. ~Margaret MeadMen weren't really the enemy – they were fellow victims suffering from an outmoded masculine mystique that made them feel unnecessarily inadequate when there were no bears to kill. ~Betty FriedanFirst and foremost, I'm a feminist. And basically that stems from a strong belief that all people and creatures deserve equal opportunity, rights and respect. Kathy NajimyThe feminist movement has helped open minds and kitchens to the notion that men can be at home on the range.Rene Veaux You don't have to be anti-man to be pro-woman. ~Jane Galvin LewisOne of the things about equality is not just that you be treated equally to a man, but that you treat yourself equally to the way you treat a man. ~Marlo ThomasI do not wish them to have power over men, but over themselves. ~Mary WollstonecraftThe little rift between the sexes is astonishingly widened by simply teaching one set of catchwords to the girls and another to the boys. ~Robert Louis StevensonAll this pitting of sex against sex, of quality against quality; all this claiming of superiority and imputing of inferiority belong to the private-school stage of human existence where there are sides, and it is necessary for one side to beat another side. ~Virginia Woolf
>UK stats:A greater proportion of men than women of working age in the UK were in employment in 2008. In the second quarter of 2008 the employment rate was 79 per cent for men and 70 per cent for women, unchanged since 1999. The employment rates for men have been rising since the second quarter of 1971, levelling off in more recent years. Over the same period the female employment rates have generally increased, although almost half are part time jobs.http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1654From the Office of National Statistics. Follow the link, it has lots of pretty graphs!
>GinmarA couple of questionsDo you believe that foul language and calling people disparaging names, even if you disagree with their world view helps make the world a better place?Is this your blog? If not wouldn't it be better to leave telling people to leave to the owner of this blog?Do you believe that your comments are good representation of feminism for the non-ifeminists and non mra's that may (and do) look into this blog as being something funny, and also become educated on the horrors of the mra?
>It's not trolling; it's the fallacy of the golden mean.In Ion's case, it's trolling. He's clearly a misogynist, but he's pretending he's some dispassionate moderate who's neither feminist nor MRA. I mean, there are people who sincerely push for a "golden mean" position, I agree with that. But it's also a common facade for trolls to adopt.
>About T4T–he may not swear much, but his rank dishonesty is far more uncivil than 1,000 "fuck"s could ever be(Sally)Priceless.Thanks Ion. Do you have a blog?
>Kendra-they tend to view reality as a ceaseless war in which those who do not believe are enemies of their state. So killing others is not that big a deal because enemies should die during war.
>“A greater proportion of men than women of working age in the UK were in employment in 2008. In the second quarter of 2008 the employment rate was 79 per cent for men and 70 per cent for women, unchanged since 1999. The employment rates for men have been rising since the second quarter of 1971, levelling off in more recent years. Over the same period the female employment rates have generally increased, although almost half are part time jobs.”This stat and the other stat presented seem to be before or in the beginning of the recession. It would be nice to see a stat in 2011. Most jobs lost were by men in the labouring and manufacturing fields. The hard sweat shop jobs men do while women are mostly in luxury in their safe and aircon environments.That said, the unemployment rate Darkside presented is only a .1 percent difference. Holy fuck! That said, I guess most of the gender in hard labour and dangerous jobs compared to easier jobs must be the privileged after all. *yawn*"Most homeless individuals are male-families are usually headed by females"For one, where about in this source does it say this. Secondly, the point is that more males than females are homeless.If the tables were turned, feminists would be crying out oppression left, right, and centre. But when it's males, there's silence.Not to mention Most tax payer’s money goes towards women’s health compared to men’s.Billions of tax payer’s money goes towards women’s DV shelters, not men’s.Child custody in women’s favour.Women get taken more seriously in DV and rape claims.Women are likely to get more lenient sentences compared to men in the justice system.In most cases in a public stance, men get laughed at for expressing their issues while women get sympathy all around.More men die in work accidents compared to women as they are the ones expected to do the dangerous jobs that women are capable of doing.Males the more privileged class? My fucking ass.
>You know, there's no way to win with an MRA when it comes to employment stats. If more men than women are working, it's because the noble men are slaving away to support vicious harpies busy having other men's children. If more women than men are working, it's because they've shoved men aside and want all the power for themselves. That's because they don't actually have a reality based philosophy of life, they just adjust the interpretation of statistics to fit their preconceived notions of 'women = evil.'Currently, women initiate 70% of divorce, which only indicates to an MRA that she's only using her soon-to-be-ex husband for alimony and child support and never really loved him or wanted the marriage to work. If it were flipped around, and men initiated 70% of divorces, it would be that men were miserable to be saddled to nagging bitches and were finally freeing themselves from marital bondage. And if you really care about things like male victims of domestic violence, the suicide rate among men or the amount of homeless men – talk about them in and of themselves. Don't use them as cheap shots to try and support your case that feminists are awful people. These are actual, suffering men and they deserve your compassion and support – not to be used as a cheap trick to try and put a feminist in her place.
>Outside of breast cancer, what other female health care issues are given more funding? In fact, until about 20 years ago, most drugs/medical treatments/operations were geared towards males because no one thought about including women. Some research was done on female specific disorders but as a whole, nothing was done. Take the example of heart attacks-male symptoms are completely different then female symptoms. Males have a different reaction to treatments involving surgery then women do. That is one reason why in the US, the FDA now requires that researchers pay attention (not they do but they are required to) to the differences between the sexes.
>Women have more funding for DV shelters because they got together and organized. This is not something men are prohibited from doing or helping out with. However no one will tell you it will be easy.
>Child custody disputes are responding to the complaints about the "tender years doctrine" that awarded automatically custody to mothers (a reversal from when the Declaration of Rights and Sentiments called for women to be awarded custody since courts automatically gave them to fathers). Of course this does not mean that divorcing parents (mothers or fathers) will have an easier time of splitting custody."There are about 2.2 million moms in this country like Julie, moms who don’t have primary physical custody of their children. And the number of working moms who lose primary custody has been rising steadily." This country being the US.
>Men have NO reproductive rights. Don't even think of saying men have the right to not have sex, because after the man and woman have sex and conception takes place they BOTH could've not had sex but they chose to.Um… what?Men CAN use contraceptives before conception, stupid. WTF are you talking about? Do you mean abortion? Hey, I'm down with men having the right to get an abortion. I doubt they'll ever need to use it, since men rarely get pregnant, but sure why not?
>As for being laughed at for expressing male needs? When Representative Howard Smith added the amendment regarding women to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the laughter was so loud that it was noted in the Congressional Record. It took a long time and a hell of a lot of effort to change that perception. As Molly Ivins (she is funny read her) pointed out about Aunt Susan (B. Anthony): "When she started, God and Nature were assumed to be aligned in the subjugation of women."So stop using the fact that someone laughs at a man demanding to be heard on an issue he cares about as an excuse to do nothing. Because that is all it is.
>So stop using the fact that someone laughs at a man demanding to be heard on an issue he cares about as an excuse to do nothing. Because that is all it is. Oh great, now Elizabeth wants to take away our excuse to do nothing! Will our oppression never cease, my brothers?
>And finally, men die in higher numbers because of the choices they make.One thing they could do to stop it is unionize, make different risk assessments, and pay attention to safety manuals, tips and requirements.And Nick, treating women in the traditionally male dominated fields like crap tends to make them not want to work in the dangerous jobs. So get that to stop, and you solve the problem of more men dying then women. (Well probably not, women tend pay attention to instructions.)Sorry about the repeated posts David but it would not all fit in one.
>Have some bacon roses CB. Better?
>Wow…I'm speechless.