Comments on: >Scary Man-sters and Super Creeps

By: Tec

Tec — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 03:00:12 +0000

>@OPInteresting, it reminds me of Gavin DeBecker's book, "The Gift of Fear". He's a security specialist and the book is all about how to learn to trust your intuition/guts and notice when you're being targeted for a violent crime.One example he gave was of a man who kept bowling over the women's wants by not accepting "no", like pushing the girl to have a drink if she doesn't want to, as pre-incident indicators (PINs)."PINs*Forced Teaming. This is when a person tries to pretend that he has something in common with a person and that they are in the same predicament when that isn't really true. *Charm and Niceness. This is being polite and friendly to a person in order to manipulate him or her. *Too many details. If a person is lying they will add excessive details to make themselves sound more credible. *Typecasting. An insult to get a person who would otherwise ignore one to talk to one. *Loan Sharking. Giving unsolicited help and expecting favors in return. *The Unsolicited Promise. A promise to leave someone alone when none was asked for, this usually means they won't leave the person alone. *Discounting the Word “No”. Refusing to accept rejection. "

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:10:24 +0000

>The comments under the MRM articles are often more interesting than the articles themselves. A lot of the articles on the MRM sites are just junk, but the comments, they show us the character of the MRM members.

By: Clarisse Thorn

Clarisse Thorn — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:48:08 +0000

>For the record, I just gritted my teeth and read the AlterNet comments (I'm thinking of writing a followup, so I had to) and I was pleasantly surprised by how many of them didn't suck.

By: David Futrelle

David Futrelle — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 06:49:17 +0000

>Anyone who feels like Tosh in the above scenario, whatever the reasons for it, should see a therapist immediately. I'm not saying that as an insult; I'm saying: get to a therapist, get to a doctor, get to a support group, get help, because you don't have to feel that way, at least not forever. I've been in a state like that before. At the time, it seemed like it was because of a woman. But it really wasn't. It was depression; it was a host of other issues that I was projecting onto my situation with the woman. This particular womans' rejection triggered it all, but didn't cause it. We all have pain; we all have issues, but we're not going to solve them by projecting them onto the opposite sex, whether that's, say, a particular woman, or all "western women," or whatever.

By: Clarisse Thorn

Clarisse Thorn — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 00:37:25 +0000

>@cat — If all we're talking about is rejection (and frankly, I do think that frequently the "men's sexuality debate" does get boiled down to the pain of rejection), then I do agree with you. I mean, shit, I've been rejected painfully too. Men don't have a monopoly on it. And I don't see rejection as the heart of the problems with stereotypes of toxic male sexuality.That's the thing, though, is that I don't think we're just talking about rejection. We're talking about men who have legitimate internalized sexual anxiety and fear, which comes up whether they've been rejected or not, whether they're attacking someone or not.

By: cat

cat — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 00:31:46 +0000

>"Can't imagine the time when this isn't everything. Pain so constant, like my stomach's full of rats. Feels like this is all I am now. There isn't an inch of me that doesn't hurt." Your girlfriend got turned into a cyborg and died, then you almost got fed to an alien after a period of being kept in a freezer full of human body parts, your father broke your arm in one of the beatings during your childhood because you weren't butch enough, and now you are feeling attracted to a man and risking gay bashing (similar to the heaps of shit from the father) while feeling as if you are betraying your dead lover? Okay, then go ahead and feel in deep pain. You got turned down when you asked someone to date or have sex with you? Get the fuck over it. The legitimate level of stress from watching a loved one die a horrible death or almost being murdered is in no way equivalent to the level of stress warranted from "No, I am not interested". Not all anger and feelings of injustice are equal, there are these things called reality and proportionality. Is rejection fun? No. Does it warrant a killing rage and threats of violence? Hell no. If a person can't handle being refused a date without homocidal urges, they need to get some counciling and stay the fuck away from the rest of us for our safety. Don't go on a shooting spree because the bakery ran out of your favorite muffins either.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 23:45:54 +0000

>I see so many guys get so wound up in their heads about asking a girl out, literally tormenting themselves with fear of rejection, fear of looking like a fool, and often this fear leads them to behave in a way a girl finds confusing or alarming. I hate it when I see my guys friends feeling like this. And this feeling comes from unfair expectations set in place by the patriarchy. Ideas about how men act with women and are treated by women. I, as a woman, WANT men to ask me out. I WANT to ask out men. If I reject a man, I want him to understand that I'm not passing judgment about him as a human being, I'm expressing a simple preference. And I want him to know, when I ask HIM out, I'm also expressing a simple preference. No pressure, no rumors, no angst, just a simple question. I hate the games girls and guys play. They're stupid and designed to make men and women fucking hate each other for creating so much misery.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:59:04 +0000

>Commenting on the "jackwripper" comment mentioned in the original post:"Men learn not to be very picky, maybe women need to learn not to be picky too."Historically, women have had to be the picky ones, as it is women, not men, that must bear the potential consequences of the sexual relations that result from the dating game. Not saying that EVERY date turns into a sexual relationship, but that dating has been, by and large, the search for a potential mate and sexual union with that mate. A man could walk away from the sexual union that he had with any woman and not have the tell-tale signs that had him hidden away, in shame, in the home or in a home with other men who were in like circumstances. With the advent of various new methods of birth control that aren't wholly dependent upon the woman not having sexual intercourse with a man, the above-mentioned potential consequences may be lessened to a greater degree, but the sexual double standard still exists. As was stated in another thread here, and I'm paraphrasing, "men don't want sexually experienced women for wives", whereas the same is not imposed upon men. I'm not judging the rightness or wrongness of this double standard, just that a man's pickiness will result in women being picky as well, and maybe even more picky than a man, as it is she who is slut-shamed, not him. Just as women need to understand that women's fairly recent sexual freedoms might affect a women's marriageability, men need to understand that their marriage standards might affect the amount that they are rejected, even in light of women's sexual freedoms.That's what gets me about some of the more 'militant' MRAs, sometimes they are the 'victims' of their own standards (or double standards), and yet want women to "fix this" while denying their own complicity in the problem. The only women they seem to want to listen to are ones that are sycophantic and don't try to press them to be introspective. I read one MRA who advocates getting rid of women's being able to choose by herding all females into "rape camps", where then ALL men could have access to ALL women, because that is where he thinks the problem lies, with women being able to choose at all. The problem certainly doesn't lie with men's standards affecting women's choosiness."It is very strange how a female "3" can reject the advances of a male "7" because she is convinced she is a "9" and expects a male "10"."Or, perhaps, knowing that she is a "3", she is wary of why a "7" is approaching her, as she knows she is a "3" and expects maybe only a "4". Does he, as a "7", know that a "10" might possibly reject him, but figures that a "3" has no right to reject him? Not saying that that IS the scenario, just that it's another possibility.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 21:24:25 +0000

>Clarisse:That wasn't half bad.Clarence

By: Clarisse Thorn

Clarisse Thorn — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 19:12:55 +0000

>I got out of an extraordinary swimming pool to write this (yes! I love these conversations THAT MUCH) and don't have much time, but I was thinking about violence and statements of causality etc., and I wanted to ask you guys what you think of this phrasing:For men who legitimately want to talk about feelings of violence, or fears that society will become more violent if there's no open-minded way to talk about male sexuality, it seems to me that the best way to put it is this: "It makes me feel violent when I feel like male sexuality is being ignored, condescended to, or discounted." Other phrasings may be interpreted as a threat, which is understandable given the history of male violence against women and the stereotypes of male violence that permeate our culture.