>
Recently, “game” guru Roissy offered his readers a list of “Cheap And Easy Ways To Raise Your Value To A Girl.” Most were fairly standard pick up artist tricks of the “act like an aloof jerk and she’ll worship you” variety. According to Roissy, though, these little tricks will miraculously enable guys
to date women one to three points higher than you could be expected to get by societal standards. Do these to a girlfriend and you will be a god to her. A god among penii.
A few examples:
Don’t call back right away. Done properly, you will start to hear girls say things like “I didn’t hear back from you. You were making me nervous!”
Don’t live together. It’s much harder to project mystery living under the same roof, watching each other fold laundry every week. (Not to mention side action will be more difficult to coordinate.)
Cancel dates. (Make the reason seem apparently legitimate, but suspicious.)
Muse wistfully about past lovers.Never do her a favor before you’ve had sex with her.
Never laugh at her jokes, even when they’re funny. If you must, chuckle under your breath.
When at her place, eat all her food, leave the seat up, change her TV channels, and torture her cat. Act like it’s your second home.
Bo-ring. These tricks may have worked on women once upon a time, but today’s women are far too sophisticated to fall for these tired old ruses . If you really want to score with the hot babes of today, you’ve got to kick your game up a notch — or three. To help, I have come up with some “New and Improved Cheap And Easy Ways To Raise Your Value To A Girl.”
Wear a banana peel on your head like a hat. This will help to create an aura of “mystery” around yourself, as well as a lovely banana-y scent that will follow you everywhere.
Poke her nose playfully after sex and say, in a cheerful voice, “Hitler was right about you!” She will ponder this one for days.
Never laugh at her jokes. Instead, fall to the floor and begin singing “Rock Me Amadeus.”
Go out on “dates” with imaginary people. Introduce her to these people, and slyly suggest a “threesome.” (Or a “foursome,” if you are dating two imaginary people at the same time.)
Muse wistfully about butter.
Don’t buy her gifts. Instead, sneak clumps of dirt into her lingerie drawer.
Never call her back right away. Instead, hide under her bed and make low moaning sounds.
If you end up in an argument with her, shout out “mom always loved you better!” Then set her couch on fire.
Don’t move in with her. Instead, move into the apartment above hers, and watch her through tiny holes drilled in the floor.
When at her place, eat her cat, torture her TV, and replace her toilet with a sack of potatoes. Act like Meryl Streep in Sophie’s Choice, including the accent.
Go forth, my young apprentices, and score like never before!
—
If you enjoyed this post, would you kindly use the “Share This” or one of the other buttons below to share it on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, or wherever else you want. I appreciate it.
>Nothing turns me on like cat..torturing. (???)If you wrote a dating advice book I would totally buy it.
>I think Roisy is confusing "Cheap and Easy Ways to Raise the Value of Your Girl" with "How to get the other person to dump you".
>Tears of laughter, Dave! Tears! I salute you, sir.
>You need to teach a class. Seriously. So much money.Just come up with a stupid name (I suggest Boobzman) and you're pretty much there. I think I would go out with a guy who followed your method, if only for the butter-musing. Mmmm, butter. We've had some good times, butter and I. Also, I'd like to be called Stingo. It could be our "thing."
>I wonder how successful the adherents of Roissy's system actually are. They certainly claim to be, but I can't imagine anyone being willing to be treated like crap like this for any period of time.
>If I had to dump a guy, I'd rather it be one following Dave's advice than Roissy's. Roissy's advice is just standard jerk-boyfriend. Dave's leaves you with a story.Might I recommend replacing the banana with a cored-out pumpkin? Longer shelf life than a banana peel, easier to keep on the head, and an infinitely sexier scent. Plus, bananas have ethical concerns attached to their production, much like diamonds.
>Anyone who harms my pets gets a visit from the sheriff's office. The other stuff is why I do not date. Ugh.
>I would have to say, if a guy didn't call me back or if he canceled dates with me, I would – as would any polite person – assume that he didn't have an interest in me. And I also wonder how successful that approach really is. I can't see where it would be.And I'm so going to poke random people on the nose and say "Hitler was right about you", in the most adorable and grandmotherly way I can. Maybe I'll even say it when pinching their cheek.
>There are so many things wrong with his advice but the part about never laughing at her jokes? Seriously, if someone's an arse like that I can't see anyone staying attracted to them. And like others, the part about [even mildly] "torturing" my cat = get the FUCK out; I don't want to hear from you ever again.
>Cruelty to animals is generally a predictor of… god, I can't remember what. Help me out. Oh yeah, now I remember: Getting laid! Wait.. that's not it… sheesh, my memory sucks these days.
>Never laugh at her jokes. Instead, fall to the floor and begin singing "Rock Me Amadeus." Okay, I really did lol.
>Johnny-combine it with bedwetting and you got yourself two strong indicators of serial killing.
>And I'm so going to poke random people on the nose and say "Hitler was right about you", in the most adorable and grandmotherly way I can.It's such a spectacularly wicked idea. I am in awe of the brazen display of asshattery.
>bedwetting is a total pussy magnet.
>Actually, the whole list is funny, and a few things- like the banana- would actually work with a quirky girl or even in anotherwise staid relationship. Women in general LOVE humor in men.And geez, guys, obviously Dave didn't mean to REALLY torture a cat. Some of his list is so over the top that it would more likely cause the lady to think you're a nutty creep than attract her to you. But actually, some of this stuff works because it's funny and unexpected and people SHOULD play with each other like this more often.Roissy has his points too, but if you act like a jerk all the time that will get old quick. Then again, Roissy never claims to be about building "relationships" though he claims to value them. He's mostly an "intrigue her with the dark triad, get in her panties and get out" type of guy.
>Which begs the question if some woman came up to Roissy and said "I literally want only one instance of sex. Please refrain from contacting me again afterward" would he get upset?
>Elizabeth:Almost certainly not. He's not looking for any girl to get her "hooks" into him, and while he'll say sluts are damaged all day long, he will still admit they are the type of girls that keep him rolling in the poon, he just doesn't want to marry them, or ANYONE for that matter. Guy's like 45 and childless and doesn't want a kid. Like a lot of the more radical fems, radical male "ghosts" , and silly women who "wait too long" he won't be leaving his genes to the next generation.
>My boss (I work at a call centre) is actually a disciple of this guy (or was, before he converted to Islam) and used to teach a pick-up class himself. He told me about the tactics he taught and a lot of them actually made sense if you were just trying to get with a girl, not have a relationship with her.
>He told me about the tactics he taught and a lot of them actually made sense if you were just trying to get with a girl, not have a relationship with her. They're particularly helpful if you get off on having sex with women who have low self-esteem and are desperate for validation. Even more so if you view sex as a form of conquest and automatically think of every woman who sleeps with you as a slut. So it's great for misogynists is what I'm saying.
>Women sure do hate arrogant and aloof men. That's why no woman on the face of the earth fantasizes about the likes of Mr. Big, Mr. Darcy, and Rhett Butler.
>Women sure do hate arrogant and aloof men. That's why no woman on the face of the earth fantasizes about the likes of Mr. Big, Mr. Darcy, and Rhett Butler. The point is that women are individuals who want different things. That's one reason these lists of rules that will supposedly work on any woman are ridiculous (that and the sexism).Certainly there are some women these rules will work on. Not generally the kind I'd want to date, but that's me.
>Another important point is that, if a man is aloof and a little arrogant, but sincere and genuinely not misogynist, there's nothing wrong with that.But many of the lists of "rules," including the one David is mocking, are basically guides on being a manipulative and abusive boyfriend. And the people writing this list justify it because they believe women are all manipulative and abusive, so the end result is they're trying to make relationships into an antagonistic, zero-sum conflict. And then they wonder why they keep getting screwed in relationships.
>It's one thing to be aloof and arrogant.It's another thing to be kind of whiny and insecure, and then attempt to mask these traits through a series of bizarre behaviors.Funny thing, I've been accused of being aloof and arrogant, and I've never taken it as a compliment.
>everything he suggests would be something that would make me dump any guy I dated. So if the PUA's goal is to have the opposite effect of what we are all thinking it is then it is working. Otherwise I think YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
>This is one thing that is insane with guys like Roissy, he gives advice to have one-night-stand with women that have psychological problems. And yet, he and his admirers believe that he's an expert in the way to find (and to keep) a girlfriend.
>LOL!Roissy is not considered an expert on "keeping" a girlfriend. Most of the men on his blog want their one-night stands. Dave in Hawaii, Married Man Sex Life – those are blogs that work on using positive parts of game to enrich long term relationships. As for Roissy, if his advice gets some shy , awkward guy laid – well, that guy is still better off than if he listened to the BS that is normal dating advice such as "just be yourself" – which should be "learn how to best present your strongest traits", but since its not it leads many men astray.This thread is funny, in a way though. I half expected most of you to go that this stuff doesn't work, and that Roissy has a small penis, and never gets laid , and all that other crap. It seems this part of the feminosphere has graduated to attacking the quality of the lays..hey, keep going. Maybe someday Roissy and the men like him WHO ARE after only one thing will give a crap. Roissy's evil, but he's at least partly the result of the neglect of shy or awkward guys in this society. Said guys will find him instead of some feminist as a guru. Then the feminist will whine about misogyny and all that crap, but when it comes down to it what Roissy says will work, and what the feminist says will mostly not work and will saddle a guy who has issues with women with lots of unneeded guilt as well and a tendency to walk on eggshells lest he violate someone's boundaries – things which shift from woman to woman.Oh, and then there's the wonderful feminist women who will say that helping guys approach girls in a feminist way is not the responsibility of feminism.You reap what you sow, and this is only the first part of payback.I remember reading Susan Faludis "The Backlash" 12 years ago and wondering if this woman had any idea of what a REAL "backlash" was.This is part of that real backlash. Enjoy ladies and gents.
>This list totally reminds me of this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cAfoZWzl8M
>"I would have to say, if a guy didn't call me back or if he canceled dates with me, I would – as would any polite person – assume that he didn't have an interest in me. And I also wonder how successful that approach really is. I can't see where it would be."Yeah, now that I'm happily married and out of the dating scene, I realize that I avoided a lot of crappy relationships by being clueless enough to think that if a guy acted like he didn't like me, it meant he didn't like me. When a guy snubbed me or insulted me, I just felt bad and moved on. Not until much later did it occur to me that some of these guys were probably trying PUA moves on me or something, and I was supposed to go crazy trying to win the magnificent gift of their attention. This was one area where my limited social acumen saved me.I don't know who this Roissy guy is and I'm not even sure how to pronounce his amusing made-up name, but… Clarence, are you him?
>shaenon:You flatter me. My name links to my pathetic little blog (though to be fair, only because David boy chickened out on allowing anonymous comments ) whereas Roissy has spread across the internet like a plague and pissed off people from Conner Friedsdorf to Amanda Marcotte.Go over to the left hand side. The blog used to be called "Roissy in DC". Now, it's called " Citizen Renegade".I don't write anywhere near as well as the evil gifted one. But thanks for the compliment. My only issue with your accusation is that I'm interested in LTR's with gals, and hence I don't do notch-counts with other guys, and I'm either wimpish or ethical enough (your pick) to only use the "light side" stuff that Roissy peddles.
>This is absolutely the saddest item on the list:"Don’t ask questions about her. A high value man does not find the lives of others very interesting in comparison to his own."Yeah, when I think, "man who gets bored talking about anything other than himself," I think something a little bit different from "high value man."(The "high value" and "raising your value" stuff is another thing that fascinates me: this weirdly consumerist approach to relationships. But enough for now.)
>I'm manipulative, sure. But so what? It's alot better than being manipulated. It's a cliche but it's true: all's fair in love and war.Listen, I'm not some bitter MRA with an axe to grind. I'm just a guy who tried being a nice, gentlemanly, evolved, and sensitive 21st century male for the first 27 years of my life. How did that work out for me? Well, I ended up with a lot of heartbreak, cuckoldry, and humiliation as I watched the women I wanted go for all the assholes, douchebags, and bad boys.So instead of crying in my beer, I started to emulate the men that women fawned over. I judged women by their actions rather than their words. And yes, I took alot of advice from Roissy and the so-called PUAs. And how did this new method work out for me? My sex life – and therefore my life as a whole – has never been better. Every time I approach a woman I'm attracted to, I know I have a pretty darn good chance of having sex with her.So go ahead and tell me Roissy's advice won't work, or that it will only work on depressed and emotionally stunted women. I'll just laugh, because my life is proof that that's a lie. And you know what? There are thousands of guys out there with the exact same story as me. We're Roissy's core audience. When we defend him, it's not because we agree with every over-the-top and intentionally outrageous thing he writes. And it's not because his advice works 100% of the time. It doesn't, and he never claims it does.We're loyal to the bastard because he literally helped change our lives for the better. And that is a very rare thing. So if all of this makes me an asshole and a misogynist, then so be it. Of all the unpleasant things a human can endure, being the target of feminist snark is pretty low on the list.Better to be a bastard who's happy than a good man who's miserable.
>What the hell.His advice seems so surreal. I mean, not laughing about your date's joke, even if it was funny? Torturing your date's pet??I got nothing. Dave's advice is kind of awesome, though. In a cloudcookolander-ish way. @ RomanCandleSo, you just proved my suspicion that one of Roissy's target groups are Nice Guys (TM). You know why his shit may work for you? Because when you were a Nice Guy, apparently you only were nice to get laid. But you didn't get laid. So you tried the douche-bag approach and were a lot more sincere about your intentions. Congrats! Now you were able to bed girls with no self esteem who wanted to get some kind of validation after you made them feel like shit! SPOILER:You actually never were a nice person to begin with.
>shaenon– Roissy is named after the chateau in Story of O. This provides more evidence for my theory that he is a frustrated dom trying to make the rest of the world fit his fetish.RomanCandle– I have never met a woman who went for a douchebag. The closest I have come– literally– is one of my friends who had a very traumatic life, who dumped her boyfriend for being too normal and unable to understand what it was like to Baker-Act your sister at seven. But even then she decided to go for a kind guy who also has a traumatic past.
>"I wonder how successful the adherents of Roissy's system actually are . . ."—LVvSNo question, Roissy is infinitely more successful than David will ever be despite all of his feminist kow towing. Full stop.
>"Better to be a bastard who's happy than a good man who's miserable."RomanCandleQFT
>To shaennon:Insulting a woman to get her is called a Neg and guys that do that are negging women, or playing "Asshole game"To ClarenceComments:Most Roissy supporters see him as an expert in women – including finding a girlfriend and keeping her.To triplanetary:"… automatically think of every woman who sleeps with you as a slut."These ideas are widespread in the manosphere, they think that sex is dirty. That's one of the reason they have no girlfriend.
>"No question, Roissy is infinitely more successful than David will ever be despite all of his feminist kow towing. Full stop."I think most people don't adopt feminism to "pick up chicks". You're drawing a rather odd comparison. Anyway, I've managed to be a pretty successful dater as a feminist. As it turns out, if you treat people like human beings you can have some success. Maybe I should write a book with that as the only line.
>Oh, Johnny, you are soooo cute.I just want to pinch your cheeks, you lil sprite.I bet if someone was to videotape your "success" they'd find you were using some "game" techniques without even knowing it. Now, I'm willing to bet your a good, decent guy who mostly only manipulates and "objectifies" subconsciously, but you still do those things. Every human does.As for your advice, it's not really good advice. What it means tends to vary from feminist to feminist, and it doesn't help some awkward guy create any attraction. It's almost as bad as "just be yourself", which only really applies in LTR.Oh well, maybe you will grow up a bit and realize the world doesn't operate on slogans.
>@KollegeRiddle me this: if I was such a phony nice guy before and women could see through my exterior to my dark and twisted soul, then why did they all think I was sweet and funny? Why did they all want to be my friend?Getting women to like me was not a problem. Getting women to be attracted to me? That was.Could it be that maybe, just maybe, you're projecting what you want to be true onto me? That men, generally speaking, have more romantic and sexual success with women (all types of women, not just those with low self-esteem) if he is a bit of an asshole?@OzymandiasYou've never seen a woman go for a douchebag? Really? There's a reason the website is called "Hot Chicks With Douchebags" and not "Hot Chicks With Male Feminists".And look at the romantic archetypes I mentioned above: Rhett Butler, Mr. Darcy, Mr. Big. Women fawn over these characters, and they were created by female writers. Add Don Draper to the list while you're at it, along with the entire cast of Jersey Shore! The thing they all have in common is an aloof, cocky attitude.Why wouldn't a single man try to emulate them? It's only logical.
>RomanCandle-if your sole goal is to get laid, perhaps it is better to be a bastard. But if your goal is to have a happy long term relationship, this advice does a lot stop the possibility.
>RomanCandle– Douchebags tend to mate with other douchebags. Therefore, over-muscled shirtless orange men tend to mate with fake-breasted too-much-makeup orange women. My contention is not that all women hate douchebags; it's that most women hate douchebags.On the other hand: Michael Cera. No one goes to see his movies because of the excellence of his acting, y'know? It's because he's sweet and gentle and slightly nerdy, and some women like that….Jersey Shore? Really?
>I don't think it's "game" if you're just carrying on. I think "game" is when one uses techniques to hide less flattering traits of their personality.Your speculation about "subconscious" manipulation is pointless. I derive success from being honest about myself. I also derive it from understanding the thing that seems to be lost on most MRAs: at the very core, all humans – women, men, other – all want the same things, they have the same hopes, desires, fears and anxieties. Speculation of course – but it's made me successful and relieved me of a lot of bitterness I once had.
>Cera is pretty hawt.
>Getting MRA's mixed up with PUA's doesn't do you or your argument a service, Johnny, though I will say that there is some crossover.It's not as if MRA's speculate on what drives male/female desire, I must have missed that pickup book by Glenn Sacks and the videotapes by Warren Farrell, so I don't know why you are grumping at them when you should be grumping at Roissy for exposing the fact that many women, esp. young women are very vacuous and shallow and understanding this can help one get "laid" if that is what one is after. Ooopsie. Did I just criticize females? Well, shut my mouth!In my 14 years on the 'net I've run into many "feminists" who refuse to apply the same standards to females that they do to males. It's rather grimly amusing."I derive success by being honest about myself". So, should I take that literally and assume you mean that every time you find a young lady's conversation boring or stupid you immediately tell her? Wouldn't want to have "tact" and "hide" anything now would we? You never observe the social niceties even when they make you grit your teeth?You truly are an admirable person! I wonder what you did when you suddenly became aroused when you were talking to a female friend and started imagining her with no clothes – did you immediately tell her this, or did you instead cover your discomfort, make some small excuse and end the conversation?See, I don't believe you for a second. Everyone advertises the better part of them in social settings – indeed, that's partly why "manners" were invented. There is absolutely nothing wrong with showing the most attractive (yet nonetheless true) aspects of your personality when you want to get to know someone. Only once a relationship has started, do they get to know you "warts and all" and guess what? That relationship ain't starting if you decide to treat your local club as if it's your bedroom and start nose-mining.What? You don't nose-mine in public? You disgusting manipulator,you. I'm sure there's been women who've had sex with you but haven't seen all your bad habits and warts. These women have been raped. Turn in your feminist badge immediately!That last paragraph was sarcasm. I trust you get my point.
>I have no idea who Mr. Big is, but I sure don't remember Mr. Darcy or Rhett Butler torturning small animals. What page was that?
>I suppose if men are fine being manipulative, self-absorbed assholes and treating women like dirt; and if there are women who want to sleep with manipulative assholes – they deserve each other. The rest of us, the sane people who recognize that members of the other gender are actual people, should be grateful that these people are sequestering themselves away from our dating pools. This is why I wish high school health classes taught relationship skills, not OMGHERPESBAD!!!
>Mr Big is a character of Sex and the City : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Big_%28Sex_and_the_City%29 And he doesn't torture small animals.ClarenceComments, do you understand that the only things you can get with PUAs technique is a one-night-stand with a drunken slut ? While all other guys have girlfriends. I know you must despise these guys and call them Betas.
>@Clarence, how is this " Everyone advertises the better part of them in social settings – indeed, that's partly why "manners" were invented. There is absolutely nothing wrong with showing the most attractive (yet nonetheless true) aspects of your personality when you want to get to know someone." in any way reasonably related to Roissy's cat torturing plans? If 'sociopathic asshole' is your best trait and you feel a need to emphasize it, please opt out of society and live in a hut somewhere away from the rest of us.
>Lady VIctoria Von Syrus:While it would be nice if that was to happen, it's rather impossible to do for liability reasons, if nothing else. I don't see how one could do a class like that without risking offending someone – and offending anyone is a big no-no in todays public schools. And of course there'd be the inevitable arguments over what to teach and what was true and false…no, it would just be a big mess. You already know what happens in terms of sexual health classes int he schools.And for much the same reasons, colleges would not and could not make "dating skills" a required course, though I suppose they could hire some faculty.
>DarkSideCat:Reading comprehension is a good thing to acquire. Since when did I ever state I sign off on everything Roissy says to do?