>New and Improved Cheap And Easy Ways To Raise Your Value To A Girl.
>
Recently, “game” guru Roissy offered his readers a list of “Cheap And Easy Ways To Raise Your Value To A Girl.” Most were fairly standard pick up artist tricks of the “act like an aloof jerk and she’ll worship you” variety. According to Roissy, though, these little tricks will miraculously enable guys
to date women one to three points higher than you could be expected to get by societal standards. Do these to a girlfriend and you will be a god to her. A god among penii.
A few examples:
Don’t call back right away. Done properly, you will start to hear girls say things like “I didn’t hear back from you. You were making me nervous!”
Don’t live together. It’s much harder to project mystery living under the same roof, watching each other fold laundry every week. (Not to mention side action will be more difficult to coordinate.)
Cancel dates. (Make the reason seem apparently legitimate, but suspicious.)
Muse wistfully about past lovers.Never do her a favor before you’ve had sex with her.
Never laugh at her jokes, even when they’re funny. If you must, chuckle under your breath.
When at her place, eat all her food, leave the seat up, change her TV channels, and torture her cat. Act like it’s your second home.
Bo-ring. These tricks may have worked on women once upon a time, but today’s women are far too sophisticated to fall for these tired old ruses . If you really want to score with the hot babes of today, you’ve got to kick your game up a notch — or three. To help, I have come up with some “New and Improved Cheap And Easy Ways To Raise Your Value To A Girl.”
Wear a banana peel on your head like a hat. This will help to create an aura of “mystery” around yourself, as well as a lovely banana-y scent that will follow you everywhere.
Poke her nose playfully after sex and say, in a cheerful voice, “Hitler was right about you!” She will ponder this one for days.
Never laugh at her jokes. Instead, fall to the floor and begin singing “Rock Me Amadeus.”
Go out on “dates” with imaginary people. Introduce her to these people, and slyly suggest a “threesome.” (Or a “foursome,” if you are dating two imaginary people at the same time.)
Muse wistfully about butter.
Don’t buy her gifts. Instead, sneak clumps of dirt into her lingerie drawer.
Never call her back right away. Instead, hide under her bed and make low moaning sounds.
If you end up in an argument with her, shout out “mom always loved you better!” Then set her couch on fire.
Don’t move in with her. Instead, move into the apartment above hers, and watch her through tiny holes drilled in the floor.
When at her place, eat her cat, torture her TV, and replace her toilet with a sack of potatoes. Act like Meryl Streep in Sophie’s Choice, including the accent.
Go forth, my young apprentices, and score like never before!
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Posted on February 2, 2011, in douchebaggery, I'm totally being sarcastic, sex. Bookmark the permalink. 216 Comments.
>Nothing turns me on like cat..torturing. (???)If you wrote a dating advice book I would totally buy it.
>I think Roisy is confusing "Cheap and Easy Ways to Raise the Value of Your Girl" with "How to get the other person to dump you".
>Tears of laughter, Dave! Tears! I salute you, sir.
>You need to teach a class. Seriously. So much money.Just come up with a stupid name (I suggest Boobzman) and you're pretty much there. I think I would go out with a guy who followed your method, if only for the butter-musing. Mmmm, butter. We've had some good times, butter and I. Also, I'd like to be called Stingo. It could be our "thing."
>I wonder how successful the adherents of Roissy's system actually are. They certainly claim to be, but I can't imagine anyone being willing to be treated like crap like this for any period of time.
>If I had to dump a guy, I'd rather it be one following Dave's advice than Roissy's. Roissy's advice is just standard jerk-boyfriend. Dave's leaves you with a story.Might I recommend replacing the banana with a cored-out pumpkin? Longer shelf life than a banana peel, easier to keep on the head, and an infinitely sexier scent. Plus, bananas have ethical concerns attached to their production, much like diamonds.
>Anyone who harms my pets gets a visit from the sheriff's office. The other stuff is why I do not date. Ugh.
>I would have to say, if a guy didn't call me back or if he canceled dates with me, I would – as would any polite person – assume that he didn't have an interest in me. And I also wonder how successful that approach really is. I can't see where it would be.And I'm so going to poke random people on the nose and say "Hitler was right about you", in the most adorable and grandmotherly way I can. Maybe I'll even say it when pinching their cheek.
>There are so many things wrong with his advice but the part about never laughing at her jokes? Seriously, if someone's an arse like that I can't see anyone staying attracted to them. And like others, the part about [even mildly] "torturing" my cat = get the FUCK out; I don't want to hear from you ever again.
>Cruelty to animals is generally a predictor of… god, I can't remember what. Help me out. Oh yeah, now I remember: Getting laid! Wait.. that's not it… sheesh, my memory sucks these days.
>Never laugh at her jokes. Instead, fall to the floor and begin singing "Rock Me Amadeus." Okay, I really did lol.
>Johnny-combine it with bedwetting and you got yourself two strong indicators of serial killing.
>And I'm so going to poke random people on the nose and say "Hitler was right about you", in the most adorable and grandmotherly way I can.It's such a spectacularly wicked idea. I am in awe of the brazen display of asshattery.
>bedwetting is a total pussy magnet.
>Actually, the whole list is funny, and a few things- like the banana- would actually work with a quirky girl or even in anotherwise staid relationship. Women in general LOVE humor in men.And geez, guys, obviously Dave didn't mean to REALLY torture a cat. Some of his list is so over the top that it would more likely cause the lady to think you're a nutty creep than attract her to you. But actually, some of this stuff works because it's funny and unexpected and people SHOULD play with each other like this more often.Roissy has his points too, but if you act like a jerk all the time that will get old quick. Then again, Roissy never claims to be about building "relationships" though he claims to value them. He's mostly an "intrigue her with the dark triad, get in her panties and get out" type of guy.
>Which begs the question if some woman came up to Roissy and said "I literally want only one instance of sex. Please refrain from contacting me again afterward" would he get upset?
>Elizabeth:Almost certainly not. He's not looking for any girl to get her "hooks" into him, and while he'll say sluts are damaged all day long, he will still admit they are the type of girls that keep him rolling in the poon, he just doesn't want to marry them, or ANYONE for that matter. Guy's like 45 and childless and doesn't want a kid. Like a lot of the more radical fems, radical male "ghosts" , and silly women who "wait too long" he won't be leaving his genes to the next generation.
>My boss (I work at a call centre) is actually a disciple of this guy (or was, before he converted to Islam) and used to teach a pick-up class himself. He told me about the tactics he taught and a lot of them actually made sense if you were just trying to get with a girl, not have a relationship with her.
>He told me about the tactics he taught and a lot of them actually made sense if you were just trying to get with a girl, not have a relationship with her. They're particularly helpful if you get off on having sex with women who have low self-esteem and are desperate for validation. Even more so if you view sex as a form of conquest and automatically think of every woman who sleeps with you as a slut. So it's great for misogynists is what I'm saying.
>Women sure do hate arrogant and aloof men. That's why no woman on the face of the earth fantasizes about the likes of Mr. Big, Mr. Darcy, and Rhett Butler.
>Women sure do hate arrogant and aloof men. That's why no woman on the face of the earth fantasizes about the likes of Mr. Big, Mr. Darcy, and Rhett Butler. The point is that women are individuals who want different things. That's one reason these lists of rules that will supposedly work on any woman are ridiculous (that and the sexism).Certainly there are some women these rules will work on. Not generally the kind I'd want to date, but that's me.
>Another important point is that, if a man is aloof and a little arrogant, but sincere and genuinely not misogynist, there's nothing wrong with that.But many of the lists of "rules," including the one David is mocking, are basically guides on being a manipulative and abusive boyfriend. And the people writing this list justify it because they believe women are all manipulative and abusive, so the end result is they're trying to make relationships into an antagonistic, zero-sum conflict. And then they wonder why they keep getting screwed in relationships.
>It's one thing to be aloof and arrogant.It's another thing to be kind of whiny and insecure, and then attempt to mask these traits through a series of bizarre behaviors.Funny thing, I've been accused of being aloof and arrogant, and I've never taken it as a compliment.
>everything he suggests would be something that would make me dump any guy I dated. So if the PUA's goal is to have the opposite effect of what we are all thinking it is then it is working. Otherwise I think YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
>This is one thing that is insane with guys like Roissy, he gives advice to have one-night-stand with women that have psychological problems. And yet, he and his admirers believe that he's an expert in the way to find (and to keep) a girlfriend.
>LOL!Roissy is not considered an expert on "keeping" a girlfriend. Most of the men on his blog want their one-night stands. Dave in Hawaii, Married Man Sex Life – those are blogs that work on using positive parts of game to enrich long term relationships. As for Roissy, if his advice gets some shy , awkward guy laid – well, that guy is still better off than if he listened to the BS that is normal dating advice such as "just be yourself" – which should be "learn how to best present your strongest traits", but since its not it leads many men astray.This thread is funny, in a way though. I half expected most of you to go that this stuff doesn't work, and that Roissy has a small penis, and never gets laid , and all that other crap. It seems this part of the feminosphere has graduated to attacking the quality of the lays..hey, keep going. Maybe someday Roissy and the men like him WHO ARE after only one thing will give a crap. Roissy's evil, but he's at least partly the result of the neglect of shy or awkward guys in this society. Said guys will find him instead of some feminist as a guru. Then the feminist will whine about misogyny and all that crap, but when it comes down to it what Roissy says will work, and what the feminist says will mostly not work and will saddle a guy who has issues with women with lots of unneeded guilt as well and a tendency to walk on eggshells lest he violate someone's boundaries – things which shift from woman to woman.Oh, and then there's the wonderful feminist women who will say that helping guys approach girls in a feminist way is not the responsibility of feminism.You reap what you sow, and this is only the first part of payback.I remember reading Susan Faludis "The Backlash" 12 years ago and wondering if this woman had any idea of what a REAL "backlash" was.This is part of that real backlash. Enjoy ladies and gents.
>This list totally reminds me of this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cAfoZWzl8M
>"I would have to say, if a guy didn't call me back or if he canceled dates with me, I would – as would any polite person – assume that he didn't have an interest in me. And I also wonder how successful that approach really is. I can't see where it would be."Yeah, now that I'm happily married and out of the dating scene, I realize that I avoided a lot of crappy relationships by being clueless enough to think that if a guy acted like he didn't like me, it meant he didn't like me. When a guy snubbed me or insulted me, I just felt bad and moved on. Not until much later did it occur to me that some of these guys were probably trying PUA moves on me or something, and I was supposed to go crazy trying to win the magnificent gift of their attention. This was one area where my limited social acumen saved me.I don't know who this Roissy guy is and I'm not even sure how to pronounce his amusing made-up name, but… Clarence, are you him?
>shaenon:You flatter me. My name links to my pathetic little blog (though to be fair, only because David boy chickened out on allowing anonymous comments ) whereas Roissy has spread across the internet like a plague and pissed off people from Conner Friedsdorf to Amanda Marcotte.Go over to the left hand side. The blog used to be called "Roissy in DC". Now, it's called " Citizen Renegade".I don't write anywhere near as well as the evil gifted one. But thanks for the compliment. My only issue with your accusation is that I'm interested in LTR's with gals, and hence I don't do notch-counts with other guys, and I'm either wimpish or ethical enough (your pick) to only use the "light side" stuff that Roissy peddles.
>This is absolutely the saddest item on the list:"Don’t ask questions about her. A high value man does not find the lives of others very interesting in comparison to his own."Yeah, when I think, "man who gets bored talking about anything other than himself," I think something a little bit different from "high value man."(The "high value" and "raising your value" stuff is another thing that fascinates me: this weirdly consumerist approach to relationships. But enough for now.)
>I'm manipulative, sure. But so what? It's alot better than being manipulated. It's a cliche but it's true: all's fair in love and war.Listen, I'm not some bitter MRA with an axe to grind. I'm just a guy who tried being a nice, gentlemanly, evolved, and sensitive 21st century male for the first 27 years of my life. How did that work out for me? Well, I ended up with a lot of heartbreak, cuckoldry, and humiliation as I watched the women I wanted go for all the assholes, douchebags, and bad boys.So instead of crying in my beer, I started to emulate the men that women fawned over. I judged women by their actions rather than their words. And yes, I took alot of advice from Roissy and the so-called PUAs. And how did this new method work out for me? My sex life – and therefore my life as a whole – has never been better. Every time I approach a woman I'm attracted to, I know I have a pretty darn good chance of having sex with her.So go ahead and tell me Roissy's advice won't work, or that it will only work on depressed and emotionally stunted women. I'll just laugh, because my life is proof that that's a lie. And you know what? There are thousands of guys out there with the exact same story as me. We're Roissy's core audience. When we defend him, it's not because we agree with every over-the-top and intentionally outrageous thing he writes. And it's not because his advice works 100% of the time. It doesn't, and he never claims it does.We're loyal to the bastard because he literally helped change our lives for the better. And that is a very rare thing. So if all of this makes me an asshole and a misogynist, then so be it. Of all the unpleasant things a human can endure, being the target of feminist snark is pretty low on the list.Better to be a bastard who's happy than a good man who's miserable.
>What the hell.His advice seems so surreal. I mean, not laughing about your date's joke, even if it was funny? Torturing your date's pet??I got nothing. Dave's advice is kind of awesome, though. In a cloudcookolander-ish way. @ RomanCandleSo, you just proved my suspicion that one of Roissy's target groups are Nice Guys (TM). You know why his shit may work for you? Because when you were a Nice Guy, apparently you only were nice to get laid. But you didn't get laid. So you tried the douche-bag approach and were a lot more sincere about your intentions. Congrats! Now you were able to bed girls with no self esteem who wanted to get some kind of validation after you made them feel like shit! SPOILER:You actually never were a nice person to begin with.
>shaenon– Roissy is named after the chateau in Story of O. This provides more evidence for my theory that he is a frustrated dom trying to make the rest of the world fit his fetish.RomanCandle– I have never met a woman who went for a douchebag. The closest I have come– literally– is one of my friends who had a very traumatic life, who dumped her boyfriend for being too normal and unable to understand what it was like to Baker-Act your sister at seven. But even then she decided to go for a kind guy who also has a traumatic past.
>"I wonder how successful the adherents of Roissy's system actually are . . ."—LVvSNo question, Roissy is infinitely more successful than David will ever be despite all of his feminist kow towing. Full stop.
>"Better to be a bastard who's happy than a good man who's miserable."RomanCandleQFT
>To shaennon:Insulting a woman to get her is called a Neg and guys that do that are negging women, or playing "Asshole game"To ClarenceComments:Most Roissy supporters see him as an expert in women – including finding a girlfriend and keeping her.To triplanetary:"… automatically think of every woman who sleeps with you as a slut."These ideas are widespread in the manosphere, they think that sex is dirty. That's one of the reason they have no girlfriend.
>"No question, Roissy is infinitely more successful than David will ever be despite all of his feminist kow towing. Full stop."I think most people don't adopt feminism to "pick up chicks". You're drawing a rather odd comparison. Anyway, I've managed to be a pretty successful dater as a feminist. As it turns out, if you treat people like human beings you can have some success. Maybe I should write a book with that as the only line.
>Oh, Johnny, you are soooo cute.I just want to pinch your cheeks, you lil sprite.I bet if someone was to videotape your "success" they'd find you were using some "game" techniques without even knowing it. Now, I'm willing to bet your a good, decent guy who mostly only manipulates and "objectifies" subconsciously, but you still do those things. Every human does.As for your advice, it's not really good advice. What it means tends to vary from feminist to feminist, and it doesn't help some awkward guy create any attraction. It's almost as bad as "just be yourself", which only really applies in LTR.Oh well, maybe you will grow up a bit and realize the world doesn't operate on slogans.
>@KollegeRiddle me this: if I was such a phony nice guy before and women could see through my exterior to my dark and twisted soul, then why did they all think I was sweet and funny? Why did they all want to be my friend?Getting women to like me was not a problem. Getting women to be attracted to me? That was.Could it be that maybe, just maybe, you're projecting what you want to be true onto me? That men, generally speaking, have more romantic and sexual success with women (all types of women, not just those with low self-esteem) if he is a bit of an asshole?@OzymandiasYou've never seen a woman go for a douchebag? Really? There's a reason the website is called "Hot Chicks With Douchebags" and not "Hot Chicks With Male Feminists".And look at the romantic archetypes I mentioned above: Rhett Butler, Mr. Darcy, Mr. Big. Women fawn over these characters, and they were created by female writers. Add Don Draper to the list while you're at it, along with the entire cast of Jersey Shore! The thing they all have in common is an aloof, cocky attitude.Why wouldn't a single man try to emulate them? It's only logical.
>RomanCandle-if your sole goal is to get laid, perhaps it is better to be a bastard. But if your goal is to have a happy long term relationship, this advice does a lot stop the possibility.
>RomanCandle– Douchebags tend to mate with other douchebags. Therefore, over-muscled shirtless orange men tend to mate with fake-breasted too-much-makeup orange women. My contention is not that all women hate douchebags; it's that most women hate douchebags.On the other hand: Michael Cera. No one goes to see his movies because of the excellence of his acting, y'know? It's because he's sweet and gentle and slightly nerdy, and some women like that….Jersey Shore? Really?
>I don't think it's "game" if you're just carrying on. I think "game" is when one uses techniques to hide less flattering traits of their personality.Your speculation about "subconscious" manipulation is pointless. I derive success from being honest about myself. I also derive it from understanding the thing that seems to be lost on most MRAs: at the very core, all humans – women, men, other – all want the same things, they have the same hopes, desires, fears and anxieties. Speculation of course – but it's made me successful and relieved me of a lot of bitterness I once had.
>Cera is pretty hawt.
>Getting MRA's mixed up with PUA's doesn't do you or your argument a service, Johnny, though I will say that there is some crossover.It's not as if MRA's speculate on what drives male/female desire, I must have missed that pickup book by Glenn Sacks and the videotapes by Warren Farrell, so I don't know why you are grumping at them when you should be grumping at Roissy for exposing the fact that many women, esp. young women are very vacuous and shallow and understanding this can help one get "laid" if that is what one is after. Ooopsie. Did I just criticize females? Well, shut my mouth!In my 14 years on the 'net I've run into many "feminists" who refuse to apply the same standards to females that they do to males. It's rather grimly amusing."I derive success by being honest about myself". So, should I take that literally and assume you mean that every time you find a young lady's conversation boring or stupid you immediately tell her? Wouldn't want to have "tact" and "hide" anything now would we? You never observe the social niceties even when they make you grit your teeth?You truly are an admirable person! I wonder what you did when you suddenly became aroused when you were talking to a female friend and started imagining her with no clothes – did you immediately tell her this, or did you instead cover your discomfort, make some small excuse and end the conversation?See, I don't believe you for a second. Everyone advertises the better part of them in social settings – indeed, that's partly why "manners" were invented. There is absolutely nothing wrong with showing the most attractive (yet nonetheless true) aspects of your personality when you want to get to know someone. Only once a relationship has started, do they get to know you "warts and all" and guess what? That relationship ain't starting if you decide to treat your local club as if it's your bedroom and start nose-mining.What? You don't nose-mine in public? You disgusting manipulator,you. I'm sure there's been women who've had sex with you but haven't seen all your bad habits and warts. These women have been raped. Turn in your feminist badge immediately!That last paragraph was sarcasm. I trust you get my point.
>I have no idea who Mr. Big is, but I sure don't remember Mr. Darcy or Rhett Butler torturning small animals. What page was that?
>I suppose if men are fine being manipulative, self-absorbed assholes and treating women like dirt; and if there are women who want to sleep with manipulative assholes – they deserve each other. The rest of us, the sane people who recognize that members of the other gender are actual people, should be grateful that these people are sequestering themselves away from our dating pools. This is why I wish high school health classes taught relationship skills, not OMGHERPESBAD!!!
>Mr Big is a character of Sex and the City : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Big_%28Sex_and_the_City%29 And he doesn't torture small animals.ClarenceComments, do you understand that the only things you can get with PUAs technique is a one-night-stand with a drunken slut ? While all other guys have girlfriends. I know you must despise these guys and call them Betas.
>@Clarence, how is this " Everyone advertises the better part of them in social settings – indeed, that's partly why "manners" were invented. There is absolutely nothing wrong with showing the most attractive (yet nonetheless true) aspects of your personality when you want to get to know someone." in any way reasonably related to Roissy's cat torturing plans? If 'sociopathic asshole' is your best trait and you feel a need to emphasize it, please opt out of society and live in a hut somewhere away from the rest of us.
>Lady VIctoria Von Syrus:While it would be nice if that was to happen, it's rather impossible to do for liability reasons, if nothing else. I don't see how one could do a class like that without risking offending someone – and offending anyone is a big no-no in todays public schools. And of course there'd be the inevitable arguments over what to teach and what was true and false…no, it would just be a big mess. You already know what happens in terms of sexual health classes int he schools.And for much the same reasons, colleges would not and could not make "dating skills" a required course, though I suppose they could hire some faculty.
>DarkSideCat:Reading comprehension is a good thing to acquire. Since when did I ever state I sign off on everything Roissy says to do?
>avpd:You are silly. I don't have to confirm to your idea of what a PUA must be: I've already said I use game techniques that I consider "light-side" as part of my search for a long term relationship. Indeed, I just got over a relationship, so I'm not actively looking, but I haven't tried to get any cheap sex in about 3 weeks either. And that's all you need to know about me. I use game as a toolkit for my own purposes. And no, it's not true that you have to do "club" game and short term escalation and all that stuff, if you are not looking for a one night stand, though it's good to be able to if that is what you want.Also, there's no Law that says PUA's have to wear funny hats or dress outrageously, though as Dave shows above, having a banana on your head does help. ;)
>By the way, and I must warn people potential trigger warning: Weird Al Yankovic song below.Here's a socially savvy man at work:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_U377vst5o
>So you're saying that it's a bad idea to teach teenagers good communication skills and what realistic expectations are for a romantic relationship? Some schools already do add a relationship skills segment to their health ed, but it's usually bullshit. I would like to see a segment where we taught teenagers to be honest with themselves and their own desires, and then teach them how to communicate them to potential partners. But our society is too fucked up when it comes to public discussions of sex, it'll probably never happen.
>Lady Victoria, you are correct.Our society is fucked up in relation to sex. Our laws and social norms are all over the place (mixtures of rad-fem, neo-victorian, puritan, and even some "sex positive" stuff), plus we don't like to imagine teenagers thinking about or having sex, in part since we've redefined sexually developed and developing adolescents as children.Oh well.
>"Riddle me this: if I was such a phony nice guy before and women could see through my exterior to my dark and twisted soul, then why did they all think I was sweet and funny? Why did they all want to be my friend?"They were being polite.Riddle me this: if you were a genuinely nice guy, why did you take their friendship as some kind of insult?I have never met anyone who whines about what an unappreciated "nice guy" he is and is actually a nice guy. If you were nice, you wouldn't be whining. You wouldn't think that just being pleasant and friendly was some kind of extravagant special favor you were performing for women at great personal effort (gawd, it's so HARD spending time with those goblins with the holes between their legs!), and that it was appropriate to get angry if these women didn't fall all over your cock in gratitude.Look, it's not hard to get laid. Next time you're in line at the DMV, look around and consider: all these people have probably managed to have sex at some point. Even that shirtless mullet guy and the woman with no eyebrows. "I think it gets me laid" is a piss-poor excuse for acting like an ass.
>About Roman Candles and the like, I think what is really going on here is they started being themselves and were able to bed girls that genuinely were attracted to them. When they were pretending to be someone else (caring, sensitive, evolved) they did not bed the girls who would have been attracted to their real personalities, and were not convincing enough to bed girls attracted to their fake personalities, so they got nothing.Because of societal disapproval for not being nice, caring, sensitive, and evolved, they spin the "I'm just doing this to get laid" story. Personally I think that some people are sort of dicks, some people love people who are sort of dicks, and there's nothing wrong with any of that.Of course there is something very wrong with torturing a cat.
>Honesty does not mean keeping people apprised of your bodily functions at all times.It's being up front with people about your desires and what you want out of an interaction. I don't get involved with people who don't want the same thing out of the interaction as I do. There's no deception involved in meeting a woman and the two of you deciding you want to go back to your place and do whatever with no strings attached. In fact, you might be surprised at how many women are interested in this sort of thing if you canned the deception and false pretenses and tried asking them about it. There are a lot of cool, sex positive women out there who really don't care about these social mores.I'm no Don Juan or anything, but I'm pretty satisfied.
>I've never watched "Sex and the City," but the other two examples don't support the "women love assholes" theory.Rhett Butler is an asshole…but he's not the guy Scarlett O'Hara is in love with. She spends most of the story going to humiliating lengths to win the love of Ashley Wilkes, a sweet, kind, gentle man who just isn't into her. Eventually, after Ashley marries an equally sweet, kind woman and Scarlett fails in all her attempts to seduce him away, she accepts that Rhett is a better match for her because, well, she's an asshole too. P.S. It doesn't last.Darcy is standoffish and snarky, but he's not actually a bad guy. That's the entire point of the book: that he and Elizabeth get misleading first impressions of each other and have to suck it up and admit they were wrong. Hence the title. Once Darcy realizes that his Asperger-y attitude turns Elizabeth off even though they get along well otherwise, he spends the center of the novel apologizing for page after page, then goes to great effort to prove that he's a stand-up guy. He does not say, "Fuck it, if she's not going to sleep with me I'll just kick her cat. That'll make her respect me!"He also finds her conversation fascinating and laughs at her jokes. That's seriously in the book.Also, you're aware these are fictional characters, right?
>Johnny?Ever heard of the "apocalypse" opener?This is where you go right up to the woman or young lady and ask her flat-out if she'd like to go to your place or her place and have sex with you. It may be rude, it may be crude, but sometimes its as honest as you can get. It also gets one rejected between 90 and 99.99 (depending on your attractiveness level)percent of the time, and possibly slapped.Tell me, have you ever done such an opener? I'm assuming you've had such interests or thoughts whilst chatting to a new young lady if you are honest with yourself. And if you haven't done such an opener, why not? NSA sex means you don't have to get to know each other, right?No. For the vast majority of women, even sex positive ones, you have to get to know them a bit first. They have to feel comfortable with you. This is called the "comfort" phase in Mystery's parlance. But many women get hit on a lot. So before you can get to the point of getting to know them you have to ATTRACT them or they will brush you off. And part of attraction is advertising. Unless you are trying to tell me that you've used the apocalypse opener on many of your "hookups" you are lying if you say you relied entirely on "honesty" the whole way. You had to attract the young lady first. There's deceptive advertising, and there's truth in advertising. I advocate truth in advertising, but I know that when I initiate with a woman I must advertise!
>shaenon:I've only ever seen the movie "Gone With the Wind" because my mom loved it so much. So I'm not going to argue with you about the book. Indeed, I think I remember somewhere hearing that Darcy and his wife had a good marriage or something like that, even though Darcy is (in Roissy terms) a "beta" male.But Roissy did do a post on Rhett Butler in the movie and here it is:http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/great-scenes-of-game-in-the-movies/Now, I've seen all 3 Twilight movies, but only to humor my mom (rather sad, isn't it?). I've read about 1/3 of the first book. That is it. My brother has a long time female friend who has read all the books and loves to burn his ear about how the movies mangle something in the books. Plus, he has to watch the dang movies twice -once with mom and me, and once with Ms. Twilight. Poor guy. Anyway, feel free to tell me how the movie differs from the book. But I'd also like your thoughts on Roissy's analysis about this scene from the movie.Thanks.
>RomanCandle: Regarding the likes of Mr Darcy and Mr Big attracting women with their behaviour, I fear you are missing the point somewhat. An old school friend of mine shared these characters’ arrogant, aloof demeanour, as well as their dazzling and effortless success with the ladies. However, this may have had something to do with the fact that he also shared their exceptional good looks and awe-inspiring wealth. Arrogance was not this lad’s true selling point. Any more than a high calorie content is the true selling point of Ben and Jerry’s – or an outrageous fuel consumption rate is the true selling point of the Ferrari Scaglietti. Or that the ridiculous, wooden dialogue holds the key to Star Wars’ world-conquering success – and that any aspiring screenwriter simply needs to make his dialogue more ridiculous and wooden in order to become the next George Lucas.At the risk of battering you over the head with this point. Megan Fox, while I have no personal knowledge of the lady and may be doing her a disservice, gives every impression of being a vapid, unpleasant bitch. Yet, observing Megan’s effect on the male race, a woman with the appearance of Meg Griffin may infer ‘clearly, I am being too pleasant and bright to appeal to foolish, masochistic men. What I need to do in order to be worshipped by these idiots is to become more vapid, unpleasant and bitchy.’ If you still do not ‘get it’, you still do not ‘get it’. Clarence: Your devotion to your 'evil gifted one' lord and master is touching. It is almost as charming as the relationship between Smithers and Mr Burns, yet with more homoerotic tension. A word to the wise, however. Such cringingly sycophantic displays of prepubescent hero-worship are frightfully un-alpha. Whatever would your newly-acquired harem of girlfriends think? If your life has been changed by this gentleman’s advice – 60% of which is hugely obvious to anyone more socially astute than Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man, and 40% of which is hugely disturbing to anyone more emotionally developed than Jeffrey Dahmer – then so be it. I am glad it has helped you achieve a level of sexual savoir faire most normal men instinctively acquire by the time they are old enough to shave. As for your adoration of his sparkling and timeless prose, allow me to recommend Stephenie Meyer, Barbara Cartland and Cecelia Aherne. For you, my friend, there is a vast universe of gloriously-written literature out there, just waiting to be discovered. You may also admire the literary genius of Danielle Steel. As Confucius has said in his wisdom, ‘the only man sorrier than the man who actively seeks out the title of Dark Lord at the age of forty-five is the man who seeks to become this man’s bitch.‘
>"No Strings Attached" sex doesn't mean you don't get to know the person – it means that there are no expectations of dating or romance. It's just two people coming together, who have chemistry, enjoying some fun sex together and then being able to part again as friends when the relationship has run its course. Your NSA partner will still doubtlessly want to be treated with respect. Getting to know a woman, advertising your good qualities and making yourself attractive – these are all good things that will help get you laid. And if some guy is making a million bucks by telling guys to take a shower and say 'hi', then more power to that dude. You know what the problem with Nice Guys is? It's that they don't see women as people. And I don't mean that they dehumanize women. Instead, they see women as these mysterious, alien life forms that they can never hope to comprehend. They're stymied on what to talk to a woman about, because they cannot imagine what she would find interesting. It never crosses their mind that she is, in fact, a person and would probably take quite nicely to being asked what book she's currently reading or what kind of music she listens to. Or how her day is going. I had a friend who as a virgin until he was 24, and had to hammer it through his head that it's silly to be afraid of women (he was also later diagnosed with Asperger's, which makes me wonder if many Roissy adherents are Aspies. It would certainly explain why they like rules and formulas so much, and why they had such a terrible time relating to people before they adopted these codes. Come to think of it, it would probably also explain why they rate women on a numerical scale and why they freak the fuck out when people deviate from The Way Things Ought To Be).
>citizenlemonade:I know who you are, as you've seen me before. You hang out at LadyRaine's and, on your blog, with maria. Greetings, Escapist. I actually find some of the Sexy P, to be funny. Now, that being said:"If your life has been changed by this gentleman’s advice – 60% of which is hugely obvious to anyone more socially astute than Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man, and 40% of which is hugely disturbing to anyone more emotionally developed than Jeffrey Dahmer – then so be it. I am glad it has helped you achieve a level of sexual savoir faire most normal men instinctively acquire by the time they are old enough to shave. " Beautiful. Really funny, and partly true, esp. the 60/40 part. I'd say it's more like 70 percent useful advice, 30 percent disturbing stuff, but hey, that's quibbling.On the other hand, I don't want a harem, and I've never thought of myself as an "Alpha Male".And if you want to hate on me, you should hate on Erick Von Markovic, aka Mystery, for he has influenced me and a friend far more than Roissy.I'm one of his success stories, though I'm going to be the first to tell you I don't hook up with 9's or tens every night , nor do I want multiple girls at the same time, and I can live without a 3some. My previous girlfriend rocked my world as far as fulfilling my *I'm slightly kinky* pedestrian sexual fantasies. We are still friends. I'm happy. Why can't you be?Oh, and I've read some Danielle Steel. Not to my taste. I'm more an HP Lovecraft, Issac Asimov type of dude.
>Lady Von Syrus (Hey, I'm trying multiple greetings to get it right):I actually pretty much agree with everything you said in your most recent post. Remember there's two types of "niceguys" – the manipulative jerks that feminists always put the trademark symbol near, and the shy and socially awkward who truly believe that being nice and sweet and non-threatening attracts females, and believe in treating everyone with kindness. The second type just never get the social cues, and they never understand the power of confidence. I know. I used to be one.
>Clarence:You are coming dangerously close to persuading me that some of Roissy's followers are normal, humorous, likeable and pleasant. Perhaps you are not all like greatbooksformentalcases after all. Although I am not the Escapist Pterodactyl. Just to clarify. I post at LR as Nice Lurker.
>And if some guy is making his career off teaching Aspie men (or just socially awkward men) how to approach women and talk to women, then he's actually probably providing a valuable service. I think one of the good messages is that it's okay to get shot down by one woman, because you can try again with someone else. But then it's wrapped up in a bunch of bullshit (like Roissy's list which is the inspiration for this post) that paints dating and romance as an adversarial game. The man is convincing the women to give up something (sex), and achieves some kind of victory over her when he does. And then to prove his superiority, he has to treat her like dirt. You can still see how their insecurity about women permeates everything. Women want men who are confident, and that's what a lot of timid Nice Guys don't seem to get. They watch a confident man getting dates, and interpret him as being an asshole. It's not that at all.
>At risk of pimping my blog, I would like to point out a post I did relevant to the issue of "whether women like nice guys": http://ozymandias3.blogspot.com/2011/02/its-always-more-complicated-and-playing.html
>Dammit, why didn't the link work?
>Lady Von Syrus:I wish I could believe that, but I don't. You might wish to look into studies involving "dark triad" traits. It's not just confidence (and honestly, if you don't have confidence you have to fake it till you make it) that explains why so many bikers and never do wells get plenty of girlfriends. I live in a mixed income and race area of Baltimore city and I've been here 20 years, and the amount of women that some of the repeatedly jailed members of this community get is beyond belief. It might have to do with them being tough (you know the old "protector" rule)due to a life of constant violence and since these men get women early and quite often they tend to have tremendous sexual confidence that someone like me (who didn't go "all the way" till 26) couldn't naturally match. Also, often to lose your girl around here, you have just to lose your status, which is often done by losing a fight. So there's that female "hypergamy" in action – They are attracted to the excitement, the drugs, the violence, and the status games. So yeah, sometimes the asshole does get the girl, and that's partly on a natural instinct for most young ladies (loving protection, confidence, and style) and the lack of a good culture with which to show them what types of manifestations of those things are actually good for them.
>@ Ozzy: I don't think links work at all in the comments here. But I did copy/paste, and your graphics amuse me. @ Clarence: It's as unfair to say that because some women in Baltimore go for bikers and violent gang members, this must be what all women want as it is to say that because some men are violent gang members, all men must have an atavistic desire to thug other men. I have never dated a gang member or a man who spent even a day in jail, and neither have any of my straight female friends. Any guy who treated me the way Roissy says he ought to treat me would not only *not* get laid by me, I wouldn't even want to be friends with the douchebag. Women also tend to date men who remind them of their fathers, so if a woman's father was absent, unavailable or violent, that's the sort of man she will pursue as an adult.