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Note: This post is about a blog post on the Men-Factor blog that has already inspired some discussions in the comments here.
One of the most disturbing pieces of writing I’ve seen in the manosphere in recent days was actually written by someone who regularly posts comments here — an engineer in Reno who calls himself Scarecrow, and who runs a blog called Men-Factor. (You may have noticed it in my “Enemies List” in the sidebar.) His blog posts are typically puerile “humor” pieces — deliberately crude, and festooned with “wacky” pictures — directed at feminists and the like: here’s one example, a puzzling bit of japery entitled “Woman Purposely does Crossword Wrong; Hailed as Big Step for Women’s Rights!”
But earlier this week, he posted something that left me simply appalled, a weird and angry attack on what he called in the post’s title a “Dirty Skanky Whore with no Brains Who ‘Puts Out’ for Physically Abusive Men” — and who “is Missing and Probably Dead.” Unlike the fictional crossword-puzzle bungler, the women in this post is a real person, a Las Vegas dancer named Deborah Flores-Narvaez, who in fact has been missing since December 12 and who may well have been murdered.
This post comes complete with wacky pictures and all, but it’s essentially a rant celebrating the probable murder of Flores-Narvaez and the murder of “skanks” generally. Why? Because Flores-Narvaez was hot, was dating a man who may well have abused her, and because
she reminds me of those women who would brutally reject men … when being approached. You know – the woman who makes a total scene and makes heads turn – but not at me of course.
Scarecrow puts these words in the mouth of a fictional commenter, but it is clear this is his feeling towards her as well.
Then, rehashing the tired mansophere myth that women only like dating thugs, he writes:
Most American woman are now happy that another psychotic man has once again joined the singles scene and could make them a potential mate and possibly as an extra bonus – a murderer too!
He ends the piece with the phrase “live and let SKANKS die” in big red letters, a twisted reference to the Paul McCartney song with a similar title.
There is of course no possible justification for any of this, but Scarecrow, having been told by some of his friends he’d shown the post to that he’d gone too far, tries to offer one anyway:
I was raised to have respect for all life. … Perhaps I am turning into a sour old fart – but – I have seen crap like this way too often in my life – and it has actually bled over into my life on a few occasions …
I have met too many women like this – and – yes – been treated with hostility by them (or seen them treat other men like me with hostility) when no hostility was called for. Later of course – I hear stories about them getting beaten or killed by some psychotic dick-weed.
Do I still care?
NOPE.
 |
| From Men-Factor, Scarecrow’s blog. |
For the rest of this part of his rant, see the graphic on the right here, taken from his post.
Scarecrow then links to three blog posts relating events from his life that he says justify his attitude towards Flores-Narvaez and other so-called “skanks.”
The first link recounts what he rightly calls a “whale of a tale.” In brief: One late night about a decade ago, Scarecrow was waiting in line at a grocery store when he noticed that the “incredibly beautiful … busty brunette” in front of him in the line was buying the same odd assortment of items that he was. He made a remark to her about this, and, instead of laughing, as he had hoped, she snapped, and yelled at him. Which is, yes, one of the more likely outcomes you’ll get when you try chatting up a young woman who likely gets hit on all the time when she is shopping by herself late at night.
All of which would be an unremarkable tale had it not been for what happened next: the woman was murdered, her head bashed in with a cinder block, later that night. The police, having heard from a witness who happened to know Scarecrow that he had been “arguing” with her in the grocery store shortly before she was killed, questioned Scarecrow about the incident. Naturally, this freaked him the fuck out, as it would anyone who found themselves facing questioning from cops in a murder case. Having heard his story, they assured him he wasn’t the real suspect — her boyfriend was — and moved on.
Remarkably, instead of feeling sympathy for the murdered woman, Scarecrow instead blamed her, and all women like her, for making his life more difficult:
Why is it that a guy like me gets yelled and barked at by an incredibly beautiful woman like this – and a guy that ends up bashing her face in with a cinder block gets laid – lord only knows how many times – or what kind of fun and exciting sex acts she performed on him? …
This incident was a crucial turning point in my life. Not only was I not getting laid by these “mega-hottie” women, but they would go to extremes to be rude to me. And now, their f*cked up lives were seeping over into my own life. This pissed me off to no end. …
Clearly, something is wrong with some modern western females. SERIOUSLY WRONG!
That’s the conclusion he draws from all this?
The other stories Scarecrow cites as reasons for his rage against “skanks” are equally puzzling. One involves a male co-worker who sort-of-accused him of murdering a young woman named Brianna Denison. Though the “accuser” here was male (as was, it turns out, the actual murderer), Scarecrow directs much of the anger in his post at, again, the murdered woman, whom he describes as a “f*cked up b*tch, who was too good to talk to any ‘nice-guys.'” He also manages to work in a shot at the “heavy-set women” he saw in the TV coverage of a candle-light vigil for Denison:
Funny – since when do fat women care if a tiny woman drops off the face of the planet?
Oh wait – that’s right – silly me. There’s an awful lot of male-hatred that can be spread at such a thing, and of course – lots of money money money to be made. You can show everybody how much you cared about Brianna by donating money to various charities (CHA-CHING!), and remind everybody how ALL men are just beasts that want to rape and kill young women. HIP HIP HOORAY!
The other story involves — long story short — two Nazi skinheads he’d never even met who tried to blame him for drugs and weapons violations they’d committed. Seeing the skinheads for the first time at a pre-trial hearing, he directs his ire not at them but at their girlfriends:
The thing that pissed me off:
They [the skinheads] had their girlfriends with them: Two super-mega-hot women, a brunette and a blond. Both were busty, thin, and extraordinarily pretty in the face. … I wondered: Why do … losers get totally hot women, and men who are better off and “square” do not get the time of day from such women?
Once again: men commit a crime, and Scarecrow directs his anger at women, random women he doesn’t know — for being, in his mind, the type of women who would probably turn him down.
To restate an obvious point I’ve made in other posts: no one (male or female) has the right to sex and/or a relationship with the hottie of their choice, and anyone who walks around hating not only those women who’ve rejected them, but also all the other women who remind him of these women, is going to have that hate curdle inside of him. Everyone gets rejected. Some more than others, but that’s life. Life’s unfair. Yeah, some women go for assholes over “nice guys.” That’s their business, not yours.
But let’s pause for a moment on the issue of the “nice guy” — as in, for example, the “nice guys” who Scarecrow imagines were being cruelly rejected by the murdered Brianna Denison. How “nice,” exactly, is a guy who seethes with hatred of women because a relative handful of said women have responded negatively to his advances? If you blame and resent murdered women for inconveniencing your life, and celebrate the death of “skanks,” here’s the thing, and I shouldn’t really need to say this: you are not actually “nice.” You’re a creepy, angry, misogynistic asshole. And most women can sense that a mile away.
NOTE: I have not decided what I should ultimately do about the issue of Scarecrow posting comments here. Anyone — male or female, MRA or feminist — who posts comments celebrating the death of innocent people will have these comments deleted and will likely be quickly banned. But Scarecrow has not posted any comments like that here, and I am inclined, at least for now, to allow him to continue to comment here and, in particular, to respond to this post.
>The truth is; if it was a male who went missing, Scarecrow and most people who are aware of this case would most probably not hear about Joe Blow who disappeared off the face of the planet.Just because she's a woman with good looks, it gets loads of attention. So much for the so called under privileged gender *cough*Are you familiar with the phrase "Missing white woman syndrome", David?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
>Don't apologize for keeping him around. I blogged about this when I saw Christine's comment yesterday, my first mra blog post, inspired by this blog. I'll be back later…to interject in the comments, there was so much to say about this guy's stupid post and sociopath reasoning, that I was overwhelmed. The bottom line is, he says his anger is based on the fact that he's a "nice guy"? Er, whut? Fail.
>Nick I found out about this from that dude's blog. But seriously how is that the point of this? Also do you have any links to stats of the missing and murdered men versus women in Nevada? Can you back up any implied claims here? It's very important that we have violence against sex workers on our national consciousness. It teaches us loads of lessons if thought about on any deep level, mainly how objectifying that type of work is, not to excuse male sociopath violence, but these women are susceptible to sociopath crime.
>The truth is; if it was a male who went missing, Scarecrow and most people who are aware of this case would most probably not hear about Joe Blow who disappeared off the face of the planet.This doesn't really justify celebrating a pretty white woman's death. Blame the media for their morbid, sensational fascination with these kinds of cases, sure–I would agree with you. But don't blame the women themselves, especially in the case of Ms. Denison, who, as it turned out, was murdered by someone NOT her boyfriend, putting something of a chink in Mr. Scarecrow's worldview, it seems.
>It seems clear to me that if women are avoiding him, this is evidence against his theory that women seek abusive men. On the contrary, the hate and violence in his post is a big red flag, and I imagine women avoid him out of a desire for self-preservation.
>Just because she's a woman with good looks, it gets loads of attention. So much for the so called under privileged gender *cough*So under-privileged, in fact, that she's DEAD. Remember? I'm fairly certain that all of the money donated by whomever isn't doing her any good.
>….so the thought that maybe she snapped at him because her boyfriend was a psycho and her life might not have been in a good place and she was just…wound fucking tight and he had nothing to do with her reaction or her death -never occurred to him?-Right. Let me let you all in on a little secret boys. Those of you who find the fact that a woman died and you had to deal with it in any way shape or form resentful, or rant worthy, or make up posts like this when women are missing..or any of the other creepy and flat out disgusting things that you say..Those are the reason women don't want you.Beyond that fact? No one is required to want you back. No one is required to take your proposal graciously, no one is required to be kind to you. You are not a special snowflake.There have been times, reading this blog that I am struck by the realization that these men…all these angry and pissy and stuck up asshole men..are furious at women, at -anyone- treating them like they treat others.Beautiful women turn them down. What about overweight? how about homely? I hazard a guess that you guys would be derisive if a fat woman hit on you. Bitches and Nags too much…but there are blogs..groups, forums..pages and -pages- bitching and ranting and gossiping about women and what they need to change.I seriously suspect, that if any of these men sat down and thought 'why does this -seriously- bother me' they would find at the root of it, an expectation of privilege unfulfilled.Too fucking bad.Just because you're a man white or not doesn't mean you are entitled to anything. Just like you are so quick to point out in others, you hold the same expectations and bad traits.You do not get a free pass. Grow up.
>But April! the fact that she picked someone who would kill her over the creepy guy who writes scathing woman hating posts on the internet about those skanky whores who need to die…means she's privileged!wait….huh?
>I used to walk in the woods a lot where Chandra Levy was eventually found. I probably passed within just a few dozen yards of her body at one point. I imagine if I had dropped a receipt or something, the police likely would have questioned me. This would have been awful, and potentially damaging to me. Worse still would have been the fact that, completely by coincidence, my wife was in preschool with her years ago, and completely by coincidence, I lived about two blocks from her gym, one of the last places she was seen alive. If police had found this stuff out, and concluded I was possibly involved, it would have been horrible, and wrong, and potentially could have led to a great injustice against me.But for me to have any animus toward Chandra Levy as a result of any of that would have been really, really bizarre. Wouldn't it?
>….so two wrongs make a right? Only in Math Eoghan.You are only responsible for yourself. Just like each of us. We are the only people we have to answer to ultimately.I personally like having ethics and principles and not crowing at the misfortune and degradation of others. Perhaps it is your enjoyment.
>Eoghan (who keeps posting here): What about "you have been banned on this blog" do you not get? I even gave you yet another chance the other day and you abused it. Every comment you post here will be deleted as soon as I see it. Everyone else: Please ignore Eoghan.
>Eoghan, I don't think you're so bad as MRAs go, but seriously, you're making yourself look bad by continuing to post here. I personally wouldn't have banned you, but this is David's blog, not ours. If some MRA place banned me, I wouldn't keep hanging around like some sort of stalker. Just leave, man. I mean, it's not like David's gonna listen to you, right? Spend your time someplace else where it'll be more productive, seriously. There are better things you could be doing.
>For those who haven't been posting here for awhile: Eoghan was banned here for repeatedly lying/misrepresenting what others had said, for endlessly posting the same things over and over (spamming), for derailing discussions with off-topic stuff, and generally disrupting discussions. Because I really don't like banning comments or people, I let him get away with this stuff for a long time. Before he was banned here he made literally hundreds of comments, more than any other commenter here in fact, even more than pretty prolific commenters like Yohan. Those comments still remain, if you want to go back and look at them in virtually any topic in the first couple of months of this blog. In other words, he's had plenty of opportunities to express himself on this blog.After seeing too many topics derailed by his antics, and after warning him several times that unless he shaped up he would be banned altogether, I banned him. Since Blogger doesn't allow blog owners to actually ban individual commenters, I simply delete his posts as I see them. Yet he continues to post here. I actually gave him another chance a little while ago, but he abused it, posting a really nasty attack, and so he is banned again. Please do not respond to his comments.
>nicko81m, you realize that only a tiny percentage of women are young, beautiful, rich, and white enough for the media to salaciously report on (such a privilege) when they disappear, right?It seems like MRAs are absolutely obsessed with hot women and their supposed cruelty towards ordinary men. Do regular, everyday women (i.e. most women) even exist to these guys? Or do they just not count, since they're deemed insufficiently fuckable?
>I will never understand the complete lack of understanding of basic human nature that leads some guys to think women being short with them as a response to being hit on is some assholish, entitled, hateful behavior. If you find a woman attractive enough to hit on her while she's just going about her business at a laundromat or a grocery store or any of the places where *the business of life* gets done, imagine how often she is approached and how often this encroaches on her personal business, her personal time, her internal thoughts, her just going about her day. If you can't imagine what that feels like, imagine if every time you stopped for gas or popped into the grocery store or took your dirty underwear to the laundromat somebody nosily intruded on your life to demand things of you. The rest of this guy's post is just heinous and sickening. Nick, I hope you aren't attributing "missing white woman syndrome" to feminism because that would be the nuttiest thing I've read yet on this blog. That is the *opposite* of what feminists want to see in this world.
>OK, look, no righteous minded MRA will ever say that woman deserved to die at the hands of anybody. Some might state (and rightly so) that she may have had some hand in her undoing and that there may have been things she said (in the heat of the moment) that likely should have been phoned in but she did not deserve to die.
>People who are murdered generally have irritating and/or provocative personalities. This does not mean they deserve to die, but it is a message to those with personality traits that might get them killed (by anyone including the PO lice)
>People who are murdered generally have irritating and/or provocative personalities.[citation needed]
>One thing I hope this forum/community can accomplish is prizing apart the MRA/PUA guys who really do have fundamental unresolved anger toward women for their own reasons, and other guys who see a certain very simplistic approach to male/female relationships as having the power to save them from a world of awkwardness that has started to wear them down and make them think they will never have a fulfilling sex life.It would be fun to see a feminist man (PUAmangina.blogspot.com, anyone?) work out his own PUA system based on compassion and respect for women as people. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with lots of different women. Sounds like a bit of a timesuck to me, honestly, but if that's your thing you should go for it! Women are great. Lots of them are really sexy. The problem is, if your approach assumes that women are silly and venal and easily manipulated, you will wind up with a lot of silly, venal, easy manipulated women. They exist! Human beings have their problems. But if you assume women are self-possessed and compassionate and interesting, those women are out there too. When you find one, you'll want to make your life intertwine with hers. It's a great journey! But you have to choose to begin that journey. No dream girl is going to suddenly appear and fulfill your fantasies. That's your job.
>Any person who has been punched in the face for saying the wrong thing (me) knows that you can be harmed at any moment for saying or doing the wrong thing at the wrong time.
>@iodineshuffle I apologize as I do not have the reference. I was told this by my sociology professor at the University of Western Ontario. I do not remember his name at this time but he told the class that it was his research and that he conducted it on men who were convicted of spousal homicide. He also told us that his findings were very controversial because they were perceived to find the victim at fault.Believe it or not, but I was actually there.
>@Raul,I got me one of those "self-possessed and compassionate and interesting" women. She's a PhD and a professor at a major Canadian University.So what say you now?? Am I wrong for being pro men's rights? Is my wife wrong for supporting me in these reflections on "feminism"?This woman did not deserve to die if she did (she may just be off enjoying a tryst!). I do not condone domestic violence of any sort!
>One study you vaguely remember hearing about from one professor on one type of murderer? I'm sorry, Witman, but that is pretty poor evidence. However, this is getting off-track from the posting, so believe what you like.
>http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawcom.gov.uk%2Fdocs%2Fcp173.pdf&ei=xQcgTa6XGsWAlAe78v3dDA&usg=AFQjCNFeAtAyDlRHVf-upbIYwrMwl5HxHwAssociate Professor Dale E Ives, University of Western Ontario, Canada ….. there had to have been provocative conduct by the deceasedI think this is the study. I cannot be 100% sure as it has been many years since my University tour.One of his studies(as I remember) involve a man many years married whose wife was knowingly unfaithful. He stayed in the marriage for some time due to his devotion to his daughter. One day he came home, hugged/kissed his daughter to be met with his vehement wife who hissed "Why do you even bother, she's not your daughter anyway" (or something like that). The next thing he remembered was being in a police car and his wife was dead at his hand.I do not agree that she should have died at his hand, but the paternity of his daughter (whom he lived for) should have been phoned in … really! You can be dead and right or you can be alive and right … which do you think you should be?
>And this is nowhere off topic. Feminism nor "male privilege" does not excuse you from the consequences of your ill conduct. You may be right but you may also be dead!I will state again that I do not condone domestic violence in any form. I also do not provoke brutes (for my own safety).
>@witman:It's funny, you actually remind me of a friend of mine who's married to a Canadian PhD. He's a great guy, but I imagine he wouldn't come off as such in a forum like this one.Honestly, no, you're not wrong to hold the beliefs you hold. I assume you're a guy who's bitter than women tend to find him creepy. Far be it from me to tell you how to deal with that. I personally have been punched in the face a few times. Usually it was just a bully. It wasn't my fault. Probably wasn't your fault either. No one deserves to be punched in the face for "saying something wrong." But women didn't punch you in the face en masse. One person punched you in the face. Dick move! But not a blanket indictment of femininity.
>I'll check if my previous post made it when I return in the morning.
>"People who are murdered generally have irritating and/or provocative personalities."This may be the weirdest thing I've ever read on the internet.
>ScareCrow's comment on his blog about Deborah Flores-Narvaez is badly worded.More than 2000+ people are missing in USA alone and she is not more or less important than all these other missing people.What is so special about her disappearance?She was a stripper and had a relationship with several violent boyfriends. Her decision, her risk to adore such a life-style.http://www.nowpublic.com/world/body-found-lake-mead-could-be-deborah-flores-narvaez-2741220.htmlIn April, Flores-Narvaez won a $250,000 civil judgment against McGee, whom she accused of beating her, according to court records.Nobody deserves to become a victim of a crime, but I am not surprised she is obviously in trouble again, kidnapped, even maybe murdered.M said… I will never understand the complete lack of understanding of basic human nature that leads some guys to think women being short with them as a response to being hit on is some assholish, entitled, hateful behavior. Many ordinary men joining the MRAs are angry. Out of good reason.The problem is about the life-style of many Western women – he is rich and old, say yes, he is just an ordinary young man with a basic income, say no.He is a gangster and offers a violent exciting way of life, say yes – he is just an average man without any criminal record doing a regular job, so he is boring, say no.And as next step, we have to listen to all these whiny feminist drivel complaining how bad and violent ALL men are. And what losers they are being single or looking for a foreign wife.Feminists fail totally to instruct women to choose their men more carefully instead of blaming ALL men, when something is going wrong.MRAs do not encourage women to socialize with violent thugs or to be active in the sex-business.But that's feminism – it's the fault of the man, and never the fault of the woman.
>Raul, You live a very sheltered existence if you've never been punched in the face. Women do not find me creepy. In fact, my marriageability due to my career, wife and her great looks/career makes me less creepy than your average individual, self proclaimed feminist man. Believe it or not, I'm actually short and overweight as well.You guys just go ahead and cater to your feminist overlords while the rest of us bang the eligible women folk.
>Sorry M,I did post a link to the study but it seems to have been caught by the spam filter. I will repost in the morning if it doesn't show.Imagine what irritating and/or provocative means. Now imagine a gun at your head and genuflect what those words mean again.
>Sorry, spell check. Genuflect should read reflect.
>So are the men who are the majority of violent crime victims all irritating and provocative? That hardly seems fair to the victims of crime.
>@witman:For someone who's obviously intelligent, it's strange to see you have trouble comprehending plain english when it doesn't fit your expectations.I'm not sure how my previous comment led you to your response. It's essentially impossible to proceed with the discussion at this point.
>Raul Groom said… ….. I personally have been punched in the face a few times. Usually it was just a bully. It wasn't my fault. …..No one deserves to be punched in the face for "saying something wrong." And what did you do AFTER these women were punching you in your face? And you said, this happened a few times?Did you hit back? Or did you call the police? Did you file a lawsuit against her?Or did you find it so funny, that you said, that's fine what she did to me?
>Raul Groom said… …I hope this forum/community can accomplish is prizing apart the MRA/PUA guys who really do have fundamental unresolved anger toward women … You are wrong 2 times with this short comment:1 -Without comments from MRAs this ridiculous blog of David would be empty and forgotten. Data-garbage of the internet…2 -We MRAs offer solutions for angry men who were badly treated by women in the past.We do not belittle such men and we do not make fun out of them with arrogant replies as you and other feminists do. We listen to them. We listen to the other side of the story.Yes, we offer alternate solutions to these cheated men and ask them to reconsider their actions BEFORE they are getting wild and out of control.What's wrong with that? fundamental unresolved anger toward women…You should ask WHY ordinary men do have fundamental unresolved anger toward CERTAIN women.What's the reason for that 'anger'?Do you really think, this 'anger' is coming out of 'nothing'?
>"fundamental unresolved anger toward women."Funny that is said. To think that the feminist movement constantly shows anger and resentment towards men 24/7 365 days a year, are feminists male or female too dumb to actually acknowledge this?This unresolved anger against men goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how we are supposedly privileged, we are rapists, we are abusers etc etc etc. This is 60 odd years and still going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It's so ironic how a feminist says that a MRA has unresolved anger towards women when the feminist movement is all about having unresolved anger issues towards the opposite gender. There is not one day that it lays to rest.I am sick of the blatant shameless hypocrisy that comes from feminists. They need to stop thinking they are the gender police.
> nicko81m said… "fundamental unresolved anger toward women."….they are the gender police. I always consider USA as the sex-prison for all honest ordinary men. Nowhere else worldwide, feminism is so hateful against all men, regardless the age even against small boys or old men.Most sex-crimes, like pissing behind a tree, are no sex-crimes anywhere else.The problem is feminism which is following you even around the world. If you move away, you are a loser, your foreign wife is a doormat, your children are halfbreeds looking like whores (because of the white father splitting the condom) and finally, as a feminist told me, you are only good when you are dead.And now? Feminists and their manginas are astonished, why I consider myself as an MRA.How come these feminists have a right to criticize my way of life? Who are these women teaching me a lesson?In their narrow typical American feminist mindset, men should pay for everything because women are poor, father's rights do not exist neither for the unborn, nor for the newborn nor for children who are teenagers, because this would mean children are paternal property.Sex is free to sell, but buying sex makes you a criminal in Sweden, sleeping with a 84 old rich guy is ok, but a poor man 24 with a girl 17 is a pedophile or rapist…and finally I have all these privileges and nobody can tell me what these privileges should be except long working hours, late retirement and limited health care.So what? I am the bad guy, because I reject feminism and such women who never did anything nice or good to me, even not when I was still a child.I am the misogynist, fundamental unreselved anger toward women….?This makes me laughing, what a BS is that? I am married since 34 years, never divorced, 2 daughters grown up university-educated, and still I take care for a Filipina fostergirl and also for her almost blind sister… (no feminist will help these really poor women and girls in the 3rd world out of their own wallet btw.)I was sharing with my Asian mother-in-law over 20 years the same rooms until she died never had any problems with her and this is a profil of a women-hater?I think, feminists, especially male feminists, must be very sad people, and their only pleasure is to envy and to disturb other men with their families.
>Yohan said:"How come these feminists have a right to criticize my way of life?"Because the gender police believe they have the right to tell men how to live and not to mention, to tell men how their sexuality should be. With the objectifying card, feminism attempts to regiment male sexuality while on the other hand it's oppression and against female liberation to tell women how they should operate their sexuality. It's also oppression and patriarchy to tell women who and what men they should be with but its all fine for feminists to tell men they are wrong for choosing Asian women because it's ummm the choice the men made.They are no better than the cave men they complain about as they attempt to make the rules of how men should function in relationships and how they should view their sexuality.
>'People who are murdered generally have irritating and/or provocative personalities.'I'm flabbergasted. I don't even know where to begin with this unpleasant piece of victim-blaming.
>'ScareCrow's comment on his blog about Deborah Flores-Narvaez is badly worded.'No it's not Yohan. It is offensive in the extreme and crosses a line of common decency. It speaks volumes about the man who Scarecrow is. He is, in short, a vicious toad. A poisonous man spewing toxic filth. He is not a person with whom I would ever want to have commerce. I am unsurprised if women give him the bum's rush. This is not the kind of behaviour that should be tolerated in polite society.
>'its all fine for feminists to tell men they are wrong for choosing Asian women because it's ummm the choice the men made.I think you'll find that feminists have no problem with men choosing Asian partners. However, they will call out those men who choose Asian partners because they want a willing and servile helpmeet.
>'Nobody deserves to become a victim of a crime, but I am not surprised she is obviously in trouble again, kidnapped, even maybe murdered.'Yohan, you send mixed messages. You say that no one deserves to be a victim yet you build a case that she deserved it. You are 'not surprised' she is in trouble, you rattle on disapprovingly about 'the life-style of many western women', and it seems to you that violence is the fault of women making poor choices. It all adds up to a mean-spirited piece of victim-blaming. Its one thing to say that a woman might be in part responsible for her predicament. But the tone of your post seems to try and deflect responsibility away from all but a handful of men. One critique of the problem of violence against women is that victim-blaming and 'she deserved it' is part of the problem. It sets up an environment where convictions are hard to secure, weakening the deterrent effect on would-be perpetrators. It discourages complaints by forcing victims into an unpleasantly adversarial situation. In other words, victim-blaming enables the violent.Both men and women contribute to victim-blaming. However, neither should be excused. By victim-blaming, and by lightly excusing vicious victim-blamers like Scarecrow, you are contributing to the problem.
>'How come these feminists have a right to criticize my way of life?'How come you have a right to criticize Western women for their way of life?Or to put it another way: surely this is not a one-way street where only you have the privilege to thumb your nose at the behaviour of others?
>percyprune: No it's not Yohan. It is offensive in the extreme and crosses a line of common decency. This is why I said, ScareCrow's comment is badly worded. He is missing clearly the point where he should mention that NOBODY deserves to become the victim of a crime.However the victim decided herself to choose a questionable risky life-style related to sex-business and accepted violent boyfriends. Highly possible, she was close to drugs, alcohol and criminals.This was HER decision, she is an adult, 31 year old, and nobody else can be made responsible for her bad choice of her risky life-style – except herself.She was choosing the wrong friends and job and I am not surprised at all, that she is now in serious troubles, even might be dead.Now, after she disappeared (we do not know what really happened yet) and might be a victim of a crime, feminists expect obviously ALL ordinary men to feel guilty, to feel 'especially' sorry for her, because it's all the fault of violent men around her.Many MRAs, who had formerly good intention with women next to them were rejected often in a very rude way as not being good or rich enough. Even convicted thugs in jail are receiving tons of love-letters, while ordinary men are merely the target of scorn for many highly materialistic orientated Western women misguided by feminist ideals.These men are truly bitter about such a feminist attitude.Feminists should – instead blaming ALL ordinary men as rapists or losers – strongly discourage women to socialize with violent thugs.Women have to learn to choose their male partner more carefully by using better criteria than 'rich and old' or 'not boring'.
>Yohan, you send mixed messages. …..it seems to you that violence is the fault of women making poor choices. It all adds up to a mean-spirited piece of victim-blaming. Yes, of course, a person who makes a bad choice is responsible for his/her bad choice.I am talking here clearly about PREVENTION of crimes.About victim-blaming, insurance companies are very good with that.If you get out of your car in a busy street, door open, key inside and you come back after some hours and your car is stolen, insurance companies will give you a hard time and might refuse to pay. Such behavior is called negligence.Same with your house, if you go out for holidays and don't lock the door and come back after a few weeks, how can you be surprised your furniture is gone?Of course, nobody has the right to steal your car or to take your furniture away, but such arguments will not be helpful for you and bring you to nowhere.Same is with this woman, I am not surprised at all, that something happened to her. She decided by herself to enter the sex-business and to live with several violent men. This was her decision.How can you say now, this is not a bad choice?What you are trying here to do is simple blaming men for all and everything. The woman is not responsible, whatever she is doing. Is a woman an adult or a child? If you are a woman (or a man, gender does not matter) and you decide to make a living out of sex and share your room with violent thugs, how can you be surprised, if you become a thug yourself – or a victim of those thugs living with you?
>Percyprune: How come you have a right to criticize Western women for their way of life?Or to put it another way: surely this is not a one-way street where only you have the privilege to thumb your nose at the behaviour of others? Is this a joke or a serious question?Of course, it's a one-way street, as MONEY is always moving from the man to the woman, regardless the circumstances.It's the feminist, who is ripping off the honest man financially, is fabricating false accusations for a lucrative divorce, is demanding money for HER children despite paternity fraud etc. and not vice versa.It's the feminist who is blaming ALL straight men for any form of violence or rape.What can I really do, if a woman decides herself to offer her body for money and to live with thugs? She will just tell me to shut up and to piss off, punch me or spit in my face and laugh, or report me to police for sexual harassment.You want to keep me, an ordinary straight man ridiculed by feminists and manginas, responsible for women and their bad choices? Are you crazy?
>'This is why I said, ScareCrow's comment is badly worded.No Yohan. 'Badly worded' suggests an unfortunate turn of phrase, a mild faux pas. That was not what we read here, which was a hateful, venomous screed aimed at this woman and by extension others like her.'However the victim decided herself to choose a questionable risky life-style related to sex-business and accepted violent boyfriends. Highly possible, she was close to drugs, alcohol and criminals.'You seem to be very good at making this risk-assessment for her. However, I somehow doubt that is how she assessed the risk. On the whole, women tend not to choose boyfriends who represent a threat to them. Indeed most folks avoid uncontrollably threatening situations if they have a choice. (Notice the qualifying word 'uncontrollably'.) A boyfriend might become a threat later in a relationship, but I doubt this figures into the initial decision.'She was choosing the wrong friends and job and I am not surprised at all, that she is now in serious troubles, even might be dead.'Again, you seem to be good at judging others' choices, morals and lifestyles though I doubt those people would view those choices the same as you. I would be surprised if it turned out that Flores-Narvaez thought she was putting herself in harm's way.So your judgement does come out as an attempt to turn the blame on a victim who may well have been making rational and measured assessments of risk.'Many MRAs, who had formerly good intention with women next to them were rejected often in a very rude way as not being good or rich enough.''Even convicted thugs in jail are receiving tons of love-letters, while ordinary men are merely the target of scorn for many highly materialistic orientated Western women misguided by feminist ideals.'And here you reveal yourself and we get to the heart of the matter, Yours is a complaint similar to that of many MRAs: that hot women didn't put out for them, so any who ran into trouble had it coming to them. Cry me a river, Yohan. It is this sort of unsympathetic attitude that I find so contemptuous and ugly. Your cup of bitterness overfloweth and will find no words of comfort from me.
>M,My Karate Sensei taught me a very valuable lesson pertaining to muggings. "If a man threatens you violently and demands your wallet what is the best thing to do? Give him your wallet!" Anything less than full compliance is provocative.I was mugged in Cuba and I understand that I was very provocative wearing a gold necklace in a country with so many poor people. Hell, I can't even find it in my heart to be angry with the mugger. I'm still pretty angry with myself for being in that situation.I will say this again "People who are murdered tend to have irritating and/or provocative personalities." and nobody deserves to be murdered. Violence rarely happens in a vacuum for no reason at all.
>Yohan,I finally figure out what our male privilege is.We get the privilege of taking full and complete responsibility for our life choices. We do not get to hold anyone responsible for their choices. You cannot even suggest that a poor decision could get somebody harmed without being accused of victim blaming.If I say something irritating or provocative and I get punched in the face for it, I reflect on what I have done. I know that this threat exists in the world I live in and I try to be as polite and courteous as possible.